Surviving or looting?

[Exloration_La]

There is a small minority of people that have stolen thing s such as jewelry, and that is being used to justify HOLDING people in the city not allowing them to salvage for food and warm clothing that cannot be resold any ways. Some people tried to leave the city and were stopped with shoot guns. The people where searched for drugs and people are just trying o survive by doing what is necessary and they are being stopped by forced for salvaging for food while they are refused food or to leave all this energy is being spend and used to bring in machine guns and bullets to try and stop people trying o survive instead of bringing them food. If your watching the news you will notice mixed information coming in. a news reporter on CNN was threatened with being tax audited for the rest of his life etc for saying some things that did not sound supportive of how the government was handling the situation. (free speech?) Can news really report what is going on without threats? Why was the news prohibited to talking to the people at times in the stadium?


There are food available to put in there yet it is not there and supposedly all those starving people are dangerous so military people can’t go in there !! ????? HOWEVER George bush suggest you give CASH donations to the red cross!! Why to buy more bullets to fights those “looters” Better getting these starving people under control so they don’t try and survive. Or how about 911 when it was discovered the red cross was stealing donations! All the while they block real help and haven’t dropped the food offered yet. I’m sure allot of people are watching and things will eventually get out .. How flamboyantly bad will they treat people before the public is sick enough? How much can they try and cover? Or will people cover tier eyes and ears to avoid feeling the disgust and shame of what is going on here in this situation? It’s defiantly almost unbelievable, and people don’t care to believe what isn’t pleasant.

I STRONGLY suspect some shady stuff is going on here and don’t trust that we are getting the full story as hinted and directly said by reports that they can’t get access to interviewing all the people in the stadium, and interviewing everyone etc. Keep your eyes open about this… Obviously I don’t think the gov has great interest in these poor minority people.

A movie “control room” talks about how the media works. The government is holding these people hostage in the building to “protect” them against the rapist and “snipers” (who are these snipers really? And people they are trying to “protect” them from while authorities have forced people back with guns to go back to the stadium to starve.

Would you steal a car to get out of a city if your children where starving to death?


I wouldn’t be compliant with officers just standing there with guns keeping me from eating.

[Exloration_La]

White People find food and black people lot says article.

I'm not quite convinced it's all about racism although obviously it’s present, so much as maybe because they are poor people with less money they aren't being valued by our government.


http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/black_people_loot_wh.html (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/black_people_loot_wh.html)

[Isil Darkmoon]

I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's extremely... incomplete, and your poll is hideously skewed and violently opinionated.

CNN, or any other news source, can't and won't gi ve us all the news immediately. Since 9/11 laws have been put into place as regards live broadcasting without verification of the material. So there's generally a lagtime of 30 minutes-5 hours before we actually hear what's going on, if we rely on major news networks.

Military and police are *trying* to get everyone out of the city as quickly as possible. They don't want to keep people there. They want to evacuate. They are trying to keep things in order and avoid riots and fights and mobs, but they're evacuating.

The people that are being searched are the people they're *putting on board bu sses*. They're making sure these people don't have guns or drugs before evacuating them, as there already have been rapes, shootings, and beatings in the superdome. They're doing their best to not allow people on the evac busses with anything dangerous to other evacuees.

Police are leaving people alone who are looting food, clothing, and nessessities. They're actively telling them they won't arrest or hinder people taking things they need. A food and water drop was successful this afternoon at the convention center. At this very moment, there are 4 18wheelers full of MRE's just blocks from teh superdome in the process of being delivered.

They ARE taking action as best they can against people looting things like, oh, PLASMA TV's and MINK COATS. Or how about literally armfuls of guns? Up to adn including *M-16's*.

And don't even tell me those guns are for "self defense". They're not. They're b eing used by self-styled gangs and crimelords who are trying to take over parts of the city as their own personal "turf".

The refugees that are already in places of (minimal) shelter such as the Superdome adn the Convention Center ARE NOT the problem. It's the ones that refused to go to the public gathering points that are the issue.

Police are having to *ease back* on some of their evacuation effort because of these rogue criminals. These people are *breaking into active, still in service hospitals* to loot whatever they can--not just food and water. These people are hoarding stolen goods and shooting anyone that comes near. These people ARE *actively* hindering the rescue adn evacuation issues. They are committing premeditated snipings on food drop helicopters. They are shooting at any law enforcemtn officer that comes near.

They ARE a criminal element. And they ARE a problem. They need to be controlled before they cause more deaths. And they do need to be stopped, so rescue efforts--many by nonmilitary volunteer groups--CAN get into the inaccessable areas to find what survivors may be left before it's too late. Two guys in their personal motorboat don't have much defense against a thug witn an M16. But if they could get in, they could do a hell of a lot of good.

ALSO--cash donations are recommended because it's the most effective way to get thigns that are needed the quickest. The Red Cross does not, has not, and NEVER WILL put its funds to thigns like guns or bullets. Those are the charge of the military at the national level, and the law enforcement locally. The Red Cross legally can't supply these things to these institutions--and these law enforcemnet groups legally could NOT accept them if they were offered.

[Exloration_La]

I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's extremely... incomplete, and your poll is hideously skewed and violently opinionated.

CNN, or any other news source, can't and won't gi ve us all the news immediately. Since 9/11 laws have been put into place as regards live broadcasting without verification of the material. So there's generally a lagtime of 30 minutes-5 hours before we actually hear what's going on, if we rely on major news networks.

Military and police are *trying* to get everyone out of the city as quickly as possible. They don't want to keep people there. They want to evacuate. They are trying to keep things in order and avoid riots and fights and mobs, but they're evacuating.

The people that are being searched are the people they're *putting on board bu sses*. They're making sure these people don't have guns or drugs before evacuating them, as there already have been rapes, shootings, and beatings in the superdome. They're doing their best to not allow people on the evac busses with anything dangerous to other evacuees.

Police are leaving people alone who are looting food, clothing, and nessessities. They're actively telling them they won't arrest or hinder people taking things they need. A food and water drop was successful this afternoon at the convention center. At this very moment, there are 4 18wheelers full of MRE's just blocks from teh superdome in the process of being delivered.

They ARE taking action as best they can against people looting things like, oh, PLASMA TV's and MINK COATS. Or how about literally armfuls of guns? Up to adn including *M-16's*.

And don't even tell me those guns are for "self defense". They're not. They're b eing used by self-styled gangs and crimelords who are trying to take over parts of the city as their own personal "turf".

The refugees that are already in places of (minimal) shelter such as the Superdome adn the Convention Center ARE NOT the problem. It's the ones that refused to go to the public gathering points that are the issue.

Police are having to *ease back* on some of their evacuation effort because of these rogue criminals. These people are *breaking into active, still in service hospitals* to loot whatever they can--not just food and water. These people are hoarding stolen goods and shooting anyone that comes near. These people ARE *actively* hindering the rescue adn evacuation issues. They are committing premeditated snipings on food drop helicopters. They are shooting at any law enforcemtn officer that comes near.

