Does one keep their Zodiac sign when they're reincarnated???

[The Suckling]

It would only make sense to me that a person would keep their sign, for would they really be the same person otherwise??? Still, I am only scratching the surface on astrology and someone might be able to support or contradict this.

Help anyone???

[Methanespirit]

T.S.; Views on reincarnation vary from person to person. Speaking for the Occult community, it is unlikely that a person would keep the same sign from one life to the next, that is, according to the "guiding spirits". That there is no formula to determine what was the birth data of a person in a former life. For even the "guiding spirits" do not comprehend time and therefore any answer to this question which is received ,via a medium from them is at best, unreliable. Also, if you should ask another "spirit guide" about a former life, you will probably get an entirely different answer. It is impossible to "pin them down" to get a conclusive and consistant reply. And besides, any birth data of a deceased person of one's former life must fit the karmic implications which dictate one's present existence. I have yet to see this demonstratable,

The reincarnation theory is self contradictory, in this writer's opinion, in that it denies death,because it denies the original purpose of the human body. What are the graveyards full of? If reincarnation were provable by the person who claims to be reincarnated, without reverting to spiritism to reinforce the claim, then we could accept the metaphysical phenomena as a possibility. But that it denies death,( by claiming such to be only illusionary,) of the person by stating that the human body is expendible, and that the real person resides in the soul, appears somwhat tongue in cheek, especially when one considers the teaching's source; Spiritism! I say that the origniators of reincanation idea denies death because there are too many factors contained within each human body which indicates that originally, the body was not meant to die. For example, how many ovums does a mature young woman have in her body. I have heard as many as 300,000! Divide that number by the amount of Lunar cycles in a year (13.36823) = 22,441 years! A body must be present before the consciousness of a soul can come about. This accounts for the Astrological fact that the moment of the first breath is the actual birth time. Therefore, the body is very important and must pre-exist before a soul can be inextricably become part of the body. That a living and breathing body is necessary before the formation of the soul can come about, and in view of the foregoing the body is the soul's permanent home because without a living body, there can be no soul. But through death, the soul consciounsness becomes detached, but not an independantly dynamic entity -as the advocating spirits of reincarnation claim. It is only through death that a separation of soul and body can occur, therefore death is a reality, and not an illusion. A departed soul at death has no power to do anything, much less, join itself to another body, namley because it has no vehicle (a physical body) in which to move about and manifest itself. If the Astrologically inferred heavens were repeatable, then one could possibly beleive that a former life was reincarnated into a new body. But that they are continually changing and do not simultaneously repeat their positions , infers that each human body with its indivisable soul is a new and unique individual. that any memories of a "past life" are mostly due to the association influences of attending spirits who claim to be departed souls of mankind, especially those of each living person's distant family.

These concepts are the opinion of this writer, and in no way reflect the ideas and beliefs of those of Mysitc Wicks. In fact, my position on this issue is in the definite minority. You will, no doubt, read many posts that contradict the foregoing, not only in this forum but on the others as well. You must decide, if you havn't already. I'm presenting the opposing viewpoint.

.................Methane (CH4)

[The Suckling]

Ok, thanks!!!!

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

Personally, I think that Reincarnating gives you the opportunity to "change roles" like in a play. You 'd get more variety of experiences and opportunity for growth. I feel the soul needs growth.....and to get that, I don't feel you could do it being the same sign every time you incarnated. That's just my .02 though.

[Kadynas]

I read so much that I can't remember where I get everything from! :lol: But from what I've heard, and I tend to go along with this theory, our natals charts are a part of the design for our spiritual evolution, so to speak...during the time between lives, you actually choose your own birth chart based on what lessons you need to learn or what things your soul wants to experience. We all have an inner self, the soul part of us, and that is the part of us that never dies. Our specific natal chart, effectively our map of our plans for the current life, this will change with every incarnation. So will certain aspects of our personalities, which change as well, just like we leave one body and are reborn in another.

I know not everyone believes in reincarnation, but some of the theories that blend astrology with the ideas of reincarnation and karma make so much sense to me...

