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Haerfest Leah
August 24th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Maybe someone can answer this...

Is this page of symbols wrong..
http://www.arild-hauge.com/esymbol.htm (http://www.arild-hauge.com/esymbol.htm)

It has the triqutra shown as a different Valknot & lists spirals.

This site also says Spirals were used by the norse on rock art.
http://home.earthlink.net/~asatru/symbols/symbols14.html (http://home.earthlink.net/~asatru/symbols/symbols14.html)

Were symbols like spirals, triquetras and triskelles also Norse not just Celtic?

Wikipedia says the Norse suncross is basically the same thing as the celtic cross.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_cross)

Also what about knotwork, they're so similar. Is there even a difference?

Seren_
August 24th, 2005, 02:26 PM
I'm no expert on the Norse stuff, but there is a huge amount of similarity between Celtic and Norse knotwork. It's a controversial issue, since academics can't decide on which way the influence went, but currently I think the conclusion is that the Norse (well, the Anglo-Saxons, really, or as well as) influenced the Celts.

Meadhbh
August 24th, 2005, 03:31 PM
What I've heard I could be wrong, so don't hurt me. Is that the Celtics did more of the knotwork, and the Norse or Saxons were more the animal and people desgined knotworks that you see in later ages.

Hangatyr 13
August 25th, 2005, 06:05 PM
In the first site, the Volknots were all wrong, and it included the pentegram and the pentegon which aren't Norse. I don't think any of the symbols in the second site were Norse. The last one seemed pretty right on.

Moon Flower
August 25th, 2005, 07:23 PM
If you go back into the BC days, there is hardly any knot work in celtic art.
Lots of very beautiful spirals and 'waldagesheim scrolls', s-forms and lyres.
A few human faces.

All very beautiful, but not what most people think of as celtic.

The knot work (although small ammonts of simple stuff have been seen everywhere) mostly came into it's full flowering during the early christian period, especially in illuminated christian manuscripts like the book of Kells.

Norse stuff? I don't know. But I'd lke to see some.

mucgwyrt
August 26th, 2005, 06:02 AM
If you go back into the BC days, there is hardly any knot work in celtic art.
Lots of very beautiful spirals and 'waldagesheim scrolls', s-forms and lyres.
A few human faces.

All very beautiful, but not what most people think of as celtic.

The knot work (although small ammonts of simple stuff have been seen everywhere) mostly came into it's full flowering during the early christian period, especially in illuminated christian manuscripts like the book of Kells.

Norse stuff? I don't know. But I'd lke to see some.
...The Book of Kells would count as "norse" I think; it was drawn by the anglo-saxon monks on Lindisfarne Island - its not celtic.

mothwench
August 26th, 2005, 06:27 AM
I'm no expert on the Norse stuff, but there is a huge amount of similarity between Celtic and Norse knotwork. It's a controversial issue, since academics can't decide on which way the influence went, but currently I think the conclusion is that the Norse (well, the Anglo-Saxons, really, or as well as) influenced the Celts.
i agree with that, though i think there is some visible difference in the two styles. the celts keep everything symmetric and square, while the norse like to swirl more. their knotwork is more organic-looking. (see carvings on stave churches and rune stones (norse) compared to celtic crosses)

i didn't know that about the book of kells by the way. interesting... :kooky:

mothwench
August 26th, 2005, 06:36 AM
Were symbols like spirals, triquetras and triskelles also Norse not just Celtic?

well, spirals were, definately. and as for triquetras and triskelles, well, not as a concept, i don't think the valknot on the first site is very accurate. but a triskele is a basic shape that just happens when you do knotwork, it's hard to do knotwork without ending up with a trisk at some point... if you look at the franks casket (anglo-saxon) there are trisks in the corners formed by just the simple weave border going round a bend.

Wikipedia says the Norse suncross is basically the same thing as the celtic cross.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_cross)
yeah... there was the closed suncross, and then the open sunwheel which both represented the sun. the suncross is used more often than the sunwheel but probably only because the sunwheel looks like the swastika and has very icky vibes.
poor sunwheel. :awwman:

Kern
August 31st, 2005, 01:56 PM
I just came across this site and thought it might be helpful.

http://www.lore-and-saga.co.uk/html/celtic_art.html (http://www.lore-and-saga.co.uk/html/celtic_art.html)