Letter from MM

[StellaLuna]

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com (www.MichaelMoore.com)




(My sentiments exactly. BB~Kari)

[Darkdale]

Michael Moore, the Great American Embarrassment. He couldn't handle not putting in his own two putrid cents could he?

[Gareth]

Michael Moore, the Great American Embarrassment. He couldn't handle not putting in his own two putrid cents could he?

Of course not.
You know, he'd say the same thing if Kerry was in office. :geez:

[Darkdale]

Of course not.
You know, he'd say the same thing if Kerry was in office. :geez:

riiight. :) Anyway, I'm signing off now. The people here are just disappointing me. One of my friends joked as the hurricane was coming that liberals wouldn't do anything but try to turn this against President Bush. I commented that I didn't think that would happen, that liberals were people too. That human tragedy is human tragedy and people will stay focused. I guess I was wrong. Just so sad I have to share this world with people so cold and heartless. They need a lesson in compassion. Sure, they can talk about it, but when it comes to actually doing something, they are no where to be found.

[Valnorran]

A certain pattern has begun to emerge here, one that I find truly repugnant, yet (tragically) not surprising. We've heard all manner of leftists weigh in on this catastrophe. We've heard them blame the governor of Mississippi. We've heard them blame Bush. When Bush gives a speech saying how we're going to get through this they complain he wasn't compassionate enough. Apparently saying things like "I feel your pain" with a quiverring lip and a catch in the voice are more important than actually doing something to solve the problem. When aid comes, they complain it isn't enough and it took too long (just like they did with the billions we sent the tsunami victims and Africa). Well, what have they offered?

Hate.
Contempt.
Criticism.

*shakes head* And they are honestly baffled as to how they lost the elections. They just can't figure out why the voters see them as the negative party. They offer nothing but what any fool can offer. What has Fat Basta- eh, Michael Moore done to help? What has the man who can afford a $3800-a-day diet done to help? Hell, just the crumbs off the front of his shirt would feed half the city, and he'd make a dandy shield for rescuers being shot at. But I expect if he moves past idle complaining he'll make a documentary about it, putting all blame on Bush and greedy corporations, and make a few million manufacturing lies about other people's misfortune.

And what really galls me is that these are the same people who constantly bray about what compassionate, tolerant, open-minded, caring people they are. They care, and that's all that's supposed to matter. They sit on their tax-fattened asses complaining about every solution that comes along while offering none of their own, but by golly they care, and don't you dare judge them. They're nothing but spoiled children, and while they're entitled to their opinions (just like they think they're entitled to everything else) I really wish they'd just STFU and do something constructive for a change.

[Athena-Nadine]

You know, Val, I'm not a Republican, I'm generally a Social Liberal, I don't like President Bush at all, but I can't help but agree with you.

[StellaLuna]

I'm afraid I've joined the wrong board...I didn't realize this was the community of right-winged, conservative hard heads.

Can you deny that our National Guard is lacking because they are where? In the Middle East.

If we had a large-scale terrorist attack, we are f*cked. This proves how inadequate our Department of Homeland Security is.

You're inability to see this makes me sick, and there's a whole country of Bush-loving wackos on your side.
Scary.

[Valnorran]

I'm afraid I've joined the wrong board...I didn't realize this was the community of right-winged, conservative hard heads.

Can you deny that our National Guard is lacking because they are where? In the Middle East.

If we had a large-scale terrorist attack, we are f*cked. This proves how inadequate our Department of Homeland Security is.

You're inability to see this makes me sick, and there's a whole country of Bush-loving wackos on your side.
Scary.
Yet another example of the tolerant and open-minded left. The National Guard has been deployed to New Orleans. Sorry to say that the effects of a category 5 hurricane are not just mopped up overnight. The fact that you're more interested in spewing your hatred and venom than in helping people speaks volumes.

[PaganLibrarian]

Face it, those who are now spouting hate for GWB are doing it not because of what GWB has or hasn't done, but simply because the hate GWB.

[Doctor Jeep]

What has Fat Basta- eh, Michael Moore done to help? What has the man who can afford a $3800-a-day diet done to help? Hell, just the crumbs off the front of his shirt would feed half the city, and he'd make a dandy shield for rescuers being shot at.

And so, your solution is to - toss out insults about Michael Moore's weight. Way to go!

What I find intriguing are all of the presumptions being made about who's done what to help out. It seems that one can't be critical of the Bush administration without being accused of not having done anything besides complain. And I'm not even referring to Moore here (not a fan, actually). I mean in general, based on what I've seeen here on the boards today.

It is possible to have contibuted money, blood, etc. and be critical at the same time.

[StellaLuna]

The fact that you're more interested in spewing your hatred and venom than in helping people speaks volumes.

I work for the Red Cross.

Don't you dare excuse me of such a thing.
If anyone is spewing venom and hatred on MW it's you and your inflammatory remarks.

May Goddess bless you.

[Valnorran]

I work for the Red Cross.

Don't you dare excuse me of such a thing.
If anyone is spewing venom and hatred on MW it's you and your inflammatory remarks.

May Goddess bless you.
Inflammatory? I'm not the one starting all these threads blaming everything on Bush. You work for the Red Cross? So you're in New Orleans helping out? How is it you have so much spare time you can post here? The fact is you posted something, someone else disagreed with it, and now you can't cope with that.

