more criticism of Christianity allowed?

[BlueMoon13]

Is it just me, or does it seem that when posts show criticism bordering on disrespect to Christianity, they are given far more latitude by adm. and members in general than even an offhand,tongue in cheek remark about another,more "pagan" path is given? I'm not saying this is a planned conspiracy or anything, but I've seen some really unkind things said about Christianity and Christians go by the boards, but make a half a joke about any other path and you get karma taken and reprimanded by moderators?
Is'nt Christianity some else's path,too, or are we as a group being hypocritical :confused:

[indebted]

some people feel it is justified because of the overwhelming number of religious or non-pagan sites where people show themselves to be less than tolerant...sometimes very nastily so.

I don't think it should be allowed here, though. We Christians are not all the same, just as not all pagans are all the same and we should not be bashed for our beliefs.

As for being judged as a Christian by a pagan...that does not make much sense to me since the pagan does not follow my path...just as Christians should not bash pagan's path since the Christian does not follow that path. Just because someone was once a Christian and left that path, does not make them an expert on Christianity and how Christians are "supposed to behave". There are hypocrites in all religions...people who treat others badly in all religions...I have seen some of that here.

It does seem that when our own path is being disrespected, that not enough is done to protect us. Perhaps it is perception...perhaps not...only those charged with upholding the Respect Rule really know.

Personnaly, I choose to believe it is not that those members who bash are intending to do so, but rather that it is out of inconsideration and lack of thought of the impact of their words - why presume intent when you don't have to? Don't get me wrong, there are a couple of members who I believe have ill intent in their hearts...and that is a shame, but overall I think this group is pretty good.

[LacyRoze]

You know, I try to overlook some of the things said about Christians and Christianity, but sometimes there are things said that are truly hurtful. I tend to just let it go most times. I've seen Christians called names, insults thrown at Jesus and the like and I'm amazed. In the time I've been here, a little over a year, never have I insulted anothers God or Goddess, never have I insulted anothers chosen path and I wouldn't dream of doing so. I try to respect everyone's beliefs and opinions. Maybe it's due to the fact there are only a few Christians here that people say things without considering how we Christians will feel about it, I don't know. I do know there are times when I feel unwelcome here and that saddens me. I came to MW to explore and learn and broaden my path, not be criticized or belittled for what I believe. I think sometimes we need to remember there are flesh and blood human beings on the other side of the screen who have feelings and think about what we're posting and show even a tad of consideration for their feelings...

[NiftyWings]

I personally have no issue with the Christian path, and don't thing bashing it is okay.

However, those who harass or mistreat others are leaving themselves open to nasty or ridiculing comments, regardless of whether or not they are Christian, Pagan, or whatever.

I may be wrong, but my impression is that a lot of the remarks are not directed at Christians in general, just the ones who are behaving like morons.

[Valnorran]

This has been my observation as well. It's especially maddening to those of us who don't restrict ourselves to Christians and like to make fun of everybody!
Seriously, though, I have to agree that I've seen things said about Christians that would never have been accepted if they had been said about any other religion.

[RowanMegaera]

Personally, I refrain from bashing any group as a general rule. Individuals, on the other hand, are fair game dependant upon their actions.

[Athena-Nadine]

This has been my observation as well. It's especially maddening to those of us who don't restrict ourselves to Christians and like to make fun of everybody!
Seriously, though, I have to agree that I've seen things said about Christians that would never have been accepted if they had been said about any other religion.

*...nods...* I agree. I have seen a good amount of hypocrisy in the 3+ years I have been a member here. I have noticed that some of those who scream loudest about the need to respect and tolerate all paths seem to feel that those sentiments don't apply to Christianity. Of course, the second someone complains about the willful ignorance of a certain group of people who call themselves Wiccan, half the board jumps down his/her throat for "bashing" someone else's path. It's a huge double standard.

I do not blame the Admins, however. They can in no way keep up with every single thread here. Pagan, Buddist, Christian, whathaveyou, if a post is reported, they do treat it fairly. At least as far as I've seen.

[DragonsChest]

You know, I try to overlook some of the things said about Christians and Christianity, but sometimes there are things said that are truly hurtful. I tend to just let it go most times. I've seen Christians called names, insults thrown at Jesus and the like and I'm amazed. In the time I've been here, a little over a year, never have I insulted anothers God or Goddess, never have I insulted anothers chosen path and I wouldn't dream of doing so. I try to respect everyone's beliefs and opinions. Maybe it's due to the fact there are only a few Christians here that people say things without considering how we Christians will feel about it, I don't know. I do know there are times when I feel unwelcome here and that saddens me. I came to MW to explore and learn and broaden my path, not be criticized or belittled for what I believe. I think sometimes we need to remember there are flesh and blood human beings on the other side of the screen who have feelings and think about what we're posting and show even a tad of consideration for their feelings...

Sometimes I feel this way, too. :dis: I've never spoken ill about anyone's path, but Christians are always in season.

[BlueMoon13]

...... I think sometimes we need to remember there are flesh and blood human beings on the other side of the screen who have feelings and think about what we're posting and show even a tad of consideration for their feelings...
Well said. Once something's out there, you can't get it back, and I've been guilty of doing it, if even in only a joking way :ggrief: What I forget, is that the type written word cannot convey body language or facial expressions, or a tone of voice that would tell someone in person that you're only pulling their leg :foopsies:

[Nighthawk]

I think because this is forst and foremost a 'pagan' board, some pople see it as their tool for this. On a 'Christian' board...well, many of them, if you are not a fundie, you get burned.. so, I see the reactive force in place. Not saying it is right.. but I see how the dynamics could work. Myself, hard to bother me with a generalization... Sorry guys. I think people get frustrated...

[Happy Shrew]

Well everyone remembers their ingroup and outgroup biases, right?

It ain't right, but it's extremely hard to avoid. Unless you try to remain groupless like me.

[BlueMoon13]

Well everyone remembers their ingroup and outgroup biases, right?

It ain't right, but it's extremely hard to avoid. Unless you try to remain groupless like me.
You're not groupless....you're just your own clique! :heybaby:

[Yvonne Belisle]

By the same token I have seen the admins and staff attack people for christian bashing. Part of it is are there any admins online, has the thread been reported and by how many, is it someone they know didn't mean it as a bash. Many times they try to resolve things behind the scenes and we may not know about them. Sometimes they are just swamped with posts that need to be looked at. They are only human and we all make mistakes.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I hate equally. There are certain things I despise about a lot of religions. This includes Christianity and Paganism. Oh and for the record, Pagans can openly ridicule, reject, make fun of, hate, just as much, equally, and sometimes more than a lot of Pagans believe Christians do. I don't mind poking a little fun at Christianity for example. But if you like it you have to be able to take it as well, and not whine and bitch. That would be a bit hypocritical (which is quite popular amongst both Pagans and Christians).

