Wiccan/Pagan views?

[freakydorky]

are there rules or laws of comandments like the bible or something or is there sins or something?

[Xentor]

In Wicca, there is a Wiccan Rede one may choose to adhere to.

In choosing a pantheon, it is wise to study what deity expects from you. That will be your guide to ethics.

In my own path, the only ethic I adhere to is not to kill unless I have no other choice.

[Agaliha]

For most Wiccans it is the Rede. Just search "wiccan rede" and you'll get the text.
There is also the Rule of Three- what ever you do good or bad comes back times three.

The Rede doesn't apply to all Pagans though. I don't follow it.

If you are a reconstructionist Pagan (Kemetic, Asatru, Hellenismos, Religio Romana, Vedic, Celtic etc) your ethics will probably come from that pantheon and culture. They all have their own views on things and such.

But there are no commandments in Paganism like there is in Christianity. Just codes of ethics and ways to live. Nothing is set in stone.
I personally do not believe in "sin". Most Pagans don't. Sin is a more Christian doctrine linked to "the Fall" and original sin.

I'm sure there are websites about it, maybe if you search "Pagan ethics" or something?

[Athena-Nadine]

Here is a good overview of my ethics. I'm giving you a link because the material is still under Copyright.

Hellenic Ethics: Living Virtues in Community
by Reverend Andrew Campbell (http://www.ecauldron.com/greekethics.php)

[Rudas Starblaze]

isnt there also the "115 rules of wicca" or whatever set by Gerald Gardner himself when he first made up wicca?

[fangedeshana]

isnt there also the "115 rules of wicca" or whatever set by Gerald Gardner himself when he first made up wicca?

If there is, and from what I think of Gardener there probably is, it is quite possible it only stick with Gardenarian Wicca, or paths close to it (Alexandian, etc...unless that was one thing he changed).

Various Trads of Wicca (Correlian, Gardenarian, Alexandrian, Faery, Blue Star, Avalonion, etc) each add in their own rules and such, but all generally adhere to "an it harm none, do as you will". Though the word "Rede" itself I believe is translated to "Advice", not "Rule". So it's basically a guideline, not a commandment.

As for sins, most Pagans dont really think like that. A lot of Pagans, and most Wiccans believe in Karma or the Threefold Rule, which basically tells you that whatever you put out (good or bad) you get back times three. Because of this, people who adhere to it tend to live by "do unto others what you would like done unto you" and try their best to be 'good'.

[Agaliha]

isnt there also the "115 rules of wicca" or whatever set by Gerald Gardner himself when he first made up wicca?

In all my reading and learning (some four years) I never came across anything like that-- just the Law of Three and the Rede...Maybe it's for one tradition or something, I don't know...where did you hear about it?




From About.com--
Q. What Are the Rules/Commandments in Wicca?
A.This may come as a shock, but there are no rules in Wicca. We are not bound by some official list of commandments that tell us what is allowed and what is not. Considering these types of rules in other religions are always being debated/argued over, it's likely for the better.
Many people feel that a lack of rules means we all run amok in our lives, committing all kinds of terrible acts. Believe it or not, it is possible to know right from wrong on your own without having it laid out in front of you by someone else.
The last line of the Wiccan Rede is the closest thing we have to a commandment: "An it harm none, do what you will". Not all Wiccans follow this to the same degree, but it's generally interpreted that anything is OK as long as no one is harmed.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Their is one tenet of Wicca: Do what ye will, but harm none. You can choose whether to follow it or not.

[Rudas Starblaze]

In all my reading and learning (some four years) I never came across anything like that-- just the Law of Three and the Rede...Maybe it's for one tradition or something, I don't know...where did you hear about it?


i came across it in an old book about witchcraft dated not long after WWII when i did a book report in highschool back in 92 or 93 on witchcraft. the author traveled around the world interviewing leaders of different witchcraft groups. the only one mentioned in that book that i have ever heard anything about on here was Gardner. the others were obviously older. in fact, in the book, Gardner was a newby to the whole thing. i know this cause A. it said he was, and B. he said nothing about wicca in his interviews. i cant even remember the actual name of the book. kinda makes me wish i would have just "permanatly borrowed" the book from the (for some time now) closed library. but yeah, he had 115 rules in which he taught within his coven and i guess not long after that is when he must have came up with wicca and ive heard a few others (not on MW) refere to it as the "115 rules of wicca".