[Valnorran]

And so, your solution is to - toss out insults about Michael Moore's weight. Way to go!
Well, that and my mother and I are taking in a refugee family. Oh, and apparently you missed my other insults to him and his ilk.
What I find intriguing are all of the presumptions being made about who's done what to help out. It seems that one can't be critical of the Bush administration without being accused of not having done anything besides complain. And I'm not even referring to Moore here (not a fan, actually). I mean in general, based on what I've seeen here on the boards today.
It's based solely on observation. I've seen nothing but complaints. I haven't seen any of these jokers actually contribute something beyond their opinion.
It is possible to have contibuted money, blood, etc. and be critical at the same time.
Sure it is. Have they?

[StellaLuna]

I can cope with it and you fine.

And no, I'm not in New Orleans. I couldn't if I wanted to. I'm not in disaster, and even if I was the government is not letting relief workers in the city. I work for a local Chapter in NY and there are many facets to the organization. Why don't you educate yourself on it before you come back with any more smart ass remarks.



Inflammatory? I'm not the one starting all these threads blaming everything on Bush. You work for the Red Cross? So you're in New Orleans helping out? How is it you have so much spare time you can post here? The fact is you posted something, someone else disagreed with it, and now you can't cope with that.

[Valnorran]

I can cope with it and you fine.
Saying things like
I didn't realize this was the community of right-winged, conservative hard heads.

You're inability to see this makes me sick, and there's a whole country of Bush-loving wackos on your side.
Scary.
ain't exactly coping. It's demonstrating an inability to handle opposing opinions.
Why don't you educate yourself on it before you come back with any more smart ass remarks.
Well, that's why I asked - to educate myself. Why can't you engage in a rational discussion without calling those with differing opinions "hard heads" and "wackos?"

[Doctor Jeep]

Sure it is. Have they?

I really don't know. Is that a requirement in order to have an opinion or criticism?

[PaganLibrarian]

No, but it sure helps your credability...

[Valnorran]

I really don't know. Is that a requirement in order to have an opinion or criticism?
Any fool can have an opinion. Right now opinions are pretty worthless. Actually doing something, even if it's just donating the change in your pocket, is of incalculable value. WHich would you value more - the person who actually does something to help or the one who just sits there and complains?

[Darkdale]

All the democrats have the talking points now and they are all bashing Bush. These are just sick, disgusting people and I'm tired of sharing a country with them. These people wouldn't know compassion or sympathy if it smacking them in the face. I hope there is a terrible backlash against democrats for the way they are treating the people of this country, belittleing their actions and spitting in the face of the president.

[Doctor Jeep]

Any fool can have an opinion. Right now opinions are pretty worthless. Actually doing something, even if it's just donating the change in your pocket, is of incalculable value. WHich would you value more - the person who actually does something to help or the one who just sits there and complains?

Which brings us back to my original point - how do you know what anyone has or has not done? In this thread we have you and Asa making generalizations about leftists and liberals complaining but not donating, etc. How do either of you know what Moore and/or any liberal has contributed/donated?

I have to laugh at the accusation that liberals are just using the hurricane as a way to bash Bush, while you two are simultaneously using it to bash people on the left/liberals.

[Nemesis Descending]

Michael Moore, the Great American Embarrassment. He couldn't handle not putting in his own two putrid cents could he?

Yeah, how dare he have an opinion and express it!. Gawd, what does he think this is, America or something!?

[Darkdale]

Yeah, how dare he have an opinion and express it!. Gawd, what does he think this is, America or something!?

It's not that he has an opinion, it's that he is a heartless, cruel, intolerant person, who loves nothing more than to stir up hatred amongst people.... well, at least he is successful.

[Nemesis Descending]

It's not that he has an opinion, it's that he is a heartless, cruel, intolerant person, who loves nothing more than to stir up hatred amongst people.... well, at least he is successful.

That's your opinion, and I defend your right to express it. So, are you saying that a "heartless, cruel and intolerant person" should not have the same rights of freedom of speech that a compassionate, kind, and tolerant person has in America? Who else should we exclude? Okay, people like me, but who else other than that!? ;)

[sari0009]

riiight. :) The people here are just disappointing me. One of my friends joked as the hurricane was coming that liberals wouldn't do anything but try to turn this against President Bush.

Personally, all of the people I know have donated time, energy and money to help, if they were able, as well as question in what areas opportunities lie and what could be improved. This is true regardless of whether they are "conservative" or "liberal" in various matters (few fit fully in any one box on all matters).

[StellaLuna]

Saying things like

ain't exactly coping. It's demonstrating an inability to handle opposing opinions.

Well, that's why I asked - to educate myself. Why can't you engage in a rational discussion without calling those with differing opinions "hard heads" and "wackos?"


You're absolutely right. I got a little out of hand.

Can you really say the same? I've seen you sling the same verbage towards liberals. It seems that if someone here has a slight leftist opinion, you go for the jugular. And my goddess, can anyone EVER admit that this administration may have made some mistakes?!

Look, I'm just venting my frustration because I see people hurting and dying and I feel more could have and could be done. I'm doing all I can. I work for a humitarian organization. I've donated money to this relief effort and have participated in a circle of healing for the victims. I'm just asking questions and wondering why this government, Democrat or Republican, 'for the people- by the people' couldn't have been there sooner.

I'm not a Democrat either. A proud Independent.

~May there be Peace in New Orleans tonight~

[WokeUpDead]

So I guess it was unreasonable for Moore to say the people of New Orleans deserved help faster?
People seem to forget he wasn't exactly a fan of Clinton either. Pretty much any president can be the subject of his movies, the current one just happens to be Republican.

