I have today decided to become a Vegetarian...

[Socharis]

..any vegies here?

[Theres]

yes, lacto-ovo.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Greenman
yes, lacto-ovo.

lacto huh?

[UnSolon]

:thumbsup: Good for you.

Yes I've been a long time Vegetarian... no meat, no fish, no birds, only rarely do I eat eggs (ususally only when they are an ingrediant in something, ie: bread). I still drink milk, and as for honey (hardcore vegans dont eat anything from any creatures work) I still eat that.

A word of warning... DONT CHANGE OVERNIGHT... thats a great way to get sick :sick: . You must take this transition gradually. And you must make sure you continue to get the right nutrients to make up for what you wont be getting from animals products anymore.

I was lucky. My family has not eaten much meat for years. It started when my uncle (a lifelong veggie) lived with us for awhile, so we started cutting back our meat consumption... and it has slowly decreased since than... so when I became a vegetarian it was an easy step. At first I only stopped eating meat, than added chicken and fish to the list.

Remember to get all 4 food groups... Dairy, Grain, Fruit+veg, and PROTEIN (not Meat). The 4th food group is protein not Meat, which is a common misconception. You can get protein from beans, nuts, TOFU (I love tofu...) and almost anything else (just not in large quantities).

Best of luck... and have fun...

Peace

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

Good on ya Socharis! :thumbsup:

[random]

Good luck to you, Socharis.

The only meats I eat are cow and chicken... Heh, heh... Good cartoon... Though, my mother will try to feed my pork, I won't eat it. I just don't like the way the other meats taste. And I havn't eaten fish since I almost drowned when I was like 7,8,9... Some age like that... It was a long time ago, for me at least. But I do fancy corndogs... Yummm... Corndogs....


Christy

[willowfairy]

I changed overnight about 3 months ago and I'm fine. I'm lacto-ovo too (still eat dairy products). Neva felt betta! :D Just search in the Healthy Pagan thing... There's quite a few threads in there that might help. And if you eat a varied diet you get enough protein. :)

[SimplyStrange]

I respect people like you guys who can make such a decision.

I on the other hand, could never give up meat. I'm addicted to the stuff, lol.

Bravo Socharis! Good luck to ya'

[talamh]

May i suggest that you get some information.. either books or online.. about the 22 amino acids needed to produce protein? Your body can manufacture all but eight of the 22.... and except for soy products, no plant has all eight.

So you need to know about complementary amino acids... not difficult. A lot of what we normally eat makes it a natural combination... like.. grains and nuts together give you the eight amino acids... that's peanut butter on wholewheat bread. Basically if you combine a grain with a legume.. you've got it.

And the good news is.. you don't have to eat them at the same meal.. as long as it's within a 24 hour period, it will work.

The main danger in going veggie is that a lot of people simply stop eating meat and don't educate themselves about alternate protein sources.

Investing in a good vegeterian cookbook is a good idea as well.... there are a lot of really yummy new food ideas that most meat eaters never bother to get to. People who have never eaten vegeterian always say.. "but what do you eat??" There are at least as many different non-meat things to eat as there are meat things to eat.

Another happy little fact is that if you don't eat meat or dairy, you are eliminating about 90 per cent of the toxic chemicals that get injected into and fed to animals that get into the food chain. Isn't that a lovely thought? Congratulations! bb talamh

[Theres]

good balance is important (in anything!).
what most people don't understand about animal protein is that much of it is not assimilable once it's been cooked. this includes pasteurised milk. vegetable protein is much more available for use by the body.
as far as the honey thing, there are so many points of view. it depends on the reason for being vegan. is it a moral decision, or based strictly on health? it is said that the only truly karma-less diet is fruitarian. and yet hardcore vegies won't eat fruit. where does one draw the line?

"I'm not a vegetarian because i love animals, but because i hate plants!"

"Vegetarian. Aboriginal word for 'lousy hunter'!"

[Twilight Garden]

Out of curiosity... why the decision to go vegetarian? I went veggie at about age 10 because I didn't like the taste or texture of meat. At this point I can't really digest it. I tried to eat chicken a few years ago and got very ill. I don't miss meat enough to try to go back.

Greenman... I have a t-shirt that says that about the lousy hunters. hee hee.

[UnSolon]

For me, I went vegetarian because of the political/ethical reasons behind it. My reasons for not eating meat have expanded since then, and I'm pretty sure that if I do eat meat, I'll get sick (a common occurence with long time vegetarians).

While people have always (well since cave man days atleast) eaten meat, Homo Sapians, are adapted to eat meat, however North Americans eat 10x more than anyone else in the world. And thats 10x more than they need.

When thousands of people die from starvation every day, why eat meat...
You can produce 10 servings of grain on the land to produce 1 serving of meat...
You can produce 5 times the amount of PROTEIN on the land to produce 1 serving of meat.

Rainforest all over the world (brazil for example) is cut down in huge swaths of destruction, used to graze cattle for a few years, than the land is useless... the nutrients have been washed away, etc. Those cattle are sent as a cash crop to North America...

But anyways...

Yeah... I had one guy ask me recently "How are you alive"...
I used to love me meat... swore I would NEVER give up the stuff.
But I started preaching the benefits of vegetarianism, and eventually I became one...

So yeah :)

Peace...

[MistOfTheSea86]

And good luck


Myself, I eat meat. I look at it all as being the big food chain. The big fish eats the little fish and the little fish eats the shrimp. That and I think meat tastes good.

