Was Jesus really Osiris-Dyonisius?

[Aengus McTeague]

After reading the Jesus is Zeus (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=10137) thread, which I frankly found laughable, I started doing some digging on the relationship between Jesus and Osiris which I had heard about years ago. Awfully damn intriguing, IMO.



Christianity was not a new revelation. It was a continuation of Paganism by another name. The gospel story of Jesus is not the biography of an historical Messiah. It is a Jewish reworking of ancient Pagan myths of the dying and resurrecting Godman Osiris-Dionysus, which had been popular for centuries throughout the ancient Mediterranean.

The stories told about Osiris-Dionysus will no doubt sound familiar. He is the Son of God who is born to a virgin on the 25th of December before three shepherds. He is a prophet who offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism. He is a wonderworker who raises the dead and miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony. He is God incarnate who dies at Easter, sometimes through crucifixion, but who resurrects on the third day. He is a savior who offers his followers redemption through partaking in a meal of bread and wine, symbolic of his body and blood. The Jesus story is a synthesis of the Jewish myth of the Messiah Joshua (in Greek Jesus) with these Pagan myths of the dying and resurrecting Godman.

source (http://www.bibleinterp.com/commentary/gandy_011701.htm)

So is the Christ myth really just that? A myth with no historical basis? I, for one, am unconvinced, but want to explore this further. I think you can at least say for certain that the Christ myth BORROWED heavily from the Osiris-Dyonisius myth. What do you think?

BB,
Aengus

[seawitch]

i have done some studying on that subject as well, and the story of jesus is strikingly similar

[Danustouch]

There is a really good novel, which weaves it's story around this theory, and the theory that Mary Magdalene, was really a member of a Goddess Worship Society. Of course, the story has Mary Magdalene, and Jesus marrying, and it is revealed that Mary is Isis incarnate, and Jesus, Osiris. Interesting. The book is called..
"The Moon under Her feet". I really enjoyed it.

Yes, I believe there are many similarities between the Osiris Stories, and the Story of Jesus.

[Aengus McTeague]

I ran an Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062504975/ref=ase_rowanpress/103-2261065-1833435) search on the book, Danustouch. It looks fascinating. I'll have to keep my eyes open for it! Tx for the tip.

BB,
Aengus

[Myst]

My answer is no. Simply, no. Are there similarities? Sure. Are there similarities between Freya and Venus? Actually, yes there are. But they are two *separate* deities. Anyone who has worked with either or both can tell you that. To me, assuming that the Christian God is really just Osiris is like saying all Pagan deities are really Satan.

[Avena]

:confused:


Originally posted by Myst
My answer is no. Simply, no. Are there similarities? Sure. Are there similarities between Freya and Venus? Actually, yes there are. But they are two *separate* deities. Anyone who has worked with either or both can tell you that. To me, assuming that the Christian God is really just Osiris is like saying all Pagan deities are really Satan.


Myst, in several other threads you stated that you believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that all deities are one deity. But now you completely reject the idea that Yahweh (or the christian "LORD") is also just another facet of the one. So for me this is like: (no offense)

"ALL gods are ONE god...well, all but the Christian god..."

Or did I get something wrong?

[talamh]

There is a great similarity between the Jesus stories and the stories of Mythras as well.

From studying and researching this over the years, i have come to the conclusion that the Jesus story is one of many mythologies of the sacrificing god, born of a union between himself and his mother, whoes birth occurs close to or on the winter solstice, and who is honoured and commemorated by rituals involving bread and wine that symbolize body and blood of the god.

i was surprised to discover that Jesus as mythology is one contemporary school of thought amongst some Roman Catholic scholars.... seems instead of heretics these days there are "eclectic Christians".

Sometimes Christianity is very inconsistant and confusing... but then.. sometimes paganism is too. bb talamh

[story]

