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View Full Version : Rant...air drops? Why not? They are dying.



Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 01:57 PM
I just saw on tv other areas like the convention center that was set up as a shelter before the disaster hit. The people there have been forgotten. A baby died from lack of water in front of the reporter. Another mother was crazed as she held her dying baby. These people are on day 4 with no water. They are dying.

We air dropped in other countries for refugees, food and water. Why didnt we do that here?
Why are we not doing it now, this minute?
We have water in this country.
We have helicopter pilots.
We have the means to air drop water to every human stuck there. We have the means. We are not acting.

I dont see any excuse for this rich nation to forget these people.
Red tape is bull.
Not having access is bull.
Worrying about cleaning up is bull.
The only thing anyone should be doing is saving people.

Air dropping water would of saved the ones that have died and can save the ones dying right now. But they are talking and not acting.

In other areas people are dying on the streets. Kids die fast without water and they are dying!!

We are a wealthy nation, a large nation, but the gov talks and doesnt do enough.

People are dying as I type this and the gov is talking.
Talk wont save them.

I am sick of all the talk.

If I was one of those moms who held her baby for 4 days as it died from lack of water...my hatred for the lack of response would be carved in my soul. I would go crazy. There is no excuse. This is a crime against humanity!

And I saw the dead and dying on the screen in front of my eyes. I saw the mom hysterical with her dying child in her arms.

And some of these people are becoming violent toward everyone. I cant blame them. They are angry, dying and have lost it. I would too.

This is real!

By the time your done reading this someone has probably died...from lack of water! Friggen water!!
Time is out. 4 days is to long without water.

I am outraged!

Heres a visual:

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered with a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

ďI donít treat my dog like that,Ē Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. ďI buried my dog.Ē

ďYou can do everything for other countries but you canít do nothing for your own people," he said. "You can go overseas with the military but you canít get them down here.Ē

The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.

ďWe are out here like pure animals. We donít have help,Ē said the Rev. Isaac Clark, 68.

People there, some holding crying babies or elderly barely able to stand up, shouted for help as TV news crews passed by.

LINK (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/)

Old Witch
September 1st, 2005, 02:01 PM
So am I!! But our great President was on the air with his stupid insipid smile saying how great things are, how well things are being handled...and everything is going to be fine..........

After everyone has died......

Is anyone watching these government fools on TV now???? Do they have a clue?? Things are in place?? they are going well??? I have got to turn off the TV..I'm glad I'm going to work soon.........

Psypress
September 1st, 2005, 02:06 PM
And it was SO nice of the president to take a break during his vacation to address this disaster.
I am disgusted.

This is horrific. I am just numb with shock.

Koehnae
September 1st, 2005, 02:10 PM
Its causing so many of us to feel so helpless. What do we do? I know if I had an airplane or a helicopter, I'd say" screw the red tape" and be on my way dropping food and water. Why can't the government just simply help?!

RowanMegaera
September 1st, 2005, 02:13 PM
They are working as hard and as quickly as they can. When I spoke to my husband yesterday he had been flying for 26 hours straight and was in the process of loading up another set of pallets of water to drop off for the refugees at the Superdome, hospitals and overpasses.

Koehnae
September 1st, 2005, 02:16 PM
Oh, I know those who are there are doing everything they can... and I'm sure feeling even more helpless than those of us here. It just feels like they could be doing more, ya know?

Lewen
September 1st, 2005, 02:17 PM
I think some of the problem is lack of being able to communicate and have a contingency plan for communicating and dropping these things in. You've got other units driving and being bussed in and communications at best is all a big confused jumble.

I'm not defending it, I'm as disgusted as all you are. But think...we just drop the water in there and there's no order, people get trampled and it's a big mess.

We had it drilled into our heads that before we left for shelter to take one gallon of water per person per day...it used to be three days, but now I've heard they tell you five days before relief efforts can get to you and give you the water and food you need. People were flocking to the shelter without food and water expecting just to get food and water handed to them. These things take TIME.

What about that reporter? Did he have bottled water on him? What about the camera crews? No one had anything to give that dying baby? The whole thing pisses me off.

I hope to the gods that this time, those that had time to plan and prepare for this will have a decent plan in place for the future so that dying baby didn't die in vain.

It sucks all around and I wish I were able to do more then just pray and send what little I have to help out.

atropa
September 1st, 2005, 02:17 PM
Yes to everything everyone just said! I know you're husband is killing himself trying to help those people, Rowan. He is a hero. I think it may be raining in N.O. right now, maybe they could gather some water (please god). Disgusted, horrified, heartbroken.

atropa
September 1st, 2005, 02:18 PM
What about that reporter? Did he have bottled water on him? What about the camera crews? No one had anything to give that dying baby? The whole thing pisses me off.



That too.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 02:21 PM
Its causing so many of us to feel so helpless. What do we do? I know if I had an airplane or a helicopter, I'd say" screw the red tape" and be on my way dropping food and water. Why can't the government just simply help?!

Exactly.

And we can make sure the news of these events doesnt get buried when its all over.
I worry they will not let the people who do survive this hell to be heard when its over.

Or they will say..we will learn from this.
Bull...they could of 'prevented' this.
They need to answer for it.
Desperate times needs desperate measures.
They could ask owners of choppers, crop duster planes for crying out loud for help air dropping water.
And considering that people are dying over a 4 day span..training to drop water isnt an excuse.
For a pilot of a chopper or a dust cropper, I dont think it would be hard to follow instruction.
People are not that stupid. And trying is better than what has been done which is nothing!

What happened to if there is a will there is a way?
There are ways, the will is there..they arent using them.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 02:24 PM
They are working as hard and as quickly as they can. When I spoke to my husband yesterday he had been flying for 26 hours straight and was in the process of loading up another set of pallets of water to drop off for the refugees at the Superdome, hospitals and overpasses.

They havent done and still are not doing anything for other people in other shelters like the convention center. They have totally forgotten them!! Even though it was a shelter for them.
4 days with no water..there is no excuse.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 02:26 PM
I think some of the problem is lack of being able to communicate and have a contingency plan for communicating and dropping these things in. You've got other units driving and being bussed in and communications at best is all a big confused jumble.

I'm not defending it, I'm as disgusted as all you are. But think...we just drop the water in there and there's no order, people get trampled and it's a big mess.

We had it drilled into our heads that before we left for shelter to take one gallon of water per person per day...it used to be three days, but now I've heard they tell you five days before relief efforts can get to you and give you the water and food you need. People were flocking to the shelter without food and water expecting just to get food and water handed to them. These things take TIME.

What about that reporter? Did he have bottled water on him? What about the camera crews? No one had anything to give that dying baby? The whole thing pisses me off.

I hope to the gods that this time, those that had time to plan and prepare for this will have a decent plan in place for the future so that dying baby didn't die in vain.

It sucks all around and I wish I were able to do more then just pray and send what little I have to help out.

Its been 4 days...thats to dam long.
And the stuff about people getting trampled..bull.
Drop plenty and its still better than slow death!

Hey who knows what happened with the water they may have been told to bring. That doesnt change anythin. They are still dying over a 4 day period.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 02:29 PM
Heck the reporters care about a good story.
I saw one reporter that said people were begging her for water..they didnt shoot the begging on film of course, and she just said they are desperate. She never said we brought water with us for them!

Lewen
September 1st, 2005, 02:31 PM
Its been 4 days...thats to dam long.
And the stuff about people getting trampled..bull.
Drop plenty and its still better than slow death!

Hey who knows what happened with the water they may have been told to bring. That doesnt change anythin. They are still dying over a 4 day period.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you, it is bull but it's reality. We are told by all in schools and everything to TRY to bring at least that much water for yourself and you're right no accounting for what might have happened to the water, I know for certain, my five kids would have drank more then that. But it still remains, that they say that because it takes time for rescue efforts and things to be sorted out. I'm speaking from the perspective of a policeman's wife now. It always looks easier then it is.

