Cell Phone Religion

[XanderAmon]

Today in the Shakespeare program I'm attening, we had a lecture on the Elizabethan World Picture, but it was prefaced by a whole bunch of history leading up to Elizabethan times. Dennis, the lecturer, brought up the idea that when Britain was converting to Christianity, the churches would be built on top of old Druid sites because the people would just keep coming back to the same place to worship.

ME: So they were basically tricked into becoming Christian?
DENNIS: Not tricked exactly... Were you tricked into buying a cell phone?

He went on to say about how most people don't put much stock in religion, that to the people at the time it was just like the changing of a trend. Even today, people go to church not because they actually believe in it, but because Christianity is "the way things are". Most people simply want something that can explain the world for them, so that they can live their life and raise their kids. Most people, he said, if they are tortured enough or offered enough money, will change their faith. There are some who would not, and stick to what they believe, but, he says, "They are in a vast minority."

I thought to myself, would I change what I believe under pressure? Honestly, I'm not so sure about torture, but I certainly wouldn't do it for money. Even if the threat was so great that I was forced to fold or lose my life, I probably would continue to be a Pagan in secret.

And I would like to add that while I wasn't exactly tricked into getting a cell phone, my family did wait until we actually saw a need to get them before we did... Not just cause "everyone else was doing it".

It makes me rather sad that some people will do something simply because it's the status quo... Especially something as personal as religion.

[Aconite]

he has a very good point. Half the people you ask will just plainly say..um... i guess im a christian. When asked about religion becuase, christinity is, the way thigns are. NO offence to the christians out there but this bugs me to no end. Dont say your somethign you not. PIck a religion you like, that fits you, learn it, study it, practice it, dont say um..i guess im a ___...
honestly
and the fact that people do things becuase others are doing it gets me so mad. If everyone started putting nails in their eye lids would you? half hte world would.

[XanderAmon]

NO offence to the christians out there but this bugs me to no end. Dont say your somethign you not.

I just want to second the motion here. If you are a Christian, heart and soul, that's fantastico. :) It's the people who are just because it's the "thing to do" (and who probably don't even believe it whole-heartedly) who make me sad.

[SilentDreams]

he has a very good point. Half the people you ask will just plainly say..um... i guess im a christian. When asked about religion becuase, christinity is, the way thigns are. NO offence to the christians out there but this bugs me to no end. Dont say your somethign you not. PIck a religion you like, that fits you, learn it, study it, practice it, dont say um..i guess im a ___...
honestly
and the fact that people do things becuase others are doing it gets me so mad. If everyone started putting nails in their eye lids would you? half hte world would.

That reminds me of when you ask someone what religion they follow and they say "My family is...". Um, what?! What does your family have to do with your choice of religious path? Its called making up YOUR mind, not letting your family decide for you.

[Happy Shrew]

My "religion" is an ability to fit to the situation. So, in that case, I'd be one of the conformists you're talking about.

Not that it bothers me that people come to those conclusions. Without knowing the fihe details of what I do, it's very easy to come to a conclusion like that. The simple truth is that I view belief as a tool, or mroe accurately, as a muscle. I have to move that muscle around if I want it to be strong and usable. So yes, if there came some pressure to convert, I'd do it, and I'd do so easily. I'd be sad that I couldn't openly pursue other beliefs, but the stuff that goes on inside my own head is still private.

When it comes to my beliefs, I find that the gods seem to totally understand and support it. It's the humans I have to worry about.

I realize most people who would change under pressure don't look at things the way I do, but mine is a point of view that should be considered. Not all people change their religion because they're fickle SOBs who don't truly care about their faith.

[XanderAmon]

My "religion" is an ability to fit to the situation. So, in that case, I'd be one of the conformists you're talking about.

Not that it bothers me that people come to those conclusions. Without knowing the fihe details of what I do, it's very easy to come to a conclusion like that. The simple truth is that I view belief as a tool, or mroe accurately, as a muscle. I have to move that muscle around if I want it to be strong and usable. So yes, if there came some pressure to convert, I'd do it, and I'd do so easily. I'd be sad that I couldn't openly pursue other beliefs, but the stuff that goes on inside my own head is still private.