I think its possible that certain themes were borrowed from other mythologies. I don't think that says conclusivly that Jesus was completly mythical, however. If themes were borrowed, it probably means that the writers of the gospels were trying to make thier god more accessible to people in the comunnities in which they worked.
I also think that its not really possible to say that just because the origins are the same that the character of the dieties involved must also be similar. An analogy to this might be St. Nick and Santa, or prhaps the mythical Wyatt Earp (Upstanding, apple pie eatin lover of justice) and the historical version ( a little less upstanding).
basically, the way i see it, the personality of the diety is defined by the energy poured into it. I've done a little work with both jesus and dionysus. Jesus struck me as infinitly compassionate and forgiving, but i found myself to be more dogmatic and unimaginative than i normally would like. Dionysus, on the other hand, is a hell of a lot more fun at parties, but can be a pretty harsh dancing partner, and a lot less forgiving when you screw up.
while we're on the subject of jesus and dionysus I'd also like throw out a comparison between the play the bacchae and the book of acts. In the first, the King throws Dionysus in the clink, only to find the door to his cell open, and the man himself, like, gone. Something similar happened to paul, if i'm not mistaken.( I have niether book in front of me right now, so forgive my lack of references) I'm not saying that there is aany similarity between the two characters, but I've often wondered if the author of acts was making a reference to a popular play to drive home that a)divine justice is more powerful than secular and b) something big is happening, and the established order wasn't hip to it. Not that this is anything other than sheer speculation mind you. Just a thought.
heh. ya know, somewhere in this mess theres a point. But I have a 103 fever right now, and i can't be bothered to look for it. Instead i think i'll look at the wall. it's doing neat things.
good night.

[ReverendAJS]

I read somewhere that a god doesn't exist until people believe in him/her. So I think it's probably the other way around. God didn't give Jesus power, his followers did. And his followers only knew about the world they lived in, and wanted to present thier teacher in such a way as people of thier time would be able to easily understand. This allowed them to get thier message across as quickly as possible. The human mind wants to associate, so the framers of the bible were only providing the associations.
Rev

[Myst]

Originally posted by Avena
:confused:
Myst, in several other threads you stated that you believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that all deities are one deity. But now you completely reject the idea that Yahweh (or the christian "LORD") is also just another facet of the one. So for me this is like: (no offense)

"ALL gods are ONE god...well, all but the Christian god..."

Or did I get something wrong?

Yup, you did. First, I didn't reject the idea that Yahweh is another facet of One, I rejected the idea that he is Zeus.

I'll try to explain this succinctly. On a basic fundamental level to me All is energy, therefore all humans, living creatures, energies, spirits, etc. and all deities, in their most pure level, are All. However, you know you're not a tree, and I know I'm not a rabbit. We are unique individuals. Even though fundamentally we are all connected as One we are all still individuals. Unity through uniqueness. Therefore, the energy behind Yahweh is the same that is behind Zeus, however, the archetypes are completely separate. It's like saying every page in a book is identical - no, they're not. They're all part of the book (the All), but they are all unique as well (deities, life forms, etc.).

I probably didn't explain it well enough in the other thread, but then no one asked there :)

[Myst]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
This statement makes no sense ...in the light of historical development of mythological cycles. and relatedness of Gods and Goddesses......
I beleive in separate and distinct deities..... and I believe they are all related...... ..
but HISTORICALLY how the myths developed and grew from one another over centuries and

I didn't even suggest I was talking historically. Historically Pagans were called Satan worshippers too, that doesn't mean we ever did. Historical development of myth has little bearing on reality and belief in my book.

[Avena]

Originally posted by Myst


Yup, you did. First, I didn't reject the idea that Yahweh is another facet of One, I rejected the idea that he is Zeus.

I'll try to explain this succinctly. On a basic fundamental level to me All is energy, therefore all humans, living creatures, energies, spirits, etc. and all deities, in their most pure level, are All. However, you know you're not a tree, and I know I'm not a rabbit. We are unique individuals. Even though fundamentally we are all connected as One we are all still individuals. Unity through uniqueness. Therefore, the energy behind Yahweh is the same that is behind Zeus, however, the archetypes are completely separate. It's like saying every page in a book is identical - no, they're not. They're all part of the book (the All), but they are all unique as well (deities, life forms, etc.).

I probably didn't explain it well enough in the other thread, but then no one asked there :)

I knew I was wrong :p

[Myst]

Originally posted by Avena
I knew I was wrong

Nahhh my fault I didn't explain myself properly :D

[Illuminatus]

Jesus is actually based on the lion character "Aslan" from The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe by CS Lewis. Aslan, the lion, protects his "diciples" (namely the 4 children) and sacrafices himself to be shaved and murdered by the evil witch.. before being reborn back into Narnia.

[Aengus McTeague]

Yllautca, sdrawkab s'taht kniht i.
;)

[Amethyst Rose]

Yes, that's backwards :). CS Lewis was a prominent religious writer, and based the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe on the story of Jesus.