You are quite right, it is BULL and these things should never have had to happen, but it did and now we are ALL paying for it. With lives. I hope someone answers for all those thirsty people. We do need people to do more, but it requires a team effort and sadly, I think most of america has forgotten what it means to be a team player.

My thoughts and prayers to everyone in this situation.

LittlePerson
September 1st, 2005, 02:32 PM
I know what you mean Shanti. I'm sorry, but I am more of a believer of real action rather than talk even when that comes to prayer. On our news day before yesterday they had govenor riley come on and say well, all we can do is pray. Um I don't think so. Sitting in a church giving money to the church instead of money for water or donating water to drop is much more important than sitting in an air conditioned building and praying. But that's not all, a couple of seconds later, they got away from so al and went to the university of alabama and said what were they going to do if everything wasn't cleaned up before the first game and actually showed them cleaning. But in the first scene of lower alabama they didn't show anyone doing anything constructive, just talking about prayer. And they didn't mention prayer during the college scene. Shows where their priorities are and where they are makes me mad.

treefae
September 1st, 2005, 02:32 PM
it's horrible.i'm crying the news says the buses are sitting there and the police focus more on looters now than rescue efforts.um why can't they get helicopters in to fly everyone out or is that too expensive for Bush.we can pull out billions to bomb the shit out a country for days.wtf is going on when we have issues.babies are dying in front of reporters eyes i want to throw up.hollywood stars can private jet and helicopter themselves everywhere.wtf is going on i am so upset.it sickens me how much money we can pull out for destruction but where is it for this.WHY AREN'T THESE PEOPLE GETTING OUT OF THERE FASTER???

starfire
September 1st, 2005, 02:44 PM
I think they are working on things as fast as they can. It takes cordination to get everything moving. I don't think they really new at first how bad it was going to be.

This is why every state should have a disaster plan and go over the what ifs. It sounded like they thought they did, and then it became much worse than anyone thought it would.

In california, we have earthquakes and coast lines. Things could get really bad here if a major quake hit all the way up the fault lines. Luckily we are on higher ground, but are we really prepared?
Each state should look at there own plan, what could go wrong. Also what could be done if things go wrong and have a plan set up.

Many of these places have to have people go out assess the area, then make a move from there. Of course you are already talking a couple of days. That combined with hot weather, I am no surprised there havent been more deaths.

if they can't get the levies fixed, where are these people going to live?

I feel for them, I really do. I also thank God I am where I am right now.

Remeber they have saved many people too, they have ignored the dead, and focused on the living to get them out. They are constantly pulling people out of buildings, but they can only work so fast. Now that the President has seen what is going on, he is helping too. We must remember that he had to be notified of what was going on too. Then he did make arrangements to come back and check things out to see how bad it is.

Mithrea
September 1st, 2005, 02:52 PM
Bush is on tv right now talking about what we can do. He gave the number to donate cash to the Red Cross: 1-800-helpnow.

He tried to say exactly what was going on in the relief effort, but he spent alot of time talking about gas prices too. . .

TheGodthatYouFear
September 1st, 2005, 03:06 PM
You know what really kills me, how many people are overseas right now?
I think the big problem is that there just is not enough people, which could be
fixed sure, but we have people in the "Reserves" and all sorts of stuff, where are they
now? Oh that's right, to someone else's point earlier, they are out blowing stuff up.
Yeah, that's real good in a time like this.

Does anyone know how many people went to the 9/11 efforts?
Seems like just as many, if not more people's lives are at stake here.
Maybe they should talk about it some more.

As#holes.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 03:12 PM
Still there is no excuse for not dropping water in the areas mentioned..o excuse. needing time is not an excuse. This country does have the resources in its own people, they are not using that.
If I was a pilot and had a chopper or plane I would offer to go drop water but red tape would prevent it.

red tape....its bull.
desperate times need desperate measures.

they still havent done a thing for the areas forgotten.

right now those people are still waiting. That mom that they showed holding her dying child, its prob to late by now.

the reporters are getting in their to report on this...bull it takes time. 4 days have past...heck wait longer let then all die and then they dont have to worry about it!

DragonsChest
September 1st, 2005, 03:22 PM
the reporters are getting in their to report on this...


Well, now. That's an interesting point. If the reporters are getting in and out, why can't the busses and other aircraft get in and out?

Also, does anyone here remember from their WWII history classes about the Marshall Plan, how planes were landing, dropping supplies and taking off again, all within a span of minutes? With our better technology now, why can't our helicopters do that? Is it a lack of machinery to support such a movement? We kept an entire city alive with the Marshall Plan, seems like we could do something like that now.

*sigh*

xstarE_nitex
September 1st, 2005, 03:36 PM
What about that reporter? Did he have bottled water on him? What about the camera crews? No one had anything to give that dying baby? The whole thing pisses me off.

I hope to the gods that this time, those that had time to plan and prepare for this will have a decent plan in place for the future so that dying baby didn't die in vain.

It sucks all around and I wish I were able to do more then just pray and send what little I have to help out.


well well said

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 04:49 PM
I have a question from an unidentified person on tv in the convention center area...

"You dropped rations in Bagdad for the people, why havent you dropped any here for your own people"?

These people are above the water...on dry land!

I will never forget any of this.

Some gov guy on tv said we dont have enough poeple or equipment to get to everyone. They are working on getting more.
If thats the case...we as a country have a prob. We cant handle a terrorist attack that may be massive. We cant handle any bio mass probs, dirty bomb crap. We are not as great as we are told if we 'dont have enough!'

Your on your own thank you very much and good night!!

Lewen
September 1st, 2005, 05:00 PM
I have a question from an unidentified person on tv in the convention center area...

"You dropped rations in Bagdad for the people, why havent you dropped any here for your own people"?

These people are above the water...on dry land!

I will never forget any of this.

Some gov guy on tv said we dont have enough poeple or equipment to get to everyone. They are working on getting more.
If thats the case...we as a country have a prob. We cant handle a terrorist attack that may be massive. We cant handle any bio mass probs, dirty bomb crap. We are not as great as we are told if we 'dont have enough!'

Your on your own thank you very much and good night!!

and people laughed at me when I prepared for the Y2K thing.
You never know. This is just another lesson for me to be prepared for all things...right now my biggest deal up here is a blizzard and even then, that's managable here. I will keep it in mind to have water and cans and stuff stored.

Amazing...simply amazing. *sighs*

RhiannynWildseed
September 1st, 2005, 05:03 PM
Or they will say..we will learn from this.
Bull...they could of 'prevented' this.


I have to ask you, how could we have prevented this besides not allowing anyone to live in New Orleans, or heck, any coastline that is a potential target for hurricanes? The hurricane center was reporting days in advance that this would be a killer storm. I do understand that there were people too old or too poor to get out of its way, but many of these people are the same people that said beforehand "Oh, well, we lived through (insert hurricane name here), so we'll make it through this."

I myself said a couple days ago why can't the gov't comandere some cruise ships that are fairly close and put people in them. The gov't can reimburse the cost to the cruise companies. But they would have everything they need....the ships generate their own power, fresh water supply, and they carry quite a bit of food and have many restaurants to cook it. The idea is on the table, and I don't see why they don't go ahead and do it, but to claim we could have prevented it.....no, I don't think that's a fair statement.

RhiannynWildseed
September 1st, 2005, 05:08 PM
I just saw a news report on why there are hardly any boats out looking for people. There were hundreds of boats lined up this morning trying to get in the water to go rescue people. The people started to attack the boats and the boats had to leave. Because of the violence, they can't get anywhere to help.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 05:09 PM
I have to ask you, how could we have prevented this besides not allowing anyone to live in New Orleans, or heck, any coastline that is a potential target for hurricanes? The hurricane center was reporting days in advance that this would be a killer storm. I do understand that there were people too old or too poor to get out of its way, but many of these people are the same people that said beforehand "Oh, well, we lived through (insert hurricane name here), so we'll make it through this."