When it comes to my beliefs, I find that the gods seem to totally understand and support it. It's the humans I have to worry about.

I realize most people who would change under pressure don't look at things the way I do, but mine is a point of view that should be considered. Not all people change their religion because they're fickle SOBs who don't truly care about their faith.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Are you just talking about experimenting/exploring other religions for the purpose of knowledge? Because I'm hunky-dorey with that.

[Karma Chameleon]

Yeap, that's right most people don't think about why they believe what they do. They merely 'borrow" someone else's opinions or ideas. And I agree that most people who call themselves Christians do so for social reasons because everyone they know are Christian they go along with the program.

[Happy Shrew]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Are you just talking about experimenting/exploring other religions for the purpose of knowledge? Because I'm hunky-dorey with that.

For the purpose of anything I can get out of religion, really. Just not popularity, because I don't care about that. Basically, if it doesn't involve how I represent myself to someone else, it's fair game. The only one I ever lie to is myself, and since I don't believe in the existence of a big-t Truth (y'know, the one absolute, undeniable reality) I'm not bothered by my dishonesty toward myself.

For example, let's say I'm grieving the death of my cat (who thankfully will probably live for a few more years, but we're talking hypothetically). Although by default I don't believe in reincarnation and don't give a hoot about whether or not there's an afterlife, during my period of grief I may decide to take on a belief system that has something like the Summerland, a happy afterlife that's available to animals. I won't go around telling people "Hey, you know where my cat is? The SUMMERLAND!" I won't even take on all of the beliefs and practices of the belief system unless doing so helps me believe in the Summerland. I'll just sleep a little easier at night "knowing" my cat is happy.

I'm very good at persuading myself to buy into something temporarily, so it works for me. Most people I tell about it say they could never pull it off, though.

[Sequoia]

The fact of the matter is, for most people, religion isn't that important. They may say it is, but when you get down to the *heart* of the matter, they hold other things closer than the name by which they address God. You know, things like children's survival, food, shelter... that kind of stuff.


I thought to myself, would I change what I believe under pressure? Honestly, I'm not so sure about torture, but I certainly wouldn't do it for money. Even if the threat was so great that I was forced to fold or lose my life, I probably would continue to be a People in secret.
If the money bought food for your starving children, you would. And if you were being monitered constantly, you couldn't "secretly practise." You could hold your own inner faith as honest to yourself as possible, and not be able to show or tell others what you believe, but then again, "religion" is what someone else sees you do; spirituality is what you feel within. Or something like that ;)


And I would like to add that while I wasn't exactly tricked into getting a cell phone, my family did wait until we actually saw a need to get them before we did... Not just cause "everyone else was doing it".
What makes you feel you "needed" it? How many years have people gotten along just fine without a phone glued to their face, wired to the Net, 24-7?

Home phones have a good use, and so do cell phones. But must every single member have a phone, so that you can tell Sally in the Bread department what Mom in the Meat department wants? :p

(disclaimer: I have a phone. It has goodies like a camera. It has e-mail. It is for urgent matters if I'm out and about. It's my main phone line when I'm at home. And it's for long distance, 'cause it's free in the evening. :p But did I pay for it? Heck no. It was a gift. A valuable gift, and a very useful gift. But a luxury, just the same.)

[Karma Chameleon]

Generally, people do whatever they are told to, especially if it makes their lives easier or they can get something out of it. They're sheep. If tomorrow it suddenly became fashionable to be pagan, people would say to their friends "Pagan? Yeah, I was into that for years before it became popular, didn't you know? No one's more pagan than I am." And a month later when the fashion changed they'd be saying "Shinto? You know I've been practicing that secretly all these years. I just never said anything until now." And the month after that it'd be "National Socialist? Yeah, I always loved Hitler myself. I never bought all those lies about those guys but I couldn't really say anything, ya know?" Or "Environmentalist? Been one since birth! Say, how about you and I jump in the shower together now baby? We gotta save water you know."

:veryweird :veryweird :veryweird