[azzeenasman]

I like Bush,and think he is a good man.I voted for him.I couldnt stomach the whining of the other guy.

Bush didnt cause the hurricane,its not his fault.

Nobody is perfect,so if you feel Bush made a mistake,pray for him,and ask for divine wisdom for him,to lead us in troubled times.

I dont think its a good idea to get caught up in hating Bush,he doesnt deserve it.I know a lot of republicans hated Bill Clinton,but hate is hate,and its not good for your soul.

Thats what I think.

[Darkdale]

That's your opinion, and I defend your right to express it. So, are you saying that a "heartless, cruel and intolerant person" should not have the same rights of freedom of speech that a compassionate, kind, and tolerant person has in America? Who else should we exclude? Okay, people like me, but who else other than that!? ;)


No, I'm saying that people like Michael Moore are a national shame, an embarrassment to America and to humanity. His popularity amongst liberals is therefore not a shock. I don't think anyone should be excluded, just hated and worked against at every possible turn, to make sure the worst of America is kept in the minority. I'm more frightened of Michael Moore, the liberal base and the Democratic Black Caucus at this point than I am any other group of enemies. They are the real threat to the country and will be the end of America. I'm not sure how long reason, humanity and compassion can hold out against them.

:) America is free to self-destruct. America is free to do whatever the people want to do, but I don't have tolerate anyone. I am free to be intolerant of others, especially those who are turning this country into something embarrassing and disgusting.

[pawnman]

I'm afraid I've joined the wrong board...I didn't realize this was the community of right-winged, conservative hard heads.

Can you deny that our National Guard is lacking because they are where? In the Middle East.

If we had a large-scale terrorist attack, we are f*cked. This proves how inadequate our Department of Homeland Security is.

You're inability to see this makes me sick, and there's a whole country of Bush-loving wackos on your side.
Scary.

Of course, Governor Blanco could have expidited the LA National Guard response by not waiting four days to call them up. There were some 6000 in the state, but she didn't actually deploy them until Friday. I'm sure that's somehow Bush's fault as well.

[pawnman]

Yeah, how dare he have an opinion and express it!. Gawd, what does he think this is, America or something!?

Don't see him offering much in the way of help. He's allowed to express his opinion, just like everyone else. My opinion is that his opinion is a crappy one.

[Darkdale]

Personally, all of the people I know have donated time, energy and money to help, if they were able, as well as question in what areas opportunities lie and what could be improved. This is true regardless of whether they are "conservative" or "liberal" in various matters (few fit fully in any one box on all matters).

yeah, that's been my experience too, but I'm just so damn angry at this point, my posts become a bit unreasonable. I've just never been more embarrassed by democrats and liberals in my life, race baiting and poor baiting at a time like this. Using this tragedy to bash Bush. It's just gross, disgusting behavior and I hate these people for dividing the country at a time like this. I honestly hate them. BUT I know that this isn't all liberals or all democrats. But they are the only ones I'm actually seeing on the television and most of the liberals here are falling in line, so you can't really blame me for making sweeping generalizations... if Mysticwicks and the Media were an accurate sample, I'd pretty much be dead on.

[Nemesis Descending]

I've just never been more embarrassed by democrats and liberals in my life, race baiting and poor baiting at a time like this. Using this tragedy to bash Bush. It's just gross, disgusting behavior and I hate these people for dividing the country at a time like this. .

Ever stop to think that what these people are saying is what they truly feel and believe? If you held such beliefs, and were angry at what you saw, wouldn't you speak out? You're not being silent in respect of this tragedy. You're lashing out here at what you see as injustice, and so are the people you feel are the enemy.

If you feel it's divisive, then perhaps you shouldn't feed it by posting, but instead spend your online time sending emails of support to Federal and State officials. Just a thought...

[PaganLibrarian]

Ever stop to think that what these people are saying is what they truly feel and believe?

Yes, but now is not the time to be saying it!

If you feel it's divisive, then perhaps you shouldn't feed it by posting, but instead spend your online time sending emails of support to Federal and State officials. Just a thought...

But we're just saying what we truly feel and believe...

[Nemesis Descending]

Yes, but now is not the time to be saying it!



But we're just saying what we truly feel and believe...

If now is not the time, then it's also not the time for you guys either.

But, no, you're complaining that the liberals shouldn't be speaking out during this time of tragedy. So, put your money where your mouth is, and practice what you preach. If now is not the time, then it's also not the time for you.

[Darkdale]

It's a natural reaction to the disgusting behavior of democrats. But you are right, there are better things to do with my time and not waste it on petty liberal racists.

[PaganLibrarian]

If now is not the time, then it's also not the time for you guys either.

But we're just reacting to what you said. You don't want the reaction, don't make the statements.

[Protagonist]

It's a natural reaction to the disgusting behavior of democrats. But you are right, there are better things to do with my time and not waste it on petty liberal racists.
I'm not even going to try and figure out what the hell brings "racism" into this. I'm just going to assume you folks're just doing your usual thing, using your "controversial word" thesaurus, or whatever. It's the usual disgusting, divisive behavior of conservatives. Oh, what am I saying? Most conservatives aren't even like this - it's just the loud ones. If Allan Bloom were still alive, he wouldn't waste his time. No, it's not appropriate for me to say that this is the disgusting behavior of conservatives. Rather, I should say, it's the disgusting behavior of a conservative.