[mato]

I have been a vegeitarain for 3 years, my health has improved drasticly I no longer crave meat. It wont be all at once (although for me it was 'cold turkey' so to speak) and you can get sick if you do it that way. I decided to go veggie when I saw that my family's diet was 50 percent meat! so I had to do an all or nothing thing. I still eat honey milk and eggs but only if they are included in processed foods, which I am trying to avoid.
Do it smart and you shouldnt have much of a problem. Oh ya you will also have to take your time as your taste buds adjust to the meatless diet, in the begining vegeitarian foods can taste bland.
Happy Foraging! :D

[Socharis]

Originally posted by UnSolon
:thumbsup: Good for you.

Yes I've been a long time Vegetarian... no meat, no fish, no birds, only rarely do I eat eggs (ususally only when they are an ingrediant in something, ie: bread). I still drink milk, and as for honey (hardcore vegans dont eat anything from any creatures work) I still eat that.

A word of warning... DONT CHANGE OVERNIGHT... thats a great way to get sick :sick: . You must take this transition gradually. And you must make sure you continue to get the right nutrients to make up for what you wont be getting from animals products anymore.

I was lucky. My family has not eaten much meat for years. It started when my uncle (a lifelong veggie) lived with us for awhile, so we started cutting back our meat consumption... and it has slowly decreased since than... so when I became a vegetarian it was an easy step. At first I only stopped eating meat, than added chicken and fish to the list.

Remember to get all 4 food groups... Dairy, Grain, Fruit+veg, and PROTEIN (not Meat). The 4th food group is protein not Meat, which is a common misconception. You can get protein from beans, nuts, TOFU (I love tofu...) and almost anything else (just not in large quantities).

Best of luck... and have fun...

Peace

Thank You :thumbsup: all of the pulses contain a high amount of protein. I hav slowly been becoming a veggie so im sorta ready to do it now.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Ball-Bhreac Ròn
Good on ya Socharis! :thumbsup:

Thank You :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by random
Good luck to you, Socharis.

The only meats I eat are cow and chicken... Heh, heh... Good cartoon... Though, my mother will try to feed my pork, I won't eat it. I just don't like the way the other meats taste. And I havn't eaten fish since I almost drowned when I was like 7,8,9... Some age like that... It was a long time ago, for me at least. But I do fancy corndogs... Yummm... Corndogs....


Christy

Thank You :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by willowfairy
I changed overnight about 3 months ago and I'm fine. I'm lacto-ovo too (still eat dairy products). Neva felt betta! :D Just search in the Healthy Pagan thing... There's quite a few threads in there that might help. And if you eat a varied diet you get enough protein. :)

Thank You :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by SimplyStrange
I respect people like you guys who can make such a decision.

I on the other hand, could never give up meat. I'm addicted to the stuff, lol.

Bravo Socharis! Good luck to ya'

Thank You :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by talamh anEiac
May i suggest that you get some information.. either books or online.. about the 22 amino acids needed to produce protein? Your body can manufacture all but eight of the 22.... and except for soy products, no plant has all eight.

So you need to know about complementary amino acids... not difficult. A lot of what we normally eat makes it a natural combination... like.. grains and nuts together give you the eight amino acids... that's peanut butter on wholewheat bread. Basically if you combine a grain with a legume.. you've got it.

And the good news is.. you don't have to eat them at the same meal.. as long as it's within a 24 hour period, it will work.

The main danger in going veggie is that a lot of people simply stop eating meat and don't educate themselves about alternate protein sources.

Investing in a good vegeterian cookbook is a good idea as well.... there are a lot of really yummy new food ideas that most meat eaters never bother to get to. People who have never eaten vegeterian always say.. "but what do you eat??" There are at least as many different non-meat things to eat as there are meat things to eat.

Another happy little fact is that if you don't eat meat or dairy, you are eliminating about 90 per cent of the toxic chemicals that get injected into and fed to animals that get into the food chain. Isn't that a lovely thought? Congratulations! bb talamh

Thank You :thumbsup: that is great info, i have actually found a great website that gives all the info needed, all the stuff you was saying, ill find the address and post it here.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Greenman
good balance is important (in anything!).
what most people don't understand about animal protein is that much of it is not assimilable once it's been cooked. this includes pasteurised milk. vegetable protein is much more available for use by the body.
as far as the honey thing, there are so many points of view. it depends on the reason for being vegan. is it a moral decision, or based strictly on health? it is said that the only truly karma-less diet is fruitarian. and yet hardcore vegies won't eat fruit. where does one draw the line?

"I'm not a vegetarian because i love animals, but because i hate plants!"

"Vegetarian. Aboriginal word for 'lousy hunter'!"

Thank You :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by LunarMist
Out of curiosity... why the decision to go vegetarian? I went veggie at about age 10 because I didn't like the taste or texture of meat. At this point I can't really digest it. I tried to eat chicken a few years ago and got very ill. I don't miss meat enough to try to go back.

Greenman... I have a t-shirt that says that about the lousy hunters. hee hee.

Because I dont like the fact that we kill animals to support our life, its like saying we are superior to animals, which i do not agree with. Also i dont like the fact of eating the decaying flesh of another animal.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by UnSolon
For me, I went vegetarian because of the political/ethical reasons behind it. My reasons for not eating meat have expanded since then, and I'm pretty sure that if I do eat meat, I'll get sick (a common occurence with long time vegetarians).

While people have always (well since cave man days atleast) eaten meat, Homo Sapians, are adapted to eat meat, however North Americans eat 10x more than anyone else in the world. And thats 10x more than they need.

When thousands of people die from starvation every day, why eat meat...
You can produce 10 servings of grain on the land to produce 1 serving of meat...
You can produce 5 times the amount of PROTEIN on the land to produce 1 serving of meat.

Rainforest all over the world (brazil for example) is cut down in huge swaths of destruction, used to graze cattle for a few years, than the land is useless... the nutrients have been washed away, etc. Those cattle are sent as a cash crop to North America...

