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mysticvik
November 9th, 2001, 08:37 AM
ive just been reading an article by a reverend something or other, he says that parents shouldnt let their children read the Harry Potter books because they lead them into occult ways and that more children are becoming more interested in devilish pagan ways from tv shows such as buffy and angel, did anyone else see this? did i read it wrong? :confused:

Also, I found this website: www.soc.surrey.ac.uk/-scs1ec/castleford.html. I thought this was funny because im from Castleford!!!!!!

Xander67
November 9th, 2001, 08:51 AM
unfortunately,
there are some people out there that are still "living in darkness"
they are close minded people who obviously have no repsect for the laws of the land they live in...

there is a church in the south of the usa somewhere, that has issued a proclomation stateing that the Harry Potter books encourage pagan beliefs....

to that guy I say, "yeah, and what of it?" "you trying to tell us we cant be Americans?"

I watched a feature reguarding the world primere of the movie in London... alot of stars were in attendance, including the Princess of Monaco...

one of the celebs stated..."Magic is a part of my daily life "
Cher was there too...

the movie opens on the 16th in the USA....

No One has the right to tell anyone in this country that they cannot be Pagan...

if these people think that they can continue to viloate our constiutional rights to freedom of religion...They are in for a surprise...

this issue has been picked up by Cnn even... and now it will be delt with with world attention and hopefully, these people will be made to see that they are breaking the law...and hopefully this will be an expample for any others who want to try and impose or dicriminate against ANY religion....

Myst
November 9th, 2001, 12:01 PM
Hm maybe someone forgot to tell him there have been criminals and children who do naughty things since the beginning of time - well before these shows, and loooong before the television came into being..

Old Witch
November 9th, 2001, 12:19 PM
:( I am willing to bet that when the movie premieres in my town, Augusta, Ga. somebody will be there to protest and scare kids by intimidation. And,it will be their right. And, even tho it is their right to protest, they will abuse it by their intimidation. The witchy community probably won't answer back.I know I... won't. Why? Nearest I can figure......I really don't know where I'm going with this. Help me out here.

Myst
November 9th, 2001, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Old Witch
The witchy community probably won't answer back.I know I... won't. Why? Nearest I can figure......I really don't know where I'm going with this. Help me out here.

I know I wouldn't. There are those who will listen to reason and those who won't, and as far as I'm concerned with those in the latter group all you can do is try not to let them get to you.

Old Witch
November 9th, 2001, 12:35 PM
Myst, my mind hadn't even gone in that direction. Thanks!

phoenixsong
November 9th, 2001, 06:52 PM
When I heard someone, about a month ago, talking about how some American fundamentalists are condemning Harry Potter as evil and satanic, I decided to look on a search engine for sites relating to this. You wouldn't believe how many came up. I laughed at the first couple, thinking, how can people be so narrow-minded and thick, but I got a little nervous after that.

Xois
November 9th, 2001, 07:35 PM
yeah and the same group wanted to ban Little Red Riding hood for carrying WINE in her basket to Grandma!

These people have nothing better to do

Actually, if we sic these guys on the Terrorists...the issue would be solved already...they are nothing if not presistant

Armitage
November 9th, 2001, 07:37 PM
Like I said before.....
Why can't entertainment be just that?
There are some sites that actually quote the Onion's spoof on this as fact, proving how little these people research, and how desperate they are to back up their point.

SnowStar
November 10th, 2001, 12:54 AM
There were some people here who had put signs out by one of the theatres here and they were protesting the movie. The signs, however were on the property of the theatre, and they had to move them across the street because they'd put the signs on private property. Well, the signs remained for a few more days on the other side of the road, but whoever had organised it had to have people stand by the signs so no one would take them down, I presume. Eventually they did get taken down, whether someone made them or they felt that they got their point across. Whatever, either way I say good riddance to ignorant rubbish.

I suspect they might be back at the premeire, though, but if they are they had better not mess with me or anyone I am there with. I may not believe in resorting to violence, but its still not a good idea to piss me off. I've gone off on many people more important than they, and as much as I have tried to teach myself to hold my tongue, if one more person tells me I'm going to hell...