[Elderbush]

Well, as you can see from the other posts, different individuals and traditions interpret the Wiccan Rede differently. It is a very good ethical basis for thinking before acting. In my tradition, UEW, we translate "An it harm none, do as you will" as "Do actions that cause no harm freely" (from All One Wicca by Kaatryn MacMorgan).

She adds this to it, "Do as you will, if it harm naught, if it harm some, do as you ought." Added to this is the Law of Return, which means that for every action there is a reaction or "Do good and get good, do bad and get bad."

[Pandoras]

isnt there also the "115 rules of wicca" or whatever set by Gerald Gardner himself when he first made up wicca?

Yep. And it's 161, not 115.

[Agaliha]

Ok, I found the list!
You were right, Rudas Starblaze. I just wonder why I've never heard of it before or even seen a mention of it in any site, book, etc. Very weird.

Here is a link to it:
Wiccan Rules (http://pagan_relief.tripod.com/Pages/wicca_law.htm)

before the list it says this:


In the beginning there was only one form of Wicca, and Gardener's word was law. In fact, his word was 161 laws. these laws, though accepted by his original coven, were a cause of much dissension among later members. Members who could not or would not adhere to one or more of these laws went out into the land and each founded their own version of Wicca with their own rules and codes, minus the laws they had issue with. We provide these laws not only as historical reference, but to to help those new to Wicca understand that not all Wiccans follow the same path. Read on and see how many of these laws you would have taken issue with
(Source: Same site as posted above)


So I guess that explains why it's not really known nowdays.

[dark witch]

Here's a website chock full of Wicca information:

http://wicca.timerift.net/ (http://wicca.timerift.net/)

[DebLipp]

Ok, I found the list!

-----
In the beginning there was only one form of Wicca, and Gardener's word was law. In fact, his word was 161 laws. these laws, though accepted by his original coven, were a cause of much dissension among later members. Members who could not or would not adhere to one or more of these laws went out into the land and each founded their own version of Wicca with their own rules and codes, minus the laws they had issue with. We provide these laws not only as historical reference, but to to help those new to Wicca understand that not all Wiccans follow the same path. Read on and see how many of these laws you would have taken issue with

This is so distorted. First of all, the "only one form of Wicca" is accepted by those who believe that Gardner made it all up, a point that is nowhere near decided. Philip Heselton is doing very interesting primary research into the New Forest group into which Gardner was initiated, and it's becoming increasingly clear that GBG didn't make it all up.

Second, the laws were not accepted by original members. In fact, as Fred Lamond (a member of the original coven) tells it in his book "Fifty Years of Wicca," some of the members had proposed certain rules, and GBG countered with "there are already old rules, we could use those instead" and presented "The Laws" (which some people call "The Ardanes" or "The Ordains"). Most of the members of the coven suspected strongly that GBG had simply made up these old Laws and dressed them in arcane language, but this has never been proven.

Whether the Old Laws are genuinely old or Gardner made them up, though, they were not embraced by the original coven. At that point, the coven was having a great deal of dissension having nothing to do with the Laws (the Laws were introduced to try to make peace). Doreen Valiente left and took about half the coven with her. Doreen's practice was certainly not "Wicca minus the Laws." In fact, she quickly hooked up with Cochrane and practiced that way for a while, and then moved on and did her own thing. But it wasn't just "Wicca minus the Laws" which is a stupid way of framing it.

Meanwhile, the rest of the coven stuck, and passed the Laws on to all subsequent initiates. However, most (but not all) people have treated the Laws as a historical document from day one. If you read them, they are clearly written from the point of view of the Witchcraze, so that colors their tone. They are a useful guideline for behavior with some very good advise, but I really don't know anyone who follows them to the letter.

[teleri]

are there rules or laws of comandments like the bible or something or is there sins or something?

There are many different pagan religions, and they all have their own takes on ethics and morality. If you are really interested in this subject, here is compilation of web links (http://www.silver-branch.org/ssbbiblio/ssbbibem.html) for a number of different pagan religions that will get you started.

Teleri

[Elderbush]

DebLipp, what kind of proof does Heselton have for his findings about the New Forest group? Has it been able to stand up to scrutiny? Yes, the anticedence for the Ordanes has been questioned since the get go and rightly so.:)

[Rudas Starblaze]

Ok, I found the list!
You were right, Rudas Starblaze. I just wonder why I've never heard of it before or even seen a mention of it in any site, book, etc. Very weird.

