The Crusades.

[Danustouch]

As I've mentioned in a couple of threads in other forums, I have caught a couple of glimpses into the minds of fundamentalist Christians, and their reaction/opinions about the war in afghanistan in the weeks following the Sept 11th attacks. Much of what I've heard (mainly coming from the 700 clubs Pat Robertson and his network, while flipping through the channells), Seems to imply that the Fundamentalist view of this war, is that it is a battle between Christianity, and Islam. Their belief is that the attack on America, is an attack on Christianity (This is extremely absurd to me, since not all Americans are Christians). One point that they have consistently referred back to, is the Crusades of the Middle Ages. The age old battles between Christianity and Islam in Europe, and the Middle East. This is a sight that I found containing information on the crusades, while I was looking into the crusades for my own information, and I thought you might like to read up on it too.

I do NOT believe that this is a war between Christianity and Islam. I don't feel it is a war between America and Islam. I believe it is a battle of Humanity vs. Terrorists. But...the crusades were a very interesting historical time. Giving birth, perhaps, even to the Knights Templar. So I thought you might find this link interesting.

http://militaryhistory.about.com/sitesearch.htm?terms=Crusades&SUName=militaryhistory&TopNode=3042

[flar7]

was that although they used religion as a war(rallying, pep) cry,
it was a war about expansion, the acquisition of land for surplus population and the establishment of trade routes. Trade as in we kill you to take your land to establish our trade routes. It wasnt so much Convert or die as submit and give up the money.

[Danustouch]

I agree, which is why I think the comparison between this war, and the Crusades that the Fundamentalist Christians such as Pat Robertson are making, is rediculous.

[Swanspirit]

Osama Bin Laden is using the same comparison ..... calling it a "Crusade" .. so it is interesting to see whose mentalities are in the
shall we say "less evolved" state......
Love and Light
Swannie

[MistOfTheSea86]

I dont know if Less evolved was the right word. I would say more radical

[UnSolon]

ack :bug:

This is always a hard hard subjet...

Osama Bin Laden is an idiot. The want to kill inoccent civilians is a sick, perverted mentality.

HOWEVER, I do not feel the war in afganistan is justified.

1. At the onset, the Taliban refused to hand over Bin Laden because the USA had not provided ANY evidence to them proving his guilt. This seems resanable to me. I would not expect my government (Canadian) to hand over someone living in this country to the USA (or another country) without PROOF being provided to them first. What self respecting government would. You would not be able to keep the respect of your own civilians, who are the people a governement are to serve FIRST, after doing so.

2. After the bombing campaign started, the Taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden to a NEUTRAL THIRD COUNTRY for trial. This seems like a fairly reasonable response to me, however for the USA, and Bush, who NEEDS to feel justified somehow, this does not work for them.

SO instead the USA continues its war against Afganistan, creating Hundreds of thousands of Refugees, killing soldiers and civilians alike, Destroying the LIVES and any sense of normality which the people in Afganistan my have felt before this all started.

What is terrorism.

TERRORISM n. the systematic use of violence and intimidation to coerce a government or community, esp. into acceding to specific political demands.

Thats from the Oxford English Reference Dictionary...

Osama used terrorism to try and make the USA change its ways...

The USA is using Terrorism to try and make the taliban hand over Bin Laden...

There is NO SUCH THING as good or bad terrorism...
You cannot cleanse blood with blood...

Peace,
UnSolon

p.s. Please dont take this post the wrong way...

[Danustouch]

Thank you for sharing your opinion, UnSolon. The purpose of this thread, however, was not to debate the "justness" of this war. It was to debate whether or not there is a parrallel between this war, and the Medeivil Crusades. There is a Thread in Political Pagans that you might wish to visit, called..."Just War". There, people have debated whether or not any war is justified, including the present war :) I hope you will visit that thread, and post your comments. Welcome to Mystic Wicks :)

[UnSolon]

Thanks for the note Danustouch

[Danustouch]

you are welcome! and again..Welcome to MW.