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View Full Version : Vedic and Celtic connections... would love comments



Agaliha
July 30th, 2005, 02:00 AM
I found this site that compared Celtic and Vedic traditions and couldn't help but be interested.
Here is the comparison:



PANTHEON
Vedic gods are called devas, meaning "shinning ones." A philosophically pantheistic overlay built on earlier anthropomorphic deities based on the forces of nature, ethics, culture, and physical skills.

Celtic gods are called deuos, also meaning "shinning ones." Based on a Shamanic, animistic polytheism, the advent of the Druidic order into Celtic society injected a more pantheistic view of deity.

COSMOLOGY
Posits four major interrelated worlds, or planes: the Physical Plane (the phenomenal world perceived by our physical senses), the Astral Plane (the realm of demigods and various non-carnate spirits) and Causal Plane(the realm of Supreme Deity and primal energy), and a hell of sorts, which is more of a corridor to the other three planes rather than it's own plane.

Four major interrelated worlds, or realms; the Nether Realm (Subconscious mind, through which we reach the non-physical realms or planes of existence), the Earth Realm (Conscious mind), the Heavenly Realm (Superconscious mind), and the Star Realm (Cosmic consciousness, transcendent of mind, the abode of all primal energy.)

REINCARNATION
The soul incarnates again and again in response to karma, or the effects caused by actions taken and accumulated life after life until one has attained moksha, or liberation from samsara, the endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth. The Sankrit word for soul is atman.

Although there is only a vague conception of karma, reincarnation was an accepted fact of life among the Celts, who also tended to worship their more successful ancestor, judging their need to be reborn by the physical accomplishments of life. The Gaelic (Celtic) word for soul is anam.

DISCIPLINE
Brahmins study for 12 years to learn oration, mathematics, ritual, astrology, medicine and vedic knowledge. Yogis perform amazing physical austerities through yoga. Breath control is central, the Sankrit word for breath is prana.

Druids studied for up to 20 years to learn oration, mathematics, ritual, astrology, statecraft, diplomacy, and medicine. They also practiced severe austerities, also involving breath control. The Gaelic (Celtic) word for breath is anah.

SCRIPTURAL CADENCE
The ancient Vedic scholars were noted for memorizing the lengthy epics conveying spiritual knowledge and dharmic duty. The poetic metre for these sagas was typically fixed syllable line, free form with 3-part cadence.

The Bards of the Druidic order were required to memorize the Celtic sagas conveying metaphysical truths and civic duty. The poetic metre for the Celtic sagas was also fixed syllable, free form with a 3-part cadence.

WOMEN IN SOCIETY AND RELIGION
Hindus (especially during the Vedic period) elevated the feminine virtues, allowing them to own property and to serve the goddess as priestess.

Celts prized strong women, who fought along side the men in war. Celtic women could own property and serve the goddess as priestess.

RITUAL
The central part of puja, or worship is the fire sacrifice, performed in a fire pit, with offerings of spices and rice, accompanied by chanting.

The focal point of a Celtic ritual is the fire, in a central pit. Offerings to the gods of food and wine were thrown into the fire, usually with chanting.

ETHICS
The Vedas show a special appreciation for honesty, even as a supernatural power. Honor and Eloquence are highly valued

The Celtic sense of Honor is strong and deep. Truth-sayers and orators were held in the same respect as kings among the Celts.

FROM: http://sivaloka.tripod.com/ancient_links.htm (http://sivaloka.tripod.com/ancient_links.htm)


And there's this site linking Brighid and Saraswati Right HERE (http://www.brigitsforge.co.uk/sarasvati1.htm)
It's like 8 pages.
Pretty intereresting as well.

And some other sites:
One (http://realmagick.com/articles/94/1494.html)
another similar comparison (http://www.druidnetwork.org/interfaith/articles/torc.html)
**A great site that has 22 similarities (http://www.hinduism-today.com/archives/1994/5/1994-5-17.shtml)
Another site (http://www.vedanet.com/HinduCeltic.htm)

A few questions for you all:
--I was curious what Celtic Pagans/Wiccans felt about incorporating Hindu Dieties? Is it outlandish or reasonable?
--If I, with Saraswati as my Parton, start a religionship with Brighid (She's always facincated me...Her more than any other Celtic Diety) what would She (Brighid) do? Is it advisable?
--Any thoughts on the site and quoted comparison?

I personally think there are some major coincidences... makes me wonder :)

PS: I wasn't sure if this was better in "history" or not-- I know things like Indo-Euro migrations/invastions are involved. If any Mods want to move it there, please do!

RubyRose
July 30th, 2005, 03:05 AM
Well I'm worship mostly Welsh deities, though I do Brighid has interested me also.