But anyways...

Yeah... I had one guy ask me recently "How are you alive"...
I used to love me meat... swore I would NEVER give up the stuff.
But I started preaching the benefits of vegetarianism, and eventually I became one...

So yeah :)

Peace...

I agree with you :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86
And good luck


Myself, I eat meat. I look at it all as being the big food chain. The big fish eats the little fish and the little fish eats the shrimp. That and I think meat tastes good.

Thank You :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by mato
I have been a vegeitarain for 3 years, my health has improved drasticly I no longer crave meat. It wont be all at once (although for me it was 'cold turkey' so to speak) and you can get sick if you do it that way. I decided to go veggie when I saw that my family's diet was 50 percent meat! so I had to do an all or nothing thing. I still eat honey milk and eggs but only if they are included in processed foods, which I am trying to avoid.
Do it smart and you shouldnt have much of a problem. Oh ya you will also have to take your time as your taste buds adjust to the meatless diet, in the begining vegeitarian foods can taste bland.
Happy Foraging! :D

Thank You :thumbsup: thats some good info :thumbsup:

[xjsjaglvr]

Well not that I hate to be different but, nature gave me a whole set of teeth specially designed to eat meat. Incisors and canines; cows and other herbiviores don't have them. We were genetically designed to eat damn near anything, we have the teeth and more importantly the enzymes in our digestive tracts to digest meat. Thats why vegans can't eat grass, no enzymes to digest it. As a nature based group of religions you would think most pagans would realize these things. The Gods and Goddesses want us to eat the bounty we are provided. I believe they know what is best. I personnally think that the best thing to have next to a baked potato on my plate is a nice slice of prime rib, preferably rare, but that's just me.
I am Jag
ps, my cholesterol level was 156 at my last physical, so I am way heart healthy. It ain't the food it's the activity level that keeps you healthy folks.

[Starlight]

I'm not a vegetarian but I'm not a big meat eater either! I like it on occasion but not very often!
HAHAHA! There's not term for it but I don't drink carbonated stuff (like soda) The way I see it ...if it can take the rust off of a car what the heck am I drinkin it for?? 8O

Good luck with it Socharis!! I hope it works out for you! :thumbsup:

[talamh]

Eating meat was a lot less risky back when animals had natural lives instead of being raised in factories and fed hormones and antibiotics.

Do you know where mad cow disease came from? It was an accepted practice to feed "unusable" bits from dead animals (the bits not even acceptable for hot dogs) to other animals.. even though the animals being fed were totally vegeterian.

But in Britain there was a disease that affected many of the sheep in which they got diseased brain tissue.. so the sheep couldn't be used for human consumption. So to save money, they ground up the sheep, diseased brains and all, and fed it to cows.

So.. hormones, antibiotics and diseased animal parts.... oh yummy!

And i haven't even given a brief description of the unsanitary and inhumane conditions in your average slaughter house. Eeeewwwww. i do hope you enjoy your next steak. Shudder. bb talamh

[Xois]

Congrats on your choice...its not easy in our society...but you get used to how and what to buy, "hidden" animal products like Tallow or lard and it will get easier

I was vegan for 5 years...

Have fun

the last thing I cut from my diet when I went vegan was cheese and my energy level went through the roof!

:D

Xois

[UnSolon]

lol... I dont really have a problem with people eating meat. Its natural...

However those canine and incisor teeth you were talking about are vastigle(sp?) teeth. We dont use them for what they are for (Biteing and TEARING THE MEAT APART) we havent for centuries... someone invented the knife. The appendixe (also vastigle[sp?]) which produces the enzymes needed to digest grass and other such plants. However it doesent really do its job anymore.

As I was saying... I dont have a problem with people eating meat WHEN THEY KNOW WHERE ITS COMING FROM! People dont buy cow, they buy a "Double Bacon Cheese Burger", and too them its just meat shapped like a patty. How often do most people go out and slaughter their own cows??? Not very often... Most people dont even catch their own fish, or gut their own fish, or pluck their own chickens... MOST PEOPLE NEVER WILL. I would not have a problem if people actually realized where their meat comes from... but most people just get it in a pre-packaged steralized form...

But yeah... I think I'll eat meat someday again... but I'll catch it myself... or something like that. I'll go down to the docks... catch myself a salmon, and cook it over a fire... umm umm good.

Peace...

[Kadynas]

I'm with StarLight...I'm not a full vegetarian or anything, but most of the time I avoid meat. I'll eat Thanksgiving turkey, the occasional cheeseburger, and hamburger helper, but that's about it. I'm pretty much a pasta & salad addict! :lol: I do eat dairy products too...I think I would even if I decided to cut out meat.

Part of me would like to go vegetarian, just because I love animals so much. But the other part of me thinks, well the poor thing got killed anyways; let's not let it be in vain. Kinda like how native americans thank the animal's spirit for giving them food and such...

[Starlight]

After reading the new stuff on this thread I got kinda angry but I'm not gonna state my full opinion cause it'll only start a big brawl..But I will say that I don't agree with some of the posts making out people who eat meat to be monsters who don't care about animals! I happen to love animals!
A plant is a living thing aswell! Killing to sustain one's self can't be avoided but it can be within reason!

This is just me!

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Starlight
I'm not a vegetarian but I'm not a big meat eater either! I like it on occasion but not very often!
HAHAHA! There's not term for it but I don't drink carbonated stuff (like soda) The way I see it ...if it can take the rust off of a car what the heck am I drinkin it for?? 8O

Good luck with it Socharis!! I hope it works out for you! :thumbsup:

Thank you :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by talamh anEiac
Eating meat was a lot less risky back when animals had natural lives instead of being raised in factories and fed hormones and antibiotics.