I myself said a couple days ago why can't the gov't comandere some cruise ships that are fairly close and put people in them. The gov't can reimburse the cost to the cruise companies. But they would have everything they need....the ships generate their own power, fresh water supply, and they carry quite a bit of food and have many restaurants to cook it. The idea is on the table, and I don't see why they don't go ahead and do it, but to claim we could have prevented it.....no, I don't think that's a fair statement.

By pulling ALL the resources of this enitire nation together SOONER! Heck they still are talking while people die. If they acted as much as they talk, maybe more would be saved.

Read the article that I posted the link to one the first post.

These people are on dry land...air lifts of rations would of made a diferance.

Well there are those in who disagree with your view, watch the news. Watch the people who are begging for help, for water, food.

Dam food and water what the f&^$^& is the prob?

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 05:10 PM
These people are on DRY LAND!!! They are begging for food and water!!!!!!! What is so hard to understand? Why are they NOT dropping rations? They dropped rations in Bagdad!!

RhiannynWildseed
September 1st, 2005, 05:12 PM
And without armed guards there to keep them from fighting over it and hoarding it instead of sharing it....?

As desparate as these people are, and I know they are, I don't believe peaceful cooperation will occur. Yeah, there will be some that won't fight, but these people have entered survival mode, and it's every man, woman, child for themselves.

DragonsChest
September 1st, 2005, 05:15 PM
Shanti, you're going to burst a blood vessel if you keep this up. You've asked some good, interesting questions, let's see if time will answer them. You're really not doing yourself any good - I'm worried about you. :hugz:

Teresa
September 1st, 2005, 05:16 PM
It crushes my spirirt to see all the hurt and despair and lack of government not moving quickly enough.They could call in more troops to help get supplies into these people.There are tons of news reporters in these areas why can the help not get through to them?

RhiannynWildseed
September 1st, 2005, 05:19 PM
It crushes my spirirt to see all the hurt and despair and lack of government not moving quickly enough.They could call in more troops to help get supplies into these people.There are tons of news reporters in these areas why can the help not get through to them?

I asked my husband yesterday why the news trucks weren't loading as many people as possible and trying to get them to a shelter. Truth be told is that they are scared of getting killed by the very people they're trying to help.

Hell, there was a report today that a brother shoot his own sister in the head over a bag of ice. His own sister.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 05:44 PM
If they would of been dropping rations, and its been 4 days...the people wouldnt be so crazed. Who's going to answer the little to late questions?

DC dont worry. I am ok just really sickened and angry.
And disappionted.

Hey if I find myself in a disaster..I aint waiting for help.
I will find away to survive. I dont care if I had to grab floating boards to get out of the situation.

I rather die trying than die waiting for gods know how friggen long.

I have no faith in our government..any branch...at all.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 05:53 PM
Turns out:
The news people are bringing food and water. They cant get enough though...theres over 20,000 people there!!!!
The people, even though the news crews dont have enough...are not attacking or hurting anyone.
The people are not a threat. The news people are fine inside this crowd. So why cant anyone else get in there?
Turn on MSNBC. They are there and helping. But they are just a news station!! Wheres FEMA? Wheres the military?
Where the hell is everyone else?


Bull doodoo.....no excuse.
None. Period.

RhiannynWildseed
September 1st, 2005, 05:59 PM
Turns out:
The news people are bringing food and water. They cant get enough though...theres over 20,000 people there!!!!
The people, even though the news crews dont have enough...are not attacking or hurting anyone.
The people are not a threat. The news people are fine inside this crowd. So why cant anyone else get in there?
Turn on MSNBC. They are there and helping. But they are just a news station!! Wheres FEMA? Wheres the military?
Where the hell is everyone else?


Bull doodoo.....no excuse.
None. Period.

I AM watching the news. I've been watching it since before this all started when Katrina was still a Cat. 2 in the Gulf, and I said the people in NO should get the hell out of there.

Every news crew I've seen is somewhere on higher ground close to a major source of shelter where people aren't as crazed and desparate as those in the flooded areas or stranded by the floods. I watched the one lone reporter out in a boat with rescue personel that were being forced to make judgement calls based on how dangerous people looked as to whether or not they could risk picking them up.

I don't believe for a minute that things wouldn't have degraded if they had immediately started dropping supplies. These people are scared and under stress, and you don't know how they are going to react, with supplies or without them. People under such severe stress act unpredictably.

Amryn
September 1st, 2005, 06:01 PM
Why can't we mobilize the nation get boats, planes, buses whatever and just get those people out of there? People can't live in those conditions. Dropping supplies isn't doing anything. I think we should be concentrating on find people and getting them the heck out of there.

Semele
September 1st, 2005, 06:04 PM
I have no faith in our government..any branch...at all.

Right, that is all well and good but bad mouthing and getting angrier and angrier isn't helping the effort nor you my friend. Lets calm down and look at things from another angle.

First..turn off the Damn tv, walk away from it, go outside and feel the earth under your feet for a minute. Connect to that and allow it to fill you. Relax and take some deep breaths and do what you can for the suffering people in need, which has nothing to do with ranting and raving and posting angry messages of frustration at an alarmingly fast pace.

We obviously cannot get water to them ourselves right now, we can't fix the wrongs even though we can point them out. We don't need to point them out, that wont help. The one thing we can do is raise a hell of a lot of energy and focus it. Come on guys, why waste energy ranting when we could actually heal and help sustain suffering thirsty babies while they wait for the aid that will hopefully get there soon? We can even have those of us more adept in directing forces send energy that way and effect changes necessary to expedite the drop offs etc. However, we have got to be calm and rational ourselves or else we create more chaos for those who are trying to send what they can through the already stormy and turbulent waves.

:hugz: Your heart is in the right place Shanti..now turn off the tv for a while and go get it working girl.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 06:05 PM
Why can't we mobilize the nation get boats, planes, buses whatever and just get those people out of there? People can't live in those conditions. Dropping supplies isn't doing anything. I think we should be concentrating on find people and getting them the heck out of there.

That is the problem!!!!!
They have been concentrating on getting them out but:

'Not on keeping them alive' till they get them out!!!
Stupid!!! Just stupid!!

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 06:07 PM
Right, that is all well and good but bad mouthing and getting angrier and angrier isn't helping the effort nor you my friend. Lets calm down and look at things from another angle.

First..turn off the Damn tv, walk away from it, go outside and feel the earth under your feet for a minute. Connect to that and allow it to fill you. Relax and take some deep breaths and do what you can for the suffering people in need, which has nothing to do with ranting and raving and posting angry messages of frustration at an alarmingly fast pace.

We obviously cannot get water to them ourselves right now, we can't fix the wrongs even though we can point them out. We don't need to point them out, that wont help. The one thing we can do is raise a hell of a lot of energy and focus it. Come on guys, why waste energy ranting when we could actually heal and help sustain suffering thirsty babies while they wait for the aid that will hopefully get there soon? We can even have those of us more adept in directing forces send energy that way and effect changes necessary to expedite the drop offs etc. However, we have got to be calm and rational ourselves or else we create more chaos for those who are trying to send what they can through the already stormy and turbulent waves.

:hugz: Your heart is in the right place Shanti..now turn off the tv for a while and go get it working girl.

Your right Sem!

I just dont want this to be ignored or forgotten.
Tomarrow, few will know, few will be told.

But I'll take a break.

Semele
September 1st, 2005, 06:14 PM
Your right Sem!

I just dont want this to be ignored or forgotten.
Tomarrow, few will know, few will be told.

But I'll take a break.