They ARE a criminal element. And they ARE a problem. They need to be controlled before they cause more deaths. And they do need to be stopped, so rescue efforts--many by nonmilitary volunteer groups--CAN get into the inaccessable areas to find what survivors may be left before it's too late. Two guys in their personal motorboat don't have much defense against a thug witn an M16. But if they could get in, they could do a hell of a lot of good.

ALSO--cash donations are recommended because it's the most effective way to get thigns that are needed the quickest. The Red Cross does not, has not, and NEVER WILL put its funds to thigns like guns or bullets. Those are the charge of the military at the national level, and the law enforcement locally. The Red Cross legally can't supply these things to these institutions--and these law enforcemnet groups legally could NOT accept them if they were offered.

I'm sure there are some real criminals out there, but I wonder how many there truly are and highly doubt there are as many as there is being portrayed to be. Maybe just like he so called riot in Seattle where 9 people where hired to smash some windows so they could tear gas and beat down the whole crowd. It was interesting to see the full footage of what really happened and the cut up clips of what they media portrayed.

Look it up the red cross has stolen donations as in 911 and even back further they have a history now.

The Food Bank is collecting supplies for the victims and will get them to those
most in need. They are not asking for cash, but actual supplies that they can transport to the Gulf Coast and actually give to those in need
http://www.austinfoodbank.org/ (http://www.austinfoodbank.org/)

[Isil Darkmoon]

I'm sure there are some real criminals out there, but I wonder how many there truly are and highly doubt there are as many as there is being portrayed to be. Maybe just like he so called riot in Seattle where 9 people where hired to smash some windows so they could tear gas and beat down the whole crowd. It was interesting to see the full footage of what really happened and the cut up clips of what they media portrayed.

Look it up the red cross has stolen donations as in 911 and even back further they have a history now.

The Food Bank is collecting supplies for the victims and will get them to those
most in need. They are not asking for cash, but actual supplies that they can transport to the Gulf Coast and actually give to those in need
http://www.austinfoodbank.org/ (http://www.austinfoodbank.org/)


Cut the conspiricy theory crap. Seriously.

What research have you done beyond reading CNN headlines?

I've been listening to police scanners for the past 2 days, nearly all my waking time. I've been hearing things before the media shares them--and things the media hasn't. I've been networking with people I know in person, across five different states.

I've HEARD the gunshots. I've heard them trying, and failing, to get a team in to the Superdome to put out fires started by frustrated arsonists, because there was not enough manpower to PROTECT the firefighters from the rioting individuals. I've heard genuine fear in the voices of professionally trained law enforcement as they were unable to get themselves and their equipment in where they were most needed as they were being shot at. I've heard the requests of hospitals, hotels, individuals, begging for help, begging for a military presence as they had to contend with violent, armed gangs on top of worrying about supplies.

You spend a day doing your own research, listening with your own ears, then come back and tell me this is all just one big government conspiricy. I dare you.

And your original point was "the Red Cross funds were being used to buy GUNS AND AMMO", not that the Red Cross has had issues. But as soon as I corrected you, you changed your tune to "the Red Cross is EVIL and corrupt."

Yes, I'm aware the Red Cross has had funds mishandled in the past. It also came to public light and has been dealt with, and is being much more carefully monitored now and in the future.

There are orginizations collecting material goods--in fact, if you'd look, I *started* a thread linking to locations collecting physical nessecary items. These things are ab solutely vital in their place--particularly in the locations the evacuees are being taken to and will remain for a while.

However, these things work better if you're within a day's drive and can hand-deliver the goods yourself. Mailing bulky items such as clothing is remarkably inefficient because it not only takes some time to arrive, but then the shelters--who are probably already overwhelmed--have to allocate people to go through by-mail donations as WELL as the ones that are being walked in by hand. ALso, if they're brought something they know they don't need in person, they can just send it back with teh donator. They don't have the option to saying "no" to things in the mail--so they have to process them, and then also dispose of the things they can't use.

If you're not close enough to physically drop off the items yourself, donating cold hard cash--to the charity of your choice, not just the red cross--lets the orginization get what it really needs, to fill the gaps in physical donations, much more effectively than trying to donate goods remotely.

[omgboomlol]

Oh, man. You know, people looting in disasters is a completely new thing, y'know. I think it might be exclusive to Katrina! It's never, ever happened before, I'm almost sure of this.

Anyways, the point of your arguement seems to be a little stiled. Yes, stealing cars and jewelry seems a bit rediculous in the face of such a disaster, but, regardless it's bound to happen. And just because it's a disaster area doesn't mean it's totally lawless. So, your point is moot.

Also, everyone has already seen that image so you lose.

[Faery-Wings]

I can't vote in the poll. I feel that noneof the options really fit. If I had to steal something- food, water- to help my family survive, you bet I would. Fur coats, tvs, jewelry-- not a chance.

Isil, that was a great post. That is where a lot of my frustration lies- the rogue groups who are making it harder for everyone. I feel horribly for the law enforcement and rescue teams who are being hindered by these people. The sense of frustration, futility and panic they feel must be enormous.

Right now, it seems to me that they are doing the best they can to help NO. And no amount of judging, bickering, insinuating, blah blah blah is going to help them otherwise. Not saying that is what you are doing E_L , but everywhere inthis media/forums/etc there seems to be a lot of anger and heated opinions.

And this is just MHO. :)

[bbnflpn]

there is a differnce between greed looting and nessesity looting. i dont belive in stealing but if i needed food and clotheing for my family i would do it, and then offer to pay back what i had taken. i have no need for others personal belongings that is just greedy idiots that have no self control. and it makes me mad to no end i posted about this in another thread and well i am still upset about the whole thing.

[evilslinkycat]

If it came down to it in a survival situation, would have no problem taking food, water, cloths that my family would need to survive. As for other items, nope, why would i need a tv without power...

[Djinn]

White People find food and black people lot says article.

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/black_people_loot_wh.html (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/black_people_loot_wh.html)

That's all this situation needs...someone fanning the flames with racist nonsense. If you're going to post conspiracy crap, stick with Majestic 12 and the Tri-Lateral Commission.

BTW, BoingBoing is not a reputable source for anything. It's not run by professionals, it's just journalist wannabes saying whatever comes into their heads. Find me a reputable source that says "White people find food and black people loot" and maybe I'll listen. But I'll bet you can't find one.

[BeachWitch]

I can't vote in the poll because it is so hideously misspelled and as Isil pointed out, violently skewed.

I do have a question however.

In a time of disaster, when "fight or flight" kicks in, how does a person decide "Hey, instead of trying to save myself and get to safety, I think I'll just rape someone."

Or another question on my mind is how does someone, who is trapped on a rooftop decide that it is better to throw rocks, cans, debris, or better yet, shoot bullets, at the rescue team in rescue boats or rescue helicopters? Afterall, therein lies the only chance out of the watery hell, but instead, let's just shoot the rescuers!

Yep, it's all a conspiracy!