[PaganLibrarian]

Like liberals don't call people racists every chance they get....

[Protagonist]

Like liberals don't call people racists every chance they get....
Well, I can't speak for all liberals, but, were I to call someone racist, I would try to have a reason for doing so, and mention that reason, rather than just throwing the word around nonsensically. Besides, even if one assumes most so-called liberals use the word too indiscriminately, does that mean so-called conservatives should do the same thing?

[Garnet]

It's a natural reaction to the disgusting behavior of democrats. But you are right, there are better things to do with my time and not waste it on petty liberal racists.

How dare you acuse democrats/liberals of being petty & racist'!
Yesterday, I went online & donated money to the Red Cross. It was the first time I could get through because their online system has been bogged down with donations (many of them from liberal 'racists' like me). Sorry I couldn't donate as much as a good Republican like you, but that's all I could afford. On my next payday, Red Cross will get more from me.
When I got to work last night, I found that the company I work for has promised to match any donations to the Red Cross handed in at work. Because I can't afford any more until next payday, I'm trying to get my usually cheap-@$$ employer to match what I've already given.
On my next day off, I have an appointment to give blood. I work a 12 hour shift, the nearest donation center is almost an hour away because I travel by bus. Sorry I couldn't squeeze it into my schedule to please your good Republican ideals.
If you'd listen to/read the news instead of finding new ways to insult people who have the unmittigated gall not to beleive exactly the way you do, you'd know that there are some Republicans who are mighty angry at the way this disaster has been handled.


If you were standing up to your waist in dirty water, & hadn't had any food or clean water, & had been without a safe, dry place to sleep for several days, would you be standing in the street, singong praises of the way the currant administration is handling this disaster? Could we hear your praises over the hunger-rumbling in your stomach?

Put your money where your mouth is & match my donation. Until you do, IMHO, you're just another typical 'do as I say, not as I do' Rpublican.

[mol]

ADMIN MODE

Stop with the hate-speech or the thread will be closed...as will many others.

[Garnet]

It's a natural reaction to the disgusting behavior of democrats. But you are right, there are better things to do with my time and not waste it on petty liberal racists.

How dare you acuse democrats/liberals of being petty & racist' in response to this catastrophe!

Yesterday, I went online & donated $200. to the Red Cross. It was the first time I could get through because their online system has been bogged down with donations (many of them from liberal 'racists' like me). Sorry I couldn't donate as much as a good Republican like you, but that's all I could afford. On my next payday, Red Cross will get more from me.
When I got to work last night, I found that the company I work for has promised to match any donations to the Red Cross handed in at work. Because I can't afford any more until next payday, I'm trying to get my usually cheap-@$$ employer to match what I've already given.
On my next day off, I have an appointment to give blood. I work a 12 hour shift, the nearest donation center is almost an hour away because I travel by bus. Sorry I couldn't squeeze it into my schedule to please your good Republican ideals.

I promise you that I did not insist that either of my donations go only to people who think as I do. I don't give a damn where it goes, as long as it goes to those who need it most.

If you'd listen to/read the news instead of finding new ways to insult people who have the unmittigated gall not to believe exactly the way you do, you'd know that there are some Republicans who are mighty angry at the way this disaster has been handled.


If you were standing up to your waist in dirty water, & hadn't had any food or clean water, & had been without a safe, dry place to sleep for several days, would you be standing in the street, singing praises of the way the currant administration is handling this disaster? Could we hear your praises over the hunger-rumbling in your stomach?

Put your money where your mouth is & match my donation (financial & blood). Until you do, IMHO, you're just another typical 'do as I say, not as I do' Republican.

My tirade is over (for now); it's safe to come out now. I apologize if I've offended anyone, but the Republican belief that every one should be required to speak, act, & think exactly as they do really chaps my tuchis.

[PaganLibrarian]

Does anyone besides me see irony in someone complaining about generalizations by making generalizations?

[Garnet]

Does anyone besides me see irony in someone complaining about generalizations by making generalizations?

I tend to respond in the same way I'm addressed. If I hear a well-thought-out argument, I will respond the same way. But sometimes, the best way to deal with a person is to respond with their own type of statement.

I am sorry for shooting from the hip. If I bake cookies, will I be forgiven?

Please?

[Protagonist]

I'm just amazed that you folks are still parsing this as a problem pertaining to either "liberals" or "conservatives." Yes, a certain level of ineptitude contributed to the disaster, and needs to be rectified. But, for God's sake, it doesn't fall along party lines. If Kerry were in office, I would be surprised if things were much better.

[Protagonist]

I tend to respond in the same way I'm addressed. If I hear a well-thought-out argument, I will respond the same way. But sometimes, the best way to deal with a person is to respond with their own type of statement.
Actually, no. That's never the best way to respond. It just continues the ping-pong game between extremists. Identify what's wrong about their statements and show them explicitly. But, heaven forfend, don't sink to their level, particularly in this instance.

[mol]

Actually, no. That's never the best way to respond. It just continues the ping-pong game between extremists. Identify what's wrong about their statements and show them explicitly. But, heaven forfend, don't sink to their level, particularly in this instance.
Exactly..thats the kind of thing that gets threads closed.

[Nemesis Descending]

But we're just reacting to what you said. You don't want the reaction, don't make the statements.

Well, actually, I never said the left or the right should not be posting. I'm only saying that one size fits all. I have no problem with the right speaking its mind. I only have a problem with the right telling the left to shut up while the right continues to speak out (reactionary or otherwise). Like I said, practice what you preach.