We will not forget this and we will never forget your passion about the loss Shanti. We share your frusrtation and I would be right there with you if I had the news on. I have to draw upon the love and energy from my own babies as I give them their dinner tonight and focus that and send it on to those that need it. I just can't do that with a broken soul and angry spirit. There is no room for negativity in the strong spirit and push needed to get the energy to its target.

I love you Shanti! You have a heart of Gold.

Xander67
September 1st, 2005, 06:18 PM
oh I have a feeling this wont be forgotten too soon...

Mardi Gras is comming up in Feb, but I dont think the city will be back on its feet enough to hold it...
it will be at least 6 months untill the infrastructure can start to be rebuilt... the Army core of engineers estimates it will take 4 to 6 months to pump out the water..

no one can do anything recovery wise untill all the water is out... and that alone is estimated to take 2 to 3 months...

Everyone is criticizing the govt.... the govt is doing alot... there are cabinent level posts being created just to respond to this crisis... THe Aid is there, the reason it is not geting to the ones who need it is becuase the people who need it are surrounded by water... they tried the air drops but it is a bit hard to air drop water and food when people are shooting at the helos from the ground.

Before anyone starts to criticize the government, take a minute to realise the big picture.. there are alot of logistics behind an operation like this, and I would say we are doing a damn good job considering we have never had to untertake something this massive on our own...

when the Tsunami hit, the whole world rushed in... the after effects of Katrina are compareable if not greater than this, and we are on our own....

If anyone wants to start pointing fingers, lets wait and see if we get help from other countries ... We as a nation need to come together right now, forget polotics... this is a new experience for the government,

with 9/11 you had a smaller area to focus the relief and aid... less than a square mile here in NY and in DC.....

we are talking at an area of ninety thousand square miles here, this is something that has never happened in our nation before...

Isil Darkmoon
September 1st, 2005, 07:00 PM
Unfortunately, some of the city's ...less desireable inhabitants are becoming a large part of the problem.

Selfstyled "ganglords" are leading thugs to do things like *break into still-active hospitals* and STEAL the 10 day's food and water stores they had in reserve for the patients and staff, *hijacking* full supply trucks of food and water, etc.

The same lowlifes are SHOOTING at any helicopter that's tried to get near the Superdome or the Convention Center. They've had to pull the choppers back until they get a much larger active military force on teh g round to end this.

The people that NEED the supplies, in these locations--they're not the problem. They're not the ones rioting or creating violence. But the ones outside, the ones turning the city into a state of anarchy... I feel those [censored] are far more to blame than the government or the military. The gov/military may not be doing "enough", but they're TRYING to do things. These worthless wastes of oxygen are ACTIVELY working to UNDO or PREVENT what others are trying to accomplish.

*Sigh*.

QUEEN OF THE DAMNED
September 1st, 2005, 07:03 PM
Unfortunately, some of the city's ...less desireable inhabitants are becoming a large part of the problem.

Selfstyled "ganglords" are leading thugs to do things like *break into still-active hospitals* and STEAL the 10 day's food and water stores they had in reserve for the patients and staff, *hijacking* full supply trucks of food and water, etc.

The same lowlifes are SHOOTING at any helicopter that's tried to get near the Superdome or the Convention Center. They've had to pull the choppers back until they get a much larger active military force on teh g round to end this.

The people that NEED the supplies, in these locations--they're not the problem. They're not the ones rioting or creating violence. But the ones outside, the ones turning the city into a state of anarchy... I feel those [censored] are far more to blame than the government or the military. The gov/military may not be doing "enough", but they're TRYING to do things. These worthless wastes of oxygen are ACTIVELY working to UNDO or PREVENT what others are trying to accomplish.

*Sigh*.

I agree. I couldn't believe it when I saw that stuff on the news.

WTF are those people thinking?

I also agree with your point Shanti.

This is such a horrible mess!

Xander67
September 1st, 2005, 07:11 PM
are you all watching cnn??

they are haveing a gun battle, the police and the residents...
NOW the Military will have to step in... they are shooting at hosptials and helicopters

Penthesilea
September 1st, 2005, 07:23 PM
are you all watching cnn??

they are haveing a gun battle, the police and the residents...
NOW the Military will have to step in... they are shooting at hosptials and helicoptersTime to take the gloves off. Shoot to kill......

Lewen
September 1st, 2005, 07:25 PM
Time to take the gloves off. Shoot to kill......

Agreed....go get them JPSO and be safe guys.

ShamanFeather
September 1st, 2005, 07:31 PM
I don't know what the statuses are for the most part without tv, but I know the company I work for Schneider says that they have trucks loaded up with water. I am not on the team managaing that, but at least they are trying to help.

perhaps there is a way to someone how to get ppl slowly out of there into surrounding communities to be housed at ppl's homes like fostering them where there is food and water?

I heard on the radio that now the US is in trouble there is no one from other countries really helping out other then saying they are sorry.

On another list there are links to places you can donate for help, hopefully the Salvation Army and others iwll pull out their savings and use it to the fullest extent.

ShamanFeather
September 1st, 2005, 07:37 PM
Unfortunately, some of the city's ...less desireable inhabitants are becoming a large part of the problem.

Selfstyled "ganglords" are leading thugs to do things like *break into still-active hospitals* and STEAL the 10 day's food and water stores they had in reserve for the patients and staff, *hijacking* full supply trucks of food and water, etc.

The same lowlifes are SHOOTING at any helicopter that's tried to get near the Superdome or the Convention Center. They've had to pull the choppers back until they get a much larger active military force on teh g round to end this.

The people that NEED the supplies, in these locations--they're not the problem. They're not the ones rioting or creating violence. But the ones outside, the ones turning the city into a state of anarchy... I feel those [censored] are far more to blame than the government or the military. The gov/military may not be doing "enough", but they're TRYING to do things. These worthless wastes of oxygen are ACTIVELY working to UNDO or PREVENT what others are trying to accomplish.

*Sigh*.

These ppl are not thinking right, they are thinking of having food and water and surviving. They have no way of knowing what is going on without the media. It is survival of the fittest. Its easy to say what are you doing stealing from hospitals shooting ppl? But I'm sure the sights, smells and sounds linked with not enough water and food and not knowing or knowing that their loved ones are dead from ppl that are used to comfort of their own home knowing everything will be relatively ok tomarrow. What would a mother due to protect her child? I picture men shooting, what if they are men shooting and stealing for their children to live their families? Its craziness, and it really doesn't make it right, but it is situational. Maybe the copters are coming in to help, but maybe they view it as the copters are going to take us away and arrest us and take away our food and water, even though if they would take them away they'd at least be safer. Don't expect them to be rational.

ShamanFeather
September 1st, 2005, 07:47 PM
Okay these are useful links that contain information on how we can help.
http://uacares.arizona.edu/katrina/ (http://uacares.arizona.edu/katrina/)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/30/katrina.advice.us/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/30/katrina.advice.us/index.html)

Isil Darkmoon
September 1st, 2005, 07:49 PM
These ppl are not thinking right, they are thinking of having food and water and surviving. They have no way of knowing what is going on without the media. It is survival of the fittest. Its easy to say what are you doing stealing from hospitals shooting ppl? But I'm sure the sights, smells and sounds linked with not enough water and food and not knowing or knowing that their loved ones are dead from ppl that are used to comfort of their own home knowing everything will be relatively ok tomarrow. What would a mother due to protect her child? I picture men shooting, what if they are men shooting and stealing for their children to live their families? Its craziness, and it really doesn't make it right, but it is situational. Maybe the copters are coming in to help, but maybe they view it as the copters are going to take us away and arrest us and take away our food and water, even though if they would take them away they'd at least be safer. Don't expect them to be rational.


No, you're incorrect here. There are a lot of families 'stealing' and 'looting' food, water, and supplies for survival. The police are letting them do this, sometimes even helping them. The police are *telling* people they see with necessities that they are NOT going to arrest them, and to let others know they won't deny necessities. They're PROTECTING these people from the lawless gangs who are looting and shooting as they please. While sometimes there are panic issues with these folks, and minor outbreaks have happened, NONE of the serious violence or shooting has come from the ones interested in just their own survival.