[Valnorran]

Wow! I just had a brainstorm! We could solve the problem of criminal looting (as opposed to those "looting" food and medicine purely for survival) and lack of food - kill the criminal looters and feed them to everyone else.

[pawnman]

There is a small minority of people that have stolen thing s such as jewelry, and that is being used to justify HOLDING people in the city not allowing them to salvage for food and warm clothing that cannot be resold any ways. Some people tried to leave the city and were stopped with shoot guns. The people where searched for drugs and people are just trying o survive by doing what is necessary and they are being stopped by forced for salvaging for food while they are refused food or to leave all this energy is being spend and used to bring in machine guns and bullets to try and stop people trying o survive instead of bringing them food. If your watching the news you will notice mixed information coming in. a news reporter on CNN was threatened with being tax audited for the rest of his life etc for saying some things that did not sound supportive of how the government was handling the situation. (free speech?) Can news really report what is going on without threats? Why was the news prohibited to talking to the people at times in the stadium?


There are food available to put in there yet it is not there and supposedly all those starving people are dangerous so military people can’t go in there !! ????? HOWEVER George bush suggest you give CASH donations to the red cross!! Why to buy more bullets to fights those “looters” Better getting these starving people under control so they don’t try and survive. Or how about 911 when it was discovered the red cross was stealing donations! All the while they block real help and haven’t dropped the food offered yet. I’m sure allot of people are watching and things will eventually get out .. How flamboyantly bad will they treat people before the public is sick enough? How much can they try and cover? Or will people cover tier eyes and ears to avoid feeling the disgust and shame of what is going on here in this situation? It’s defiantly almost unbelievable, and people don’t care to believe what isn’t pleasant.

I STRONGLY suspect some shady stuff is going on here and don’t trust that we are getting the full story as hinted and directly said by reports that they can’t get access to interviewing all the people in the stadium, and interviewing everyone etc. Keep your eyes open about this… Obviously I don’t think the gov has great interest in these poor minority people.

A movie “control room” talks about how the media works. The government is holding these people hostage in the building to “protect” them against the rapist and “snipers” (who are these snipers really? And people they are trying to “protect” them from while authorities have forced people back with guns to go back to the stadium to starve.

Would you steal a car to get out of a city if your children where starving to death?


I wouldn’t be compliant with officers just standing there with guns keeping me from eating.

1. It's "looting", not "lotting"

2. It is too dangerous for humanitarian work right now. The people (however small the minority) who are engaged in the full-scale looting, the taking of TVs, jewelry, etc, are shooting at police officers and soldiers trying to help them evacuate and bring in food. An Army helicopter delivering fod supplies to the Superdome came under fire as it tried to land and had to abort the mission. There really are people being raped and killed in the Superdome and elsewhere in New Orleans. The criminal element is using the cover of this disaster to full effect. I think the governor of Louisiana was remiss in not putting the National Guard on standby before the storm hit, and deploying them throughout the city as soon as practical. Now the National Guard will have a hell of a time taking the city back from the criminals.

Would I take food if necessary? Probably. Would I shoot at a cop? No. Would I listen to the people trying to help me and follow their directions? Of course.

[Flar's Freyja]

Right now, it seems to me that they are doing the best they can to help NO. And no amount of judging, bickering, insinuating, blah blah blah is going to help them otherwise. Not saying that is what you are doing E_L , but everywhere inthis media/forums/etc there seems to be a lot of anger and heated opinions.

And this is just MHO. :)

and that energy would be better spent doing something constructive to help.

[semi]

New Orleans had a serious gang problem before the storm. I think It's mostly these gangs that are doing the looting. Regular citizens, regardless of ethnicity, are just trying to survive and make it out alive. The gangs are the ones shooting at rescue workers, police, etc. and stealing anything to possibly make money with. My opinion/theory.

[Galaxia]

Ω

[Shanti]

One thing I know....
A choice between sitting around and taking the chance of dying while waiting for help or taking the chance of dying trying to help myself/family.

I would rather die trying than die waiting.

[Meadhbh]

As others have pointed out theres a diffrence between taking a tv because you can and taking food so you can eat. The sad thing is as long as those people who are simply looting for sake of taking things are preventing everyone from getting the supplies they need, adding more people willing to steal or use voilence to get what they need to stay alive. What is really a sick thing is, I heard some where I forgot the exact place. Is that their are people comming in from other areas to to loot what is left.

If it came down to it I would take whatever I could to stay alive. Food, clothing, ect. I would not take things that I didn't need theres reason for stealing food in the like theres not for money and jewerly.

[Exloration_La]

Cut the conspiricy theory crap. Seriously.

.

I saw it all on the news. Maybe you should open your eyes.

As reported on CNN people were trying o march out of the city where corpses where rotting and conditions are getting worse, and they were faced with police officers with shotguns to go back to the stadium!! Yet earlier they told people to stay at the stadium to “protect” them against snipers and rapist, so I ask who is these snipers that want to use force to keep the people in the city really?

And why did that guy on CNN say over the air he was threatened for criticism how the situation was being handled?

CNN states there are people in the dome they are not allowed to interview.. WHY? Officers refused to talk.. where they ordered not to? Seems only a select few are chosen as spokespeople for the situation, but fair reporting of the whole situation of what is really go gin on is prohibited, and CNN has said this explicitly and subtly several times. People are just to uncomfortable with what is going on to believe what is right in front of their face.

I suppose if you like you can filter information to make pretty so you can feel alright. Because I know I just try to see things for what they are and it's sickening.

Interesting to see contradictions on the news with what I suspect people trying to report the news that get scolded, and people just following their guidelines on how they need to report to censor and support a side etc.

I don’t think they will show some of the same footage that has been shown again and justifications and the politics will be coming trying o use their smooth talk to soothe things over about the situation. Funny to see how evasive questions where being handled, and I wonder if those questions will be allowed again?

[Pagan Mantis]

"If ignorance is bliss, then knock this smile off my face." This forum started with some illplaced information, thankfully there are people here that REALLY know what's going on. People are going to bang (gang activity) in cities, especially where there's poverty. People, we need to get over that, it just IS, and probably always will be. New Orleans is in poverty here, so people who are used to stealing are looting, thinking that they'll be able to get somewhere dry, or even be able to get a tv that's been soaked beyond repair to work. To the real matter at hand here, you betcha I'd steal whatever NECESSITIES for my family first, dog food, people food, clothes, whatever. The only disagreement I have here is, that's great that everyone's gonna loot for their family, but how the hell you going to save someone from another with a gun? So, yes, I'd pack some automatic protection fresh from the store as well, as a precautionary. My opinion, the police should understand if you were to return a fire arm to them once the situation has become safer, as I have no reason to carry a gun outside a situation such as this. I'm glad that people are paying attention to what is actually going on here, as I don't agree with the selfish looting either, the gang activity, or the unhumanitarian approach with rapes etc.

[Exloration_La]

Oh, man. You know, people looting in disasters is a completely new thing, y'know. I think it might be exclusive to Katrina! It's never, ever happened before, I'm almost sure of this.

