Correspondences

[Darkdale]

One of the major aspects of neo-pagan traditions is correspondences, or the idea that certain symbols such as (North, East, South and West) and (Fire, Water, Earth and Air) correspond to certain gods, spirits or meanings. I must admit, I haven’t found this to be true, more to the point, I just haven’t experienced this to any specific degree. Maybe one day it will become clearer to me. I suppose such a perception correlates well with the aspects of individual deities, but I’ve always thought of specific meanings as correlating with specific spirits. I’m not sure why the “North” would have its own spirit. I’m not sure why “water” itself would have its own spirit. Just some thoughts.

[Toby Stimpson]

Well a correspondance is a way to focus mental energy and also to attract other energy that may help. A corresponadance is more an important cultural, traditional and psychic metaphor. There was another thread a few weeks ago that talked about correspondances...it has soem interesting things in it if you are looking. As for the 'spirits' idea, I can talk more to that fact that people like to work with things that are personified....if they have a face or a form to go along with. Its a way of working with the energy of that item or concept without having to go too abstract. In a sense the spirits do exist, but in another they do not. Namaste

Tobias

[Redbranchwarrior]

As for North etc, I agree, but for elements, they have personalitys. Fire behaves in a certain way, which differs from Water,wind & earth. To tap the power of an element, you need know its path, its way of thinking, it personality. Fire is not Water, Wind is not Earth, they are different, therefor must have different spirits, and must be worshiped diferent. Also it's a respect thing. You are respecting each element as a seperate part of a whole, kinda like walking up to a group of friends and saying hey to each one, instead of just walking up and saying hey. Just my 2 cents though.

[The High Queen of Faerie]

I think the reasons that the directions are thought to have guardians is because of the elements they are associated with.

It's all association, really. It's symbolism. It's thinking about how things connect to each other and how everything can be combined to form one whole.

[kaosxmage]

Correspondences are a mirror in the way in which people think. We group items into classes in our mind which then goes into an easy access catalog for future quick reference. It's a general idea - we don't typically see a robin, cardinal, or blue jay and call them by name; however, our mind quickly points out - bird. Same goes for all things. If I remember my intro to psych we call that clumping - not sure.

Same principle applies on the metaphysical. Grab most systems and they will have assigned a diety or spirit, a host of critters, incense, planets, etc to the direction they believe resonates best. If you look at many paths you will notice very few of them agree on correspondences - beyond the basic direction/element gig. It's a tool - a catalog of quick access and definition. I've used them countless times in the past. However, I personally choose not to use them anymore- the big general ones anyway. I don't feel I'm truly getting in depth on a matter unless I'm focusing on it by it's own merits without being associated with another bigger aspect. When working magick things could be different. It is far easier to gain the effect I'm looking for when I build associations - but I'm weird - so a banana may be a link to anything as long as I can make myself believe it.

As to why should water - or any other element have a spirit of it's own. Personality. It's easier to relate to something with personality - as someone stated above my post.

Rock on, :jamsessio
--Kaos

[Darkdale]

Great responses. Thanks. I think my problem (not really a problem) is I look more at the spirits which inhabit places where water is, where fire is...etc. I don't find a need for symbolizing with regard to the elements themselves.

[Xander67]

I would think that if you change something based on your instinct, and it gives more meaning to your magical work, then by all means yes, I dont think there is anything wrong with it.

[DebLipp]

Well, as you may know, I've written a whole book on this. :) :D

One thing is that elements (Air, Fire, Water, and Earth) do not have spirits. They have elementals. "Spirit" is that which contains all four elements.

"Correspondence" is a different thing from having a spirit. It is a way of performing sympathetic magic, a way of awakening the mind, a way of perceiving relationships and the interrelatedness of the universe. Often, it is metaphor.

For example, if you are a Taurus (like me) then you know that Taurus corresponds with the bull. That doesn't mean I am a bull (I don't have horns, for one). It means I have qualities and characteristics that can be described by comparing me to a bull. (Ask anyone.)

[Darkdale]

I would think that if you change something based on your instinct, and it gives more meaning to your magical work, then by all means yes, I dont think there is anything wrong with it.

Oh, I having experienced anything "wrong with it". :) Of course, my spiritual paradigm is more focused on the reverence of god and spirit, not so much working with magic. So I take it, correspondences are primarily important for Magical work.

[DebLipp]

So I take it, correspondences are primarily important for Magical work.Magical work, when meaning thaumaturgy, is full of practical application, and hence any magical practitioner can come up with a lot more reasons, because practicality lends itself to that.

But magic is theurgy as well; the work that invokes and brings one closer to the Gods. The so-called "Great Work" is magic. Altering consciousness so that one is more receptive to the Gods is magic. So I'd deny the distinction, especially in this case.