As far as keeping your sign...some sources will say you move through all the signs in order, first your sun, then your ascendant, and when you've "passed" all of them in each (sun and ascendant), you're done. This is assuming you haven't failed the lessons of one of the signs. I believe something similar...that we have to learn all the lessons through the signs, but I don't think it goes in a specific order like that. But I do follow the idea that we set our own paths in motion, that we choose our charts for the current life...and I'm sure at the time we have very good reasons for it! Just wish I could remember them now! :lol:

[Kadynas]

Oh and by the way, Methane, who ever said the theory of reincarnation denied the idea of death? At least from my point of view, there has to be death...like you said, and I agree, a point where body and soul seperate... I just mean that I think the soul chooses the moment of birth, and therefore has an idea which body it's gonna pick before then. If something happens to the body, the soul has to wait for the next chance...so I think it's definitely right that the birth chart begins with the first breath... :) Just clarifying in case I was confusing anyone....I tend to jump around alot when I write about stuff. :D

[Methanespirit]

Kadynas, I do remember something now, that was heard many years ago about the person's current Ascendant indicating where the (supposed) next life's birth Sun is to be located. and that the natalk Moon postion is where the "next life's" Ascendant is to occur. If this were provable like rulers of Ascendants, then I believe that we could place some creedence in Reincarnation. But unfortunately, there is no way of proving this idea. Also, concerning the question from you, I believe that they have been answered in the post. It is like many of the other posts, one must read them carefully. Due to the complexity of TS's inquirey, I tried to keep it as short as possible.

Also, that metaphysically, reincarnation is amiss because, increasing knowledge and life experiences have nothing to do with correting the original problem -death. If this increasing knowledge thing were true, the new bodies with their inherent souls could be created through knowledge alone!

hugs...................Methane (CH4)

[Kadynas]

I think I read the same thing somewhere! :D It's a very interesting idea to me...but you do have a point, it isn't proven, and there's really no way it can be I guess. But the whole idea of reincarnation just "feels right" to me. I can't explain it any other way... I have had a regression done on one of my past lives, and it was an amazing experience. Too bad I didn't think to ask what sign I was that time!

But really it's like watching a movie...at least for me it was...I saw "scenes" of things that happened, and I could tell who the people in the past were in /this/ life...but I didn't instantly know every detail of that lifetime or anything. The lady who did it says you tend to see what's most relevant or important to things in this life. And just for the record, I wasn't anyone famous! :lol:

I just think the idea that we choose our charts makes a lot of sense to me...:)

[Methanespirit]

Whether we belive in past life regressions or reject them, it is only possible through association with the spirits of the spirit world, and personally, I wouldn't place much confidence in what they say because of being notoriously deceptive and propigators of untruth. This accounts for the reason why even many tribal shamans do not accept much of what they say and show because they are familiar with their lying nature. I had some past life experiences also, mostly from ancient India, but they could be only seen through the eyes of a "spirit guide". If it were possible to establish the truth of the issue, through sources other than the "spirit guides", then possibly we could place more creedence into the idea.

..........Methane (CH4)

[The Suckling]

Well, after your genes and natal charts are cahnged what's left to make you an individual??? If you ask me, there is nothing, and we are really all part of the same thing.

[Methanespirit]

T.S.; that is a logical concludson IF you beleive God is Pantheistic. Pantheism in effect states that God is relative, and therefore there really is no God! That this belief makes everything out to be God; you, me, the trees and whatever. Pamtheism makes the most advanced creatures to be the spokesman of the ruling "God-head". This is because the idea is not parroted from any other source, except man.

If God is absolute, then this concept (although imperfectly understood) makes more sense, at least to this writer. An absolute God has made absolute laws to govern all that has been created. Without these natural absolute laws, then the entire universe woud be chotic, and nothign created would be orderly! Therefore, there is absolute: life, death, existence, governors, and laws which involves math, and physics. Like the stable Zodiac, there must be stability in all that is made, otherwise everything would be in relative chaos.


...........Methane (CH4)

[The Suckling]

Hmm, good point.

I think, then, I do believe God is absolute and pure, but unlike many who believe this, his/her laws would be completely pure and fundamental such as math and physics, like you said. None of this "Thou shall not covet thy neighbors ass; though shall not lie with mankind as with womankind" nonsense.

I guess my question is, what seperates one soul from eery other soul if it's personality isn't fixed???