Anyways, the point of your arguement seems to be a little stiled. Yes, stealing cars and jewelry seems a bit rediculous in the face of such a disaster, but, regardless it's bound to happen. And just because it's a disaster area doesn't mean it's totally lawless. So, your point is moot.

Also, everyone has already seen that image so you lose.

You sound very childish with your I lose you win thing LOL. Whose trying to win the cool guy winner contest?

I'm sharing my thoughts on what I think is important , and I'm glad the lady on CNN was brave enough to say that those kind of looters are the SMALL minority, because she had a conscience, because obviously they are being told to capture certain things to fit a certain story and make everything okay. Just like the “riot” in Seattle where the 9 hired people where smashing windows latter saw real footage of the majority doing nothing. In othe4 words it was s set up. The whole footage gave you a much different perspective then the certain selected footage. It would be like me recording what you say splicing pieces out ,and pulling them out of context to make them fit into story.

[Exloration_La]

That's all this situation needs...someone fanning the flames with racist nonsense. If you're going to post conspiracy crap, stick with Majestic 12 and the Tri-Lateral Commission.

BTW, BoingBoing is not a reputable source for anything. It's not run by professionals, it's just journalist wannabes saying whatever comes into their heads. Find me a reputable source that says "White people find food and black people loot" and maybe I'll listen. But I'll bet you can't find one.


Regardless of the source or not those are two real articles and I think its was interesting what was pointed out, and when you really look at the two articles no matter who points them out it doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t look good when white people reported to *find* bread, and black people *steal* bread

[~Anamorata~]

What are you going to do with TVs, laptops, microwaves and things like that? Food, clothing and meds, I can understand. But, things like electronics and useless things? No way. As for your information: where ever you're getting it, you might want to change sources.

[Isil Darkmoon]

Just like the “riot” in Seattle where the 9 hired people where smashing windows latter saw real footage of the majority doing nothing. In othe4 words it was s set up. The whole footage gave you a much different perspective then the certain selected footage.

I said it before and I'll say it again: do your OWN research, find your own facts, read adn listen to what's going on from people who are or were there. Take a look *anywhere* beyond a mass media network into what's really there, then look me in the eye again and tell me it's a set-up.

[~Anamorata~]

I said it before and I'll say it again: do your OWN research, find your own facts, read adn listen to what's going on from people who are or were there. Take a look *anywhere* beyond a mass media network into what's really there, then look me in the eye again and tell me it's a set-up.

_handclapp _handclapp _handclapp Very well said Isil!

[Galaxia]

Ω

[Lunacie]

My daughter says some of the customers at work today were complaining about some of the things they have seen looters carrying off - and really didn’t understand what some guy was going to do with stolen garden hose. Her co-worker said it would probably be used to siphon gas so someone could drive out of there, or use it to refuel boats to rescue others. Which makes me think that maybe some people are stealing jewelry because they will have to leave everything else behind and start a new life somewhere else with nothing at all. Selling some jewelry could buy them food and gas as they drive to another part of the country, or help them rent a new home and pay for the first month of utilities. I know that not everyone who is stealing and looting is doing it for those reasons, but some may be.



Some of those who are stealing “stupid stuff” or shooting at rescuers may be drug addicts who haven’t been able to get any more drugs and are going pretty crazy right now, a really bad situation for rescue people to face and for police and guardsmen to face as well.

[SilverMaiden]

I'd loot food, water and whatever familiy and I needed to survive. I don't think I'm craven enough to steal jewels or whatever, but I guess if I thought I'd need it to live and find a new place to live, I might.

[Exloration_La]

After hearing the CNN reporter on TV say he received a letter threatening to tax audit him for the rest of his life for talking badly of the government, and then seeing CNN cover the looting of uneasy things like that was all going on and then hear a news reporter brave enough to state that was only the small minority of the people doing that and that most of them where looking for food. It is obvious to me the media is told that to look for and shoot, and hearing news reporters say directly and suggest they are restricted on interviewing inside the dome. It’s obvious our media is not free. However some of them do have conscience and do slip cues and express their disappointment of what is going on as the reporter from MSNBC expressed disused and said more questions need to be raised.

Although I don’t trust that our media is allowed to fully cover events like they should and hopefully we can take our media back before it’s too late, but http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9120777/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9120777/) MSNBC dose have some things I think are important to look at.

Now I believe the administration better get busy to cover for themselves as the outrage has pushed them to act now. Otherwise I doubt they would have food now.

[9-2-2]

Oh, man. You know, people looting in disasters is a completely new thing, y'know. I think it might be exclusive to Katrina! It's never, ever happened before, I'm almost sure of this.

Looting during disasters is not a new concept. Looting occured during the tsunami / earthquake. Looting occured in warzones. Looting occurs in riots, and yes, they are small-scale disasters. Looting has occured when hurricanes came in and populated areas were evacuated, with the exception of the violently stubborn / bandits / etc. Looting has occured, additionally, after disasters.

[Lola]

When I first read the poll question...I kind stared at it for a minute because I have never seen such a screwed up poll!
I skipped it and went on to read others opinions and am sooo relieved that we all agree that this is the wwwrrrrooooonnnnngggg wwwwaaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!! to go about thinking about this disaster! I'm sorry 'Exploration La' but you have got it all wrong. This is not a black and white issue at all I'm not sure where you are from but there are alot of different beautiful colours and people around me and all of them are real walking and talking and feeling beings just like the peolple on TV.
You are sitting watching your CNN, which I guess you just got the clue that the media is not all true to fact (did any one else pay attention as we went to war or during the election?-I'm being sarcastic as I guess this guy did not pay attention then) the rest of us are doing what we can to help those in need.
WHATEVER THE RACE!
Get a clue guy! It seems that you have chosen your path and turned a blind eye to the real problem here!
As crazy as it seems that people are looting and shooting, there are people committing suicide and carrying aroud there dead loved ones...did you see that on CNN...how crazy is that ...and every colour of person is doing that.
Now visualize...really what would you do. Oh tough guy. You don't know if you lost your family and friends in the evacuation, you have no job, no home, no way to travel away, no food or water for two or three days (what would happen to your physique) everyone is telling you that help is on the way....for the last day or so. And you are a lucky one that has been moved to the top of a bridge.

Are you then going to look around and judge the colour of ones skin? I truely hope that you are a better man than that.

[StormwolfAvatar]

Oh, man. You know, people looting in disasters is a completely new thing, y'know. I think it might be exclusive to Katrina! It's never, ever happened before, I'm almost sure of this.

Looting during disasters is not a new concept. Looting occured during the tsunami / earthquake. Looting occured in warzones. Looting occurs in riots, and yes, they are small-scale disasters. Looting has occured when hurricanes came in and populated areas were evacuated, with the exception of the violently stubborn / bandits / etc. Looting has occured, additionally, after disasters.