Why does that seem off topic to me? Hmm......

[~**foxglove**~]

Here's my little take on things:

Throughout our history in this world we have all been trying to explain or personify the existence of a being/force/creator - call it what you will - in various ways. So it isn't surprising that different characteristics or abilities or related myths one culture has pinned to their own view of this being were 'borrowed' and adapted by another. It doesn't mean that they were the same Gods however, because to me, all a God is is our way of placing a name or a face or perhaps a reality to something we all sense.

In other words, imagine you have some invisible man (bear with me here, hehe). You can't see him, and neither can your neighbour. So you each construct masks for him that he can wear, only when he sees you, so that you can recognise him and acknowledge him.

Your neighbour asks you how you made your mask - so you say, "oh, I used a little clay, some paint, stuff like that..." and they think, yeah, good idea. So they use similar materials for theirs, but ultimately, the masks are different, so you would not really recognise him if he were wearing the other.

It's the same person beneath that mask, but you have both developed different - yet similar - ways to 'see' that person.

I realise that was a terrible hypothetical example but it was the best way I could explain it, hehe!

[lucidfire]

very intriguing idea here, I sure wouldnt' doubt what you're proposing. You've got to admit, the concept of Jesus sure doesn't fit the people who see him as the son of god (as if we aren't all sons/daughters of god.....), being as he's a martyr and all. In essence they say their savior is the the type of people they crusify; just sounds like a timebomb to me.

between the 'all gods are one god' thing, I'd have to say it differently for me. Perhaps Gods, Goddesses, faeries, whatever are one level above us, sort of a collective spiritual process, but when you talk of this all unified spirit that is the source of everything, it would be more like saying "All Gods and Goddesses have a single source," to me anyways. The thing is, "God" came from paganism though, and I think at some point was confused with something that is nameless, aether, the force, whatever.

:shift:

[Sequoia]

hmm. . . tis interesting, this subject. But who's to say Jesus isn't both or all?
I must admit, I havn't really read much in the "Jesus is Zeus" thread, but why couldn't he be both Jesus and (err. . . the other guy -_-; I can't remember the name)? I mean. . . supposedly, the God that is worshipped by Jews, Christians, and Muslums is the same single god. They call him a different name, they worship different ceremonies, but it's the same darn guy! All three of those religions came from Judaism! Jewish. Christianity and Muslimism are both basically "spinoffs" of Judaism. Christianity sees Jesus as the savior. Muslums acknowlaged him as a prophet (or something, I'm not entirely clear on this), but are still waiting for the messiah. But both religions origionally were based on the Jewish religion. What do you think the old testiment is talking about? Those guys weren't Christian. JESUS wasn't Christian. He was JEWISH. J-E-W-I-S-H. -_-; I don't understand why people don't get that.

At any rate, where was I? Oh yes. Anyways, three very rival religions, worshipping the same guy, but calling him something else. Mahap the person we know as "Jesus Christ" (btw I think I heard somewhere that "Jesus" actually means "savior" but don't quote me on that) is just like that: many faces, but one person?

^^;

[flar7]

but I would forget and this looks interesting.

Jesus's name wasnt Jesus. That is what it became in the new testament after a lot of writing?

The old testament told of his coming and his name...which if I remember was gonna be something like emmanual(sp?) and it
wasnt that either.

Christ means savior. Jesus the Christ. The Christ child.

whats in a name? A rose by any other name would...etc..

Jesus wasnt born on the winter solstice. The celebration of his
birth was created and moved to Yule time by the pope.(cant remember which pope) also remember, calander undergoes
drastic changes. There wasnt a december then.

In Jesus's teachings he says he is not God. He is the son of God.
also refers to son of man alot.

Hebrews look on him as a misguided prophet, not noteworthy?

argh!! too many typos keep fixin and findin more.. try to contiue
tomorrow. nite nite

[Kadynas]

Anyone ever read "the Witches' Circle"? It has an interesting section about the similarities between the life cycle of the God and Goddess through the wheel of the year, to the life cycle of Jesus and Mary. The author was raised Catholic and became Wiccan, and she makes some really interesting points.

But do I think Jesus was Osiris or the God as seen by Wiccans? No. I still see all Gods and Goddesses as many faces of a main God and Goddess. After all it /is/ amazing how many similarities there are between the key players in many religious stories. Perhaps we really are all worshipping the same One. :D