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ShamanFeather
August 6th, 2005, 04:14 AM
Ok, I have had this problem in pagan communities, I'm not exactly pagan, but I'm not really accepted into christianity if they knew my full views, but I am getting really pissed at all these ppl saying "christianity this" and christianity that. Pissed. So far int he last two months I've tried hey I'm christian and that bothers me, and I've ranted as its really erally getting to me!!!! Anyone got a better method to deal with this?

:rant: Christianity doesn't focus on who doesn't like them, but apparently paganism does. Who cares! Who really cares! Isn't what you believe more important then who doesn't believe? :flamer: Christianity isn't your religion, fine, but stop making it out like since it isn't yours its so important.

Ok a rant isn't really needed but I am soooo frustrated! Advice please

LadyCelt
August 6th, 2005, 05:51 AM
are you talking about me?


If so, I never degraded anyone on here for being pagan since its not my place. I may say I'm a Christian, espeicaly if the topic deals with it. But, I"m not here to preach Christianity.

charmedkisses1
August 6th, 2005, 05:59 AM
are you saying pagans discuss christianity too much instead of their own beliefs?

:confused:

MerryBe
August 6th, 2005, 07:50 AM
hmm, I guess it's all about Tolerance.

I have had somone tell me to get lost, and that I don't belong here in MW in a PM, because they thought I was a christian.

I just happened to defend something that was said in a bad way about Jesus.
I felt it was offensive to christians and I don't believe in mocking anyone's beliefs or deities.

On the flip side, I have also been on forums that were predominantly christian, and was told go burn in hell, just because of my nic!

In my own humble opinion, MW happens to be much more tolerant towards all faiths than anywhere else I have been.
And if you think I am wrong, then go into a conservative christian forum and announce your true feelings and watch what happens.

The only advice I can give you is that if you feel offended by someone, either tell them how you feel in private, report them, OR, better yet, try to understand that this world is not perfect, and sometimes we have to pick our battles. Not everyone in this world understands what tolerance means.

If the whole world did understand it, we would have Peace on Earth at last.


Not sure if I have helped or not, but I hope you feel a little bit better about it.

Peace, and Bright Blessings,
MerryBe

bbnflpn
August 6th, 2005, 07:53 AM
i think the reason that happens is because there is alot of people that do not accept paganisim as a true/right religion to be apart of. there is alot of people including my self who have been berated about our belifes. i my self try not to bash christianity, i find it hard. almost every christian that i have met (not on this board) have tried in thier hardest to convert, belittle, among other things because they feel that their way is the only way. i do know that not every one is like that, and alot of the christians on this board have been very supportive, and accepting of our views. i can understand how frustrating this can be, but you have to look at the broader picture on this. i dont think that pagans rant about who hates them, its the individuals that cause them to rant that is the problem.

StormVixen
August 6th, 2005, 08:25 AM
Ok, I have had this problem in pagan communities, I'm not exactly pagan, but I'm not really accepted into christianity if they knew my full views, but I am getting really pissed at all these ppl saying "christianity this" and christianity that. Pissed. So far int he last two months I've tried hey I'm christian and that bothers me, and I've ranted as its really erally getting to me!!!! Anyone got a better method to deal with this?

:rant: Christianity doesn't focus on who doesn't like them, but apparently paganism does. Who cares! Who really cares! Isn't what you believe more important then who doesn't believe? :flamer: Christianity isn't your religion, fine, but stop making it out like since it isn't yours its so important.

Ok a rant isn't really needed but I am soooo frustrated! Advice please

i kinda agree... but i do get a laugh from anti-pagan sites... which arent all christian by the way... its not all learning and worshiping or whatever all the time so when im bored and have nothing constructive to do i look for anti-pagan or anti- other stuff sites because they are just soo funny!
i do like friendly arguments with my sister, shes a baptist... most christians are cool... same with all people... i mean you get a few crazy people in every race or religion or whatever...

Jolantru
August 6th, 2005, 09:34 AM
I would say that tolerance goes both ways - and tolerance is not merely lip service, but actually putting into practice.

