Needing to clear some air!

[lucidfire]

I just was reading something, talking about how witchcraft isn't a religion. I'll be honest, magick may not be a religion, but witchcraft sure is, by definition, and I'll say why I think so:



I am a Witch, devoted to honoring the Goddess and keeping her spirit alive. Religion is more about a certain kind of connection, rather than worship persay. To say it's about worship, is to define it based on religions that have the most political power, when the concept of religion probably existed long before they did. It is a craft, as well as a religion, because people live their lives by this crede, not because somebody told them, but because deep inside of them, they feel it and connect to its form in a way where no other religion may quite do the same for them. I just see different religions as being different kinds of people who connect to the great spirit in their own way, no matter what they call it, or even if they think of it the way I do, i still respect them for it. Even some of my other friends, who sometimes it seems like science is their religion, who am I to say they're wrong? I mean, am I perfect, do I know everything? Hardly..

I just wish people didn't have to define themselves according to the people they hate, because I think they get the worst of those people, they dont' really see them, but maybe that's the point after all. I don't see why you should be afraid though, what could I ever do to harm you? I can't, it's like the thing about something good that happens has to come from within, it works both ways, anythign bad needs to come from yourself too; if you don't want people to hurt you, they can't, but sometimes that's the risk you take to work through our own negative sides and find who we really are, in our purest form (and not what the world's done to us in this life)

loving you all, I probably won't post here again, don't seem to be helping too much, and I can't stand the guilt


:apirate:

[lucidfire]

blessed be.

[lovepoet]

It's a terrible fact, that if you don't have a manifesto or a
drive to proselytize, then you will become defined only by
the vile slurs propagated by your enemies.

Who will speak for her?

[Xois]

I moved this to just talk since it didn't have poetry and I thought more people than visit the poetry forum would see it here...

Cheers
Xois

[bansidhe]

hang in there lucid!!! i really hope your post didnt mean that you werent coming back to mw, cos i for one would miss you!!! who else will support me in the 'faeries do exist' thread?! and you know the truth about walt disney.....
you have nothing to be guilty about so please dont leave!!!

[Xander67]

please dont leave,
it is the different opinions and the fact that we can all share them without ridule and scorn that , that makes this place ROCK!

I think your views are interesting and i respect them as well

[flar7]

tell me the truth about Walt Disney!!!

[lucidfire]

well,
like the time, I'm tough to get rid of. Watch out for the flyer that lurks below ;)

Lovepoet, you do make me think so (!!!)

(**I do feel kind of dumb for posting this in poetry & lit, sorry about that**)

anyways, I'll lurk around I guess,
just trying to devote my energies to more constructive means,
and writing a faery tale, so I'll keep you posted :D

(I'm a bad quitter)

[talamh]

i feel that paganism is more of a spirituality then a "religion", but maybe that's still part of my discomfort with much of contemporary "religion".

To me it seems that religion divides us... whereas spirituality beings us together. One is about what seperates us. The other about what we share . bb talamh

[lucidfire]

funny, that's what Lisa is always telling me :boing: reguarding the difference between spirituality and religion. It makes me wonder sometimes, whether it's less or more, or just different. The thing I notice the most though is it serves the same purpose in the people's lives, but allows them to be a little more open minded, which at the same time, makes defining it that much more difficult; maybe that's its strength though, and not its weakness

[Lunamoth]

I think it's important to note that just as you don't want people telling you that your version of Witchcraft ISN'T a religion, I don't want people telling me that my version of it IS a religion. We fall into the same trap then, don't we? The beautiful thing about paganism is that there is no defined dogma, there is no "sacred book", there is no guru telling us how to live and what is truth and what is not.

You can practise the craft and not worship anything. I think we all know that. And I don't mean just practising spells without praying to a deity, I mean you can work with energies that are around you and not worship them. The definition of a religion is basically a personal or institutionalized system grounded in supernatural belief AND worship. Not either/or, but both. To change this definition...well, why don't we just go around changing definitions of all the words we use and see how well communication works then? They're defined for a reason - for understanding.

And that, I feel, is a valid enough reason to say that I am spiritual, but not religious. And I can still call myself a witch. My prior associations with "mainstream" religions don't enter into it. I feel that there is a difference between the two.

These are my opinions and I don't wish to impose them, just share them. ---Lunamoth

[Epona44]

:shaker:

To me a religion is an organized social structure that is recognized by a society, somewhat like a club.
By that oversimplified definition Wicca would be a religion. Bear with me.
Organized social structures have a place in our lives, and they can give us comfort, as we seek to answer the questions of our souls.
If you think of them in that way, it's a little easier to discard the need for labels and classification.
We are sensitive to the word "religion," because those outside our circle define their beliefs as religion, closely identified with a concept of truth.
We all practice the custom of defining "self" from "others." Couple that with a concept of truth, and the definition of self is more strongly enforced.
Finally, I have reached my point: If you are secure and comfortable with yourSelf there is no need to be uncomfortable with another's perception of you or your beliefs.

"I am not your opinion of me," John Lily.

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by lovepoet
It's a terrible fact, that if you don't have a manifesto or a
drive to proselytize, then you will become defined only by
the vile slurs propagated by your enemies.

Who will speak for her?

Well said, friend, and I agree...it is truly a sad thing.

BB

Rae )0(

[Lunamoth]

Originally posted by Epona44
:shaker:

To me a religion is an organized social structure that is recognized by a society, somewhat like a club.
By that oversimplified definition Wicca would be a religion. Bear with me.
Organized social structures have a place in our lives, and they can give us comfort, as we seek to answer the questions of our souls.
If you think of them in that way, it's a little easier to discard the need for labels and classification.
We are sensitive to the word "religion," because those outside our circle define their beliefs as religion, closely identified with a concept of truth.
We all practice the custom of defining "self" from "others." Couple that with a concept of truth, and the definition of self is more strongly enforced.
Finally, I have reached my point: If you are secure and comfortable with yourSelf there is no need to be uncomfortable with another's perception of you or your beliefs.

"I am not your opinion of me," John Lily.

Ahh...but her original hypothesis was that *Witchcraft* was a religion, not *Wicca* specifically. The two are not precisely the same.

Light,
Lunamoth

[Poppy]

Hello lucidfire
I know what you are going through. I have grown up in a very spiritual household, my parents have had great power, yet I have also grown up in a very secular society, and even more confusingly I am doing a degree in religion,where the non-Christians are looked down on.

Academically Wicca is considered as a branch of New Age spiritualism, or paganism, which is considered to be religious.

Strangely the media has done much for witches, but history has not! in the society I live in people frown, on who I am, or they think I have some great mystical power.

I would like to say to you, that we don't harm anybody, therefore what we practise should not even be criticised. Secondly, some people will always want an excuse to put people down, regardless of belief, looks, sex or race. Thirdly, you should come back, I don't know about anybody else, but i get a loving vibe when i visit this website, there is alot of good here! Fourthly unfortunately we cannot always be as open with people as we would like to be, trust in your friends!!!