[Darkdale]

Well, actually, I never said the left or the right should not be posting. I'm only saying that one size fits all. I have no problem with the right speaking its mind. I only have a problem with the right telling the left to shut up while the right continues to speak out (reactionary or otherwise). Like I said, practice what you preach.

But no one is saying that anyone shouldn't be allowed to speak, people are just saying that what other people are saying is horrible. It doesn't matter though. People will continue regurgitating their talking points until the end of time. There is no hope for compromise or productive activity in the realm of politics or even in the realm of social harmony. I am reminded that the most productive thing you can do is to go after the people that haven't made up their minds (tiny number), gather your evidence, make your arguments and hope you've convinced them. Liberals and conservatives don't live in the same reality, so there is no sense trying to communicate with one another.

[Doctor Jeep]

But we're just reacting to what you said. You don't want the reaction, don't make the statements.

Who's forcing you to respond to the statements?

[Nemesis Descending]

But no one is saying that anyone shouldn't be allowed to speak, people are just saying that what other people are saying is horrible.

Well, I guess I took PaganLibrarian's words "now is not the time to be saying it!" to mean what they say, my mistake. And, I agree with you (oh crap ;) ) that we've heard a lot of really unpleasant things said in anger.

There's a reason why there is a left and right, and it's pretty much oil and water. Like I've said before, it boils down to a matter of faith or lack of faith in those running the show. Currently Bush's overall approval rating in the U.S. is at an all time low (I recently heard it's about 38%). So, little wonder the dogs are barking.

[pawnman]

We all should have expected Micheal Moore's criticism. Any time anything bad happens anywhere in the world, he finds a way to blame Bush for it. He started up on Bush about 11am on 9-11-01, so the only thing that suprises me about his current rant is how long it took to get published.

[StellaLuna]

So victories and accomplishments are quickly attributed to Bush and this Administration,
but he's exempt from criticism?!

convenient

[Darkdale]

So victories and accomplishments are quickly attributed to Bush and this Administration,
but he's exempt from criticism?!

convenient

No. They are not. Bush deserves neither to be praised or blamed for most of the things that happen in this country. Conservatives, on this board, are forced to constantly defend Bush from the outrageous criticisms of the people here who hate him with such blind emotion. We are not praising Bush, as much as we are defending him from absurd criticism.

[Nemesis Descending]

We all should have expected Micheal Moore's criticism. Any time anything bad happens anywhere in the world, he finds a way to blame Bush for it. He started up on Bush about 11am on 9-11-01, so the only thing that suprises me about his current rant is how long it took to get published.

Yeah, Moore does have a way of quickly giving credit where credit is due.

Conservatives, on this board, are forced to constantly defend Bush from the outrageous criticisms of the people here who hate him with such blind emotion. We are not praising Bush, as much as we are defending him from absurd criticism.

No offense, but I've seen little criticism of Bush on MW that doesn't seem to fit the man.

[MoonIsis]

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

Can someone please tell me what the hell this has to do with the entire city being underwater? I dont' care if they were white, black, yellow or green, there is no way to get in there without first getting a plan. You have up to in some places 10 feet or more of water in the streets. What should we just DRIVE on in there? My friend in the Army said that getting all of the troops rounded up and down there can take a few days as expected. These people expect us to be there in a day when we are dealing with a "not of the norm" disaster. When the plan was finally in place for aid, we came..and we came in the truckloads...and we're still coming. In terms of leaving people on their roofs, they are getting as many as they can. Don't forget that not every helicopter is rescuing people. Some are on strict missions from the coast guard to do other disaster relief or perhaps are assigned to one specific area to rescue people. If they fly someone to safety and spot others not in their zone, they report it to those assigned to that zone and they are added to the list. I saw this on the news the other night. Everyone wants to be helped right away, pronto, today, now. With so many people stranded, it's impossible to get every single person off a roof in one day. Be realistic here. We are doing everything I can. They said the coast guard already rescued THOUSANDs off their roofs already. They are working as fast as they can around the clock.

And Michael Moore seriously needs to get a life. I'm sure he's heading down there right now w/ his freaking video camera to make another movie off another tradegy. He makes me sick. Maybe he should open his mouth and his wallet and give some money to this cause rather then b*tch as usual that nothing is being done. We are doing everything we can. Last I checked Qatar just gave us 100 million dollars. Walmart gave 15 million. Heck Sri Lanka gave 25 grand and they are still hurt from the tsunami. I don't wanna hear Michael Moore's whining any more. It does no good. This disaster has showed the world that in a wake of a tradegy we all are pulling together. People are helping us in leaps and bounds.

[MoonIsis]

A certain pattern has begun to emerge here, one that I find truly repugnant, yet (tragically) not surprising. We've heard all manner of leftists weigh in on this catastrophe. We've heard them blame the governor of Mississippi. We've heard them blame Bush. When Bush gives a speech saying how we're going to get through this they complain he wasn't compassionate enough. Apparently saying things like "I feel your pain" with a quiverring lip and a catch in the voice are more important than actually doing something to solve the problem. When aid comes, they complain it isn't enough and it took too long (just like they did with the billions we sent the tsunami victims and Africa). Well, what have they offered?

Hate.
Contempt.
Criticism.