This is coming from a Christo-Pagan - I still believe in God but I also believe in the Earth Mother (or the Goddess). I know what I believe in would not be accepted in 'normal' circles but ultimately, this is who I am, inside. It is my path, end of story. ;)

I think what many Pagans are so fixated on Christianity is because of a couple of things: They had encountered Christians who set a bad example to all and ended up having a skewed picture of what Christianity actually is.

So, tolerance and the ability to shrug it all off. Think about it, ShamanFeather: Out of the many folks on MW, who would you actually meet offline/real life? And does it really matter what they say in ten years' time?


Cheers,
Jolantru

Protagonist
August 6th, 2005, 12:28 PM
This is pretty much an ongoing issue in the Pagan community. I wrote a huge, long post about it when I first arrived, before I even became Christian. The way I see it, all religions have some kind of perceived adversary, and some Pagans have chosen Christianity as theirs, because they've normally just left it, and bashing it helps affirm their identity. Not terribly kind, but understandable from a societal viewpoint.

Besides, lets be honest. There are some Christian groups (many historical) that deserve bashing and rehashing if in the proper context. I've never understood people blaming the Crusades on modern Christians, though, particularly protestants (though modern Catholics are really no more to blame.)

I also get irked by this odd idea Pagans often have about Christians: that our faith somehow rests with our pastor/church rather than with God. That's just uninformed. Most Christians I know don't even attend the same church regularly, and break with pastoers on a lot of theological issues.

Happy Shrew
August 6th, 2005, 12:29 PM
The anit-Christian bent that some people go off on has been a royal pet peeve for me. I've actually gotten in trouble for yelling at people about it elsewhere.

I don't see anti-Pagan sites of any source as entertainment. When people (particularly forum admins - something that fortunately isn't common practice here) go out of their way to drag them up I see it as a way of dredging for anti-whatever propaganda. And I don't think that's just me, either.

LadyCelt
August 6th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Its not just pagans but others who have a distaste about Christians. Sadly, people can associate a few holier than thous with EVERY dang Christian. Tehre are those who even associate the faith of believing in God and Jesus as these people too.


There are misconceptions about paganism too. I certainly don't know enough on it to be a historian or write books or essays for a living. But, when a friend of mine said something I had to set him straight. I mentioned somethng with paganism. And, he said "don't pagans believe they are gods?"

Maybe he said above God. I think they are Gods. I was like no, not at all. This is something else. I've had people say something about well that isn't good when I mentioned something about an area having a lot of wiccans. I was like not all wiccans are bad. There are a few people who do sorcery and things for their own wickedness, but not everybody.


Now, to who said Christians said they should burn in Hell: The right things to say if they feel this way is I pray for you to find God and Jesus and get to know them and find eternal paradise. I do not wish upon anybody to be damned.


But, wishing Hell upon somebody sure isn't Christ like. It seems people forget about this not judging thing and to take the plank out of your eye before telling another they ahve a spec in theirs.


Even if I was talking to soemobdy who did hexes and vengence spells, I woudln't yell at them that they should burn in Hell. I may tell them I don't know much on it but it seems like a dangerous path and I don't think they'd be safe doing it.


To me, only the Lord truly knows where each person is going. We can think someone is going somewhere, we can wish and pray they'll go to Heaven. But, to tell someone they should go to Hell due to their religious beliefs, well I guess they forget about the Christian martyrs and things that happened when Christianity first appeared to followers and how they were accused of cannibalism.


I'm sure some would yell at me for belonging to a pagan board. I really want my own church and wish I had the money. I'd freely welcome people who are gay or bi, gang members, strippers or prostitutes or even porn stars, and people of other faiths so long as they didn't blasphemy God. If they want to discuss after services or in a debate things then fine so long as its respectful. I could imagine the uproar I'd cause for being a horrible and blasphemous Christian. Then, I'd tell people to look up the gospels and read them, and then get back to me :)

I relaly wish I had the money for my own church. I'd even like to teach a class about relgions and after I research it myself, what things were like before Christianity, before even Judaism.