There is the second set of people I already mentioned who have descended into lawlessness. They were the ones stealing and looting JEWELRY, MINK COATS, CASES OF BEER, DVD PLAYERS, and PLASMA TV's. They *are* setting up as active gangs, claiming territories, feuding with one another, and doing anything they can to keep ANY law enforcement out. An officer was shot *IN THE HEAD* by a looter taking *luxury items*. This is not an issue of survival. This is an issue of greed, anarchy, and the rank underbelly of human nature.

And the copters that have been shot at? They've been nowhere NEAR the shooters. They've all been actively trying to access hospitals, the convention center, or the superdome. They're being sniped at--not fired in reaction to, but shot at with set-up, premeditated snipings, sometines by multiple people, from rooftops some distance away. This is not panic, and this is not survival. This is... something I, for one, have no words for.

Lunacie
September 1st, 2005, 08:14 PM
No, you're incorrect here. There are a lot of families 'stealing' and 'looting' food, water, and supplies for survival. The police are letting them do this, sometimes even helping them. The police are *telling* people they see with necessities that they are NOT going to arrest them, and to let others know they won't deny necessities. They're PROTECTING these people from the lawless gangs who are looting and shooting as they please. While sometimes there are panic issues with these folks, and minor outbreaks have happened, NONE of the serious violence or shooting has come from the ones interested in just their own survival.

There is the second set of people I already mentioned who have descended into lawlessness. They were the ones stealing and looting JEWELRY, MINK COATS, CASES OF BEER, DVD PLAYERS, and PLASMA TV's. They *are* setting up as active gangs, claiming territories, feuding with one another, and doing anything they can to keep ANY law enforcement out. An officer was shot *IN THE HEAD* by a looter taking *luxury items*. This is not an issue of survival. This is an issue of greed, anarchy, and the rank underbelly of human nature.

And the copters that have been shot at? They've been nowhere NEAR the shooters. They've all been actively trying to access hospitals, the convention center, or the superdome. They're being sniped at--not fired in reaction to, but shot at with set-up, premeditated snipings, sometines by multiple people, from rooftops some distance away. This is not panic, and this is not survival. This is... something I, for one, have no words for.

This is also my understanding of the situation in New Orleans at present.

And also my lack of understanding and words for the territorial buttheads who are preventing a more effective rescue attempt.

:foh: :sadeyes: :wah:

indebted
September 1st, 2005, 08:18 PM
I have another question...

We seem to be short manpower...so why not have the men who are displaced by the storm do some of the work.

It has many benefits. It would give them a sense of "ownership" of their future. It would build their faith in community. And it would help them see progress being made.

As for the cretins with guns who are shooting people...shoot 'em.

Shanti
September 1st, 2005, 08:21 PM
there is no violence at the convention center that this thread is based on.

Storm Moon
September 1st, 2005, 08:21 PM
Um, no. I disagree with putting those people to work. They're tired enough and most have had no food, water, medicine they need, or the rest they need. You know why they're acting so angry? The above I stated is EXACTLY why. If I don't go without eating, I get pretty damn anal myself. Also take it from someone who's PMS'ing to no damn end either.

Lunacie
September 1st, 2005, 08:50 PM
Why are there not more air drops of food and water? I donít know. Statistically the rescue workers may be doing all they can in a very difficult and heart-wrenching situation. Locating the survivors is probably a nightmare, getting food and water to them may be even more difficult.



I hope no one is being forgotten, but in the midst of this chaos that is quite possible.



Unfortunately the planning that was done in anticipation of such an event wasnít good enough. Hindsight often makes the planners look like idiots, but most of us look like idiots the first time we try something. It takes practice and experience to do it right. NO ONE has any experience with a disaster of this magnitude.



As far as the reporters sending back visuals, if they werenít getting word out they way they do in these situations, there would be millions of families and friends who were worried sick about what was happening. This way we know what is happening and what we can do to help. This way the world knows about this disaster and can hopefully get some kind of help organized. Getting organized and getting to the scene takes time.



Everyone who is trying to help the victims of Katrina has their own job to do, and each job is important in its own way. Could I keep filming as I watched people dying right before my eyes and not drop the camera and try to help? Probably not. But since I canít be there and help at all Iím not going to badmouth those who are risking their very lives to do whatever they can do.



I continue to send my prayerful energies to those who have lost so much, loved ones, homes, employment, everything but the dirty, smelly clothing on their backs. Iím not angry, Iím sad. So very sad.

Xander67
September 1st, 2005, 08:53 PM
Putting the displaced able bodied personell is a good Idea, and Im sure 4 to 5 month from now it will be something to consider, right now EVERYONE needs to get out of the city so the heavy machinery can begin to come in and pump out the water... they cant clear away rubble that they can not see or get to...

Xander67
September 1st, 2005, 08:55 PM
as for the looting, I dont think there will be much more of that once the National Guard and the !st Army MP's roll into town overnight ... They will have full authority under the state to restore order.

Teresa
September 1st, 2005, 09:15 PM
Right, that is all well and good but bad mouthing and getting angrier and angrier isn't helping the effort nor you my friend. Lets calm down and look at things from another angle.

First..turn off the Damn tv, walk away from it, go outside and feel the earth under your feet for a minute. Connect to that and allow it to fill you. Relax and take some deep breaths and do what you can for the suffering people in need, which has nothing to do with ranting and raving and posting angry messages of frustration at an alarmingly fast pace.

We obviously cannot get water to them ourselves right now, we can't fix the wrongs even though we can point them out. We don't need to point them out, that wont help. The one thing we can do is raise a hell of a lot of energy and focus it. Come on guys, why waste energy ranting when we could actually heal and help sustain suffering thirsty babies while they wait for the aid that will hopefully get there soon? We can even have those of us more adept in directing forces send energy that way and effect changes necessary to expedite the drop offs etc. However, we have got to be calm and rational ourselves or else we create more chaos for those who are trying to send what they can through the already stormy and turbulent waves.

:hugz: Your heart is in the right place Shanti..now turn off the tv for a while and go get it working girl.
Thank You for making this post! This is more proactive than just sitting here feeling sick about the whole situation.Everyone that can please move to our energy section thread and lets get the energies flowing to these desperate and hurting people and the rescuers that are trying to help them.

Doctor Jeep
September 1st, 2005, 09:32 PM
when the Tsunami hit, the whole world rushed in... the after effects of Katrina are compareable if not greater than this, and we are on our own....

If anyone wants to start pointing fingers, lets wait and see if we get help from other countries ...

You can stop waiting, and we are not on our own. The State Department has had offers of help from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, Greece, Mexico and many others.

Xander67
September 1st, 2005, 09:50 PM
Thanks for posting that Colbalt... :)

I was hoping that the other nations would help out... we help everyone else ..

This is comforting news right now.

Doctor Jeep
September 1st, 2005, 09:56 PM
Thanks for posting that Colbalt... :)

I was hoping that the other nations would help out... we help everyone else ..

This is comforting news right now.

Indeed.

Now, I saw that earlier today, Bush said something about not expecting help because we hadn't asked for it, and that we would take care of things ourselves. I sincerely hope that doesn't translate into our rebuffing any offers we've gotten.

Agaliha
September 1st, 2005, 10:21 PM
And it was SO nice of the president to take a break during his vacation to address this disaster.
I am disgusted.


I'm with you there. I can't stand Bush. The list of rants could go on and on.



they could of 'prevented' this.


Fox News (cable) reported about this hurricane in MAY. They even marked in bright red (the most damage) the are of N.O. In JUNE they updated the red area to the gulf coast areas. That was three months that they had to make sure things were better ready...
But nothing happened. No one too action and three months were wasted, leading to this chaos.



red tape....its bull.
desperate times need desperate measures.