[Kian]

I think that if we are going with the increasing knowledge idea, then our souls would have to be somewhat fixed because if we were always changing personality types and whatnot, how could we know what lessons we needed to learn? If we go with karma pushing us through, then if we change so much how can we pay our karmic debt? I mean, we all have certain personality traits, good and bad and in the lives we're all living now we know when we need (or hopefully we do) to change certain things about ourselves... did I just contradict myself? LOL

I think that some souls choose to come back and some don't. I believe in the concept of soulmates, of going through time with certain people. I have had several vivid dreams about people that I hadn't yet met and then I end up meeting them years down the road. The dreams are always vivid enough to make me remember them and so then when those people show up in my life I get a pleasant surprise!

I have done tarot readings and had them done about past lives and my personality stays fairly true to the personality that I have now, so I suppose my thought is.... I've stayed the same sun sign throughout.

:P

[Methanespirit]

I suppose the main reason for discounting Reincarnation is that it teaches self-reformation through good works. This concept claims that we all have the "good-works" mentality (knowledge) within us and that it requires various life situations to bring it out. If self-reformation were the criteria for not having to reincarnate, then what is there ,that is within us, that causes us to get something for nothing? In order for anything or anyone to better lts/themselves, they must of necessity, be linked with a power that is higher than themseves. This is a fundamental law of the universe. This is one of the reasons that causes me to believe that reincarnation teaches, "getting something for nothing". Also, since reincarnation automatically accepts the idea of God being Pantheistic, why should God run His people through the "grinder" of life, especially since it is futher taught that we are placed here through deception. Therefore God is also the author of deception and untruths, (until we learn enough to free ourselves from it.) It doesn't make sense especially believing in a Pantheistic God. Also, this same concept makes God out to be relative and not absolute.

..........Methane (CH4)

[Litha]

Originally posted by The Suckling
I think, then, I do believe God is absolute and pure, but unlike many who believe this, his/her laws would be completely pure and fundamental such as math and physics, like you said. None of this "Thou shall not covet thy neighbors ass; though shall not lie with mankind as with womankind" nonsense.

This is the difference in Deism and nature religions vs. Theism and revealed religions. Some interesting stuff on this:

Since we know we did not create the creation or ourselves, yet we and the creation do exist, it is logical to believe that an Eternal Cause or Creator(s) created us. This belief has absolutely nothing to do with revealed religion. In fact, all the absurdities of revealed religion are responsible for many sincere thinking people to reject and close their minds to natural religion/Deism. The priests, ministers, and rabbis need to suppress, or at least complicate, the pure and simple belief and realization of Deism for their own job security. And the power elites have no use for Deism because they can't use Deism to "inspire" mankind to wage war against itself for the elitists' own selfish purposes.

Because Deism is based on nature, the laws of nature, and the creation, it is a natural religion as opposed to revealed or man-made artificial religion.

The following quote from Thomas Jefferson points us in a direction free of the confusion of priest-craft and revealed religion:

"I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition. The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces; the structure of the Earth itself, with its distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere; animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles; insects, mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organized as man or mammoth; the mineral substances, their generation and uses, it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe, that there is in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a Fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their Preserver and Regulator, while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too, evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power, to maintain the universe in its course and order."

[Sequoia]

hmm. . . . very interesting, all of this!

Although- bleh! ^^; too much God involved for my taste! hehe

I have come to realize that, at least for me, personality is NEVER just one thing!

the exact same soul with the exact same birthdates and times over and over will STILL live a different life each time. Where they grew up. Who raised them. How long they lived. What kinds of challenges occured in their lives.

I think that any "present" personality is relative and composed of any and all prior elements. EX: You might have a phobia from an event in a past life, just as you might have a phobia from an event in your childhood. What happened in a past life, how you grew up so many times, perhaps if your sign changed, how it changed, could effect you. There are many many variables! Not the least of which being how you view yourself right now. Because a Scorpio can be as stable and predictable as a Libra. . . if she thinks she is.

It's a big mush-pot of past experiences, whether this life or another. It's a mush pot of soul personality, genetic personalitys and dispositions, psychological things, astrological things. . . it's a great big mess! ;) hehe