I think some Christians need to put the Christ back into Christianity and stop being holier than thou and let people live.

MoonDust
August 6th, 2005, 02:00 PM
This is a community built with the idea of sharing ideas and information on spirituality.

Paganism defined is:
-any of various religions other than Christianity or Judaism or Islamism

-Within a European Christian context, paganism is a catch-all term which has come to connote a broad set of not necessarily compatible religious beliefs and practices (see Cult (religion)) of a natural religion (as opposed to a revealed religion of a text), which are usually, but not necessarily, characterized by polytheism and, less commonly, animism. There is little organized "-ism" in paganism.

I’m sorry that you feel you’ve had a hard time on these boards and feel that you must defend your faith, but please understand this is not something only you must deal with. Everyone must do this. No matter what faith they are, people will run in to others who have preconceived notions on their faith and said person is called to defend it. Same goes with your culture, your sex, etc.

This is a Pagan community. We come here to vent, to learn, to lean on each other. If we’ve had a run-in with someone who views our faith as “evil” we’re going to run where we feel safe and vent.

Are there pagans (just as there are those of other faiths) who carry pre-concieved notions on faiths that they do not follow? Yes. But we can not judge a whole group based on a few. If we do, then we’re no better are we?

Christianity doesn't focus on who doesn't like them, but apparently paganism does.
I did grow up in the Christian faith and I can honestly say that there were plenty of times where I heard comments such as “We’re criticized for our faith.” Or “We have a tough road as a Christians in a non-Christian world’ or something to that effect.
What I ended up realizing is that we all feel we must defend our beliefs and who we are to other regardless of what faith we follow.

Imbrium
August 6th, 2005, 07:32 PM
Wow, moondust, good post!

And I also have to disagree with the idea that Christianity doesn't focus on who doesn't like them. I spent the better part of 1/2 of my life as an extremely devout Christian and can say that there is a rather disproportionate focus on all things "non Christlike"...at least from your more fundamental groups.

I also admit that sometimes because of my experiences within the religion that I occasionally need to blow off steam. It's not really intentional, but I've been through a lot of cr...er stuff, and sometimes it's a knee-jerk reaction. I also think that I'm not the only one.

On the flip side of that coin, I do see where you are coming from. I stinks to be critisized, and I still get rankled at the idea that I can't wear a pentagram pendant without occasionally inviting critisizm or dirty looks...so this goes both ways. As Protagonist stated: It's pretty much an ongoing issue within the Pagan community (paraphrased)

argento_occhi
August 7th, 2005, 02:14 AM
It's actually nice to know that a lot of that negative Christian reactions to Pagans doesn't seem as obvious round where I live, but that of course doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Perhaps it's because the Pagan community here is small in itself, and not really active. who knows?

I grew up Christian as well, and my two best friends are also Christian, as is my family, and they're all good people. I think it takes a lot to get to the point where religion (or anything) doesn't come first when you meet someone. To see someone as a human being first, not to judge someone instantly based on their faith, looks, whatever. Tis hard to do.

Argent/Rex

BlackMagicalCat
August 7th, 2005, 02:43 AM
Well,this is a pagan site,and there has always been some friction between /christianity and Paganism,and witchcraft,but If a Christian is allowed to join and post here,then its because of the good graces of the pagans who run this site.If I see Christ being belittled,I wil defend him most of the time,but I think most here are really tolerant.thats what I think,I joined a christian site and they deleted all my posts except for 2 of them.

At least you get the chance to post here,and then get warned,and then banned maybe,but at the christian site,my posts never made it past the moderators,so nobody got to see them,because they wernt christian enough.

So.I count myself blessed to be here.

LadyCelt
August 7th, 2005, 04:46 AM
^^^^^^ this site is more tolerant to me than the Christian boards I"m on at times. the protestant one says I"m going down to evil to go to Mass and consider Catholocism. The Catholic one says the same aobut me if I rejoin my old protestant church and CAhtolocism is the ONLY TRUE WAY.

I'd rather peopel just pray and give thanks to the Lord than bicker. Its so sad really.