Do you know where mad cow disease came from? It was an accepted practice to feed "unusable" bits from dead animals (the bits not even acceptable for hot dogs) to other animals.. even though the animals being fed were totally vegeterian.

But in Britain there was a disease that affected many of the sheep in which they got diseased brain tissue.. so the sheep couldn't be used for human consumption. So to save money, they ground up the sheep, diseased brains and all, and fed it to cows.

So.. hormones, antibiotics and diseased animal parts.... oh yummy!

And i haven't even given a brief description of the unsanitary and inhumane conditions in your average slaughter house. Eeeewwwww. i do hope you enjoy your next steak. Shudder. bb talamh

I agree, and living in britain I am more risk from eating meat, they also pack it full of preservative to make it last longer on the shelf, theses cant be good for us.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Xois
Congrats on your choice...its not easy in our society...but you get used to how and what to buy, "hidden" animal products like Tallow or lard and it will get easier

I was vegan for 5 years...

Have fun

the last thing I cut from my diet when I went vegan was cheese and my energy level went through the roof!

:D

Xois


Thank you :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by UnSolon
lol... I dont really have a problem with people eating meat. Its natural...

However those canine and incisor teeth you were talking about are vastigle(sp?) teeth. We dont use them for what they are for (Biteing and TEARING THE MEAT APART) we havent for centuries... someone invented the knife. The appendixe (also vastigle[sp?]) which produces the enzymes needed to digest grass and other such plants. However it doesent really do its job anymore.

As I was saying... I dont have a problem with people eating meat WHEN THEY KNOW WHERE ITS COMING FROM! People dont buy cow, they buy a "Double Bacon Cheese Burger", and too them its just meat shapped like a patty. How often do most people go out and slaughter their own cows??? Not very often... Most people dont even catch their own fish, or gut their own fish, or pluck their own chickens... MOST PEOPLE NEVER WILL. I would not have a problem if people actually realized where their meat comes from... but most people just get it in a pre-packaged steralized form...

But yeah... I think I'll eat meat someday again... but I'll catch it myself... or something like that. I'll go down to the docks... catch myself a salmon, and cook it over a fire... umm umm good.

Peace...

I agree with you that ppl dont realise where there meat comes from, perhaps they should be made aware from a young age.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Starlight
After reading the new stuff on this thread I got kinda angry but I'm not gonna state my full opinion cause it'll only start a big brawl..But I will say that I don't agree with some of the posts making out people who eat meat to be monsters who don't care about animals! I happen to love animals!
A plant is a living thing aswell! Killing to sustain one's self can't be avoided but it can be within reason!

This is just me!

we should make anyone feel this way guys so lets not be insensitive.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Kadynas
I'm with StarLight...I'm not a full vegetarian or anything, but most of the time I avoid meat. I'll eat Thanksgiving turkey, the occasional cheeseburger, and hamburger helper, but that's about it. I'm pretty much a pasta & salad addict! :lol: I do eat dairy products too...I think I would even if I decided to cut out meat.

Part of me would like to go vegetarian, just because I love animals so much. But the other part of me thinks, well the poor thing got killed anyways; let's not let it be in vain. Kinda like how native americans thank the animal's spirit for giving them food and such...

if the market isnt there for the meat though then the ammount being killed will lower.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by xjsjaglvr
Well not that I hate to be different but, nature gave me a whole set of teeth specially designed to eat meat. Incisors and canines; cows and other herbiviores don't have them. We were genetically designed to eat damn near anything, we have the teeth and more importantly the enzymes in our digestive tracts to digest meat. Thats why vegans can't eat grass, no enzymes to digest it. As a nature based group of religions you would think most pagans would realize these things. The Gods and Goddesses want us to eat the bounty we are provided. I believe they know what is best. I personnally think that the best thing to have next to a baked potato on my plate is a nice slice of prime rib, preferably rare, but that's just me.
I am Jag
ps, my cholesterol level was 156 at my last physical, so I am way heart healthy. It ain't the food it's the activity level that keeps you healthy folks.

Actually they arnt for eating meat, they are there to cut and slice things that we eat for example fruit, apples pears etc. we could not eat these easily without cutting teeth.

[Starlight]

Originally posted by Socharis


we shouldn't make anyone feel this way guys so lets not be insensitive.

Thank you! That's very considerate! :thumbsup:

[willowfairy]

You can be whatever you want to. You shouldn't force someone to be a vegetarian. Just like religions. And you shouldn't bash what someone believes, or doesn't believe.

[UnSolon]

Nicely said WillowFairy.

I've also experienced MANY times when I've been bashed, encouraged, or whatever to eat meat again. Its not easy to maintain your convictions when people are berating you from all sides.

[Starlight]

OMG............ :wah: :wah::wah: :wah::wah: :wah:
I'm.........really........upset.....right now!! :wah: I was forced to watch this horrible documentary based on the book "The Sea Of Slaughter" by Farly Mowat in my HGS class! :wah: It absolutly broke my heart to see such things........I cried through half of the movie...the other half I was just trying not to throw up! :wah: All those poor animals......It wasn't bad enough that it was gross but it was graphic as well.....very very graphic! :wah: On top of that the teacher that I have for that class is sooooooo ignorant! He said the he didn't agree with what the people were doing but when the movie started to talk about mass game hunting he tried to defend it....just because he does it!! Grrrrrrrrrrr! What an idiot!!! :flamer: :wah:
And if that wasn't bad enough...some of the stupid idiot kids in my class started laughing at some of the parts in the movie!!! I said "Yeah..it's real funny to see a whale bleed to death you jerks!" And they said " It's only a whale..you wouldn't care if it was a cow!" UGH!!! I couldn't even answer them I was soooooo mad!!!

:wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah:

[UnSolon]

I feel for you...

People can be heartless and cruel. Often only seeing what they want to see. Not caring about pain and suffering which does not affect them personally.

Peace

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Starlight


Thank you! That's very considerate! :thumbsup:

Its just the right way to treat ppl

[Socharis]

Originally posted by willowfairy
You can be whatever you want to. You shouldn't force someone to be a vegetarian. Just like religions. And you shouldn't bash what someone believes, or doesn't believe.

I agree :thumbsup:

[Socharis]

Originally posted by UnSolon
Nicely said WillowFairy.

I've also experienced MANY times when I've been bashed, encouraged, or whatever to eat meat again. Its not easy to maintain your convictions when people are berating you from all sides.

We can look to our faith for strength I find.

[Socharis]

Originally posted by Starlight
OMG............ :wah: :wah::wah: :wah::wah: :wah:
I'm.........really........upset.....right now!! :wah: I was forced to watch this horrible documentary based on the book "The Sea Of Slaughter" by Farly Mowat in my HGS class! :wah: It absolutly broke my heart to see such things........I cried through half of the movie...the other half I was just trying not to throw up! :wah: All those poor animals......It wasn't bad enough that it was gross but it was graphic as well.....very very graphic! :wah: On top of that the teacher that I have for that class is sooooooo ignorant! He said the he didn't agree with what the people were doing but when the movie started to talk about mass game hunting he tried to defend it....just because he does it!! Grrrrrrrrrrr! What an idiot!!! :flamer: :wah:
And if that wasn't bad enough...some of the stupid idiot kids in my class started laughing at some of the parts in the movie!!! I said "Yeah..it's real funny to see a whale bleed to death you jerks!" And they said " It's only a whale..you wouldn't care if it was a cow!" UGH!!! I couldn't even answer them I was soooooo mad!!!

:wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah::wah: :wah: :wah: :wah:

aww thats such a terrible thing to hear, some ppl asre so insensitive.

[Twilight Garden]

Originally posted by willowfairy
You can be whatever you want to. You shouldn't force someone to be a vegetarian. Just like religions. And you shouldn't bash what someone believes, or doesn't believe. So True. As I said early in this thread, I don't eat meat. I actually had a vegetarian try to start an argument with me because my reason for not eating meat was not good enough for him. Some people...:rolleyes:

[Gender Nectar]

Originally posted by Starlight
After reading the new stuff on this thread I got kinda angry but I'm not gonna state my full opinion cause it'll only start a big brawl..But I will say that I don't agree with some of the posts making out people who eat meat to be monsters who don't care about animals! I happen to love animals!
A plant is a living thing aswell! Killing to sustain one's self can't be avoided but it can be within reason!

This is just me!

Hmm...that's funny. Not one post did I see someone bashing meat eaters, or make them out to be monsters.
Yeah, plants are living. Do they have nearly the same functions as animals? No.

On the other hand, some people imply that refusing to eat meat goes against nature. Let's talk about going against nature as you step into a slaughter house. I wonder how the Goddess feels about that.

[Starlight]

Originally posted by Gender Nectar


Hmm...that's funny. Not one post did I see someone bashing meat eaters, or make them out to be monsters.
Yeah, plants are living. Do they have nearly the same functions as animals? No.

On the other hand, some people imply that refusing to eat meat goes against nature. Let's talk about going against nature as you step into a slaughter house. I wonder how the Goddess feels about that.

I was just refering to the fact that it seems a lot of people think all meat comes from the slaughter house! Which is totally not true! My family lives in a farming country so we know where our meat comes from and it's far from a slaughter house! Now I know not everybody lives in a place like that but I know lots of people who do. I was just angry at the fact that alot of the vegetarian threads implied that all meat comes from some prossessing plant!

And I know that plants function different. But how different..? Not that much. It eats, breaths,grows,reproduces. Does it have to bleed before it's killing?

This is just my opinion! Obviously we don't share the same . You may think I'm ignorant or a bit*h but like I said this is only my opinion and nothing more.

[Gender Nectar]

Well, you are obviously in the minority, so it's not unusual for people to leave you out of the equation. Hopefully your animals are killed somewhat humanely, and I commend your family of that even though it still makes me uncomfortable.

As for plants, they lack a nervous system so therefore they can't feel pain. Animals, of course have this. So yes, their variation differs greatly.

[Starlight]

The animals are killed quite painlessly.
Plant or animal they are and should be treated with respect and be thanked for their sacrifice, despite their differences. I am glad to see we agree eye to eye on that at least.

[UnSolon]

Starlight - If you felt I was one of those people, I apologize. I too am very happy and satisfied with the way you get your meat. And your right, in this day of age, where 50% of people in these countries live in large cities it is not uncommon for people to have know clue as to how they get all manner of commodities, from the food they eat to the toilet paper they use. It just magically appears on the shelves at the local store... For those of us who have lived, or live, in places where those basic resources are harvested, (IE: farms, forests, the sea, etc.) you tend to sometimes get a greater understanding about the entire cycle of human endevors.

But from my knowledge of the big slaughter houses (sorry to bring this up again) most animals are not killed 'humanly', as you could call it. I am sure some do. There is the technology to 'painlessly' knock out an animal when it is killed. However, this technology costs about $0.12 more than the current method. Processors have used the excuse of cost efficiancy to discount the other method. But hey. When a cow is sent down the line every 14 seconds, who has time to count.

Peace

[flar7]

maybe not a central nervous system as we know it but they are more than the sum of their parts. Some reach for the light and close at night. Others eat meat, actually they all do one way or the other.