I totally agree. Something needs to be done on the necessity levels.

What I really want to know is this: Where are the other counties offering to help us?!? I mean America helps just about everyone. Where is England saying "oh here are some spare miliary men and aircraft to help with the rescures or here are some supplies to help."
Where is any country even offering?? That's so annoying. We help everyone and no one helps us. They must really hate America?

Bush said they are sending trucks and truck of thousands and millions and tons of ice, water, food and blankets to the most hit areas...they do seem to be doing something...but when will it get to the people?? It will probably be too late.
N.O is estimated to be flooded for 6 months! How will all those stranded get out and get those supplies?



Time to take the gloves off. Shoot to kill......


I would agree, but what are they going to do with the dead bodies? There are already tons floating around not being taken care of. Shooting everyone is only going to cause more bodies and problems with sanitation.

Wait, I just read this:


You can stop waiting, and we are not on our own. The State Department has had offers of help from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, Greece, Mexico and many others.


So others are offering to help? I have not heard one thing about that anywhere. Where did you hear/read that?? I'd like to send it to my sister if it's a link.



Now, I saw that earlier today, Bush said something about not expecting help because we hadn't asked for it, and that we would take care of things ourselves. I sincerely hope that doesn't translate into our rebuffing any offers we've gotten.


WTF? _tsk_ I hate Bush. We need help! :flamer: Ugh. He needs to ask and we need to accept.

Agaliha
September 1st, 2005, 10:41 PM
Ok I found a news article about foreign aid.

Foreign governments line up to help after Katrina (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050901/sc_nm/weather_katrina_aid_dc_10)

Here are some quotes from it:

Accustomed to being a rich donor rather than on the receiving end of charity, the United States initially seemed reticent about accepting foreign aid, but later said it would take up any offers.

"Anything that can be of help to alleviate the tragic situation of the area affected by Hurricane Katrina will be accepted," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

Earlier, President George W. Bush said in a television interview that the United States could take care of itself.

The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates.

Assistance ranged from medical teams, boats, aircraft, tents, blankets, generators and cash donations.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon wrote to Bush offering medical teams that specialized in trauma and natural disasters and said they could be ready in 24 hours.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area...Chavez, who on Wednesday called Bush a "cowboy" who failed to manage the disaster.

Isil Darkmoon
September 1st, 2005, 11:47 PM
So others are offering to help? I have not heard one thing about that anywhere. Where did you hear/read that?? I'd like to send it to my sister if it's a link.

WTF? _tsk_ I hate Bush. We need help! :flamer: Ugh. He needs to ask and we need to accept.

All Foreign Aid Offers Will Be Accepted (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168203,00.html)
"With offers from the four corners of the globe pouring in, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (search) has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Thursday."

~Anamorata~
September 2nd, 2005, 12:15 AM
I heard on CNN earlier, and read it again, in the local newspaper, that New Orleans may never be rebuilt. Ok, good idea...you've moved other cities, why not move New Orleans somewhere else? I also, heard someone say, "Why would anyone want to live in a place like that? Knowing full well, a hurricane could come in and wipe it off the map. How stupid were these people?" This comment came from someone in Cincinnati, where, if I recall correctly, the flood of 1937, almost wiped Cincinnati off the map...yet, they choose to live there. Go ahead, ask stupid questions like that, and find out who the stupid one really is. :bastard:

narleymarley03
September 2nd, 2005, 01:02 AM
I just saw on MSNBC news that the astro dome is now full. I don't understand why we can't set up a temporary tent city with food and latrines until better shelter can be found. Also, we need to remember that New Orleans had a very high crime rate before the hurricaine. So why wasn't police help ready to come into the city?

Isil Darkmoon
September 2nd, 2005, 01:07 AM
I just saw on MSNBC news that the astro dome is now full. I don't understand why we can't set up a temporary tent city with food and latrines until better shelter can be found. Also, we need to remember that New Orleans had a very high crime rate before the hurricaine. So why wasn't police help ready to come into the city?

The Astrodome is full. There's still shelter space in Houston. Places are still being found for these people. The Red Cross has opened 19 shelters alone just for Katrina victims, in Houston alone. Nearly every area church has opened its doors. We're finding places for these folks. Just because there's no space left in the biggest central area doesn't mean they're getting turned away.

Old Witch
September 2nd, 2005, 01:26 AM
Unfortunately, some of the city's ...less desireable inhabitants are becoming a large part of the problem.

Selfstyled "ganglords" are leading thugs to do things like *break into still-active hospitals* and STEAL the 10 day's food and water stores they had in reserve for the patients and staff, *hijacking* full supply trucks of food and water, etc.

The same lowlifes are SHOOTING at any helicopter that's tried to get near the Superdome or the Convention Center. They've had to pull the choppers back until they get a much larger active military force on teh g round to end this.

The people that NEED the supplies, in these locations--they're not the problem. They're not the ones rioting or creating violence. But the ones outside, the ones turning the city into a state of anarchy... I feel those [censored] are far more to blame than the government or the military. The gov/military may not be doing "enough", but they're TRYING to do things. These worthless wastes of oxygen are ACTIVELY working to UNDO or PREVENT what others are trying to accomplish.

*Sigh*.

They need to get the military in there...If a person has a gun, they are told to disarm...If they don't, they die...

Branwyn
September 2nd, 2005, 01:58 AM
The hurricane center was reporting days in advance that this would be a killer storm. I do understand that there were people too old or too poor to get out of its way,

Out of the box thinking, which is something the mayor or NOLA didn't do. As he and the gov of LA were telling everybody it was a mandatory evacuation, as they were seeing their worst fears realized, they had fleets of busses. Surely, they could have said, "this is were the busses will be, if you are unable to leave by yourself, we will make EVERY city vehicle available to cart you out of here. Only bring yourself, some potable water and food. We will make sure as many people as can get on the buses, but we have no room for possetions." Yeah, a lot of people still would have stayed. But the ones who wanted to leave but couldn't? That could have saved a lot of lives, prevented a lot of what is going on now.


I myself said a couple days ago why can't the gov't comandere some cruise ships that are fairly close and put people in them. The gov't can reimburse the cost to the cruise companies. But they would have everything they need....the ships generate their own power, fresh water supply, and they carry quite a bit of food and have many restaurants to cook it. The idea is on the table, and I don't see why they don't go ahead and do it, but to claim we could have prevented it.....no, I don't think that's a fair statement.

I'm not sure there ARE any cruise ships in the area. And if martial law has been decreed (which I know it has been in some areas) the government can confiscate and use whatever they want. I'm pretty sure they don't HAVE to reimburse.

For those who are wondering why the news reporters don't give drinks out? They probably didn't go with more than they could use. Yes, it's wrong, but they were just trying to get down there. Also, if they don't have enough for everybody in the area, they could put themselves in danger by showing they even had some water or food. The looters are armed, and are killing people down there for things like water.

No, I'm not saying any of this is right. Just saying this is the way of it.

Isil Darkmoon
September 2nd, 2005, 02:16 AM
I'm not sure there ARE any cruise ships in the area. And if martial law has been decreed (which I know it has been in some areas) the government can confiscate and use whatever they want. I'm pretty sure they don't HAVE to reimburse.

For those who are wondering why the news reporters don't give drinks out? They probably didn't go with more than they could use. Yes, it's wrong, but they were just trying to get down there. Also, if they don't have enough for everybody in the area, they could put themselves in danger by showing they even had some water or food. The looters are armed, and are killing people down there for things like water.

No, I'm not saying any of this is right. Just saying this is the way of it.