Personally, I think if you wish to worship Brighid, I don't see the harm. I don't know much about Hinduism or Hindu Deities, so I really can't comment on that respect.

Maybe though with the comparisms between the Verdics and the Celts, its just another way of saying, Brighid and Sarasvati, embody the same values or are infact one in the same.

This is all just random thought, as I'm no expert.

Bendithion,
RubyRose

Caelia RavenWolf
July 30th, 2005, 04:40 AM
I can reccomend a few books on the subject if you're interested...

As for blending the two; I don't think it's something I would want to try but I'm CR, not Wiccan. Someone who is Wiccan might disagree.

However, while there Are a lot of similarities there are still a lot of differences and the Celtic and Vedic Gods are Not thought to be the same. I honestly don't know what it would be like trying to work with Gods from both areas; it's not something that I would do but ultimately you have to do what feels right for you.

Morag Elasaid Ni Dhomhnaill
July 30th, 2005, 12:16 PM
I'm another CR-type (though I prefer to use the term Gaelic Polytheist), so again for me it's not something I would do. I personally feel that mixing pantheons in usually disrespectful - though there are cases where it's not, that is to say if there is evidence that ancients did so, such as in Gaul where Celtic and Roman deities were succesfully worshipped side by side. However I also strongly feel that what works for me doesn't necessarily work for everyone else, so it is a decision I think you would have to make on your own.

Celtic Heritage by Rees and Rees is a good place to start though if you're interested in further reading on Celtic and Vedic connections.

Agaliha
July 30th, 2005, 05:01 PM
Thanks for the comments. :)

I don't think Celtic and Vedic are interchangeable or the same, but I do see that there are similarites that link the two-- wheather it be from Indo-Euro migrations or whatever...



while there Are a lot of similarities there are still a lot of differences and the Celtic and Vedic Gods are Not thought to be the same.



Maybe though with the comparisms between the Verdics and the Celts, its just another way of saying, Brighid and Sarasvati, embody the same values or are infact one in the same.


The comparison and the Brighid/Saraswati site were not saying They are the same. It was just pointing out similarities. Two people can both have blue eyes, brown hair and be short-- but those two people are not the same: they are unique.
Saraswati is not Brighid and Brighid and not Saraswati. Celtic pantheon is not the Vedic. Even though there are lots of similarities...there are differences as well.
As for working with Brighid, I think it's best to stick with what I have...I'm already having a tough time with rituals and holidays and the like, even though I do like Brighid.

I just thought it was interesting the little things:
devas, meaning "shinning ones." for Vedic and deuos, also meaning "shinning ones."
But I guess that makes sense. Sanskrit, the language of the Indus and the Vedas is considered the "Mother of Languages" (Indo-European ones)-- which includes amlost all European languages (Celtic and such)...so I guess that accounts for the link in words.

Anyway, thanks :)

BenSt
July 30th, 2005, 10:00 PM
*Nods* MHM, I agree...while they are not entirely interchangeable...there are soem odd similarities...although there are many similarities among the more ancient of belief systems. I read in Ann Moura's "green Witchcraft" her theory that Cernunnos, and the Pre-Shivic deity Rudra are one in the same or are atleastf roms. When looking at it...in the Indus Valley civilization (pre dating the Vedeic invasion)...there are several tiles showing several deities. One is a Horned deity sitting crossed legged surrounded by animals. Looking at the Jungstrapp Cauldron found in Denmark...the 'Cernunnos' pictured is eerily similar to the ancient Indus Bullgod. Now, when taking into account that the vedics originated in around Asia Minor/Caucasious...and are of the same general stock as Celts/Greeks/soem of the Middle Easter peoples...there are many linguistic and religious commonalities. Now, the celts are shown to have originated in the area...or pre celtic ancestors atleast. I would think though that as time went on...the religions split. As for the language...now all European languages except the Germanic languages derive from the Indo Aryan branch. Many of the ancient greek words are similar to Sanskrit words and Persian words. Celtic language...or what we know of it is also of the indo Aryan branch...so ofcourse, they would be similar. I think accents and eventual regional dialects would casue the languages to eventually split from each other...but even now some hindu words are the same as soem Greek, or even soemtiems Italien words. Look at the common Ma...or Pa...words. For example, Mother is the english word...Mamaire is the french...and Mata is the Sanskrit. :). Namaste

Tobias

ap Dafydd
August 1st, 2005, 08:11 AM
A lot of people have noted similarities (maybe deriving from common Indo-European roots). That's not to say that you can mix and match the two. But I think that each can illuminate aspects of the other.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

BenSt
January 15th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Resurrecting. NOT necromancy :)