I like how this board accepts me being Christian. If someone wants to speak to me on pm debating how I say my faith is the way then fine, but I won't bring it upon them or this board. Its not my place. I realy like how accepting this place seems to differnt faiths. If only the world were like this more often.

MorningDove030202
August 7th, 2005, 06:38 AM
Are we Pagans or are we NeoPagans?

There is a difference.

I do think that an excessive amount of our energy is spent on complaining in general.

Dove




Paganism defined is:
-any of various religions other than Christianity or Judaism or Islamism

dark witch
August 7th, 2005, 09:25 AM
In the end, it doesn't really matter what you say, think, or do as far as other people are concerned. Religion/spirituality is a very personal thing, and most people will strongly defend their beliefs. There are misguided people of all faiths, but you will rarely change their minds.

In the end, do we really know what is right and what is wrong in faith? Just because one believes something to be so, doesn't make it so. Have some tolerance and move on.

I'm constantly surprised at how often I hear Pagans tell of persecution from non-Pagans. In my life, religion or faith doesn't come up that often in mixed groups. I think sometimes Pagans invite judgement from others by bringing up the subject, or wearing a pentagram the size of a saucer around their necks.....

Just my two cents on the subject.

DarkWitch

bbnflpn
August 7th, 2005, 03:23 PM
but wouldnt the same be said of a christian that wears a cross, or has relitous stickers on their car. it goes both ways.

AlAskendir
August 7th, 2005, 03:48 PM
Ok, I have had this problem in pagan communities, I'm not exactly pagan, but I'm not really accepted into christianity if they knew my full views, but I am getting really pissed at all these ppl saying "christianity this" and christianity that. Pissed. So far int he last two months I've tried hey I'm christian and that bothers me, and I've ranted as its really erally getting to me!!!! Anyone got a better method to deal with this?

:rant: Christianity doesn't focus on who doesn't like them, but apparently paganism does. Who cares! Who really cares! Isn't what you believe more important then who doesn't believe? :flamer: Christianity isn't your religion, fine, but stop making it out like since it isn't yours its so important.

Ok a rant isn't really needed but I am soooo frustrated! Advice please

It's about clarity, and the fact that most of us went thru some variety of 'christian' meat grinder before finding whatever path we are on....so, like you we are frustrated by what other people have and continue to express to us about how they believe, feel, and think, only yours in reading, and ours was lived thru, so it's a little more intense and lasts longer. But most pagans get over most of it eventually.

Rudas Starblaze
August 7th, 2005, 03:51 PM
:fofftopic so am i the only christian here who dosent belong to a christian website? _tomatoe_

MoonDust
August 7th, 2005, 05:00 PM
Are we Pagans or are we NeoPagans?

There is a difference.

I do think that an excessive amount of our energy is spent on complaining in general.

Dove
a little of both I would think. Some define themselves as simply Pagan others as Neo-Pagan.
Personally I like Heathen :T

LadyCelt
August 8th, 2005, 04:33 AM
Rudas,

I belong to a coupel Christian forums. One is Catholic and one is any faith with chrsitianity. if you want, ask me to put them in links for you on a pm.

ShamanFeather
August 8th, 2005, 10:16 AM
I think that my post was taken too personally. I am not attacking anyone here and what I like about the boards is if I don't like something I either post or I don't post or I don't look at it. Why participate in something that doesn't go with you? I am not attacking anyone here at Mystic Wicks. I believe tolerance goes both ways and thats why I have been so upset is because in the many in person and email lists and boards and the teaching class I do I have been finding these anti-Christian comments becoming more and more prominent and it is upsetting when you say something and people ignore it and keep ranting. Sure there is hurt but does it have to be brought up every meeting (speaking of one of the groups I go to thank god its been better)

I have been sick the past few days but if I have something to say to someone specific I will say it if it is worthwhile but I will not post a seperate thread to attack anyone I would pm or openly post my opinions if I feel they need to be heard. But due to illness I have not posted nor erad for a while. I hope the other two pages I haven't read of this thread aren't going to harbor any ill feelings toward me as this was not intent.