[Flaire-FireStar]

By the same token I have seen the admins and staff attack people for christian bashing. Part of it is are there any admins online, has the thread been reported and by how many, is it someone they know didn't mean it as a bash. Many times they try to resolve things behind the scenes and we may not know about them. Sometimes they are just swamped with posts that need to be looked at. They are only human and we all make mistakes.


That's true.
If it's recent, then I haven't seen any reports on it.

[Khuinaset]

This has been my observation as well. It's especially maddening to those of us who don't restrict ourselves to Christians and like to make fun of everybody!
Seriously, though, I have to agree that I've seen things said about Christians that would never have been accepted if they had been said about any other religion.


*...nods...* I agree. I have seen a good amount of hypocrisy in the 3+ years I have been a member here. I have noticed that some of those who scream loudest about the need to respect and tolerate all paths seem to feel that those sentiments don't apply to Christianity. Of course, the second someone complains about the willful ignorance of a certain group of people who call themselves Wiccan, half the board jumps down his/her throat for "bashing" someone else's path. It's a huge double standard.

I do not blame the Admins, however. They can in no way keep up with every single thread here. People, Buddist, Christian, whathaveyou, if a post is reported, they do treat it fairly. At least as far as I've seen.

I totally agree with Athena_Nadine and Valnorran! I've seen sooooo many people complain about "equality" and "prejudice" only to turn right around and go "OMG I can't believe what those EVIL NASTY witch-killing Christians are up to again!!!!" It's like they have their own Christian version of the evil nasty Satan-worshipping baby-eating witches. I'm not going to deny that fundie Christians don't drive me up the wall, but so does hypocrisy.

[Valnorran]

I totally agree with Athena_Nadine and Valnorran! I've seen sooooo many people complain about "equality" and "prejudice" only to turn right around and go "OMG I can't believe what those EVIL NASTY witch-killing Christians are up to again!!!!" It's like they have their own Christian version of the evil nasty Satan-worshipping baby-eating witches. I'm not going to deny that fundie Christians don't drive me up the wall, but so does hypocrisy.
Sometimes referred to as the "More Persecuted Than Thou" Syndrome.
It's a lot easier for weaker spirits to see themselves as "good" if they have an adversary. They have the option of either slaying their personal dragon or being martyred by it. They get to be either the hero or the victim, and playing the victim means you get the power and gift of sympathy.

[BlueMoon13]

By the same token I have seen the admins and staff attack people for christian bashing. Part of it is are there any admins online, has the thread been reported and by how many, is it someone they know didn't mean it as a bash. Many times they try to resolve things behind the scenes and we may not know about them. Sometimes they are just swamped with posts that need to be looked at. They are only human and we all make mistakes.
I'm not disagreeing by any means, no doubt it's a huge undertaking. I've just noticed that,FOR EXAMPLE, make a little joking reference to one particular path being less than man-friendly IN GENERAL and a person gets stomped on immediately,whereas I've seen far less than repectful remarks made about Christians or Christianity go by without a word. Is it perhaps that,being Christian, they turn the other cheek (not kidding) and are less likely to complain, or that not being,and perhaps never having been Christians, some people,including staff, just don't notice it? Not being a Druid, I'm not sure what would be insulting to a Druid,for instance.... _tsk_
BTW, I'm not a Christian myself so I don't have a personal dog in this hunt, it was just an observation _inabox_

[DragonsChest]

Most of the time it's just not worth the trouble to report each and every little "slight". It's not that I'm turning the other cheek, it's that I don't feel the person is always worth my effort to smack up side the head with the manners trout.

I try not to be one of those whiners who runs to "mommy" everytime "billy" says something mean to me. I get over it and carry on.

[BlueMoon13]

:thewave:

[LacyRoze]

I tend to try and give people the benefit of the doubt, that they don't realize what they're saying could be hurtful or disrespectful. I also remind myself that I don't know what kind of experiences they have had with Christians. To me it is just not worth starting a big fuss over, most of the time...:heybaby:

[mol]

By the same token I have seen the admins and staff attack people for christian bashing.

We were just accused of being too Christian friendly about 2 weeks ago. Apparently we were attacking Pagans then...now we are going after the Christians?! _pounce_

Folks. Report posts. If you don't report it...then nothing is going to happen. Really, we can't read everything.

[Valkie]

We were just accused of being too Christian friendly about 2 weeks ago. Apparently we were attacking Pagans then...now we are going after the Christians?! _pounce_
.

:lol:

Honestly, I never seem to see the "chistian bashing" or the "pagan bashing". I just see them as discussions about the other religion. I just can't figure out when a discussion suddenly becomes a bash, so I try to stay out of the ones that start to wander into the grey.

[BlueTicona]

Is it just me, or does it seem that when posts show criticism bordering on disrespect to Christianity, they are given far more latitude by adm. and members in general than even an offhand,tongue in cheek remark about another,more "pagan" path is given? I'm not saying this is a planned conspiracy or anything, but I've seen some really unkind things said about Christianity and Christians go by the boards, but make a half a joke about any other path and you get karma taken and reprimanded by moderators?
Is'nt Christianity some else's path,too, or are we as a group being hypocritical :confused:


I've noticed this as well, although some people need to remember...a number [no of factual number] of the mw community I'm sure come from xian backgrounds. They feal before they fully take in a different Path of life they must do whatever they can in their own eyes to "dismiss and diminish" anything about the said topic. Diminish that topic to near-nothingness while trying to make certain that their own Path is truly one that they want for themselves, [or to seek guidance on a like Path.]

[BlueTicona]

We were just accused of being too Christian friendly about 2 weeks ago. Apparently we were attacking Pagans then...now we are going after the Christians?! _pounce_

Folks. Report posts. If you don't report it...then nothing is going to happen. Really, we can't read everything.



OH GREAT AND HI MOLE...

I think some like me [personally] are afraid to report posts because when I do occassionally see one I'm afraid i'll be made to look like to the admins [if even only in their mind] "argh..another reported post by blue".

Otherwise, I would report every once in a while when i see one.

[SilentDreams]

I've noticed it as well. I don't have any reason to explain why. I really say few things about christians or other paths on here. If I do its in the chat and its a joke and trust me I probably joke about pagans more than christians lol. But I see nothing wrong with some light-hearted joking from time to time. But what I've seen here at times goes beyond what I'd ever say and I'm always prepaired to apologize if I've offended someone.

[arctic splash]

Open-minded pagans should read Matthew Fox and John O'Donohue.

[Grey]

*Sighs* there will always be bashing on something... it seems to be part of what humans are. Ive often had some heated discussions with other pagans about their treatments of the christian faith. How can we expect to be given rights to our faiths and ways of life if we dont acknowledge and give them to others... especially the majority of others *in the US*?