And pain? How can anyone know what a plant feels? or if it feels the same as humans or animals.

I live in the country, but buy my meat at the grocery store, and from what I've seen of farming and the stuff they spray on plants including decaying protein(uck!) They use dead animals for fertilizer, so they are still killing animals for you to eat. Your just eating the regrown parts. You take your chances either way.

Man evolved into a predator (meat eater) because it was the most efficient way for him to survive and stay at the apex of the food chain.

[UnSolon]

Flar, I would like to debate your assurtion that humans "evolved as a predator".

It is now thought by many researchers that the first humans were more akin to hunter-scavangers rather than the mighty mammoth hunters which we somtimes conjour images of. Perhaps it is true that they killed an occasional mammoth or large mammal, however on the most part they would usually scavange from the carcass of an already dead animal. Excavation sites are scattered with the bones of small-fur bearing animals, such as bunnies, foxes, and squirrles. So yes we evolved to eat meat, but were really not that macho.

Peace...

[flar7]

especially since we have the eyes of a predator. Didnt say we went after big prey, we went after the easy stuff first and as skill developed larger prey for our larger groups. Earliest remains of frozen "cave man" show hunting implements. We were hunter gatherers until we learned to farm.

And the cutting teeth developed for the consumption of meat, thats what they're teaching in college anyways. They also feel that the canines will disappear since we no longer use them like we used too.

What I meant is their is no way to eat vegetables without the sacrifice of animals unless they grow without soil, fertilzer,and water. Animal life is everywhere and in everything. And the fact that animals are used as fertilizer is gross.

[Starlight]

Originally posted by UnSolon
Starlight - If you felt I was one of those people, I apologize. I too am very happy and satisfied with the way you get your meat. And your right, in this day of age, where 50% of people in these countries live in large cities it is not uncommon for people to have know clue as to how they get all manner of commodities, from the food they eat to the toilet paper they use. It just magically appears on the shelves at the local store... For those of us who have lived, or live, in places where those basic resources are harvested, (IE: farms, forests, the sea, etc.) you tend to sometimes get a greater understanding about the entire cycle of human endevors.
Peace

Thank you......this is the point I have been trying to get across! Goddess bless you!!

And on the plant stuff.. flar....I'm so glad to see I'm not alone on that theory.

I'm so relieved!! I thought I was wrong and ticking people off by saying the things I did!
It appears that vegetarianism is a much more debated subject then I realized. I'm sorry for anyone else I offended in my opinons but as I've said before that's just what they are, opinions and nothing more.

Love and Light
Star

[willowfairy]

I enjoy reading others opinions on here. That way I get to see everything in every possible way. If I didn't, I might get a little close minded on the subject.

[Gender Nectar]

Originally posted by flar7
Some reach for the light and close at night. Others eat meat, actually they all do one way or the other

What's your point? All plant responses are the effect of chemical reactions.


And pain? How can anyone know what a plant feels? or if it feels the same as humans or animals.

Then I suppose you disagree with Starlight in her statement that the animals she eats don't feel any pain. Nerves are essential for pain. http://www.wadi.org.uk/article_43.htm


I live in the country, but buy my meat at the grocery store, and from what I've seen of farming and the stuff they spray on plants including decaying protein(uck!) They use dead animals for fertilizer, so they are still killing animals for you to eat. Your just eating the regrown parts. You take your chances either way.

Not if you eat organic.

[Starlight]

Originally posted by Gender Nectar



Then I suppose you disagree with Starlight in her statement that the animals she eats don't feel any pain. Nerves are essential for pain. http://www.wadi.org.uk/article_43.htm
[/B]

OMG...I never said that at all!!!! What I said is that the animals were killed quite painlessly........ in other words there's still pain just not alot of it! Please don't put words like that in my mouth.
I may have a different opinion than you on this topic but that's why it's a free country. I refuse to continue this debate with you.

[Sora]

I'm a veggie, have been for a little while now and it still drives my parents nuts. They ask if I eat chicken, they nearly make me eat it. I just ask them if chickens grow in gardens... This was a very interesting thread to read. I can see alll your views, but I agree with only some of them. Today, for instance, I had a veggie burger and people at school flamed me for putting cheese on it. I't my life, okay? Just because my feelings incline me to leave meat out of my diet, doesn't mean I've signed a blood contract.

Humans, I believe, wheren't supposed to eat meat. Look at the way we are built. Name a carnavore with flimsy nails instead of claws, or one with them flat teeth (I'm no densist. Leave my ignorance alone.). In my opinion, if we where natural carnavores we'd see a cow and have that urge to go chomp on its leg.

[flar7]

unless you grow it yourself, its hard to do. Just cause some company says "all are stuff is grown organically" dont make it so.

And you cant raise enough organically grown food to effectively feed everyone. So some gotta make do with the chemical variety.

Nerves are required for pain from a humans view, perhaps the earth feels differently. She made us to be this way, we evolved this way, and if she didnt want us too she would stop it. She is however encouraging us to cutback. Cancer, diseases and such.
Encouragement to eat less meat, eat healthy and be active. Like the hunter gatherers of old.

To each his own. But we did evolve this way, maybe we will evolve away from meat but it will require a technological development or an act from mother earth. Except maybe tech shouldnt count as an evolve unless its a mental or spiritual quest.

[Starlight]

Excellent points flar! :thumbsup:

[Gender Nectar]

Originally posted by Starlight


OMG...I never said that at all!!!! What I said is that the animals were killed quite painlessly........ in other words there's still pain just not alot of it! Please don't put words like that in my mouth.
I may have a different opinion than you on this topic but that's why it's a free country. I refuse to continue this debate with you.