I think that post was meant in sarcasm. I could be wrong, however, and am more than open to correction. Good information to have, though. *takes history notes*

Respects,
SWA

[Exloration_La]

When I first read the poll question...I kind stared at it for a minute because I have never seen such a screwed up poll!
I skipped it and went on to read others opinions and am sooo relieved that we all agree that this is the wwwrrrrooooonnnnngggg wwwwaaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!! to go about thinking about this disaster! I'm sorry 'Exploration La' but you have got it all wrong. This is not a black and white issue at all I'm not sure where you are from but there are alot of different beautiful colours and people around me and all of them are real walking and talking and feeling beings just like the peolple on TV.
You are sitting watching your CNN, which I guess you just got the clue that the media is not all true to fact (did any one else pay attention as we went to war or during the election?-I'm being sarcastic as I guess this guy did not pay attention then) the rest of us are doing what we can to help those in need.
WHATEVER THE RACE!
Get a clue guy! It seems that you have chosen your path and turned a blind eye to the real problem here!
As crazy as it seems that people are looting and shooting, there are people committing suicide and carrying aroud there dead loved ones...did you see that on CNN...how crazy is that ...and every colour of person is doing that.
Now visualize...really what would you do. Oh tough guy. You don't know if you lost your family and friends in the evacuation, you have no job, no home, no way to travel away, no food or water for two or three days (what would happen to your physique) everyone is telling you that help is on the way....for the last day or so. And you are a lucky one that has been moved to the top of a bridge.

Are you then going to look around and judge the colour of ones skin? I truely hope that you are a better man than that.


Really interesting too see you talking to me like this telling with comments OUT OF THE BLUE such as oh tough guy, and what would happen to my physique LOL. I little silly and off topic along with the other things you stated an made up and pulled out of nowhere LOL , and really out of NOWHERE

ANY WAYS : ) The situation is not being handled with the care and urgency it deserves, and those peoples lives are obviously not being valued by our government.

One thing that I think is especially disturbing to call out people trying to feed their children as common criminals for trying to get some bread.

[Lunacie]

Really interesting too see you talking to me like this telling with comments OUT OF THE BLUE such as oh tough guy, and what would happen to my physique LOL. I little silly and off topic along with the other things you stated an made up and pulled out of nowhere LOL , and really out of NOWHERE

ANY WAYS : ) The situation is not being handled with the care and urgency it deserves, and those peoples lives are obviously not being valued by our government.

One thing that I think is especially disturbing to call out people trying to feed their children as common criminals for trying to get some bread.

The situation in the aftermath of Katrina is finally being handled with care and urgency. It's an awful shame that it took so long for that to happen.

I haven't been watching much tv but I've been reading a lot of news reports and watching the videos on the internet and I haven't seen people calling anyone a "common criminal" for taking food or water or diapers or anything they really need to survive. In my opinion the criminals are those who are taking tv sets and computers and jewelry and fur coats, although I did explain earlier that they may plan on selling those things to pay for a new start since they lost everything else.

The REAL criminals are the ones who stole weapons and have been using them to shoot at innocent victims and shooting at the people who are trying to rescue those victims. The REAL criminals are the ones who take advantage of a situation like this to rape defenseless women at gunpoint. And that's my opinion.

[Exloration_La]

The situation in the aftermath of Katrina is finally being handled with care and urgency. It's an awful shame that it took so long for that to happen.


Yes it appears AFTER they received enough outrage it FORCED them to grit their teeth and take some action, but some have suggested they are getting some relief but just enough to calm the outrage of the severe lag there was in assisting the people in NO, so I hope they truly are getting all they need, because it's easy to show some clips of some people eating while neglecting to cover the whole since just as footage was taken of looters stealing was made to look like that was they majority of what was going on when in fact even the news reporters covering their own footage was brave enough to say it was the vast minority that was doing looting of things they did not need. Obviously they are being told what to cover in efforts to fit a certain story line. Also which has not been widely covered by main stream is why 60% of officers turned in their badges, because they where disgusted with the orders they where given to shoot looters which means getting food etc, but falsely portrayed was that they where cowards which was NOT the truth. Amazing spin and false reframe on the situation if you ask me.

[Isil Darkmoon]

Also which has not been widely covered by main stream is why 60% of officers turned in their badges, because they where disgusted with the orders they where given to shoot looters which means getting food etc, but falsely portrayed was that they where cowards which was NOT the truth. Amazing spin and false reframe on the situation if you ask me.

The number of officers that just failed to show up--none *officially* turned in their badges--was in the 20% range, not 60%. Your numbers are extremely incorrect. And the officers were SPECIFICALLY *allowing* and *protecting* people who were looking for food, water, and other survival goods. They were not shooting them, and were not ordered to shoot them.

[pawnman]

Yes it appears AFTER they received enough outrage it FORCED them to grit their teeth and take some action, but some have suggested they are getting some relief but just enough to calm the outrage of the severe lag there was in assisting the people in NO, so I hope they truly are getting all they need, because it's easy to show some clips of some people eating while neglecting to cover the whole since just as footage was taken of looters stealing was made to look like that was they majority of what was going on when in fact even the news reporters covering their own footage was brave enough to say it was the vast minority that was doing looting of things they did not need. Obviously they are being told what to cover in efforts to fit a certain story line. Also which has not been widely covered by main stream is why 60% of officers turned in their badges, because they where disgusted with the orders they where given to shoot looters which means getting food etc, but falsely portrayed was that they where cowards which was NOT the truth. Amazing spin and false reframe on the situation if you ask me.

Actually, most of them were disgusted at being shot at by people they were trying to help, and being ordered not to defend themselves. I'd have turned in my badge under those conditions as well.

[indebted]

I vote...I would have evacuated like everyone should have... and were told to.

[healeri2]

I would loot if I were poor, had no car to leave the city, and was starving and my babies had no diapers or formula, etc. I think America's biggest concern is always money, not people. It's sad that looting is being blown out of proportion - oh boo hoo, huge multimillion dollar corporations who have insurance up the yin yang are losing some of their precious material items.

Most people are looting for survival anyhow, but of course, the big corporations and material things are more imporant in the eyes of high society, not people. It's sickening.

If I had money, and had a car I would have left without worry as I'd likely have insurance on my home as well.

[pawnman]

I would loot if I were poor, had no car to leave the city, and was starving and my babies had no diapers or formula, etc. I think America's biggest concern is always money, not people. It's sad that looting is being blown out of proportion - oh boo hoo, huge multimillion dollar corporations who have insurance up the yin yang are losing some of their precious material items.

Most people are looting for survival anyhow, but of course, the big corporations and material things are more imporant in the eyes of high society, not people. It's sickening.

If I had money, and had a car I would have left without worry as I'd likely have insurance on my home as well.

Oh boo-hoo, small store owners don't, and explain that to the cops being shot at by gangs of looters.

[WokeUpDead]

If they're looting food it probably would have just gone to waste if nobody took it, if they are stealing material goods they are probably damaged anyways and useless to the owners.

[Jenne]

It's really sad that a lot of the police turned in their badges simply because of the stress of trying to keep it together out there while having lost their homes/families/etc. Two of them committed suicide (heard this on NPR this a.m.). They're turning in their badges, not necessarily because of the shooting, but mostly because of the stress. Their families refuse to come back and face Louisiana at all. Not that I blame them, at all.