*Shrugs* But then I also feel that jokes and such things should be taken as just that - jokes. And if youve had a problem with a certain group, any group, and your complaining then people should have the presence of mind to understand your talking about the people you just were influence by and not unduly trying to stereotype. Somehow people seem to constantly miss that.

[indebted]

We were just accused of being too Christian friendly about 2 weeks ago. Apparently we were attacking Pagans then...now we are going after the Christians?! _pounce_

Folks. Report posts. If you don't report it...then nothing is going to happen. Really, we can't read everything.

But you said you were watching us.......does that mean the big eye in the sky is sleeps sometimes?

*begins to think of things to do*

You're right though...with as many people here as there are, it would be like herding cats to keep everyone in line.

[indebted]

But what I've seen here at times goes beyond what I'd ever say and I'm always prepaired to apologize if I've offended someone.

unfortunately, some people are way too ready to be offended...

[mol]

I think some like me [personally] are afraid to report posts because when I do occassionally see one I'm afraid i'll be made to look like to the admins [if even only in their mind] "argh..another reported post by blue".

Well, then let me calm your fears! We never go *ugh* another reported post by _____. Well, except for Flaire. But, thats why I made her a Super Mod. :)

So, anyways...report the posts. Go for it. The worst that will happen is...nothing. That's right. Nothing! If we don't feel the report is warranted then we will just pass it by. No way will this be a bad mark for the reporter! And, hey, this is MW...its usually not so bad for the person being reported.

[EponaCapaill]

Most of the time it's just not worth the trouble to report each and every little "slight". It's not that I'm turning the other cheek, it's that I don't feel the person is always worth my effort to smack up side the head with the manners trout.

I try not to be one of those whiners who runs to "mommy" everytime "billy" says something mean to me. I get over it and carry on.
What she said.

[Druchii]

Well, then let me calm your fears! We never go *ugh* another reported post by _____. Well, except for Flaire. But, thats why I made her a Super Mod. :)



Flaire is just cranky, and probably just shoots the monitor when she gets into "SuperModMode"...
:lol:

( I am soooo dead for that comment ) :shot:

[Flaire-FireStar]

Flaire is just cranky, and probably just shoots the monitor when she gets into "SuperModMode"...
:lol:

( I am soooo dead for that comment ) :shot:

But I love my monitor! <3

[Rudas Starblaze]

i just wish that when someone makes a comment about christianity they would specify which denomination it is they are bashing since there is alot to chose from.

[arctic splash]

i just wish that when someone makes a comment about christianity they would specify which denomination it is they are bashing since there is alot to chose from.

I was going to say the same thing but my browser did something strange and I lost my original post. There are so many interpretations of Christian theology. Some of them I dislike, and some of them I think are pretty cool (though the ones I think are coolest tend to be less popular). We may have a bad experience with the Christians we meet, but they do not represent Christianity as a whole. There are life-affirming, tolerant, compassionate interpretations of the Christian mythos, and there are destructive and intolerant interpretations too.

Christianity isn't going away (and in fact, fundamentalist Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world). I think it's futile to bash Christianity in general (and the more I learn about the variety of Christian belief and practice, the less inclined I am to put Christianity in a box). Respectful criticism of particular trends or ideas, certainly, but not "Christianity." A better use of our energy IMO would be to encourage those interpretations of Christianity that tolerate other paths, that encourage mindful living in this world rather than escapist nihilism (e.g. take environmental concerns seriously rather than polluting and raping the world's resources because "the world's gonna end anyway.")

Such paths do exist and they *are* Christian. I've heard people here say there are certain ways Christianity can't be interpreted, because Christianity is inherently a literal rather than mythological tradition. That in itself is an interpretation of Christianity, and I say it's only true if you interpret it that way. I say Christianity, just like paganism, can evolve, and change, and grow for the better. There are no limits to what it can be. There can be new Christianities just as there can be new paganisms. What kind of wonderful nurturing future are we deterring if we force Christianity into a procrustean bed?

In previous threads I've found that some people will go to great lengths to show that, if something that comes out of Christianity they find reasonable and beneficial, it's not really Christian. I think this is ridiculous. Let's let Christianity evolve. Let the Christianity of the future be unrestricted by the Christianity of the past. Let's all grow and learn, and let's encourage the positive trends coming out of Christianity, rather than bashing them along with everything else Christian. That's at the very least the more practical way to go about changing the world.

Again I think if openminded pagans read John O'Donohue and Matthew Fox some of us would be much less likely to judge Christianity as a whole. I also urge openminded non-pagans to read Margot Adler's Drawing Down the Moon. My idealism leads me to hope that if we read these books with an open mind we can learn a lot from each other.

[Rudas Starblaze]

yeah! what M.D. said! :thumbsup:

[Bethra]

So is it ok if I just bash everyone? :lol:

Honestly folks regilious bashing isn't really me but I do like a bit of frivolous bashing just genraly anyway. But then hey I love a good argument :lol:

[Rudas Starblaze]

So is it ok if I just bash everyone? :lol:

Honestly folks regilious bashing isn't really me but I do like a bit of frivolous bashing just genraly anyway. But then hey I love a good argument :lol:

when i was a kid i used to go to chucky cheeses and bash those rodent looking thingys! does that count?

[la tortuga]

Is it just me, or does it seem that when posts show criticism bordering on disrespect to Christianity, they are given far more latitude by adm. and members in general than even an offhand,tongue in cheek remark about another,more "pagan" path is given? I'm not saying this is a planned conspiracy or anything, but I've seen some really unkind things said about Christianity and Christians go by the boards, but make a half a joke about any other path and you get karma taken and reprimanded by moderators?
Is'nt Christianity some else's path,too, or are we as a group being hypocritical :confused:


I've got absolutely nothing against Christianity, as a religion. I just don't like the taste I've come to know so very well when it's crammed down my throat constantly.

But that isn't the fault of the religion, it's just some of the people involved in it tend to be a bit cruel, and that is my only knock on it, and that's usually all I ever do say.

I just try to avoid things I don't prefer talking about, and usually end up steering clear of things.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

What is the line between a harmless poking for fun and something discriminatory? People have different sensitivity levels and what may be a harmless joke to one person may be a hateful jab to another.

[Ninjakitten]

What is the line between a harmless poking for fun and something discriminatory? People have different sensitivity levels and what may be a harmless joke to one person may be a hateful jab to another.


It's because of that why I usually don't take bashes "against" Christianity (meaning serious or not) seriously. I usually look at the whole of a person's posts or I look at how something is said. If it's a blatantly obvious attempt at devaluing my beliefs as a Christian, then I might say something. It usually takes quite a bit of serious button pushing before I'd personally contact an administrator, but then I'm also not typical... well, just not typical anything really. I didn't grow up a Christian (despite what my mom likes to claim) and chose it in my adulthood from a point where I had previously been something of a Christian-faith basher. I never bashed individual Christians, or I would have alienated many friends, but I didn't respect the religion as a whole because "they were all about causing Inquisitions and Crusades, and subjugating indigenous peoples" and whathaveyou. I almost never voiced my opinion on that I hated... the only religion I wasn't willing to be open-minded about.

