Coma Patient Dies After Giving Birth

[Athena-Nadine]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/03/AR2005080300224.html


A brain-dead woman who gave birth yesterday to a baby daughter at a Northern Virginia hospital died today after she was taken off life support, doctors and family members said.
Susan M. Torres, 26, her body ravaged by cancer that spread to her brain and other vital organs, was disconnected from the ventilator and other machines that kept her alive. Her death came a day after doctors delivered a 1 pound, 13 ounce girl by Caesarian section. The baby, named Susan Anne Catherine Torres, appeared to be healthy and is being cared for and observed in the neonatal intensive care unit of the Virginia Hospital Center in Arlington, doctors said.



My heart goes out to her family.

[Brenda]

It must be hard for her family, what should they do? Be happy or cry?
Someone they loved is lost, but a new one is there.
My thoughts are with her loved-ones

[LittlePerson]

How auwfully sad. It's just auwful to think that she never got to see the baby at all. I hope that her family is coping okay.

[Rockprincess]

I am so very glad that the little one seems to be ok so far. I imagine that there is a fair bit of grief involved for the family, but since they've known what the outcome would be since basically 17 weeks, I would think they've done a lot of their processing already. I cried a bit when I heard the news - I'm glad Susan (the mom) can rest in peace now, and I'm so relieved Susan (the baby) made it to 26 weeks before she had to come out to struggle

[BlueMoon13]

Prayers for the little one :hugz: .

[Semele]

I insist all you pregnant women get out of this thread and stop reading these stories.

Prayers going out to the family.

[Athena-Nadine]

I insist all you pregnant women get out of this thread and stop reading these stories.

I know it's probably completely inappropriate, but that made me laugh.

[Strega Del Vento]

In death, there is life. My heart goes out to her family, but now they have a precious baby girl that is a part of her forever.

[Mjollnir]

Ok, I have A LOT of problems with this....................

""made the decision this morning to withdraw artificial life support systems" from his wife"

So IOW, if she wasnt pregenant would she have even been on life support????


" He said the birth resulted from "Susan's determination," adding that his sister-in-law "was always the toughest person in that ICU room."

Bull, the birth resulted from her being kept on life support for 3 months AFTER she was pronounced brain upon admission to the hospital

"the risk of continuing her pregnancy had become greater than the risk of delivering the baby at the then-gestational age of 27 weeks."

As tragic as this is, the fact that the woman was used simply as a vessel disturbs me, seeing as they already had one child.

"At the time of the delivery, Torres's cancer was spreading rapidly, and doctors were having more and more difficulty maintaining her vital organs in what amounted to a race between the disease and the baby's development to an age that gave hope for survival."

If she was brain dead, your organs will cease shortly after if not on life support, so the reason her cancer kept spreading is becasue they continued to keep her alive.

"After she was admitted to the hospital and pronounced brain dead, her husband faced the choice whether to let her die or try to keep her alive artificially long enough to give birth to a premature baby, who might be disabled."

This seems selfish to me, my wife told me 3 months ago she read an article stating that her husband said "this is what she would have wanted" in regards to putting her on life support knowing full well she was pregenant and it was the sole purpose for putting her on LS in the first place, remember the Schiavo case? I just see so many things wrong with this and while tragic as it is it makes me wonder whats next.

The husband quit his job, moved into the hospital and the uninsured portion of the bill was in the tens of thousands a WEEK and donations were pouring in to help the husband defray the bills. I feel this money could have been used to help in research or to help those ALIVE instead of being used on a woman who was being used solely for a vessel for this child.

[LadyTrinity]

I think its wonderful that they kept her alive to keep her baby alive. She wasn't technically living so she would have died anyways. Now they have a little angel who will grow up into a beautiful little girl

[Shanti]

Ok, I have A LOT of problems with this....................

""made the decision this morning to withdraw artificial life support systems" from his wife"

So IOW, if she wasnt pregenant would she have even been on life support????


" He said the birth resulted from "Susan's determination," adding that his sister-in-law "was always the toughest person in that ICU room."

Bull, the birth resulted from her being kept on life support for 3 months AFTER she was pronounced brain upon admission to the hospital

"the risk of continuing her pregnancy had become greater than the risk of delivering the baby at the then-gestational age of 27 weeks."

As tragic as this is, the fact that the woman was used simply as a vessel disturbs me, seeing as they already had one child.

"At the time of the delivery, Torres's cancer was spreading rapidly, and doctors were having more and more difficulty maintaining her vital organs in what amounted to a race between the disease and the baby's development to an age that gave hope for survival."