But the rebuild efforts will take those willing to honor the service they were initially dedicated to along with all the volunteer and contract organizations that are showing up to help or are already there. What's truly sad is the amount of AWOL guys with huge heroic hearts out there who may be losing their own jobs but know they are the man for the job and are out there, picking up survivors everyday.:ack:

[KaliGiri5]

I think..
the day after..people looted as they will anywhere.
but once they seen how bad it really was..people went into survival mode.
i seen people walk off with electronics as I wonder where do they plan to plug that?
I imagine if i lived the same life I would have done the same thing.
people loot and take because they think the stores as well as the people with money can replace everything easy.."they won't miss it" type thing

[Lunacie]

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

Here is what one couple thinks:


http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026 (http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026)

[Darakash]

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

Here is what one couple thinks:


http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026 (http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026)

While this article has a somewhat right-leaning slant, it says many things that I have been thinking and stewing on for a while, such as:
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists—myself included—did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

One of the things that happened that really jumped out at me, was the the rapes, murders and assaults that occurred in the Superdome began no more than 24 hours after the hurricane! There was a doctor in one article speaking on Thursday, who said this. The rapes and murders that we heard about occurred on Tuesday and Wednesday. Yet, these horrible acts of violence have been referred to as people acting out of incredible stress and a lack of necessities...uh, they had supplies in the dome to last 36 hours...how do you excuse the rapes/murders that occurred on Tuesday, when the storm went through Monday afternoon?

[pawnman]

I think..
the day after..people looted as they will anywhere.
but once they seen how bad it really was..people went into survival mode.
i seen people walk off with electronics as I wonder where do they plan to plug that?
I imagine if i lived the same life I would have done the same thing.
people loot and take because they think the stores as well as the people with money can replace everything easy.."they won't miss it" type thing

Not anywhere. Unless I missed the stories of the roaming gangs in Biloxi. These people completely degenerated into anarchy, and there was no good reason for it. Especially the things that happened inside the Superdome.

[Lunacie]

It isn't only happening in New Orleans.

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/1826302.html (http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/1826302.html)

Bryant Bradley was in Mississippi working for FEMA to clear tree limbs in the areas devastated by Katrina.

There, it's a state of chaos where looters and other criminals roam the streets, while emergency workers are preoccupied with rescue missions.

Bradley became a victim, while trying to help victims.

Clifton Fitzsimmons says his son got paid that Friday. "Those thugs came up to him, put a gun in his side and told him to give them the money ... and they shot him. He made his way to the hotel. He died."

[Rowan MoonDragon]

CNN states there are people in the dome they are not allowed to interview.. WHY? Officers refused to talk.. where they ordered not to? Seems only a select few are chosen as spokespeople for the situation, but fair reporting of the whole situation of what is really go gin on is prohibited, and CNN has said this explicitly and subtly several times. People are just to uncomfortable with what is going on to believe what is right in front of their face.

Interesting to see contradictions on the news with what I suspect people trying to report the news that get scolded, and people just following their guidelines on how they need to report to censor and support a side etc.



You answered your own question. They are only allowing certain people to speak BECAUSE of the contradictions. What one person sees may not be what is actually happening....its what they WANT to see. They want to try to make sure that only the actual faxts are getting out. If too many speak about the truth of things, there are going to be people who take it out of context. They hear what the want to hear and see what they want to see. Just like you WANT to see conspiracy here. There is no conspiracy. Its a tragic situation that people are taking advantage of. The criminal element is stealing and raping and shooting. I'm sorry, I didn't see anyone steal food on the news...the only clips I saw of looting were tv's and jewelry. I think the MINORITY of the people are stealing the food and other items to survive. I think its the majority stealing because they can. I would if I had to. And keep in mind we have NO IDEA why it took so long for supplies to get there. I believe there is more going on behind the scenes than what we have been told thus far and there might be a very good reason why supplies weren't brought in in as timely a fashion as everyone thinks. I seem to recall that immediately afterwards, people were getting rescued off of the roofs of buildings. I honestly think we need to give the government the benifit of the doubt until we know for sure the reasons why. Sure, it could be totally f'd up, but then again, there may be a good reason for it. LIke I said, we dont know everything, and we probably never will. I'm so sick of people and their conspiracy theories on everything! Get the crap over it and do something to help. And you brought up about money donations....I plan on making a money donation to The Red Cross AND providing clothes, toys, books, games etc to the old Lowry Air Force Base here in Colorado because thats where we currently have over 300 victims staying. Instead of wasting your time bitchin about the situation, get off of your butt and DO something.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

Oh boo-hoo, small store owners don't, and explain that to the cops being shot at by gangs of looters.

not to mention that the items that are being stolen, like the tv's and such if they are still in good shape, the store owners have to pay for that loss with their insurance. If the items were still good, then he'd still have them but since they are stolen it makes his insurance claim that much larger and, folks, the rest of us are affected by those increased insurance rates.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

After hearing the CNN reporter on TV say he received a letter threatening to tax audit him for the rest of his life for talking badly of the government, and then seeing CNN cover the looting of uneasy things like that was all going on and then hear a news reporter brave enough to state that was only the small minority of the people doing that and that most of them where looking for food. It is obvious to me the media is told that to look for and shoot, and hearing news reporters say directly and suggest they are restricted on interviewing inside the dome. It’s obvious our media is not free. However some of them do have conscience and do slip cues and express their disappointment of what is going on as the reporter from MSNBC expressed disused and said more questions need to be raised.



first of all, you can NOT take that seiously. Thats just a bunch of malarkey. She has no idea who REALLY sent the letter. You have no clue who the heck that came from. I mean, geez, when crap happens that people aren't happy with, the looney tunes people come out from under the rocks. Look at the guy who said he'd kill the girl who accused that basketball player of rape. Please forgive me, I cant remember who it was but the trial we here in Aspen Colorado. Anyway, he didn't like that she was accusing this basketball star of rape so he threatened to kill her. Same type of thing. Seems to me you need to take some information with a grain of sailt and keep trying to pin everything on a conspiracy theaory. You have rose colored glasses on my firend.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

You sound very childish with your I lose you win thing LOL. Whose trying to win the cool guy winner contest?


actually, YOU are the one thats sounding childish.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

ANY WAYS : ) The situation is not being handled with the care and urgency it deserves, and those peoples lives are obviously not being valued by our government.
.

theres only so much a person can do when they're being shot at. I'm sorry, but if I'm flying a helicopter and I'm trying to save seomone from a roof top and I'm getting shot at....that person on the roof is on their own. There are too many instances of the authorities getting shot at. You seriously need to do your homework.

[Lunacie]

Um, when things start to get personal instead of dealing with the topic, the thread tends to get closed.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

My daughter says some of the customers at work today were complaining about some of the things they have seen looters carrying off - and really didn’t understand what some guy was going to do with stolen garden hose. Her co-worker said it would probably be used to siphon gas so someone could drive out of there, or use it to refuel boats to rescue others. Which makes me think that maybe some people are stealing jewelry because they will have to leave everything else behind and start a new life somewhere else with nothing at all. Selling some jewelry could buy them food and gas as they drive to another part of the country, or help them rent a new home and pay for the first month of utilities. I know that not everyone who is stealing and looting is doing it for those reasons, but some may be.