I guess I'm so dang open-minded that I don't take offense when someones limited experiences draw them to the conclusion that a system is bad. I do take offense when someone tries to claim that I'm responsible for something my group's predicessors did when I'm only loosely connected by a label to what they ever did, and certainly not by the heart of the system itself, in this case it's supposed to be about the Christ and his ministry and salvation. I leave it to faith that the Divine will show people the truth about my faith, and don't usually let the slander and libel get to me.

[healeri2]

I personally chose this site over other boards because people have more freedom to speak their minds here, whether it be positive or negative. I found other boards to be so "big brother" like, that nobody could actually speak their minds about how they feel. Now I know there is a line, when speaking ones opinion goes too far and becomes down right nasty, but having freedom to explore one's opinions and have debates without constantly feeling like one is walking on egg shells, is a good thing about this site.

I remember other boards I used to go to were crazy. The moderators were always editing peoples posts, telling users what they could and couldn't say. It became almost cult like, where users had to fit a specific mold in order to contribute anything. It almost seemed that the site was filled with more posts by moderators talking about rules than actual posts with information and opinions.

Bashing isn't good, but a healthy dose of speaking ones mind isn't a bad thing. I guess it's easy for me to say too because I think all religions are one religion, just different reflections of the same thing. Everything is everything.

[Isil Darkmoon]

Is it just me, or does it seem that when posts show criticism bordering on disrespect to Christianity, they are given far more latitude by adm. and members in general than even an offhand,tongue in cheek remark about another,more "pagan" path is given? I'm not saying this is a planned conspiracy or anything, but I've seen some really unkind things said about Christianity and Christians go by the boards, but make a half a joke about any other path and you get karma taken and reprimanded by moderators?
Is'nt Christianity some else's path,too, or are we as a group being hypocritical :confused:

The boards are simply TOO BIG for us to read 100% of the posts by ourself. We probably catch about 25% of problems totally on our own--we RELY on users to report the rest.

If it's a borderline case, statistically we get a lot more reports about pagan-bashing than Christian-bashing, because signifigantly more members are Pagan than Christian. It's human nature to take notice--and then in this case report--for someone to more readily report something they see as a slight to their own path than they are to report a post on a religion they don't follow.

If there are cases you see as borderline towards Christianity, PLEASE report them to us. I promise we'll look at them and give them equal consideration as quasi-pagan-bashing posts. We don't want bashing of ANY kind. PLEASE bring these things to our attention as they happen, or the odds are we won't moderate it--not because we don't care or are "going easier", but because we won't SEE it.

[BeachWitch]

Mystic Wicks has been a community of individuals who examine thier faith and celebrate their spirituality. It has only been recently that the site has had a shift in demographics. The fact is, a Christian on a Pagan message board should be well prepared to show that their faith is examined very well. Otherwise, their only purpose on the board is to stir up trouble and cause strife. It is an inherantly Pagan trait to engage in self examination.

If a post is "bashing" people, regardless of faith, it should be reported. A post that is examining spirituality should be engaged in. If a Christian visiting this board has no desire to examine their faith, the question must be asked: what the heck are you doing here?

As for one group being more "bashed" than another, how about the posts asking if a path is "valid"?

[arctic splash]

Mystic Wicks has been a community of individuals who examine thier faith and celebrate their spirituality. It has only been recently that the site has had a shift in demographics. The fact is, a Christian on a Pagan message board should be well prepared to show that their faith is examined very well. Otherwise, their only purpose on the board is to stir up trouble and cause strife. It is an inherantly Pagan trait to engage in self examination.

Very interesting perspective. I have no clue about the demographics though. Have a lot of Christians joined recently?

I do think self-examination is a very good thing, but I'm having trouble relating some of what you say to my experience here. No one here has ever asked me penetrating questions prompting me to show that my faith is well-examined. It seems we have a right to be as private or as public about our faith (and our self-examination) as we choose. I don't really see how not self-examining necessarily leads to trouble and strife. But maybe I'm not understanding you properly. :)

[ap Dafydd]

I don't pretend to be unbiased and never have and can't quite see why Christians would want to be on this supposedly Pagan site any more than Osama bin Laden would want to turn up at a Jewish wedding.

I have to say that it always gives me a sick feeling when I come across people praising Jesus in my face, part of being a Pagan is explicitly rejecting that sort of thing. Don't know if I'm one of the folk considered to have been rude, I certainly try to avoid explicitly Christian threads just in case I lose it. But occasionally I will respond to something which I find particularly offensive, and dont' feel the need to apologise for so doing.

I'll leave the rest in the hands of the mods.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[LacyRoze]

Can a christian not be interested in learning about other's paths? Can a christian not be interested in learning about herbs and their uses, oils, astrology, dream interpretation? Just because I am christian does not mean my mind is closed to others beliefs and religions. I'm not here to try and "convert" anyone or change anyone's mind about their chosen path. Never have I "damned" anyone for their beliefs or preached to anyone that my way is the only way. I am here for me, to learn and grow and expand on what I believe. I'm sorry that you feel I have no right to be here but I feel I do have the right and as long as I'm being respectful of others and their beliefs, I'll continue to gather all the knowledge I can from MW....

[BeachWitch]

It seems we have a right to be as private or as public about our faith (and our self-examination) as we choose. I don't really see how not self-examining necessarily leads to trouble and strife. But maybe I'm not understanding you properly. :)

You have the right to be private, but if you feel that way, why are you on a message board which is so obviously geared towards Pagan Spirituality and Alternative (to Christianity) Faiths if you don't want to discuss your beleifs?

Christianity is going to be discussed on this board by individuals who have been harmed by the religion and the followers of the religion.

As I said, posts that "bash" individuals need to be reported imediately, posts which chalenge the Christian faith and the tenants of the faith are not wrong and should not be moderated or reported.

This post is a perfect example of a Chrisitan causing strife on a Pagan board - trying to moderate discussions of Christianity by non-Christians on a non-Christian board..... seems like troling to me.

[BlueMoon13]

:achillpil :rubhead: That's because you are open minded, and want to see what's going on in the world around you. There have been a FEW folks who had been here making asses of themselves, and they come and go, and you have not been one of them. If I may say so, anyone is welcome so long as they respect the rule, which as far as I can tell, you personally always have.