*shakes head* And they are honestly baffled as to how they lost the elections. They just can't figure out why the voters see them as the negative party. They offer nothing but what any fool can offer. What has Fat Basta- eh, Michael Moore done to help? What has the man who can afford a $3800-a-day diet done to help? Hell, just the crumbs off the front of his shirt would feed half the city, and he'd make a dandy shield for rescuers being shot at. But I expect if he moves past idle complaining he'll make a documentary about it, putting all blame on Bush and greedy corporations, and make a few million manufacturing lies about other people's misfortune.

And what really galls me is that these are the same people who constantly bray about what compassionate, tolerant, open-minded, caring people they are. They care, and that's all that's supposed to matter. They sit on their tax-fattened asses complaining about every solution that comes along while offering none of their own, but by golly they care, and don't you dare judge them. They're nothing but spoiled children, and while they're entitled to their opinions (just like they think they're entitled to everything else) I really wish they'd just STFU and do something constructive for a change.

:woot: YOU ROCK!!! Bravo! Well said!

[WokeUpDead]

"Republicans are the party of bad ideas and Democrats are the party of no ideas"
-Lewis Black

[BlueMoon13]

Conservatives, on this board, are forced to constantly defend Bush from the outrageous criticisms of the people here who hate him with such blind emotion. We are not praising Bush, as much as we are defending him from absurd criticism.
I concur-hell, I did'nt even vote for the guy. It seems to me the whole purpose of the creation of this thread was to stir things up. Gods forbid we should focus our energies-TOGETHER-on something constructive.Noooo....Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,Michael Moore.....just WHY to they have to make a bad situation even worse?
BTW- I did'nt see anyone give a :thumbsup: to Val and his family for taking in evacuees, unless someone PM'd him..so Val and family... :thumbsup:

[Valnorran]

Which brings us back to my original point - how do you know what anyone has or has not done?
A question I have already answered.
In this thread we have you and Asa making generalizations about leftists and liberals complaining but not donating, etc. How do either of you know what Moore and/or any liberal has contributed/donated?
If they had, they'd be trumpetting it from the tallest towers. All I've seen them contribute is opinions. I have no doubt whatsoever that if they did anything of any substance whatsoever they wouldn't hesitate to let us know.
I have to laugh at the accusation that liberals are just using the hurricane as a way to bash Bush, while you two are simultaneously using it to bash people on the left/liberals.
Well, we're bashing people who are capable of nothing but hate. They offer no help whatsoever. We're bashing people for making such assanine statements as the hurricane being Bush's fault.

[Valnorran]

You're absolutely right. I got a little out of hand.

Can you really say the same? I've seen you sling the same verbage towards liberals. It seems that if someone here has a slight leftist opinion, you go for the jugular.
There are a lot of things I let slide. If I didn't, posting here would be a full time job for me. The liberals far outnumber the conservatives here. I lose all patience when people are so obssessive in their hatred for Bush they're more interested in blaming him for something that can't possibly be his fault than doing anything of actual substance. Saying things like the hurricane is Bush's fault and the relief effort is racist are patently absurd and deliberately irrational. That is something I will not let slide.
And my goddess, can anyone EVER admit that this administration may have made some mistakes?!
Sure we can. Most conservatives, myself included, are absolutely appalled at his approach to the illegal immigrant issue. Bush supported the assault weapons ban while I'm against it. I totally disagree with his opinion of Pagans. I think he was way too premature to declare the major combat in Iraq being over.
Look, I'm just venting my frustration because I see people hurting and dying
Me, too. It dusgusts me to no end to have a city full of dying and desperate people and guys like Michael Moore can only contribute an editorial.
I'm doing all I can. I work for a humitarian organization. I've donated money to this relief effort and have participated in a circle of healing for the victims.
Excellent, and gods bless you for you contributions.
I'm just asking questions and wondering why this government, Democrat or Republican, 'for the people- by the people' couldn't have been there sooner.
~May there be Peace in New Orleans tonight~
But relief efforts in this country really fall more to the local and state governments than the federal. That was true of hurricanes in Florida. That was true of 9/11. One simple reason for this is that state and local governments are there when the disaster happens. They're in a better position to help. I'm not really sure what my state's government did or did not do, but Louisiana has a long, sad history of politics either corrupt, incompetent, or both. Seems like I read somewhere Bush offered Gov. Blanco help, and she turned it down.* I'll see if I can find that article. I know for a fact that numerous school busses sit inundated in New Orleans - school busses that could have been used to evacuate. And apparently the New Orleans paper put out an article back in July that said anyone who doesn't evacuate is on their own, so there was some warning. Right now, if blame must be laid, I'm inclined to place most of it on the New Orleans government. At this point, however, I think relief and rescue efforts are far, far more important than finger pointing. We'll have all the time in the world for finger pointing. The people still trapped in the flood don't have a whole lot of time.

* I just looked and saw that the source for this allegation is none other than the mayor of New Orleans. Due to his irrational behavior, I will definately take this story with a few blocks of salt unless it can be confirmed by a source that is a bit more, shall we say, well behaved.

[Darakash]

The thing about folks of the outspoken nature, such as Mr. Moore, about such things as Katrina and her aftermath, is not so much that they speak their mind/opinion, but, that they seem to say things that ONLY manage to inflame rather than things that might help, and that those comments are usually horribly predictable....

literally 24 hours before I first saw Jesse Jackson speak publically, I had been speaking to my husband and brother about the fact that with the growing anger and grumblings among some people I was hearing about racially inequity, I was hoping against hope that black activists such as Jesse and Sharpton, would take this opportunity to speak healing words and to attempt to rally their community to help the victims of this disaster, rather than fanning the flames of anger and outrage by asserting Racism was an underlying reason for the "slow" rescue attempts etc....and to avoid turning what should be a time of National coming together into a political debate about black v. white and rich v. poor.