Some of those who are stealing “stupid stuff” or shooting at rescuers may be drug addicts who haven’t been able to get any more drugs and are going pretty crazy right now, a really bad situation for rescue people to face and for police and guardsmen to face as well.

that's very true. I thought of that myself....but who wants to drag around tv's? that's a little overboard. I'm sure some of the people stealing are going to use the stuff to get money to start over again. I cant blame them. It's all about the reason behind it. However, I think most of the people are just taking advantage of the situation, unfortunately.

[Pure Ahimsa]

I respect people who break into stores for food, drinks, clothing, blankets, hygenic items, etc.

But I dont respect the people who are stealing TVs and such.

[indebted]

How about instead of ranting and raving on this board about who is or isn't right...

GET OUT AND DO SOME RELIEF WORK!!!!!!

Goodness knows I have been too busy doing that for the last week and a half (and will be next week too) to even bother looking in here...and you guys are still out there honoring the criminals...

*shakes head*

[Isil Darkmoon]

How about instead of ranting and raving on this board about who is or isn't right...

GET OUT AND DO SOME RELIEF WORK!!!!!!

Goodness knows I have been too busy doing that for the last week and a half (and will be next week too) to even bother looking in here...and you guys are still out there honoring the criminals...

*shakes head*

I kind of resent the fact you're assuming some of us AREN'T. :bastard:

[Alaiyo]

Or that some of us have chosen to help in another way.

[Raintreewolf]

Well, I think if you are in a natural disaster ones morality swerves towards servival...I not see gaining food however I could, for me and my family and clothes maybe even transprtation as stealing at this point....though, I do not see any need to take something other than what aids the immediate servival needed....and gold from a jewlery store or someone's TV are some of those unnecessary things.

My mate ( who's family lived in New Orleans all got out with the warning ) but he informed me that there are always dead bodies there, they have a problem with them surfacing if you bury them do to the water table, that is why they put them in tombs above ground. So, there are more than likely lots of really old and desicated bodies floating around besides those that are more recent. Grim thought, but the truth.

I don't know why they will even rebuild the place....it is not a smart location to begin with.

I'm actually fairly peeved about all the money we paid them to prepare for such an event and clearly it was squandered on other things. I do not want to give them more money in hand, I would rather have us do the work and not leave it up to the state to be responsible.

[Lunacie]

I kind of resent the fact you're assuming some of us AREN'T. :bastard:

Exactly right! I've been stuck at home with two sick children and have a cold virus myself. Now is not a great time to share that with the community at large eh? I've been sorting through clothing and bedding and putting together packages to drop off for shipment, including disposable diapers and wet wipes.

And those who can only light a candle and send energy are also doing something, maybe all they can do, and its a good thing they're doing. I've been doing it since before Katrina hit Florida, and I'm continuing the energies for those who have lost loved ones, lost their homes, lost everything they own, even lost hope for the future.

[Raintreewolf]

My daughter says some of the customers at work today were complaining about some of the things they have seen looters carrying off - and really didn’t understand what some guy was going to do with stolen garden hose. Her co-worker said it would probably be used to siphon gas so someone could drive out of there, or use it to refuel boats to rescue others. Which makes me think that maybe some people are stealing jewelry because they will have to leave everything else behind and start a new life somewhere else with nothing at all. Selling some jewelry could buy them food and gas as they drive to another part of the country, or help them rent a new home and pay for the first month of utilities. I know that not everyone who is stealing and looting is doing it for those reasons, but some may be.



Some of those who are stealing “stupid stuff” or shooting at rescuers may be drug addicts who haven’t been able to get any more drugs and are going pretty crazy right now, a really bad situation for rescue people to face and for police and guardsmen to face as well.

Nice point. There were people asking and wondering if this was Armageddon. No telling how deep your quest for servival ( and the adrenaline that comes with it ) will grow.

on another note:

Somwhere else mentioned in this thread a few wrote on, that people should have gotten out with the warning. I know that there would be some who could not comply for various reasons......but it seems a great deal of people just stayed because of bull headedness and not believing it could be this bad. I say, leave if you can with a warning even if it is a false alarm.

I just can't imagine how horrible the experience all the way around for everyone is. Who could have knowen it would be this big? Or bigger? How do we prepare for that?

I think those of us who are not going and helping could help by trying to focus on how you are your community servives whatever natural disaster night happen in our own areas. We should all learn from this and some of us can start acting on that side of things because you never know when it will happen to you.

Here is the Black Hills of SD, it would seem there would mostly be a hurrican, servere freezing for too long or death from Yosimite errupting but when I came here I learned about the great flood of 1977, I believe it was, hundreds died in it in Rapid City. That was one of those fluke occurances....you just never know.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

Um, when things start to get personal instead of dealing with the topic, the thread tends to get closed.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I got too personal and strayed from the subject. No more than anyone else.

[pawnman]

Nice point. There were people asking and wondering if this was Armageddon. No telling how deep your quest for servival ( and the adrenaline that comes with it ) will grow.

on another note:

Somwhere else mentioned in this thread a few wrote on, that people should have gotten out with the warning. I know that there would be some who could not comply for various reasons......but it seems a great deal of people just stayed because of bull headedness and not believing it could be this bad. I say, leave if you can with a warning even if it is a false alarm.

I just can't imagine how horrible the experience all the way around for everyone is. Who could have knowen it would be this big? Or bigger? How do we prepare for that?

I think those of us who are not going and helping could help by trying to focus on how you are your community servives whatever natural disaster night happen in our own areas. We should all learn from this and some of us can start acting on that side of things because you never know when it will happen to you.

Here is the Black Hills of SD, it would seem there would mostly be a hurrican, servere freezing for too long or death from Yosimite errupting but when I came here I learned about the great flood of 1977, I believe it was, hundreds died in it in Rapid City. That was one of those fluke occurances....you just never know.

Difference being, these people DID know, and the city had a plan to evacuate those unable to evacuate themselves. The local and state government had ample warning to issue mandatory evacuations, but they hemmed and hawed, and it cost lives.

[indebted]

red karma for saying I would have evacuated...okaaaaaayyyyy that makes sense.........

NOT

But at least someone read what I had to say, so it paid off.

[indebted]

To those who got offended by me saying get out and do something...

Dressing and lighting candles is doing something.

Sitting here and bitching is not doing something helpful....


So, didn't mean to hit those who are helping...but I can guarantee there are those in this thread who are doing nothing more but trying to justify their position as valid. That and just generally bitching and moaning.

[9-2-2]

To those who got offended by me saying get out and do something...

Dressing and lighting candles is doing something.

Sitting here and bitching is not doing something helpful....