Sorry folks, did'nt mean to start a you know what storm, I was just making an observation :imout:

[BeachWitch]

Can a christian not be interested in learning about other's paths? Can a christian not be interested in learning about herbs and their uses, oils, astrology, dream interpretation? Just because I am christian does not mean my mind is closed to others beliefs and religions. I'm not here to try and "convert" anyone or change anyone's mind about their chosen path. Never have I "damned" anyone for their beliefs or preached to anyone that my way is the only way. I am here for me, to learn and grow and expand on what I believe. I'm sorry that you feel I have no right to be here but I feel I do have the right and as long as I'm being respectful of others and their beliefs, I'll continue to gather all the knowledge I can from MW....
I never said Chritians have no right to be here and insinuating that I did is quite inflammetory.

As I said, if someone bashes a PERSON in a post, then it needs to be reported immediately. That type of behavior violates the Rede and it violates the code of conduct for any Pagan who is in a coven or organized circle. I believe the majority of organized Pagan groups have a clause for membership which reads something along the lines of:

As with members of other religions, our personal conduct is a reflection on The Craft. Members of **** are expected to lead lives that will not bring dishonor or negative publicity to our religion: obey the laws of the land, be good spouses, parents and citizens and refrain from using malefic magic in the name of The Craft.

Discussing Christianity with a critical perspective, relating personal experiences with Christians that were negative or hurtful, and challenging the obvious imbalances of the tenets which constitute the basis of Christian belief are not considered bashing.

[Ben Trismegistus]

It's also important to point out that there is a difference between reasonable criticism and "bashing". After all, it's not the responsibility of the admins to assure that everyone agrees on everything. Many of our most interesting discussions revolve around disagreements, and trying to find common ground.

So, for instance, I wouldn't consider it bashing to point out that it is intellectually dishonest for a fundamentalist Christian who believes that the Bible is the inviolate Word of God to both denounce homosexuality and eat bacon (seeing as the law against homosexuality appears in the same chapter in Deuteronomy as the kosher laws), or that it is intellectually dishonest for a Wiccan who holds a "no exceptions" belief in the "Harm None" portion of the Wiccan Rede to eat meat (considering that the cow is in fact harmed in the making of your cheeseburger).

Those are clear criticisms backed up by reasons. Bashing would be to say "all Christians are dogmatic judgmental morons" or "all Pagans are smelly, flaky idiots".

I hope this helps.

[LacyRoze]

BeachWitch, I'm sorry you thought that post was directed at you, as it wasn't. It was in response to Ap Dafydd saying he couldn't see why a christian would want to be on this site...

[BeachWitch]

Whoops, sorry Lacy, I thought you were speaking to me. All Apologies.

PS: might wat to use the "reply with quote" in the furture, especialy when the topic has many pages, keeps us al on the right track ;)

[LacyRoze]

Whoops, sorry Lacy, I thought you were speaking to me. All Apologies.

PS: might wat to use the "reply with quote" in the furture, especialy when the topic has many pages, keeps us al on the right track ;)

Dually noted!!! :flowers:

[indebted]

Can a christian not be interested in learning about other's paths? Can a christian not be interested in learning about herbs and their uses, oils, astrology, dream interpretation? Just because I am christian does not mean my mind is closed to others beliefs and religions. I'm not here to try and "convert" anyone or change anyone's mind about their chosen path. Never have I "damned" anyone for their beliefs or preached to anyone that my way is the only way. I am here for me, to learn and grow and expand on what I believe. I'm sorry that you feel I have no right to be here but I feel I do have the right and as long as I'm being respectful of others and their beliefs, I'll continue to gather all the knowledge I can from MW....

Amen Sister!

[DragonsChest]

You go, Lacy! When someone asks me "why would I want to be on a Pagan oriented board", sometimes that can morph into "Why are you here", to "You don't belong here because you are Christian, this is Our board". Not always a logical progression, but somewhat understandable, as it's very hard to fathom the speaker's intent from just words - you miss so much by the lack of body language.

It's like just because we're Christian we have no world view outside of our church or preacher's words -- that's so not me! My "church" is my inner self and that's always striving to be perfected.

I love it here, and have learned so much! I hope others don't mind that I'm here, just because I'm not Pagan. (although, I've had PMs from folks who say that as they've read my posts from joining to now, that they doubt I'm far from it! I take that as a compliment - means I'm growing.)

_pounce_ MW!

[equinox2]

Hi all!

I’ve been watching this thread since it started – interesting discussion!

It is inevitable that Christianity will be discussed here, where most of us are in the US.

After all, the US population is about 75% Christian, so most of us used to be Christian.

Plus, Christianity saturates life here in the US – you can’t even drive down the highway without getting Christian messages. Plus, many fundamentalist Christians circulate ideas that Christians are singled out and persecuted in the United States, even though a strong majority of Americans are Christian, so that makes Christians often very sensitive to any open discussion of Christianity, especially since they are often only used to praise being allowed when Christianity is being discussed. Add the bad experiences many of us have had with some Christians, and it adds up to a recipe for complaints about Christianity being bashed on a pagan open discussion board like MW.

There is a balance needed. On one hand, we need to be able to discuss ideas openly, and on the other, people should never be personally attacked.

Many people have pointed this out. The views and actions of many Christians, as well as the Bible itself, have many ideas that deserve critical examination and discussion.
For instance,

Healeri2 wrote:

I personally chose this site over other boards because people have more freedom to speak their minds here, whether it be positive or negative. ….I remember other boards I used to go to were crazy. The moderators were always editing peoples posts, telling users what they could and couldn't say.

I agree. I’ve been heavily censored on some boards. On one Christian board, my posts were edited and I was nearly banned just because I mentioned “Gnosticism” (which is even Christian itself) when a Christian described their beliefs.

BeachWitch and Ben T also have mentioned this balance:
Beach witch
If a post is "bashing" people, regardless of faith, it should be reported.
Discussing Christianity with a critical perspective, relating personal experiences with Christians that were negative or hurtful, and challenging the obvious imbalances of the tenets which constitute the basis of Christian belief are not considered bashing.

Ben T wrote:
Those are clear criticisms backed up by reasons. Bashing would be to say "all Christians are dogmatic judgmental morons" or "all Pagans are smelly, flaky idiots".

The way I try to remember the balance is that people deserve respect, but ideas aren’t people, and must earn respect.

Religious tolerance means that all religions have a right to a fair discussion, based on objective criteria – NOT that all religions have a free guarantee of approval and praise. Ideas (including religious ideas) can and should be condemned if they are harmful. Every person has inherent worth, and must be respected - but ideas aren't people, and so ideas have to earn respect.

The alternative is impossible - you cannot respect all ideas, because they contradict each other. You cannot respect the idea that "all people have inherent worth" while also respecting the idea that "those damn ni@@ers should all be shot". Thus, it is people that deserve respect, not ideas, which must earn respect.