Instead of what I hoped for there were statements like these: Jesse Blasts Bush (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090201499.html)

Again, I have no issue with criticizing the adminstration (any party), but, as former President Clinton said yesterday (after announcing, by the way, that the "evil" Walmart and Walton family were pledging $23 MILLLION in aid, which alone is more than twice what we raised in total for sunami relief)....that there very well may be blame to be place, and things that went wrong and that these things should be investigated, but right now, the focus needs to be on helping the victims, saving lives and getting much needed funding and support to the area....

[seapearls]

Currently Bush's overall approval rating in the U.S. is at an all time low (I recently heard it's about 38%).


Not suprised. I hate Bush too but even I know the disaster wasn't his fault. You can't prevent natural selection, it's not meant to be prevented. You can look at the hurricane any way you wish but that's what it was to me. Natures way of cleaning up. And I'll stop here because I'd just say what you already know about the large number of homeless & street scammers in the French Quarter and all the non-historical homes in that area that needed a good bulldozing anyways.

Slow smow, their getting things done down there as fast as possible and that's all that matters.

MM does nothing but make a fool of himself. Oh and Jesse Jackson is another two faced demon who thrives on stirring shit up. They both need to get a life.

[BlueMoon13]

MM does nothing but make a fool of himself. Oh and Jesse Jackson is another two faced demon who thrives on stirring shit up. They both need to get a life.
:yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah:

**laughing,blows coffee all over monitor**

Oh,well said :cheers:

[Xander67]

Dear Michael,
Get off your A$$ and help! There are 600 military choppers in New Orleans alone! The Mississippi River looks like a Naval base....

Are you Blind? Yes there are still pepole trapped in thier homes ... The Rescue teams are going house to house...

Hey Michael, you really need to give your polotics a rest right now ...

There were plenty of troups left stateside, as a matter of fact, the Pentagon is pulling servicemen and women out of Iraq who need to come home and tend to thier affiars due to Katrina.... OR DID YOU NOT GET THAT EMAIL????
DORK~!

[Xander67]

And my goddess, can anyone EVER admit that this administration may have made some mistakes?!


Sure we can, and there is a congressional investigation now forming as well as a presidential inquiry to see where they went wrong and where they went right... But the time for that is not when we are still rescuing victims...

God knows I am as appauled as you... what happened here was a complete beurocracy nightmare...
the media had satelite trucks and food in the area for thier personell!!!! maybe the Red Cross should have hitched a ride with them...... but as I said..... LET The people do thier work.... Give Polotics a rest... Let the Poloticians worry about the Polotics....

[pawnman]

Some more points to consider:

New Orleans had a thorough and full evacuation plan (http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26) to be implemented in case of a category 3 hurricane.
The authority and responsibility for activating this plan rests with none other than the Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin. Let's not forget that Ray is complaining about the actions to help people after the storm, but if he had implemented this plan in time (within 72 hours of the hurriane impact), thousands of lives could have been saved. Part of the plan calls for the use of city buses, including school buses, to be used to evacuate those unable to get out themselves. Instead, this is what happened to those buses: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015 (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015)

Each of these buses could have taken 50-60 people to safety. Instead, they were left to the mercy of the storm in this parking lot. Who's fault was that? The mayor.

Blanco doesn't get off scott-free, however. Bush wanted her to declare an emergency (http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana) , but she dithered for 24 hours, costing time, money, and most of all, lives. In fact,
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

Instead of providing the efforts promised in the emergency plan, the local and state officials left these people to their own devices. Instead of busing people out, as the plan calls for, they told them to get to the Superdome under their own power, and to bring their own food.

I just wanted to add as well: check out FEMA's charter. It's not a first-response agency. The first response in any disaster belongs to the local and state governments, with federal help coming later. Unfortunately, both the state and local governments dropped the ball on this one, with no command and control in place and no one in charge of the operations.

[Xander67]

Oh I agree, I think we will find alot of bad decisions at the state and local level once all the dust clears... The Federal Government had everything ready to help before the storm, but the city and state levels were only prepared for a cat 3 storm..

but that is niether here nor there, it will all come out in the fact finding

[Teresa]

Sorry I am not joining in on the BLAME GAME! My precious energies are being sent to those that are trying their damnest to help these people.These are the same ones who are also seeing such horrors they never imagined!

[Danustouch]

While Michael Moore is certainly interested in agitating, I don't believe that his intent is to "spew hatred" in the pursuit of money, as much as it is to highlight how this administration has failed. This country was polarized during the election, and that polarization has not dissappeared now that we're almost a year into the term. Actually, let me backtrack there, ACTUALLY bushes approval ratings keep slipping, and many people who actually VOTED for Bush initially, are now regretting their decision. And the issues which are unsatisfying to the American Public about the Bush Administration, are not just unsatisfactory due to Michael Moore's comments, they are simply unsatisfactory, PERIOD.

Even Bill Clinton said in an interview last night, that it seems ALMOST 100% of the American Population currently feel that the Government has let the victims of Katrina down. At this point, it will take a huge investigation to figure out on what political level, that shortcoming occurred. It seems to be a mixture, from where I stand. Federal AND local governments failed the victims. That being the case, MM has some cause for raising these angry feelings. You may debate his motives for doing it, but I don't. MM has served as the mouthpiece for a huge section of the american populace who ARE dissatisfied with the way that this country is being governed. He is able to succinctly, comically, and passionately communicate the feelings that many of us DO have.