If she was brain dead, your organs will cease shortly after if not on life support, so the reason her cancer kept spreading is becasue they continued to keep her alive.

"After she was admitted to the hospital and pronounced brain dead, her husband faced the choice whether to let her die or try to keep her alive artificially long enough to give birth to a premature baby, who might be disabled."

This seems selfish to me, my wife told me 3 months ago she read an article stating that her husband said "this is what she would have wanted" in regards to putting her on life support knowing full well she was pregenant and it was the sole purpose for putting her on LS in the first place, remember the Schiavo case? I just see so many things wrong with this and while tragic as it is it makes me wonder whats next.

The husband quit his job, moved into the hospital and the uninsured portion of the bill was in the tens of thousands a WEEK and donations were pouring in to help the husband defray the bills. I feel this money could have been used to help in research or to help those ALIVE instead of being used on a woman who was being used solely for a vessel for this child.

How do you know she didnt want it this way? Its not using her if she was the type of mother that would sacrifice it all for her child...I would. And as for a disability...the mom refused testing she obviously felt, as I do...it doesnt matter...all people have a purpose.
From the article:

The couple had a son, Peter, now 2, and were happy to get the news that another baby was on the way. When Jason Torres made the decision to try to save the baby in May, he was certain it was what his wife, who refused testing for birth defects, would have wanted.

[Mjollnir]

How do you know she didnt want it this way?

Same way we didnt know Schiavo "wanted it"




Its not using her if she was the type of mother that would sacrifice it all for her child...I would.:

And since she was brain dead upon admission, how are we to know she was???




And as for a disability...the mom refused testing she obviously felt, as I do...it doesnt matter...all people have a purpose.
From the article:



"he was certain it was what his wife, who refused testing for birth defects, would have wanted."

Then IMO she was foolish.

Get a grip folks, this is my opinion on the subject, you dont like it fine.....dont go getting your nuts in a wad over it.

[Shanti]

Get a grip folks, this is my opinion on the subject, you dont like it fine.....dont go getting your nuts in a wad over it.

Know one is stopping you from having an opinion..I just asked a question. I didnt even say wether I like your opinion or not!!! I didnt get my nuts in a wad...heck I aint got any!!

[Mjollnir]

Know one is stopping you from having an opinion..I just asked a question. I didnt even say wether I like your opinion or not!!! I didnt get my nuts in a wad...heck I aint got any!!


While that may be true, your responses:


How do you know she didnt want it this way? Its not using her if she was the type of mother that would sacrifice it all for her child...I would. And as for a disability...the mom refused testing she obviously felt, as I do...it doesnt matter...all people have a purpose.

tell me you dont agree, which is fine. I would have said panties but didnt want to offend anyone......................

This is obviously a topic in which opinions are going to vary and I feel it was ridiculous.

[Shanti]

I also can point out other perspectives, can I not?

[AuroraSilvermist]

Get a grip folks, this is my opinion on the subject, you dont like it fine.....dont go getting your nuts in a wad over it.

Uh, geeze...I smell a double standard. Shanti was just expressing her opinion and giving her perspective regarding what you said. She neither agreed with you or directly disagreed; she just pointed out that there are other ways to look at it. If anyone's getting their anything in a wad, it seems to me it's you. So, relax. :whatgives

[Mjollnir]

Uh, geeze...I smell a double standard. Shanti was just expressing her opinion and giving her perspective regarding what you said. She neither agreed with you or directly disagreed; she just pointed out that there are other ways to look at it. If anyone's getting their anything in a wad, it seems to me it's you. So, relax. :whatgives


Whatever it is you smell isnt a double standard . If I got my nuts in a wad it certainly wouldnt be over an internet discussion topic. I have seen how vehement and flame happy members here can get regarding certain sensitive topics so before anyone made the mistake of coming at me head on I thought it best to state that it was my opinion. If no one agrees with me on my stance I could give a damm and take your own advice.

[charmedkisses1]

the baby is ok? :)

[equinox2]

The couple had to make some tough choices – my heart goes out to them.

This is a pretty straightforward situation. They had already decided to have the baby (and she was 4 months along) when the cancer rendered her unconscious. Of course she would have wanted to save the baby. She was effectively dead back in may, and her husband knew it. Legal precedent (rightly, I think) specifies that the spouse is to make decisions for an incapacitated partner. After the Shiavo case, I think Jason had a good chance of knowing that his wife would not want her body kept alive for no reason. There was a reason to keep her body alive until the birth. After that, there was no reason.