I think that belief systems that do not allow people to hold views that may be considered “heresy” are harmful. As such, it is abrogating my responsibility as a human and a father to say “yeah, harmful beliefs are fine”. It is failing in my responsibility to help make this earth a better place for all of our children, and their children to fail to point out harmful ideas, whether those ideas are advanced by a Christian, or anyone else (or even if they are found in "sacred" scripture, such as the Bible).

LacyRose wrote:

Just because I am christian does not mean my mind is closed to others beliefs and religions.
Yep. There are millions of tolerant, open minded Christians such as you. However, there are also millions of fundamentalist Christians who aren’t interested in learning about other religions. They take verses of the Bible such as this one as a guide:

2 Cor 6 :14

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. … what fellowship can light have with darkness? … What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. …
Therefore come out from them
and be separate, says the Lord.
There are many other verses like that too, such as 2 John 1:10.


Never have I … preached to anyone that my way is the only way.

I know, and I enjoy your company. In fact, your presence is reassuring. There are again, many millions of Christians who do indeed see Christianity (and often their specific Christianity) as the one only way. From an objective reading of the Bible, I have to agree with them that they are right about what the Bible says. For example, the Bible says:
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Dually noted!!!

Please excuse my minor grammar correction – you probably mean “duly noted” (= properly noted), not “Dually noted” (=noted twice).


I'm not here to try and "convert" anyone or change anyone's mind about their chosen path.
As before, this is another reason why it’s cool to have you around. Many Christians do indeed come here specifically to try to convert. Again, it’s probably because the read and obey the Bible, which says things like:

Mt 28:19

Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them … and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

MD talked about the evolution of Christianity. I agree, and seeing it branch into many different forms is analogous to evolution, just like languages, other religions, and even chain letters. Data for over 100 years has shown that the fundamentalist types of Christianity are growing, while the moderate, tolerant types of Christianity are shrinking. We could talk about all the data and possible reasons for this if anyone cares, but suffice it to say that most of Christianity is currently fundamentalist, and the future of Christianity appears to be fundamentalist. This is all the more reason to cherish tolerant Christians like Dragon’s Chest, Lady Celt, Ninjakitten, Azzeenasman, and the many others of our friends here at mystic wicks.

Dragon’s Chest wrote:


My "church" is my inner self and that's always striving to be perfected.

I love it here, and have learned so much! I hope others don't mind that I'm here, just because I'm not Pagan.

I certainly don’t mind you here, the variety is great! This board is open to all, not just Pagans. In fact, some Pagans might not consider me Pagan, since I have a naturalistic worldview. In the same way, many of the Christians here aren’t considered “Christian” by many other Christians in the outside world, and so MW is a haven for them to be completely open about their spirituality.

Love and Light-

[arctic splash]

You have the right to be private, but if you feel that way, why are you on a message board which is so obviously geared towards Pagan Spirituality and Alternative (to Christianity) Faiths if you don't want to discuss your beleifs?

I think you can be open to learning about others beliefs, and be respectful about them, regardless of whether you choose to discuss your own beliefs. There are a lot of reasons people join MW. Some Christians are interested in astrology, tarot, herbs and oils, as LacyRoze says, and this is a great place to learn. It's a great place to learn about others' beliefs. It is in general a very accepting community. We have various reasons for being here, whether we're pagan or not, and as long as we're respectful, I think it's our own business why we're here.


As I said, posts that "bash" individuals need to be reported imediately, posts which chalenge the Christian faith and the tenants of the faith are not wrong and should not be moderated or reported.

I just think, if we feel offended by something, report it. As Isil Darkmoon says, anything that's borderline, report it. Then it's no longer in our hands and we can chill about it. Just relax and enjoy the site, let the admins make the judgements. :)


This post is a perfect example of a Chrisitan causing strife on a Pagan board - trying to moderate discussions of Christianity by non-Christians on a non-Christian board..... seems like troling to me.

Are you talking about my post that you quoted or BlueMoon's original post? In any case I identify as Pagan and I can't imagine how my post could be seen as causing strife. As far as I know BlueMoon13 doesn't identify as Christian either, and I thought she made a very good point. Christianity is a path. Actually there are many Christian paths. They deserve the same respect and consideration as a pagan path... not more, not less.

[Athena-Nadine]

You have the right to be private, but if you feel that way, why are you on a message board which is so obviously geared towards People Spirituality and Alternative (to Christianity) Faiths if you don't want to discuss your beleifs?

Christianity is going to be discussed on this board by individuals who have been harmed by the religion and the followers of the religion.

As I said, posts that "bash" individuals need to be reported imediately, posts which chalenge the Christian faith and the tenants of the faith are not wrong and should not be moderated or reported.

This post is a perfect example of a Chrisitan causing strife on a People board - trying to moderate discussions of Christianity by non-Christians on a non-Christian board..... seems like troling to me.

I very rarely discuss my beliefs and I am not Christian. My religion is quite diferent from the majority of people on this board. As time has gone by, I have found that I have less and less in common, religiously, than most of the people I come across here, and that I flat out disagree with the views of most people here more and more. I also have no desire to spend my time on here examining my beliefs or my faith in my gods. All are indisputable and have been for a good number of years. Without some extraordinary reason, my religion will not change--especially not on the basis of the beliefs of others. None of this has anything to do with why I come here. *...shrugs...*

I have been here for almost 3 1/2 years and I stay because I love many of the people here.

[mol]

I have been here for almost 3 1/2 years and I stay because I love many of the people here.

And that is what this place is all about in the end. That's why it doesn't matter what religion you are. We will always be the MW Online Pagan Community...but on the same token we will always be a Spiritual Sanctuary for everyone.

[DragonsChest]

Yeppers, that's why I'll be here for a long time. :hugz:

[Ninjakitten]

Me too. I've found a community here where I can do everything from voicing my concerns to bouncing ideas about my beliefs and ideas off other people to get that multi-faceted approach to ideas. Once in a while it gets a little heated, but I have yet to truly feel disrespected on here and I feel really comfortable talking to people on here because many of the people here seem to understand the concepts of "do unto others" and the abilities of people to debate things and not (usually) attack each other. I find it addictive the dialogue I get into on this site, and it's so strange that a site like this can thrive so much with only one simple rule of "respect".

[ap Dafydd]

You go, Lacy! When someone asks me "why would I want to be on a Pagan oriented board", sometimes that can morph into "Why are you here", to "You don't belong here because you are Christian, this is Our board". Not always a logical progression, but somewhat understandable, as it's very hard to fathom the speaker's intent from just words - you miss so much by the lack of body language.