So I misquoted you. Please, stone me. Someone needs to calm down.

[UnSolon]

Flar - I would like to disagree with you on the point that it is impossible to grow enough 'organic' food to feed everyone.

You stated that you belive that we simply cannot grow enough food for everyone to eat if it was all organic. I say, it is possible, however, we have become so dependant on chemical pesticides that we have forgotten how to.

CASE IN POINT: Cuba. When Cuba was the Soviet Unions pet, it was, just like most countries, highly dependant on pesticides and chemicals. However, once the soviet union collapsed, and with the Embargo against it impossed by the United States, getting affordable chemicals was next to impossible, so it was forced to essencially, go 'Organic'. When this started, yes, it did have some problems. Now, many years later, almost ALL of its food is produced organically (now yes, they still use one or two pesticides which they make them selves I'm sure, but compared to the almost continual bombardment of week killers, pest killers, growth enhancers, fertalizers, etc. that we use, Cuba uses practically nothing). This is a small country with a large population. It has been able to feed its entire population, and manages to have an export.

Infact this news story ranks as one of the most 'ignored' stories of 2000. IE: one of the most 'self-censored' news stories from the media outlets.

Peace,
UnSolon

[flar7]

then maybe Cuba should quit buying a lot of their food from outside their country. Cause they purchase alot, most grain comes from us. Kinda funny how the U.S. can chastise a country, cut them off from aid and such, but still allow farmers to sell (at high prices) to them.
Most of our grain around here(bread basket of america) goes out to other countries because they cant feed themselves.

[flar7]

Some of the grain takes the long way to Cuba, we sell to Soviets and they resale to Cuba. Thats were the high price comes from.
Soviets need capital more than bread I guess?

[UnSolon]

How often do you eat something that was grown OUTSIDE of your country. Probably fairly often. Probably half the meat you eat was raised somewhere else too.

The fact is, especially here in North America, we love those exotic foods. So much so, that we dont even consider them exotic anymore. Perhaps its different down in the states, because it is a warmer climate, so I will give Canada as an example, yes, in one or two places in canada it is possible to grow a few oranges for a few months each year, but essentially every orange we eat comes from somewhere else. All those bannanas, yep... you guessed it, imported, all those instant foods, many of them are made in other countries, and shipped in.

My point is, that just because a country imports food does not negate what they produce. So Cuba exports food, and imports food, your point being? I guess some people there like their hamburgers too.

[UnSolon]

BTW - your reference to Russia as, and I quote, 'Soviets' is false. The soviet period in Russia is over, gone, caput. Remember the breakup of the USSR in 91-92. Yep, the great spectre of communism in that eastern land is essentially gone.

Perhaps it keeps a few remenents of that ideology, but Russia is capitalist now, embraceing the luxuries and western investment as their own. *sigh

Peace

[Lunamoth]

Originally posted by talamh anEiac
So you need to know about complementary amino acids... not difficult. A lot of what we normally eat makes it a natural combination... like.. grains and nuts together give you the eight amino acids... that's peanut butter on wholewheat bread. Basically if you combine a grain with a legume.. you've got it.

And the good news is.. you don't have to eat them at the same meal.. as long as it's within a 24 hour period, it will work.

Great advice and I didn't even know about that 24 hour period part. I'm a lacto-ovo-peschi (sp?) which basically means I don't eat chicken, beef or pork or any kind of game meats (like vennison, etc). But I'll eat fish. It's packed with Omega 3's or something like that. As a recovering cancer chick, I need my Omegas. I stopped eating "red" meats when I was a teen because of some heart issues. The hardest part (gods I'm so embarrassed to admit this) was giving up ring balogna. Isn't that horrible? :lol: But yes, maybe some could do it overnight, but I did not. But I think, (IMO) as long as you educate yourself thoroughly, you'll be just fine.

Blessings and Good Health!
Lunamoth

[Lunamoth]

Originally posted by flar7
unless you grow it yourself, its hard to do. Just cause some company says "all are stuff is grown organically" dont make it so.


Just one little niggling point I wanted to make - at least here in Cali, if it isn't organic, it *can't* say it is organic. That's the law. And the food *is* tested for chemicals. It's unfortunate, but the grower needs to pay a steep fee to have his crops tested so that it can be sold as organic and even if some pesticides, say from a neighboring farm, get onto his crops, he can't sell it as organic. And they do check. I'd like to quote the article I read in Sierra magazine, but it's not in front of me. Be perfectly happy to site the reference if needed though (hoping I can find it again). :)

Lunamoth

[flar7]

because that and russians were the names I grew up with. Wasnt meant as deragatory, was meant to show with the statement that they are capitalist now, and that they import and export food like everyone else.

Here in the U.S. we have a temporary ban on certain meats from Europe. But we do import a lot of fruit, mainly from our southern neighborhood.

And the majority of meat that I eat comes from Mr. Reasors ranch, and the chicken is either hudson farms(Ark.) or this new branch that uses Air cooling instead of water for the chicken.(cutting down on samanela(sp?)

I will have to try to make this my last post about this, so that everyone else can try to get back to the topic. I shouldnt have wandered this far, perhaps another thread would better discuss this.

And Gender Nectar, if you cant get to your post, then I will have to edit it as a mod. And I dont want too.

thanx:)

[Starlight]

Ugh! I've had enough of this!! I'm leaving this thread like a bat outta H*ll! Way to heated for my liking!!

[UnSolon]

:) lets just send round the peace pipe, and say let bygones be bygones.

Peace

[flar7]

I cant be a vegematarion, is cause I cant spell it. :boing: Peace







in the words of Josey Wales, "I reckon so..."