Yes, her body was used solely as a vessel for making this baby. That’s what she probably wanted, and that’s fine. We can use our bodies as we wish, and this is what the mother used her body for – to create a life when that body was doomed anyway. She herself had effectively died back in May. As Rockprincess pointed out, the family has known the situation for months, and has probably already done much of the grieving for her. They didn’t know the baby would make it, and now it looks like they have the joy of knowing that it is likely the baby will live. (charmed kisses - yes, probably. The baby has a 90% chance of surviving).

It is tragic that she died, but wonderful that she saved the baby, who was able to rise like a phoenix from the ashes of her mother’s death. What will her life be like? What kind of child? What kind of teen? What kind of mother? what kind of old woman? It's all a gift that her mother made possible for her.

[HorseCrow]

I saw it on the news... really heartbreaking. I just hope the baby will be ok.

[SphinYote]

I'm glad the baby was ok.

Been reading the posts, the following is what crossed my mind as I read through it, my own opinion on the matter. I will start with the disclaimer that I don't think we really have any way of knowing what is right or wrong in matters like this, but based on my own beliefs (and beliefs are just that, beliefs, not facts, nothing that can be proven one way or another), I think that the family and doctors did the right thing.

I will state, and this may offend some people, that if a person is brain-dead, then they are by my definition, dead. What the body is uded for after that point , well, I can't see how it really matters since that person isn't there anymore. Although, had they made their wishes known before hand, that does make a difference. But it didn't happen. THerefore what happens to the person who doesn't make their wishes known is a result of whatever social forces ar at work in the lives around them.

Granted, it's a theological point, if someone were to believe that the soul remains in the body until it is completely physically dead physically dead, then it may change the way one feels about that argument. I don't believe so, mainly because if the body is brain dead, there is no hope of recovery and no chance for the soul/spirit if such exists to continue learning (if that is indeed our purpose in life). I have no way of knowing for certain, but it just seems illogical to me that the soul if such exists would stick around except possibly to stay near loved ones in this life.

HOWEVER, I do see where the debate comes in, it's no different than making a choice about organ donation. Legally, I would say, if she wished to have her organs donated, there was absolutely nothing wrong with using her body in this way, they were simply using her organs to keep another being alive...(and no, it doesn't day whether she wanted such or not, I'm just bringing it up to be considered). If by contrast she never made that request, o in fact did not believe in such, then legally what they did was wrong. We unfortunately don't have that information. But in the absence of knowledge of her wishes, I believe that using her body to keep another alive was the right thing to do.

The mother got pregnant, knew she was pregnant (I assume, however I haven't looked at the case that closely). If she'd wanted an abortion, I would think she'd have gotten it early on. Since she didn't, I can only assume that she wanted the child to be born, and as such, the doctors and family were following through with her wishes, even if they were never explicitly stated.

SphinYote

[SphinYote]

More rambling contemplation of the subject, more of a debate with myself than anything else at this point, so read if you want but I'm not sure how relevant the following is to anyone but me:

Granted there is a contradiction with my own beliefs, with the fact that she got pregnant with the second child to start with, but that's based on the fact that I think people should consider adopting children who already need families and homes, rather than having another child at the expense of the orphans in the world. I feel extremely strongly about this, but, some can't adopt. Some feel much more strongly than I do about blood ties. It doesn't matter though at this point. The child was concieved. Although I am pro-choice I do feel uncomfortable with the idea of abortion except in extreme circumstances (although on my bad days, when I'm really depressed, I can't help but occasionally wonder if the state of the world itself is one of those extreme circumstances, but I suspect that's just a product of the depression...)

It's interesting...Though I suppose in a morbid kind of way. I don't think there's anything left in the spiritual sense when we're brain dead, as such I don't think it matters what happens to the body. Admittedly I could be wrong. If I am wrong, I wondr if it is perhaps a nightmare for a soul/spirit to be trapped in a disease ravaged body unable to cry out or escape. But that gets into such ideas about consciousness as to whether the brain is needed to sense the physical hardships--pain and suffering. If so, then without the brain she couldn't have sensed what was happening. If not, then the soul could very well have known exactly what was going on and then we're back to the idea of whether she actually wanted things to be the way they were or not. I'm going in circles now, so I think I'll stop...

[IndigoMoon]

I think this story is amazing. I live in Northern Virginia and I hadn't heard about it. I guess that shows me how crazy it can get here sometimes. I think it's amazing that we have the ability to deliver this woman's child even after her passing. I am a mother and I know that I would have wanted my child to have a chance at life, even if mine was over.