Here is a link to it:
Wiccan Rules (http://pagan_relief.tripod.com/Pages/wicca_law.htm)

before the list it says this:


So I guess that explains why it's not really known nowdays.


ya know, in that book i read, the word wicca was never used. and some of those laws arent the same. but like i said, it was an old book. one of the laws i vagily remember is about the teaching of the craft. that its not ment for the public and people who "dont have the power" so to speak or something like that. kinda makes me wonder about rule No. 119 and book sells of nowadays!

[PoisonIvy]

ya know, in that book i read, the word wicca was never used. and some of those laws arent the same. but like i said, it was an old book. one of the laws i vagily remember is about the teaching of the craft. that its not ment for the public and people who "dont have the power" so to speak or something like that. kinda makes me wonder about rule No. 119 and book sells of nowadays!



:crylaugh: Here, I don't want no money until I'm published! :crylaugh:

[Rudas Starblaze]

:crylaugh: Here, I don't want no money until I'm published! :crylaugh:


lmao! ok, i think we've strayed for the topic enough! :nyah:

anyways, i think in every religious belief there are rules, laws, guidelines, what have you. i mean, if there wasnt, it would be chaos within the religion itself.

[DebLipp]

DebLipp, what kind of proof does Heselton have for his findings about the New Forest group? Has it been able to stand up to scrutiny? Yes, the anticedence for the Ordanes has been questioned since the get go and rightly so.:)
He's done primary research and has uncovered such information as the people who knew Gardner during his nudist, folklore, and other activities, the people who were definitely or probably members of the Rosicrucian Theater group through which Gardner gained access to the New Forest Coven, the people who lived in the area who had demonstrated or published interests in witchcraft, mythology, herbalism, and the like, two of whom were near neighbors of Dorothy Fordham Clutterbuck, and more.

He has a lively correspondence (and friendship) with Ronald Hutton, and publishes some of the back-and-forth between them about what his research might or might not mean.

The books in question are Wiccan Roots and Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration.

[DebLipp]

kinda makes me wonder about rule No. 119 and book sells of nowadays!
There appear to be numerous typos in the link you offered, but #119 seems to forbid charging for the art of magic, not charging for any and everything related, however loosely, to the art of magic!

[Agaliha]

There appear to be numerous typos in the link you offered
I was the one to post it.
I would have no idea if it is wrong or not, seeing as I just learned there were laws besides the Rede and 3-fold from this thread...

Maybe this site will have a better list?? I don't know.
http://indigo.ie/~wicca/BOS/bos1.html (http://indigo.ie/~wicca/BOS/bos1.html)




This is so distorted. First of all, the "only one form of Wicca" is accepted by those who believe that Gardner made it all up, a point that is nowhere near decided. Philip Heselton is doing very interesting primary research into the New Forest group into which Gardner was initiated, and it's becoming increasingly clear that GBG didn't make it all up.
Second, the laws were not accepted by original members. In fact, as Fred Lamond (a member of the original coven) tells it in his book "Fifty Years of Wicca," some of the members had proposed certain rules, and GBG countered with "there are already old rules, we could use those instead" and presented "The Laws" (which some people call "The Ardanes" or "The Ordains"). Most of the members of the coven suspected strongly that GBG had simply made up these old Laws and dressed them in arcane language, but this has never been proven.
Whether the Old Laws are genuinely old or Gardner made them up, though, they were not embraced by the original coven. At that point, the coven was having a great deal of dissension having nothing to do with the Laws (the Laws were introduced to try to make peace). Doreen Valiente left and took about half the coven with her. Doreen's practice was certainly not "Wicca minus the Laws." In fact, she quickly hooked up with Cochrane and practiced that way for a while, and then moved on and did her own thing. But it wasn't just "Wicca minus the Laws" which is a stupid way of framing it.
Meanwhile, the rest of the coven stuck, and passed the Laws on to all subsequent initiates. However, most (but not all) people have treated the Laws as a historical document from day one. If you read them, they are clearly written from the point of view of the Witchcraze, so that colors their tone. They are a useful guideline for behavior with some very good advise, but I really don't know anyone who follows them to the letter.


I'm glad you clairfied that, amazing how one little paragraph could have so much falsities. Maybe you sould let the site owner know, it might save people from wrong info??