For some of us, "This is OUR board" is the starting point, not the conclusion. You may want to try thinking about things from the point of view of Pagans (I'm not going to say _all_ Pagans but at least some of these points will apply to many of us). In most cases, it's not the behaviour of Christians here (which I'd agree is generally respectful) but the question as to whether, from our point of view, a Pagan site is the most appropriate place for you to find what you're looking for. Consider:

1. Some Pagans have had direct experience of discrimination, harassment, or abuse by Christians.

2. Some Pagans have a fear of discrimination, harassment, or abuse because of media reports of that kind of conduct by Christians.

3. Some Pagans are concerned because of the perceived political and social agenda by Christians, and the implications for civil rights.

4. Some Pagans are resentful at the extensive social, political, and cultural influence of Christianity in society and the exclusion of other religions, particularly our own.

5. Some Pagans note with regret the manner in which Classical Paganism was treated when Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire.

6. Some Pagans note with regret the manner in which Christian influence was extended throughout Europe.

7. Some Pagans view Witchcraft as a positive and empowering concept and contrast this with the way it was treated by Christianity during the later Middle Ages.

8. Some Pagans note with regret the way in which Christianity took advantage of colonialism to impose themselves on native peoples and to denigrate their religion and culture.

9 Some Pagans note with regret the loss of popular customs and festivities during the Industrial Revolution and the role of Christianity in discouraging people from carrying them on.

10. Some Pagans perceive a theological incompatibility between the concepts of the sacredness of the Earth which are inherent in most currents of Paganism and the corresponding attitudes of Christianity.

11. Some Pagans note with concern the specific prohibitions against some key Pagan practices which are contained in Christian scriptures.

None of the above points are personal attacks against you or any of the other Christians here, but perhaps they give some perspective on how some of us might feel.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[BlueMoon13]

And that is what this place is all about in the end. That's why it doesn't matter what religion you are. We will always be the MW Online Pagan Community...but on the same token we will always be a Spiritual Sanctuary for everyone.
:thewave:

[LacyRoze]

And that is what this place is all about in the end. That's why it doesn't matter what religion you are. We will always be the MW Online Pagan Community...but on the same token we will always be a Spiritual Sanctuary for everyone.

Thank you Mol!!!

[DragonsChest]

1. Some Pagans have had direct experience of discrimination, harassment, or abuse by Christians.

2. Some Pagans have a fear of discrimination, harassment, or abuse because of media reports of that kind of conduct by Christians.

3. Some Pagans are concerned because of the perceived political and social agenda by Christians, and the implications for civil rights.

4. Some Pagans are resentful at the extensive social, political, and cultural influence of Christianity in society and the exclusion of other religions, particularly our own.

Okay, granted. This could be taken to heart by anyone who is a member of anything that is not considered the "mainstream".


5. Some Pagans note with regret the manner in which Classical Paganism was treated when Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire.

6. Some Pagans note with regret the manner in which Christian influence was extended throughout Europe.

7. Some Pagans view Witchcraft as a positive and empowering concept and contrast this with the way it was treated by Christianity during the later Middle Ages.

This happened hundreds of years ago. No one now should be held responsible for what happened during the Roman Empire's reign, or during the Middle Ages. Why hold on to old grievances? What does that gain you or anyone? No disrespect meant here, I just don't understand. It's like the issue we have here in Tulsa, with the race riots that went on in the 1920's. Why am I, whose parents were only born in 1922 and 1923, being held accountable for what happened then, and my taxes going for "reparations"? I had nothing to do with that!


8. Some Pagans note with regret the way in which Christianity took advantage of colonialism to impose themselves on native peoples and to denigrate their religion and culture.

Yes, I agree this is bad.


9 Some Pagans note with regret the loss of popular customs and festivities during the Industrial Revolution and the role of Christianity in discouraging people from carrying them on.

When we became a less agrarian culture, and moved more and more into the cities, traditions and practices changed with that.



10. Some Pagans perceive a theological incompatibility between the concepts of the sacredness of the Earth which are inherent in most currents of Paganism and the corresponding attitudes of Christianity.

Don't agree. There's nothing in Christianity that says one can't revere nature and take care of it.


11. Some Pagans note with concern the specific prohibitions against some key Pagan practices which are contained in Christian scriptures.

This has been open to debate before on the board. To me, it's all a matter of interpretation. And since I am not a biblical scholar, I can't really debate this further with any authority.


None of the above points are personal attacks against you or any of the other Christians here, but perhaps they give some perspective on how some of us might feel.

No attack perceived or taken. You are a very well spoken person, and I enjoy the conversation!

[Ben Trismegistus]

1. Some Pagans have had direct experience of discrimination, harassment, or abuse by Christians.

<snip>

11. Some Pagans note with concern the specific prohibitions against some key Pagan practices which are contained in Christian scriptures.

Forgive me, but so what? I find it much easier and more entertaining to hate individual people for their individual failings, rather than hating large groups of people over generalities.

Past mistreatment by Christians is no reason not to give the Christians on this site a chance to offend you personally.

[Faeawyn]

just popping in cuz I love to follow Ben around and see what he says... :lol:

[Ben Trismegistus]

just popping in cuz I love to follow Ben around and see what he says... :lol:

Oooh I've got a stalker :)

[Faeawyn]

Oooh I've got a stalker :)
well Duh!! :hearthear :shhhh:

[BlueMoon13]

Forgive me, but so what? I find it much easier and more entertaining to hate individual people for their individual failings, rather than hating large groups of people over generalities.


Bwhahahahaha :rollingla :rollingla :rollingla :rollingla :rollingla :rollingla :collapse:

[arctic splash]

the question as to whether, from our point of view, a Pagan site is the most appropriate place for you to find what you're looking for.

If you're trying to argue that this might not be an appropriate place for Christians, how can anyone but the individual in question decide that? If you're trying to support this argument with your eleven points below, I don't get it.

Your logic of this sounds a lot like: "Most of our bananas have gone bad, so maybe this isn't the most appropriate place for you to find a banana to eat." Of course even if we have just a hundred bananas we can easily fill up on the ones are still good, so the argument doesn't work.

How do events that happened hundreds of years ago have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here?

How do the discrimination and social agendas of *some* Christians have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here?

How do scriptural prohibitions of certain Pagan practices (which many of the Christians here don't even accept) have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here?

How does your perceived incompatability between earth spirituality and Christian theology have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here. (I see *SOME* Christian theology as very much on the same page as earth spirituality. It's just hard to find. Not as hard to find here. I'm sure the beliefs of some of MW's Christians, if you stopped to listen to them, are not so incompatible with earth spirituality).