So, didn't mean to hit those who are helping...but I can guarantee there are those in this thread who are doing nothing more but trying to justify their position as valid. That and just generally bitching and moaning.

You make a pretty valid point, and I bet you got that touch because someone overreacted and thought you were trying to make a personal attack. Happens quite a bit on MW, and in this state. I gave you a karma poke, because I think it's more important to stick to your guns than to succumb to people's whining.

I do agree... get out and help, even if it's just by donating 1 cent, or one glove. If you're just gonna sit and get pissy, your energy is better spent doing more selfish things than if you're not gonna do something.

[Doctor Jeep]

You make a pretty valid point, and I bet you got that touch because someone overreacted and thought you were trying to make a personal attack.

Or, perhaps someone simply didn't like the fact that his/her post made the assumption that people who were being critical hadn't done anything to help out. That's not an overreaction.

For the record, I wasn't the one who handed out the red karma - but I can certainly understand why someone did.

[9-2-2]

Or, perhaps someone simply didn't like the fact that his/her post made the assumption that people who were being critical hadn't done anything to help out. That's not an overreaction.

For the record, I wasn't the one who handed out the red karma - but I can certainly understand why someone did.

Hmm... you also make a pretty good point. I think the problem here is making assumptions in general... we tend to think that if someone's sitting there and making criticisms about a disaster and about the dying, we automatically assume that he or she feels so negatively towards the people that the criticizer hasn't wasted a dime to what he or she considers to be other people's foolishness. It may not be the case, but it wouldn't make sense to me why someone would harp on people who are getting shot in the back but still donate.

[Raintreewolf]

Difference being, these people DID know, and the city had a plan to evacuate those unable to evacuate themselves. The local and state government had ample warning to issue mandatory evacuations, but they hemmed and hawed, and it cost lives.

I fully agree with you....

[indebted]

Okay....

So now I AM in exactly the situation you all seem so easily able to say I can't tell how I would react.

Guess what

My family and pets all EVACUATED

WE ARE NOT "STUCK ON STUPID!"

[Storm Moon]

We [a group at the library] were having a nice little discussion on this issue in a forum this evening, and this one guy said, "If someone were to break into my house and steal my stuff in this situation, I'd let them. If it's going to help them get through an ordeal of this magnitude, then I've done my part and helped them."

[pawnman]

We [a group at the library] were having a nice little discussion on this issue in a forum this evening, and this one guy said, "If someone were to break into my house and steal my stuff in this situation, I'd let them. If it's going to help them get through an ordeal of this magnitude, then I've done my part and helped them."

I wouldn't, because I might need that stuff to survive. I carefully planned my own hurricane stockpile, and I should be content to let some thug take it because his own house has been washed away?

Where does that logic stop? If my house burns down, does that give me the right to steal stuff? What if it's my whole apartment building...then can my neighbors and I form a mob? Is it justified? A watermain that floods my whole street? Simply put, how many people have to lose everything before stealilng is an acceptable alternative?

[Lunacie]

Okay....

So now I AM in exactly the situation you all seem so easily able to say I can't tell how I would react.

Guess what

My family and pets all EVACUATED

WE ARE NOT "STUCK ON STUPID!"

I think that's a lesson a lot of people have learned in the aftermath of Katrina.

BTW, I've read that over 50% of the population of New Orleans DID evacuate ahead of the storm. People who have rode out less intense hurricanes sometimes think there is nothing to worry about. People who have never been in a hurricane may not realize how bad it can get. Some people have health problems that make it very difficult to evacuate. Some people don't have anyone to stay with or anywhere to go, no way to get there, no money to pay for a place to stay.

I think it's very honest to say "I don't know what I'd do" if you've never been faced with a certain situation before.

[Cyzarine]

If it came down to me taking care of my family...of course I would loot. I would not let my family suffer only to be lawful of mans law. Family comes first in any situation (to me at least).

[indebted]

I still think this kind of logic is not logical, but rather just a rationalization of one's own agenda. I would shoot the idiot who broke into my home, if they did so and I were there. Just because they failed to get prepared does not mean they can come and take my hard earned, well-thought out and protected to the best of my ability possessions.

don't turn my evacuation around as a lesson from KAtrina. I said I would have evacuated then, too. No lesson to be learned for me...

I AM NOT STUCK ON STUPID!

[Lunacie]

Sorry, I meant that in a general way. I can't remember who has said what about evacuating and looting so I don't point any fingers.

[pawnman]

I still think this kind of logic is not logical, but rather just a rationalization of one's own agenda. I would shoot the idiot who broke into my home, if they did so and I were there. Just because they failed to get prepared does not mean they can come and take my hard earned, well-thought out and protected to the best of my ability possessions.

don't turn my evacuation around as a lesson from KAtrina. I said I would have evacuated then, too. No lesson to be learned for me...

I AM NOT STUCK ON STUPID!

Ditto. Why is it justified in a hurricane? Would you let someone who's house burned down loot your stuff? They've lost everything too, so they're entitled to start over with other people's belongings, right? It's just a rationalization for completely unacceptable and vile behavior.

[indebted]

Sorry, I meant that in a general way. I can't remember who has said what about evacuating and looting so I don't point any fingers.

Not a prob hun...... I guess I am a little edgy right now.

I will say, though, that a neighbor returned home today and checked out our house for us. It appears to have suffered no major impact. Fence is still standing. Hot tub still in place. Storage buildings still in their proper place. Our big trees did not fall on our house (which we were afraid would happen if we got the 80 mph wind that was thought to be hitting us even as the dumb storm came on shore). We may have some water damage from flooding, but that is what flood insurance is for. We will find out when we return next week.

All I can say about this whole looting thing is that stealing is stealing. Wrong is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Nothing we say or argue about will ever make that different.

IF (and this is a BIG IF) taking food is not considered stealing under the law during times of emergency, then I would only slightly reconsider my stand on that part of it. However, don't put money on it. Here is Texas it is still wrong and you can still get shot for it....righteously (that means legally) so.... So if you wanna steal or loot...don't come to Texas. We will protect our property...period...and the law says we can use whatever force we want to do so.

Don't like those rules.... Don't live in Texas. We like those rules. That's why we live here.

:thumbsup:

[~*Ginger*~]

I can only answer for the small community that I live in...

A charity organization, here at home, recieved so many clothes and household donations, that they didn't have man power, or room to put the stuff, so, they put it outside the building. (well it was already outside the building) On a far wall from the donation boxes, they then told folks, if you need it take it.
Only condition, was just take the bags, do not open and strew it around.

Rather than send it to the dump, before it got wet...

Many families have been helped by this kind offer.

[Lunacie]

Ginger, that's an awesome way of dealing with the overflow of donations. :woot: to the charity for doing that.

[walks_with_death]

[QUOTE=Exloration_La]I saw it all on the news. Maybe you should open your eyes.

Let me say something what you see i lived. I work for a company that pulled people out of the city. as you sat there the police,people in my place, ems, national guard, cost guard,ect. helped with every thing. the people that had food, water,things to stat alive were not bothered. WHAT DID YOU DO?????????????????