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwww, flar, you're so cute! :p

[flar7]

*flar blushes* :smash:

[Starlight]

HEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYY Twink!!!!!!!!

And I agree flar's a sweetie!! ;)

:smash:<< Flar I see you've adopted him aswell! :lol:

[flar7]

the more you holler at him, poke at him, tell him to leave, the more determined he gets! :smash:

He is tearin up my keyboard, my quija board, and my surf board.
We do a lot of surfin in Oklahoma! LOL

ooooooooooh, tides up!! Gotta go surf!

here he is again, for his encore performance! :smash:

[amethystelk]

I am a veggie,

[goddess]

being a vegie is good.you know atleast what you are eating.and when you grow it yourself its better,you than know its freash.

[Starlight]

Originally posted by flar7
the more you holler at him, poke at him, tell him to leave, the more determined he gets! :smash:

He is tearin up my keyboard, my quija board, and my surf board.
We do a lot of surfin in Oklahoma! LOL

ooooooooooh, tides up!! Gotta go surf!



Suuuuure ya do flar!! Sure!

But why would you want him to go away?? Look at him he's way cuter than Ricky or the door mouse!! And they don't have hammer obsessions!! LOL

And what the heck is a quija board?? LOL I have a Ouija board but not quija board! Good heavens flar is this your invention?? It's simply ingenious!! :lol:

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

:rotfl:


:smash:

[Starlight]

TWINK!!!!!!!!!! Hey gal! Wassap??

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

hehehe :p

just chillin, havin a bud....

[Starlight]

Dat's coo man! I's still at stupid school! But I get to go home in about 10 min! :thumbsup:

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

really? it's 7:30 over here, I've been home for hooooooours ;)

[Psyche Ague]

I'm a vegetarian (newly so) and I found that it was pretty easy making the transition. I just cut most meat out of my diet and stuck with it. Chicken was really hard to stop eating, though, mostly out of habit.

I wanted to go veggie healthfully, so I bought a really helpful book, "Vegetarianism for Dummies." Dang, I love those books! It contains a lot of useful information on vitamins and other essentials that you need. It's great. :)

[flar7]

its ouija board. heheh or bored.

but for us spiritual travelers from Hissom(sp?)-(local institute for the reality challenged) the quija board is the ancient piece of sacred wood that the vikings brought over and gave to the indians so that they could whack the pilgrims over the head when they would come. The board was lost, so the pilgrims got to stay.

My ancestor, J.P. Loon, a reknowned psychic, found the board and discovered its true powers.

You could cut chicken on it, play dice, play jacks, build puzzles, and talk with the dead. Being wise as well as old he promptly used it to build a cut up chicken puzzle. Then tried to talk to it.
The dead chicken that is, no one is dumb enough to talk to a board.

The board was handed down through the family and developed a wonderful tendency to enlighten its owner. None of my ancestors from that point on ever had to finish school again.

When I recieved the board, I said, "What does this do?" My grandfather told me what it was and I said, "dont ya mean ouija board?" and he promptly hit me over the head with the quija board. Thus necessatating my trip to the land of the funny people.

So, mock not the power of the quija board, for it is all powerful!

[Starlight]

:rotfl: :rotfl: OMG flar I believe you when you say you were hit on the head in the past! LOL!! My Lord do you just stay up all nite to think of tis stuff or does it just come naturally?? :lol: If it's naturally You are my ultimate Hero! I bow to you! :lol:

[Starlight]

Originally posted by Ball-Bhreac Ròn
really? it's 7:30 over here, I've been home for hooooooours ;)

Wow!! So ya mean Imaginary Fluff Land is 4 hours and 15 minutes ahead of Nova Scotia?? :lol: They have School there?? :lol:

[flar7]

the muffin man!

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

Originally posted by Starlight


Wow!! So ya mean Imaginary Fluff Land is 4 hours and 15 minutes ahead of Nova Scotia?? :lol: They have School there?? :lol:

yeek, you worked that out??

Of cooooourse imaginary fluff land has school, it's where everyone goes to receive their twinkly pink wings and racoon and mouse handling guide! :D I :heartthro imaginary fluff land.....:T

[Starlight]

*sniff sniff* I wanna live in Imaginary Fluff land!!!!!!!!! :wah: My land sux!!! Is there any cute guys up there?? Cause there isn't down here! :lol:

[Starlight]

Originally posted by Ball-Bhreac Ròn


yeek, you worked that out??


Wasn't hard...the exact posting times are at the bottom of your post! Mine said 3:15 and you said at that time it was 7:30! HeeHee! :smash: :T

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

oh cool, I so never saw that before! ;) :nyah: Star, I am officially inviting you into Imaginary Fluff Land, there are as many cute guys (and gals) as you want there to be.........

.......*dances over a hill into the sunset*



oh, PS, there's lots of marmite here too :D

[Starlight]

Alright! I'm soooooooooo there!!!! HeeHee! :lol: *packs bags and books BUS ticket* I ain't gettin on no plane!! :lol:

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

you can just strap on your obligitory twinkly wings and flllyyyyy yourself over......tralala

[Starlight]

Whhhhhhoooooo Hoooooooo!! *straps on wings and takes off* I can fly! I can Fly!! *drops to the ground at top speed and lands in a tree* OOOoooooooowwwwwww!!! I guess i need to practice! :lol:

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

uuumm....star?



*points to 'off' switch*

:p

[willowfairy]

How are you holding up? Any meat?

[Starlight]

Originally posted by Ball-Bhreac Ròn
uuumm....star?



*points to 'off' switch*

:p

*blushes* Oh! Yeeeeeeeees of course! I knew that, I was......just seeing .....if YOU knew!! Yeeeeeeeeees! Thaaaaaat's it! :eyebrow: :lol: