Hades and Avalon?

[LadyCelt]

What/Where is Hades? is there a deity presiding over it?

It may be the underworld, but I could be wrong

Also, where did the diea of it originate from, and what cultuers/faiths believe in it?

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What exactly is Avalon? I htink it may be with Merlin and/or Arthur, but I could also be wrong here too.


Thank you

[Gyda]

Hades in the greek underworl and Hades is the Name of the God who rules its (if memory is serving me right)

Avolon is part of the Aurthian (sp) myths.

[Caelia RavenWolf]

Wikipedia has a pretty decent on Hades if you wanted to know a little bit more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades)

You also might try here:

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hades.html (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hades.html)

There are actually a LOT of sites out there but I figure that between those two they should cover everything.

And I'm not sure why Avalon is in your title since you didn't ask anything about it but it has nothing to do with Hades; they're not even remotely linked and are completely different things. Avalon was a legendary island although there is a theory that it could have been a euphemism for the Otherworld. But there's nothing to really show that and it's never mentioned as anything other than an island in myths & legends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalon)

[StormVixen]

to me avalon is more than an arthurian myth... ths like another dimention... a bit like the astral... sort of...

[Caelia RavenWolf]

to me avalon is more than an arthurian myth... ths like another dimention... a bit like the astral... sort of...

That's totally understandible. I know a lot of people who think of it that way, I'm not too far off from that myself, I just wanted to tell her what it was historically first. :)

[aluokaloo]

Hades is a Greek God who mreigns over the Underworld, Avalon is an Island in Arthurian myth

[LadySnake]

I love Avalon. I've been there a few times whilst meditating. So mystical......................

[Toby Stimpson]

First of all, Hades is seen as the underworld in greek and roman mytholody. It is made up of three main places, that is the Elesian fields, Tartaros (the lowest part of Hades, and also a personified God) and the mighty river Styx. In many ways it could be seen as a many faceted summerland. It is ruled by three Gods, Hecate (the so called Queen of Hades), Persephone (Constort of Hades the God) and Hades, the god proper. Hades lives in a castle between tartaros and the river styx and rules all souls of the dead. Becasue he rules the underworld, he can never die becasue in essence he is already dead.

Avalon is NOT just from arthurian myths, although the word itself mostly appears there. Actually it is a form of the Celtic otherworld...and is quite good really as representing 'faerie islands.' It is but one name in amny for a type of land, generally called the Otherworld. There is one in Wales where the souls of the dead are said to go and it is ruled by Arawn, who chases the souls of the damned with his black dogs, or Bargests. There are other islands, mostly ruled by faerie kings and queens and said to live in the summer seas close off shore. Namaste

Tobias

[LadyCelt]

I didn't wanna make two threads, so I did the combining thing.

thanks for the posts.

[Toby Stimpson]

Oh I didnt even see your second question. Well, there is an 'afterlife' in most religions, both ancient and otherwise. Here we have two examples of very different afterworlds...yet similar. The Greek model is similar to a Kingdom where you enter into...and comes precominantly from the old Mesopatamian model. Egyptians have the underworld in the west ruled by osiris, the Mesopatamians have the underworld with 7 gates all ruled by an underworld Goddess, the ancient Romans and Greeks had Hades...if you leave the area from around the middle east/mediterranean, the afterworlds become a little less like the Mesopatamian model...for example, the Norse afterworld is living in either the underworld ruled by hel, or living in asgard with the Aesir. In a sense, they are all mirrors of what we hope to be in the afterlife...the ppl we love, things we like to do, and the Gods we worship. Plenty of happiness as well, well hopefully ;).

[Mistic Idiocricy]

watch the movie Mist Of Avalon. Its really cool..but contains incest*shudder*

[Caelia RavenWolf]

As for Avalon... the thought of it being a form of the Otherworld only came about with medieval tales of King Arthur. In Celtic mythology it was supposed to be an actual place, certainly mystical, but it was a real and tangible place, not the Otherworld. It was in some myths an island of the dead or cross roads so to speak, where the dead would cross over to the Otherworld. But Avalon itself was not seen as the Otherworld.

[rdh]

Don't watch the movie, read the book, SO much better. Infact read them all. Start with the Forest House, and then The Lady of Avalon, and then the Mists, and thenthe Priestess of Avalon, The Ancestors of Avalon, and then the Fall of Atlantis.

[Morgandria]

Funny...in all my readings and learnings about the various places in the various Celtic nations, spiritual or physical, Avalon just never came up. I have never heard of it outside of an Arthurian context, and I am sort of glad for that.

[teishabee]

Galadraal I wouldnt put hectate as a ruler of hades. Certainly she had access to to, as granted to her by Zeus. I know she was strongly linked to it after the tale of the golden fleece and the oddessy but never actually a ruler.

Hades is also known as Dis, meaning riches and Pluto in latin.

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

As for Avalon... the thought of it being a form of the Otherworld only came about with medieval tales of King Arthur. In Celtic mythology it was supposed to be an actual place, certainly mystical, but it was a real and tangible place, not the Otherworld. It was in some myths an island of the dead or cross roads so to speak, where the dead would cross over to the Otherworld. But Avalon itself was not seen as the Otherworld.

I'd love to see where you've come across this information, if you don't mind sharing?

~Caitriona

[Know Your Rights]

To me, personally, Hades, both a place and a 'person' Hades is god of the underworld, and also Hades is the underworld itself (in the Greek pantheon, this is)

Avalon, to me, is a peaceful place, akin to the Summerland. and if this makes any sense then you guys really understand me :D

[LordHelmet]

Hades is also mentioned in several places in the new testament, for instance in revelations when Jesus had the key to both Death and Hades. the Jews didn't actualy have a concept of an afterlife before then so I guess they used that. No really, the Jews really didn't have an afterlife belief, kinda weird. Hades should not be confused with hell, in the old testament it means dirt but in the new testament it usualy referes to tartarus.

I was under the impression that Avalon was suposed to be a real phisical place that was hidden in the mists. The idea in the movie 'Avalon' was that it was in the same place as an Abby, almost makes you wonder if it really was the abby all along... going on bettwen the nuns and they were the priestesses... hidden in the mists, not visable at first perception but they were real and phisical people?

[Toby Stimpson]

Of what I have read, 'Queen of Hades" was a title given to Hecate...it was not referring to her actual rulership of the underworld...but more to her connections with magic and the dead. Evrywhere I have seen, it does not refer to Kore as a ruler of the underworld. I could be wrong, but Im sure I read it soemwhere...will have to check my sources again and see. In the books I read, it stated the fact that even Hades himsefl was powerless to repremand Hecate after she aided Demeter to find her daughter. *shrugs*

Namaste

Tobias

[teishabee]

I think hades was powerless becuase the goddess was in favour of zeus and he was stringer then all the gods, so hades (dis) wouldnt want to cross him. I dont think it was her actual influence in hades.