SpikesPet5150
November 10th, 2001, 02:20 AM
I think the Harry Potter books are some of the best books I've ever read in my entire life. They're so amazing. I, for one, will be standing there proud on opening night. If anyone tries to intimidate me, I'll show them my pentacle.. give them a nice big smile and say, "NEXT!!!" :)
~Bree

Kadynas
November 10th, 2001, 03:46 AM
I know Harry Potter is supposed to be a kid's series, but the movie looks so neat I think I might have to check it out. :lol:

I for one don't understand the controversy. I don't see anyone trying to ban all the books/movies with Xtians in them! It's just plain wrong, just like censorship in general.

Besides, guess what? A lot of kids are coming over to Paganism without any help from Harry Potter! Look at all the younger members we've got at MW! Haven't heard any of them say yet "I wanna be a witch like Harry Potter"! It's so ridiculous I have to laugh, but then it scares you because there are /really/ people this close-minded out there!

UnSolon
November 10th, 2001, 03:55 AM
I've read all the Harry Potter books, courtousy of my youngest sister. I find them fairly humourous, and well written, but no worse than any other classic with mythical plot lines.

I read the other day that the Harry Potter books have actually topped the 2000 Banned Book list. The anti-hype over the new movie has been likened to the premier of "The Wizard of Oz" almost a century ago. Today OZ seems pretty tame by our standards, but I can see why some people might object to it, just as people object to the new Potter movie.

Oh well. This movie will be a best seller on the movie screens and in the toy stores... just like the entertainment companies want it to be.

Peace

Swanspirit
November 10th, 2001, 04:22 AM
"I read the other day that the Harry Potter books have actually
topped the 2000 Banned Book list. "
I read that too....... these are the same people who called the Smurfs pagans......... the Teletubbies gay.....and now they have Harry.....
to point their fingers at........
I just think it is too big a phenomenon ...... and they appear ALL the more ridiculous.....by protesting .........
Since when have we denied children fantasy .... and good story telling........ and I dont think there is any coincidence and that there is a great deal of synchronicity that the most popular childrens books at the beginning of the millenium are based in fantasy and about magic ...... and I for one will celebrate the movies as I did the books. with much laughter..... music and dancing.....
Love and Light
Swannie

Xander67
November 10th, 2001, 05:38 AM
Id like to know who came up with the idea that Little Red Riding Hood was carrying Wine in her basket......

obvoiusly this person must have been sleeping in class LOL

the basket and the red cape were metaphores...and she was not carrying wine, he should do some more research before he goes around speaking such nonsense the man does not know what he is talking about....

I think , once you see the movie, once you see the symbolism and the wealth of wisdom concealed within.... you will understand why it is being attacked.... Just take a good look at who is attacking it, and bear in mind the fact that anything that empowers or spiritually enlightens the soul, is prime target...

this reminds me of the Renisance period...I see a revival if the arts here.......

and hey, let them try to bann the potter books, what court of law in todays society will sign any petition , on what grounds..

I can see it now...
"your honner we feel that the potter books encourage pagan beliefs"

and most likely , in ANY US COURT the judge would say,
banning the books on that grounds would be unconstitutional ...

this will eventually go to court....it will indeed...
I am not worried ,

EarthWitch
November 10th, 2001, 06:04 AM
The Harry Potter books rock so dont diss!!(Not that any of you were its just crazy people who want to say they are evil!!)
Entertainment is good and if people want to diss it because they have so little faith in their own religion they feel the need to say nasty things about ours thenthey are really the ones who are messed up!I am FED UP of religious descrimination and there is no way I will lie down and take it!!People need to learn that all religions are paths to God(however you see Her/Him/It) and they should learn to embrace religions!!Sorry if I sounded angry there but I dont like it!!!!!(And you'd already guessed that!)Anyway I cant wait until the movie comes out-who else is going to see it?