[wooleybob]

I really dont know how to comment on this.All I know is the laws and the church need to be kept seperated.I'm Wiccan,and had been told I'm evil,follow the devil,and been to the point of not being aloud to practice my faith,due to a bitter divorce.I've had the law and preachers both tell me that what I practice is not a Religion or faith.I've been dealing with a big problem now for a few weeks(Most know what it is)..I'm just as guilty as most on cracking a joke or making a comment on issues.But in all what ever faith you belive in is a choice made by you and not forced.We are all humans no matter who created us.j/m/o

[Ninjakitten]

Anyone consider that the "outcasts" that are us Christians being here in a "Pagan" area that demands respect for all on the board may be a way so that when and if Pagans (of whatever faith or faiths) become the dominant and mainstream that the reverse of what Christians have done in the past won't be repeated by Pagans against Christians in the future. Don't forget that Christians were severely persecuted by Pagans (Romans mostly) and Jews before Christianity became mainstream. I'd hate to think that religious prejudice merely goes through cycles of oppression rather than religions evolving with the evolution of human societies to provide a final end to the oppression of religious ideas... I hope that came out right (kinda tired ya know).

[ap Dafydd]

If you're trying to argue that this might not be an appropriate place for Christians, how can anyone but the individual in question decide that? If you're trying to support this argument with your eleven points below, I don't get it.

How do events that happened hundreds of years ago have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here?

How do the discrimination and social agendas of *some* Christians have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here?

How do scriptural prohibitions of certain Pagan practices (which many of the Christians here don't even accept) have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here?

How does your perceived incompatability between earth spirituality and Christian theology have anything to do with why a particular Christian would choose to come here. (I see *SOME* Christian theology as very much on the same page as earth spirituality. It's just hard to find. Not as hard to find here. I'm sure the beliefs of some of MW's Christians, if you stopped to listen to them, are not so incompatible with earth spirituality).

Can't of course speak for why a particular Christian would want to come to a Pagan site, that's not for me to say, though from posts I've seen here there might be a number of reasons.

But I'd respectfully suggest that a Pagan might want to come to a Pagan site to discuss Pagan issues in a Pagan environment. Some of us might be happy to discuss things in an explicitly multifaith environment, and that's a different issue.

An earlier poster talked about coming here to discuss issues that aren't theological, IIRC mentioned aromatherapy and stuff.

Perhaps by way of a counter example, suppose that I was interested in learning about ancient Hebrew folklore and the religions of the ancient Near East. I'd certainly regard the Bible as a key document. But I suspect that I wouldn't go to a Christian site to discuss them!

But at the end of the day, I'm not the owner of this site and I have no authority to decide who can post here and who can't!

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[DragonsChest]

But at the end of the day, I'm not the owner of this site and I have no authority to decide who can post here and who can't!

Thank goodness for mol and Semele! :sunny:

[ShadowcatX]

Thank goodness for mol and Semele! :sunny:

Here Here. :cheers: :yourock: :abanana:

[BlueMoon13]

But I'd respectfully suggest that a Pagan might want to come to a Pagan site to discuss Pagan issues in a Pagan environment. Some of us might be happy to discuss things in an explicitly multifaith environment, and that's a different issue.


Hence the section "Just Pagan". Like Mol said a few posts back, this is a online Pagan Community AND Spiritual Sanctuary (hail Mol) If my feeling is correct, the Christian witches who post here may feel more comfortable discussing certain things with us (pagans) than with other Christians who are unable to separate religion from magic.

[Ninjakitten]

Hence the section "Just Pagan". Like Mol said a few posts back, this is a online Pagan Community AND Spiritual Sanctuary (hail Mol) If my feeling is correct, the Christian witches who post here may feel more comfortable discussing certain things with us (pagans) than with other Christians who are unable to separate religion from magic.


Yeah. That's pretty much why I started coming here regularly. I do recognize this as a primarily Pagan site, though, and that's why I take criticism of Christians in stride, though I am more than willing to try to point out another way at looking at Christians, though. My faith may be Christian, but looking at my path you wouldn't recognize it as Christian because the loudest and most obnoxious (and common) Christians are the ones that force a definition of what it is to be Christian on others.

Me... I am a seeker of truth above all else, and I found much truth in Christ in my adulthood. That is not to say that is the only place I see truth, and that is why I am here amongst Pagans. That I am here amongst Pagans is why I don't tend to start Christian threads, except in areas where I think Pagans might be able to better answer a "Christian" question (like asking if someone could explain the method for casting lots, a divinatory method that the Apostles used in choosing a new Apostle). Unlike misperceptions I've been accused of in other places, I am not trying to Christianize and usurp Pagan religions. I am trying to expand and explore my path and the truth, and I'm sick of "the Church's" version of it that tries to drag people to Christ kicking and screaming.

Pagans aren't the only ones Christians have PO'ed. Other Christians get it from each other, and people like me get it from both sides. I just want to explore my path in peace, and wish a label didn't make me unwelcome to anyone, though I suppose amongst 17 bazillion people on this board, a certain percentage would be noticably uncomfortable with a Christian, or <insert other label here> on the board.

[Grey]

*shrugs* Im a member of the pagans for christ organisation... something that started up in western montana about 3 years ago. We figured that with all these lawsuits against christians it was just a bad road to go down... they have every right to practice their religion just as we have the right to practice ours. If they want to do it publicly, or even allow religious integration... they should be allowed to. As long as the prayer or such is optional then there shouldnt be a problem eh?

I support christians... and I dont approve of christian bashing anymore than I approve of gay bashing or woman beating.

[Protagonist]

*sighs* Can't everyone just give it a rest? The "pagans bashing Christians" thing has, in a few short years, gone from a legitimate concern to another reason for everyone to get fought up and be hatin'.
Guys, guys... don't hate.

[arctic splash]

A lot of pagans are really interested in world religions. It surprises me that we haven't had more serious discussion of Christianity, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, and other world religions here. On a pagan forum I wouldn't expect discussion to be limited to paganism, I'd expect discussion of every religion imaginable. :)

[arctic splash]

*sighs* Can't everyone just give it a rest? The "pagans bashing Christians" thing has, in a few short years, gone from a legitimate concern to another reason for everyone to get fought up and be hatin'.
Guys, guys... don't hate.

:yourock: Yay Christians and Pagans!

[Zibblsnrt]

I have to say that it always gives me a sick feeling when I come across people praising Jesus in my face, part of being a Pagan is explicitly rejecting that sort of thing.

Part of being a pagan is defining oneself in terms of Christianity?

News to me.

[Semele]

BTW, I'm not a Christian myself so I don't have a personal dog in this hunt, it was just an observation _inabox_

But we are all the same dogs in the same fight. Call yourself what you will and believe what you will...we all have the same right to stand up for those beliefs without being told we are wrong etc.

Sometimes we just have to decide when it is time to stand up and "fight" and when it is best just to let people run their mouths...this is what we all do in life. We have to teach our kids how to differentiate when to act and when to let it go.

However, as you are reading through the forums and something pops out at you as way off and it offends you, please report it. Let the admin team see if it needs to be addressed. Noone is ever going to get annoyed at reported posts.

[Protagonist]

I'd don't want y'all to hate - I want ya to love! :-)