Goddesses & Saints

[LacyRoze]

I don't know why I never thought of this before but it just hit me. The Catholics pray to saints for protection and help, etc..Is it really any different than Pagans praying to Gods and Goddesses? The saints are honored and worshipped and statues of them are often kept in the home. To me it's the same thing or am I way off here?

[IvyWitch]

It is actually pretty different I think. Catholics look to the Saints and Mary not to worship them per-se, but they ask them to pray for them, and protect them. Mary and the Saints are (normally) not put on the same level as God in Catholicism, whereas in Paganism, the Gods and Goddesses are...well, Gods.

[LacyRoze]

Thank you Ivywitch for responding and also making it more clear to me...

[raven grimassi]

I don't know why I never thought of this before but it just hit me. The Catholics pray to saints for protection and help, etc..Is it really any different than Pagans praying to Gods and Goddesses? The saints are honored and worshipped and statues of them are often kept in the home. To me it's the same thing or am I way off here?

An interesting side note is the appearance of Saints and Saint Magic in some traditions of Italian Witchcraft. According to oral tradition, various gods and goddesses were dressed in the veneer of Saints in order to make their worship safe during the era of the persecution of Witches. Mary, for example, represented the Goddess in her many aspects. When depicted holding roses, or wearing a gown with a design of roses, this was the Goddess of Love.

Mary standing upon a crescent moon (a popular design today in Hispanic culture) represents the Moon Goddess. When she is shown holding the baby Jesus, she is the Mother Goddess who has birthed the newborn sun god.

Folklorist Charles Leland wrote:

“It is the most natural thing in the world that there should be certain blendings, compromises, and points of affinity between the Stregheria — witchcraft, or “old religion,” founded on the Etruscan or Roman mythology and rites — and the Roman Catholic: both were based on magic, both used fetishes, amulets, incantations, and had recourse to spirits. In some cases these Christian spirits or saints corresponded with, and were actually derived from, the same source as the heathen. The sorcerers among the Tuscan peasantry were not slow to perceive this.”
- Etruscan Roman Remains, 1892

Another interesting side note is what may be the remnants of goddess worship reflected in the Old Testament. In the Book of Proverbs (chapter 8, verse 2), we find a personage called “Wisdom” conceived of in the form of a female divinity who “stands at the crossroads” (a phrase used in ancient times concerning the witches’ goddess.) Wisdom speaks of being present both prior to and during the process of Creation. In verse 30 (The Jerusalem Bible) she claims to have been God’s assistant during the process of Creation:

“I was by his side, a master Craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere in his world, delighting to be with the sons of men.”

In the book of Wisdom (found only in the Catholic version), “Wisdom” is praised with these words (chapter 7: 22–27):

“For within her is a spirit intelligent, holy ... penetrating all intelligent, pure and most subtle spirits; for Wisdom is quicker to move than any motion; she is so pure, she pervades and permeates all things ... She is a reflection of the eternal light, untarnished mirror of God’s active power ... although alone, she can do all; herself unchanging, she makes all things new ...”

Best regards - Raven

[IvyWitch]

And of course there is the ever popular St. Brigid.

[LacyRoze]

Thank you Mr. Grimassi for your input. Could you possibly recommend some readeing material on this subject?

[raven grimassi]

[color=darkorchid] Could you possibly recommend some readeing material on this subject?

What are you specifically looking for by way of information? Most of the published works are on the Cult of Saints, which focuses on the phenomena of Saint veneration in the Middle Ages and Renaissance periods. These are very dry scholarly works, many out-of-print, and many quite pricey that are in print ($135).

If you can give me an idea of what you are interested knowing more about, I may be able to suggest some published material.

Best regards - Raven

[LacyRoze]

The whole Goddess- Saint thing is quite interesting to me, their connections, conversions (so to speak). I'm not real sure what exactly I'm looking for,lol. My mind is just on a roll and I'm going with it. I guess anything that would show connections between the two. I'm sorry I'm being so vague, I honestly don't mean to be..

[raven grimassi]

The whole Goddess- Saint thing is quite interesting to me, their connections, conversions (so to speak). I'm not real sure what exactly I'm looking for,lol. My mind is just on a roll and I'm going with it. I guess anything that would show connections between the two. I'm sorry I'm being so vague, I honestly don't mean to be..

Okay, let me see what I can draw upon from my research notes. I will send you something by email.

Best regards - Raven

[LacyRoze]

Thank you very much for taking the time...:flowers:

[EponaCapaill]

It is actually pretty different I think. Catholics look to the Saints and Mary not to worship them per-se, but they ask them to pray for them, and protect them. Mary and the Saints are (normally) not put on the same level as God in Catholicism, whereas in Paganism, the Gods and Goddesses are...well, Gods.
I'm a little late to the party, but IvyWitch is correct. Catholics do not worship the saints. Catholics pray to them to ask for their intervention with God. The Blessed Mother is a little different, most would say that they pray to her for intervention as well, but I see her (actually I see all the saints this way) more as a spiritual guide. I don't pray to her just to ask for help in granting special favors, but to be with me on my path.

There are ways other than praying that the saints are asked to intervene as well, one that I find funny is burying a statue of St. Joseph upside down in the front yard of your house when you are trying to sell it.

Metals are used as a reminder of a certain saint. I myself have St. Patrick (Ireland) and St. Jude (hopeless causes). I gave my grandfather a St. Peregrine metal when he was dying of cancer, asking St. Peregrine to be with him and to make his sickness easier.

When my great grandmother was alive she buried a statue of Mary at each corner of her house to protect the house. Her house was one of the only ones that survived a flood in decent condition.

[Agaliha]

From what I remember of Catholicism...saints are people much like you and me...but different.



All Christians aspire to become saints, that is, persons in heaven (officially canonized or not), who lived lives of great charity and heroic virtues.
In official Church procedures there are three steps to sainthood: one becomes Venerable, Blessed and then a Saint. Venerable is the title given to a deceased person recognized as having lived heroic virtues. To be recognized as a blessed, and therefore beatified, in addition to personal attributes of charity and heroic virtue, one miracle, acquired through the individual's intercession, is required. Canonization requires two, though a Pope may waive these requirements. Martyrdom does not usually require a miracle.
http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/explained.asp (http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/explained.asp)


Some of the very early saints (like in Christianity beginnings)-- the ones with no remains, no anything but a story, could in fact be either made up or based off something else-- like a Goddess. I've read St. Cecelia, patron st. of musicians may have in fact been some Goddess-like fictious person. But the rest are just people.
Some may say Mother Mary was just a person too, but I feel there is something different there.
I wear a metal of St. Michael (aka: Michael the archangel...so not a person)-- I asked for it to protect me and because he is considered the parton St. of police officers-- and I wanted to be one for 7 years.

Just my 2 cents :)