Methanespirit
November 10th, 2001, 08:25 AM
Unfortuneately, many in the Church are more interested in progating legalism and condemnation rather than teaching continuing growth and faith in Christ Jesus. If these religious folks wish to eliminate the Harry Potter books from children and parents reading list, then they should teach continuing faithfulness to the Lord of their life, and not attempt to eliminate such from them through condemnation. It is personally held that these religionists, do not know how to teach continuing growth and faith so, the take cheap shots at something that they disagree with and pass that off as being "spiritual" and presenting obedience to their dictates as growth in faith. This is little more than leagalism =attempting to elevate one's self through works, which is itself condemned in the Bible (Galatians 2:16 and 5:4)

You know when I was a kid (a couple hundred years ago!), we used to dress up in Halloween costumes, including ghosts and witches. (Children were more honored back in the 1940s' than today.) But we never heard from the religious community about condemnation for our childish antics, while we "Trick or Treated" around the neighborhood. And besides, we weren't enthused about the origins or the religious implications of Halloween but rather the childish perception of the phonemena an appearances of the season. It is personally held that children should be allowed to be children without adult intervention, utilizing those ideas that are beyond the mentality of a child, including Halloween costumes.

Xander67
November 10th, 2001, 01:04 PM
:nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :boing: :boing: :boing: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Bravo!!!.................................Bravo!!!

I can t wait till Harry has his day in court..:cool:

Saeryn
November 10th, 2001, 02:53 PM
I've finally been able to start reading the Harry Potter books courtesy of my 7 year-old nephew who has been generously lending them to me (Thanks, A.!). Great reading and fun stuff!

I fail to see why some people have their knickers in a wad over these books. Most books I loved best as a kid had magic and fantasy as main elements (i.e., Narnia stories, the Madeline L'Engle books, a fave book I loved called "The Littlest Witch")--what's the big deal about books of this genre now? These types of stories have been popular with *generations* of kids :confused:

Are the fundamentalists *that* bent on eliminating imaginative thoughts from the minds of kids that they must call it "satanic"? These people are truly sad! :(

My husband and I both plan to see the movie ourselves. After reading the books, I have a feeling that the film is gonna be quite a treat to see. :thumbsup:

I'm still anxiously awaiting the release of "Lord of the Rings", too! I plan to dress up in my Ren Faire garb when I go to see it! :boing: :boing: :boing:

~~Saeryn

SpikesPet5150
November 10th, 2001, 03:29 PM
Madeline L'Engle .... didn't she write A Wrinkle In Time? I read that book in 7th grade, and it was so amazing to me... I absolutely loved that book. I started reading, A Swiftly Tilting Planet, but then my book got ruined... I think it's about time I go to the library and get a new one. :)
~Bree

UnSolon
November 10th, 2001, 06:46 PM
:) yeppers, Madaline L'Engle did write those books. And a whole bunch of other ones aswell. She was one of my favorite authors years ago. Then I finished all her books so I havent had much to read of hers latly.

The Narnia series, and other C.S. Lewis books are fantastic. They create a whole other world which inspires and enthralls you. Anyon ever see the BBC mini series?

Anyone ever read any of Ursala K. Leguin's books? Ie: the Earthsea Trilogy (actually 4 books, and a 5th 'apparently' coming out). They are fantastic. Leguin has also written tonnes of other hard hitting books which explore the human condition, check out "The Dispossessed". It is fantastic. I only got through half of it when I lost it on the Ferry, and it was a Library book too (and I even worked at the Library at the time).

Peace :thumbsup:

mysticvik
November 10th, 2001, 08:05 PM
Im going to see it! try stopping me!!!! its not on till the 16th though!

StormChaser
November 11th, 2001, 03:35 AM
I find harry potter.. quite.. lacking.
I'm a BIG fantasy lover.. I'm 19 and my fav section of the bookstore is STILL young adult. *has been since i was 6-7 when i picked up the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.*

I loved Wren the The Rescue, Dragon Riders of Pern, Children of Lir, Wild Magick, The Dreaming Jewels, and of course all old tellings of modern fairy tales. These were great books. They had a REAL land you could understand, a form of Magic(k) that had a sense of consistancy and dose of reality that never made me shake my head and go "Wait.. That Can't Happen" and pull me out enjoying the story. The charachters were well built, and yet they grew.. but within themselves.. retaining their personas.