There weren't any cruise ships in the immediate area--NOLA has mostly casino resort ships, all of which were destroyed. I know Carnival Lines HAS offered the use of a couple of its available ships, although they can each only support about 200-300 people. Far as I know, they haven't been taken up on it because there's no way to get the big ships in to the refugees, and the smaller motorboats they've been trying to use to get in to stranded people are getting shot at by gangs, so pulling people out by water has been just about impossible.

The problem with some of the other cruise lines is, if the ships aren't offered, they can't really be siezed. Nearly all cruise ships are registered OUT of the U.S--I think Aruba's a common location. This is done so that the ships fall under the laws foreign ships in international waters, instead of U.S. law--this lets them do things like run casinos on the ships, laxer liqour laws, and makes stopping at a lot of the destinations, particularly in central america and the carribean, a lot less complicated than if it were officially a U.S. ship. These can't be commandeered in the same manner that US registered ships could be.

Most of the reporter teams I'm aware of either have been, or still are, handing out food and water to the best of their ability. They were only able to bus things in on a very small scale (like news vans) but most of the groups handed out what extra supplies they'd brought until they ran out. They're trying to do what they can.

Exloration_La
September 2nd, 2005, 04:25 AM
while they starve the media etc says they need patience.

While they need food they bring machine guns

When they need food president bush asks specifically for CASH donations to the red cross only to be stolen like in 9/11. The food bank here offers REAL help

http://www.austinfoodbank.org/ (http://www.austinfoodbank.org/)

Isil Darkmoon
September 2nd, 2005, 04:42 AM
while they starve the media etc says they need patience.

While they need food they bring machine guns

When they need food president bush asks specifically for CASH donations to the red cross only to be stolen like in 9/11. The food bank here offers REAL help

http://www.austinfoodbank.org/ (http://www.austinfoodbank.org/)

Get your facts straight, and quit strewing highstrung, emotional, and innacurate conspiricy theories across the board.

bbnflpn
September 2nd, 2005, 07:09 AM
i was told about this and it made me so angry. we have always given aide to people that needed it (the sunami was a good example) and yet our own contry is haveing issues with helping our own. wtf. and no other contry that i have heard of yet has offered aide. what is the hold up these people need our help big time. i had an indepth conversation with my freind in new orleans and he is so upset about the whole thing he dosnt know what to do. lucky for him his fathers company is footing the bill for their motel and other costs. (his dad is in the city right now fixing things so they work again my freind and the rest of his family got out safely and are under alot of stress., they have gotten alot of support in texas where they are staying. discounts on their rooms and food. texas has been very supportive of this crisis.

Isil Darkmoon
September 2nd, 2005, 07:11 AM
we have always given aide to people that needed it (the sunami was a good example) and yet our own contry is haveing issues with helping our own. wtf. and no other contry that i have heard of yet has offered aide. what is the hold up these people need our help big time.

All Foreign Aid Offers Will Be Accepted (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168203,00.html)
"With offers from the four corners of the globe pouring in, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (search) has decided "no offer that can help alleviate the suffering of the people in the afflicted area will be refused," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Thursday."

There have been MANY foreign offers of help--even from countries we're not on the friendliest of terms with. And we're accepting them. We're not alone.

Tom Bombadil
September 2nd, 2005, 02:06 PM
I just saw on tv other areas like the convention center that was set up as a shelter before the disaster hit. The people there have been forgotten. A baby died from lack of water in front of the reporter. Another mother was crazed as she held her dying baby. These people are on day 4 with no water. They are dying.

I wish I'd been there. With a piece of plastic and a rock I could have gotten that baby all the water it needed. :goodgrief

Shanti
September 2nd, 2005, 02:13 PM
I just hope what happened, the neglect, the non-existent air drops of rations, the ones who died waiting, are not forgotten.

Penthesilea
September 2nd, 2005, 02:19 PM
I wish I'd been there. With a piece of plastic and a rock I could have gotten that baby all the water it needed. :goodgriefExactly. It is a dirty shame that they only way people can think to get water is from a tap or a bottle. Maybe we should add basic survival skills to the magical education that we give our children.

Lewen
September 2nd, 2005, 02:23 PM
Exactly. It is a dirty shame that they only way people can think to get water is from a tap or a bottle. Maybe we should add basic survival skills to the magical education that we give our children.

I think basic survival skills should be taught to ALL children in all the schools as part of their educational curriculam including learning how to swim. But since we know that the schools are lucky they even teach the basic r's anymore, I take it upon myself to teach my own how to survive. I agree with you.

DragonsChest
September 2nd, 2005, 02:35 PM
I don't get the piece of plastic and a rock thing. I'd still be thirsty, I guess. Can you explain? Thanks!

Agaliha
September 2nd, 2005, 02:37 PM
Doesn't it have to do with condensation from the rain that cane be collected or something...?

Shanti
September 2nd, 2005, 02:40 PM
I teach my kids basic survival skills. This entire family believes its an important part of life.
My SO saw on tv that its was raining where people were in a flooded area in NOLA. And one guy had an umbrella. My SO said, someone should tell that guy to turn the umbrella upside down to catch some of that rain.

Parents can teach...they too can learn.

Agaliha
September 2nd, 2005, 02:46 PM
I teach my kids basic survival skills. This entire family believes its an important part of life.
My SO saw on tv that its was raining where people were in a flooded area in NOLA. And one guy had an umbrella. My SO said, someone should tell that guy to turn the umbrella upside down to catch some of that rain.
Parents can teach...they too can learn.

Totally, Shanti.
My father, because he was a Navy Seal, he knows loads and loads of survival things. Some center around the climate and situation of Vietnam, but a lot are universal. He's told all these things to my younger brother and I (and let me just say: my brother is 14 and could teach a college class (seriously) on WW2, aircrafts, military wepons/guns and everything. He was rattling off the stats of a airplane in detail when he was 6! He really knows his stuff!). I forgot a lot of it, but I could always ask again. He also knows creepy things like how to rip off an ear in about three seconds! I don't usually ask about that crap though...he tells us all the time though (he has PTSD and I guess that's how he deals).
There are also survival/first aid classes offered by schools and the red cross. I took one.
Some things, like the umbrella are just obvious to me...but I gess when all you are thinking about it "got to get rescued" that doesn't enter your mind.

Tom Bombadil
September 2nd, 2005, 03:44 PM
I don't get the piece of plastic and a rock thing. I'd still be thirsty, I guess. Can you explain? Thanks!

Note this well: Dig a shallow hole, about a foot deep and a yard wide. This will of course depend on the piece of plastic you manage to round up, but the width of the hole is more important than the depth. Place some vegitation if it's available in the hole. You can wet this down if undrinkable water is available...you can also recycle urine this way. Place a cup of some sort in the middle of the hole. Cover the hole with the plastic sheet and weigh it down around the edges. You'll have to come to a happy medium between keeping the covering as airtight as possible and making it easy to put the setup back together when you take the plastic off to get at the water. If there are reeds or something you can fashion a long straw out of, you can put this down in the cup and be able to drink without lifting the plastic at all. If that's the case you can use the excavated dirt to hold down the edges...if you have to take the plastic off to get the water, do the best you can with rocks. Place a small rock on top of the plastic sheet directly above the cup. When the water evaporates out of the vegetation, water, urine, or whatever it condenses on the plastic. The rock makes a dip in the plastic, so that the water will run down to that low point and drip into your cup. It's a way to get water without having to boil it, which is probably pretty hard in NO right about now. I'm sure there aren't many shovels to be had, either, but if it were my baby's life at stake I have no doubt I could dig a few holes with my bare hands....bloody though they may be when I finished.

There is lots of good survival information available on the Internet. All a person has to do is educate themselves, and practice techniques like this one if possible.

Another handy bit of suvival info: wings and legs are indigestable but there's no bug in the US that will poison you by eating it. You can even eat bees if you boil them first. If bears can get fat and happy living off grubs, so can you! (Flies in instances like this will probably make you sick, though.)