ShamanFeather
August 8th, 2005, 10:30 AM
Are we Pagans or are we NeoPagans?

There is a difference.

I do think that an excessive amount of our energy is spent on complaining in general.

Dove


I am nto sure what the def of neopagan is, but about your time spent on complaining I agree. I am trying to find a way to direct conversation away from what often feelings like persecuting my beliefs as they feel they are defending theres by simply calling christianity stupid and intolerant. I don't want to complain I want to solve which starts with recognizing what I feel to often be a problem more in my in person meeting groups.

I was baptized and confirmed lutheran. I have combined what ppl call pagan with christianity. I don't understand why the christian bashing is ok because someone else did it to them first? Is it okay to rip someone else off cause you were ripped off first? Or to take out your frustration from the day on someone else who didn't start it with you in the first place? my post wasn't mystic wicks specific I am happy when I see the christian posts, I am happy when I see the pagan and other posts. It is all good.

Karma Chameleon
August 8th, 2005, 10:53 AM
Ok, I have had this problem in pagan communities, I'm not exactly pagan, but I'm not really accepted into christianity if they knew my full views, but I am getting really pissed at all these ppl saying "christianity this" and christianity that. Pissed. So far int he last two months I've tried hey I'm christian and that bothers me, and I've ranted as its really erally getting to me!!!! Anyone got a better method to deal with this?

:rant: Christianity doesn't focus on who doesn't like them, but apparently paganism does. Who cares! Who really cares! Isn't what you believe more important then who doesn't believe? :flamer: Christianity isn't your religion, fine, but stop making it out like since it isn't yours its so important.

Ok a rant isn't really needed but I am soooo frustrated! Advice please


May I sugest that you go and join a atheist forum, you'll find that atheist forums do a heck of a lot more "Christian bashing" than I've even seen on MW or any other pagan forum. And then also go to a Christian one and see how tolerant they are of your beliefs. It's been my experience, even back when I was a Christian, that most all Christian forums even if you do believe in Christ and you do follow the bible to the best of your ability, they will try to tear you to pieces for not believing exactly as they do. I don't know what it is, but it seems like those folks who hang out on Christian forums are the most vicious bunch of "Christians" I've even ran across. :holycow:

And I beg to differ about Christianity not focusing on those who don't like them, most Christians do spend an awful lot of time complaining about being" persecuted for the Lord". Forum wise (that being on Christian forums, not MW), I've found that a lot of them will go out of their way to get "persecuted", they'll post tales of how they went door to door preaching and someone got mad at them, and how it's a glory to the Lord, etc...

A lot of people complain about Christians because they are venting about some encounter they've had with one. And because a lot of them will go out of their way to try to convert people is why in general get annoyed. I haven't seen any Pagans trying to convert people.

Rudas Starblaze
August 8th, 2005, 05:11 PM
Rudas,

I belong to a coupel Christian forums. One is Catholic and one is any faith with chrsitianity. if you want, ask me to put them in links for you on a pm.

nah, that wont be necessary, but thank you for offering. :halohead: i usually get what ever info i need from my brother who is a researcher and office manager at Answers In Genesis.

EponaCapaill
August 12th, 2005, 07:51 PM
Now, to who said Christians said they should burn in Hell: The right things to say if they feel this way is I pray for you to find God and Jesus and get to know them and find eternal paradise. I do not wish upon anybody to be damned.
I, as a Christian, (and maybe some would say this make me NOT Christian) do not pray for non-Christians to find God and Jesus. I believe Pagans HAVE found God(dess). I believe all Gods and Goddesses are aspects of one God. Why pray for something they have already found?

My prayer is for common understanding of each other and that is what I strive for. And it is not ok to bash ANY religion, Christian, Pagan or otherwise.


so am i the only christian here who dosent belong to a christian website?
Nope, I don't belong to one. I would not feel welcome there. I have never felt at home in the church or in a community dedicated to Christianity.

Edit: I just realized that I do belong to a Christian Forum, Christian Witch Gathering. It is not the type of forum you think of when you say Christian Forum though as its name suggests. I'm here far more often than I am there though.