Now I know the ugly truth behind how Harry Potter made its way on the shelves to being #1. It's a sad story about tossing several REALLY great authors when their contracts ended instead of renewing on the basis of producing for commerciallized fluff. I am personally disheartened by this intrusion of pop-culture into fantasy literature. Using books as promo's to the movie theater.


Suddenly children that deteste reading can say they are readers because they can tollerate picking up a book that has no more charachter than that of Sweet Valley High and THe Babysitters Club of the 1980's.

What about kids that want to read more from the authors of Lir, Wren, etc. They must now pay rediculous prices because their books are out of print, thanks to mainstream societies desire for mediocrity?

What of the joys that a true reader gets out of picking up a book and falling in love with this one set of charachters.. not charachter, and this land.. and having great dreams and having their own personal lives completely altered by this new universe.. new dimention they would enter upon opening up the a new book.. and smelling the fresh unturned pages for the first time.

What of the passing THIS joy, onto the children who are only mediocre readers, allowing them the pleasure of this form of discovery so they to can really dive into literature with a love and a passion for using their imaginations.. rather than passion for jumping into a car and driving to the cinema?

But this is all just my take..
~Storm (who's giving out books for Yule this year)

UnSolon
November 11th, 2001, 05:25 AM
You must keep in mind that the Harry Potter books are CHILDREN's Books. They are meant for the age group of kids in elementry school, not a graduate from high school.

While I can find childrens books humourous, or well written, it does not mean that I thought they were the best books in the world. However sometimes its nice to read a bit of fluff, and take a break from my life expanding, introspective, "Deep" books.

Peace
UnSolon

flar7
November 11th, 2001, 05:28 AM
I can write something really good, or write what the people want ie. sells. Harry Potter sells. So the majority likes the books. He aint that new, there are 5? or so in the series.

Now your serious readers, they are in the minority and have to shoulder that burden with the extra dollars and time it takes to find what they consider good.

Writing is very hard, I am not published yet but would like to be, and if anyone becomes successful at it, then cudos.

You may not like em' but it still takes talent. I have never read a harry potter book but am looking forward to it just to see if it lives up to the hubbub.

And Anne McCaffrey(sp?) kicks butt!

Methanespirit
November 11th, 2001, 10:53 AM
Remembering when Sesame Street first came on PBS in the early 1970s', I could't wait to watch the program, whenever I could, because it filled me in on some early shcool concepts that were over by head then. Also, a girlfried of mine was an elementary school teacher back then, she found some old "Dick and Jane" primer readers, ("See Spot run, here comes mommy") that I remember attempting to read while in the 3rd grade, yet. (I didn't learn how to read and comprehend what was read until in the 4th grade! -just a slow, or more than likely, a bored learner). But i enjoyed re-reading them because of what was missed during those early school years.

...........Methane

StormChaser
November 11th, 2001, 12:39 PM
many of the books i mentioned ARE elementary books..
In fact.. all save Dragon riders, and perhaps Lord of the Rings are specifically meant for younger readers

It just so happens my preference for reading lies in that age group because I like the "Lighter" side of things.
Because I have 8 cousin all of which are 12 and under.. most of whom are actually under 7 years old.
I am also a Nanny of a 3 year old and an 8 month old.

I know a good book vs. a cruddy one.
Potter.. is cruddy. As a writer i know that, as a reader i know that. I know that they are made specidically for the majority to suck money out of people.. commercialized fluff.. just like most of todays pop musicians. Yeah theres a series of 5..big whoop. Wren to the Rescue is a series of 3.. there would have been more if Sherwood Smith (you may know the book The Borrowers and James and the Giant Peach,.... he had a hand in these too) hadnt been dropped for the commercialized fluff of the writings of JK Rowling.