DragonsChest
September 2nd, 2005, 10:02 PM
:nyah: LOL! Thanks for the info. It's a sign of our times that I had this in mind when the word plastic was used: a credit card. DOH!!! I couldn't figure out how in the world a credit card and a rock was going to get you water.

Never even thought that it might be a sheet of plastic. Not so sure nature means for me to survive a catastrophe! :yikess:

Tom Bombadil
September 3rd, 2005, 04:36 PM
:nyah: LOL! Thanks for the info.

I hope you never need it, but remember it if you do. (Of course, don't forget the rain water...easiest and best source if you can get it.)


Never even thought that it might be a sheet of plastic. Not so sure nature means for me to survive a catastrophe! :yikess:

Maybe if you beat the credit card with a rock you could squeeze some petroleum out for a fire... :smash: :toofless: :smash: A better use for them, in my opinion.

paygun
September 3rd, 2005, 04:42 PM
They'll start pulling out the reporters if this doesn't improve. The story will be that they have to get out for their own safety. Wait and see.

banondraig
September 3rd, 2005, 05:37 PM
They'll start pulling out the reporters if this doesn't improve. The story will be that they have to get out for their own safety. Wait and see.

that story by itself would show a thinking person how bad it is. oh wait, most people don't think anyway.

starry8847
September 3rd, 2005, 06:13 PM
I just hope what happened, the neglect, the non-existent air drops of rations, the ones who died waiting, are not forgotten.
It's up to those of us who have compassion for them to make sure they are remembered...some will simply move on!!! I will be honest to say that I had every good intention of doing at least a weekly candle for the great, 911 hole in the world and I have been very lacks in my devotion...it still burns in my heart and this Katrina monster will be along side of the Large Earthquake that took so many all around the world just a few months ago...To many people thought the "never happen to us" was our birthright... mother nature makes us realize we are just human! Blessings and love to all that are helping in hospitals, National guard, Salvation Army, Red Cross they need our strong support also!!! :awwman: :heyalove:

starry8847
September 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM
Yes Tom!!! :jawdrop: :money: wonderful Idea!!!! maybe you could compress and gather info and teach a class....I'm telling you, you could save lives!!! Also it could be possible that we all could loose our comforts that electricity brings us in the not so distant future and the computors will be history!!! Learn and teach how to survive ....from collecting fresh water to eating roots etc.............If I can help, I will...... am I freaked out enough for both of us??

starry8847
September 3rd, 2005, 06:38 PM
Thank you for really laying things out there!!!! I agree!!!! you said everything and more !!! Positive energy and loving thoughts...will help!!!not the "blame game"......things are going to take along time so there's months to either watch and keep score...or be loving and kind with thoughts and money if you can and help in a positive way!?! love your spirit!

Spera
September 3rd, 2005, 06:54 PM
*weeps*

Tom Bombadil
September 4th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Maybe you could compress and gather info and teach a class....I'm telling you, you could save lives!!! Also it could be possible that we all could loose our comforts that electricity brings us in the not so distant future and the computors will be history!!! Learn and teach how to survive ....from collecting fresh water to eating roots etc.............If I can help, I will...... am I freaked out enough for both of us??

:holycow: Survival is a skill...the biggest parts are having the right mind set and knowing and paying attention to your environment. Only you can develop the mind set and I don't know even where you live, so I'm not sure what more I could tell you that would be very useful. Sure, there's a bag of survival tricks (google 'survival handbook' for some) that could come in handy...but what good is it if I tell you to follow birds that eat grain to find water? It's still up to everyone else to find out what kind of birds eat grain where they live, and how to identify them, and to have the common sense to realize that this is a "get lucky" trick - if you waste your time waiting for birds you're likely to go without water for a loooong time. I might be able to explain how to build a fire, but there are umpteen different ways to light the darn thing without a lighter and none of them are easy. If you live in the city a fire is probably not going to happen, anyway. You're not likely to find downed wood in the midst of manicured lawns and green wood won't burn. Truthfully, I'd be almost as helpless as anyone else in the city and my first priority after the worst was over would be getting OUT. There are very few survival tricks that will work there...if you want water in a place like NYC, you're going to have to go to Central Park just to find ground to dig a hole in!! What kind of food would be available? Rats, tree rats, and rats with wings? You're likely to get sick eating city critters! When you think about it, it's no suprise people resort to looting and violence when a city goes down. Aside from what's in the stores, there's just nothing there. I had to move out to the country just to have a backyard vegetable garden! If you ask me, the people who steal electronics and jewelry are just people who have their priorities completely out of whack...for some, these kinds of things do mean survival, and NO it doesn't make any sense, until you think about the things society places value on, the objects that mean you're "succesful"...some people have never heard that food on the table means you're okay, only that Magnavox and Rolex means you're okay...all their lives! But how am I supposed to teach survival skills to someone like that?? Are you so sure that's not you? If you're the kind of person who says "I couldn't live without Diet Coke" all the time, you're probably right!

As for developing the mind set, I guess the biggest piece of advice I can give is to take up backpacking. You go out into the wilderness with only what you can carry, and after a few miles you'll already be thinking of ways to use what's already there to lighten your load next time. That's the most important part right there, thinking. Prioratizing. Adapting. I'm completely at a loss how I'd get across the importance of water when the majority of people don't even drink it as it is! You may listen and understand intellecutally so many gallons per person per day, but it's still not going to be the same until you've been out gathering your own water for a week. That's not the same as listening to your body when it tells you what it needs. I can't teach you to hunt over the internet, and even I don't practice some of the techniques I know intellecutally because they're either illegal or cruel if not neccessary. I don't know if you'd believe me if I told you food is usually last on your list of things to aquire in an emergency, until you'd been without for a few days and come out none the worse. In a survival situation, there are so many options to be considered and priorities to get straight...sometimes all in a few minutes! You're only going to pull this off successfully if it's ingrained, something you've been doing all along. So if you want a class, consider your first assingment to be proactive and learn these things for yourself. Figure out how to learn them. Figure out whatever you may need to unlearn. Start small, and work up to harder challenges. Survival depends a great deal on being able to do things for your self, so I think it would be wrong of me to take this most important lesson away from you by feeding you the information and leaving you with a false sense of security. :( Get out of your house and away from the tap and the car and see how well you do! If you fail miserably, ask yourself why and take steps to find out what you could have done differently, then do it again!

RhiannynWildseed
September 4th, 2005, 05:23 PM
There weren't any cruise ships in the immediate area--NOLA has mostly casino resort ships, all of which were destroyed. I know Carnival Lines HAS offered the use of a couple of its available ships, although they can each only support about 200-300 people. Far as I know, they haven't been taken up on it because there's no way to get the big ships in to the refugees, and the smaller motorboats they've been trying to use to get in to stranded people are getting shot at by gangs, so pulling people out by water has been just about impossible.

The problem with some of the other cruise lines is, if the ships aren't offered, they can't really be siezed. Nearly all cruise ships are registered OUT of the U.S--I think Aruba's a common location. This is done so that the ships fall under the laws foreign ships in international waters, instead of U.S. law--this lets them do things like run casinos on the ships, laxer liqour laws, and makes stopping at a lot of the destinations, particularly in central america and the carribean, a lot less complicated than if it were officially a U.S. ship. These can't be commandeered in the same manner that US registered ships could be.

Most of the reporter teams I'm aware of either have been, or still are, handing out food and water to the best of their ability. They were only able to bus things in on a very small scale (like news vans) but most of the groups handed out what extra supplies they'd brought until they ran out. They're trying to do what they can.

Actually, Carnival canceled 3 scheduled cruises and is sending those ships to serve as temporary housing for evacuees. They say they can accomodate up to...I believe...7000 people.

Carnival Sends Ships (http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1125825445122680.xml&coll=3)

Ships to Serve as Temporary Shelter (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8CCTKJO1.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&chan=db)