~Storm Chaser

Saeryn
November 11th, 2001, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by UnSolon
:) yeppers, Madaline L'Engle did write those books. And a whole bunch of other ones aswell. She was one of my favorite authors years ago. Then I finished all her books so I havent had much to read of hers latly.

The Narnia series, and other C.S. Lewis books are fantastic. They create a whole other world which inspires and enthralls you. Anyon ever see the BBC mini series?

Anyone ever read any of Ursala K. Leguin's books? Ie: the Earthsea Trilogy (actually 4 books, and a 5th 'apparently' coming out). They are fantastic. Leguin has also written tonnes of other hard hitting books which explore the human condition, check out "The Dispossessed". It is fantastic. I only got through half of it when I lost it on the Ferry, and it was a Library book too (and I even worked at the Library at the time).

Peace :thumbsup:

Oooo, yes, I *did* see the BBC mini-series. A marvelous interpretation--especially the "Silver Chair" when they had Tom Baker of Dr. Who play Puddleglum.

I *love* Ursula LeGuin and have been reading her books for a lonnnnggg time. I tend to fluctuate between fanatasy and sci-fi and will read 2 or three books in rotation at a time--right now it's Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" and the Gormenghast trilogy by Mervyn Peake.

Has anyone ever read the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan? Great stuff with wonderfully believable characters.

~~Saeryn

StormChaser
November 11th, 2001, 01:12 PM
I don't think Harry Potter should be taken off the shelves.. quite the contrary.. it is good that it entertains so many.. i just think that moderation is key. Dropping writers of books of quality, to endorse books for the quantity of money is wrong.

I'd like to see other books on the main stand of the bookstore next to Harry Potter by other authors so the journey into imagination doesn't end when the HP fad has ended. And don't go telling me it's not a fad. Anything that "sweeps the nation" in so little time.. is a fad.

I like witchy books.. I think its great this book does so much if anything.. to sort of.. endorse.. the craft. But then again.. so do the other books I have mentioned and many more. Depicting magic as tool that can be used for both the purposes of good and bad.. some depict magic to be more like the reality than the fantasy in a very fantastical mannor. This is good.

I'd rather see the book industry capitalizing on these books... than WB. I really don't see anything wrong with that desire.

~Storm Chaser

Xander67
November 11th, 2001, 04:09 PM
if I may enter my opinion in response to Storm Chaser stateing that Harry potter is lacking,

The harry potter books are, in my opinion, merely intended to encourage children to believe in themselves and to help them search for the true real magic which we all posess, it is meant to encourage them to seek for themselves while merely pointing the way for them...

it is a delightful contrast to that movie the craft which has had many of us in the pagan community vomiting for months after it was released becasue It was toooo detailed and not to mention had no real plot...



this is off topic but it sorta applies to this thread and another one
for those who are following the thread in pagan geek about computers and religon

here is my opinion Harry Potter = scicence
and the craft would be like religion LOL

StormChaser
November 11th, 2001, 04:54 PM
Well im glad some kids, a lot of kids are getting something out of this attempt to saturate and milk the market.

I still refuse to endorse it. I'd rather read from an author that actually has some semblance of writing ability and integrity.

~Storm Chaser

Xander67
November 11th, 2001, 04:57 PM
I can respect your opinion Strorm, so then I guess we can agree to disagree on this one :) at least you arent campaining to bann them though LOL

Or are you secretly supporting it heheh jsut kidding storms

UnSolon
November 11th, 2001, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Methanespirit
... she found some old "Dick and Jane" primer readers, ("See Spot run, here comes mommy") that I remember attempting to read while in the 3rd grade, yet. (I didn't learn how to read and comprehend what was read until in the 4th grade! -just a slow, or more than likely, a bored learner)...........Methane

Methane, I completly understand the learning to read late thing. I too didnt learn to read per-say until the summer before grade 4. However once I did I far surpassed almost every other kid in the school (mind you my spelling was NEVER one of my strong points, actually my worst point). I have never failed a class, and I love to read. Peace