As far as the race card: Michael Moore is certainly NOT the only one to be expousing this opinion. Racism, and Xenophobia as we know, isn't always as glaring as parading around in a white cloak and hat. Sometimes, it merely comes in the form of neglect. In this case, if racism and xenophobia are present, that's certainly the form its taken. I'm not proposing that it was a deliberate act on the part of Bush to let them die, because he is conciously racist. HOWEVER, it's fair enough to say that there is still a racial devide in much of our country, specifically in some of the southern states. Deliberate? I don't think so. But I think we are still fighting many of the same issues racially, as we've been fighting for years. There is a HUGE difference in education, still. There is a HUGE difference in the wages, due to that. Etc. And, while people who are well educated, and in good jobs, might have vacation homes to evacuate to, or wealthy family with larger houses to take them in, or good connections to help them evacuate, the poor segment of American Society, which in the area of New Orleans is LARGELY black, don't have those same chances. Thus, more provision SHOULD be made in crisis planning, to address those who do NOT have all of the opportunities at their disposal, as some of the more financially secure. Michael Moore may be a little strident in his attack on Mr. Bush's reaction to the disaster, but the points which he is making, are points being considered by many people, leftists, and rightwingers, alike. Let's not forget, MANY people from our southern states, ARE known to be political conservatives. Thus, many of them probably DID vote for Bush. And here, many of those people ARE feeling as if their government has failed them. I don't necessarily believe that it was a racially motivated move on the part of our government. But I do believe, that it does highlight some of the glaring problems in our society when it comes to racial, and economic devisions.

As I said, it will take a long time, to investigate exactly where the blame lay. But at this point, it's generally accepted that someplace, somewhere along the line, Government failed these people. And right now, blaming the country's leader for it's failure, is a fairly realistic reaction, it is at the very least, an understandable one. He is the commander in chief. We look to our nations presidents as the one to protect us, and guide us, with the decisions that he makes. People sort of look at the President they elected, as their leader in troubled times. That is why George Bushs Presence on, and directly following 9/11 WAS so highly important.

Michael Moore is angry, but he is certainly representing the opinions of MANY here in the states, who are angry. And they are certainly entitled to their anger. Somewhere, something failed, and big time. And Michael Moore is throwing down the gauntlet, FOR those people, and demanding an explanation. Surely, while his way of stating that, and issuing the challenge, is volatile, and explosively worded, it's no different than anything many are saying at the moment, here in the US.

[Garnet]

If they had, they'd be trumpetting it from the tallest towers. All I've seen them contribute is opinions. I have no doubt whatsoever that if they did anything of any substance whatsoever they wouldn't hesitate to let us know.

This is so far from the truth it's laughable.

Just because someone isn't running around, insisting that you & everyone else listens to their relentless self-aggrandizement about how much they've given to Hurricane Relef or any charity doesn't mean they haven't contributed in some way.
Some people prefer to contribute in quiet ways that don't call attention to themselves.
For example, Jews give to charity for the sole purpose of helping others. We don't make a big deal of it; that's against our beliefs. There's kind of a karmic effect of making a big deal of charitable acts that negates the contribution...sort of ripping the gold stars off our 'good person' charts.
I am willing to bet cash that 99% of the Jewish community where I live has no idea at all who the biggest contributer within the community is. I'm Jewish & I read the local Jewish weekly, & I have no idea.
When I went off about sending money to Red Cross & giving blood, I meant to make a point that liberals are concerned enough to pony up & help out, not to make myself look good. I know that's how it looks, & I'll have to answer for it someday.
I heard on BBC World Service last night that Americans have contributed over $400 million so far. If all of us were intent on bragging that we've given & how much, we'd need newspapers & TV & radio stations of our own just to get the word out.


Well, we're bashing people who are capable of nothing but hate. They offer no help whatsoever. We're bashing people for making such assanine statements as the hurricane being Bush's fault.
$400 million.......that kind of money can't be raised just from conservatives. It takes a lot of people tto raise that much; conservative, liberal, libertarians, & people who don't care enough to vote ever. People that know there are Americans who desperately need our help, & are anxious to give whatever help we can afford.
Not every one who has contributed needs to be patted on the head like a puppy who's just successfully fetched his first stick. IMO, the people that are contributing just for that pat are pretty sad.

IMO, you've insulted everyone who contributed from the heart, quietly & without any expectation of pats on the head.

[Jenne]

Well, the connotations of the word "refugee" aside (which is what the gov't is calling the Katrina victims), I think the best efforts of MM and his lot would be to do a "Live Katrina Aid" thing and get his buddies to sit on the phones while people call in. THAT, to me, was the best thing the media ever did in the history of media. Donated time, money, energies and effort is worth way more than scathing, tongue-lashing obituaries of this administration.

That being said, we *all* know better than to categorize a whole party of people as racists. I think this whole thing has people standing on their heads in rage and frustration--I know it's already agitating my few quiet moments just because there's no other news to be had. It's a terrible, horrible thing, for everyone everywhere. And the worst thing we can do on gods' green Earth is to fight like this with each other. Especially over something Michael Moore's said. He's a shit-stirrer of the first order, people. Don't give in to it...you're better than that. :hugz:

[Penthesilea]

I like Bush,and think he is a good man.I voted for him.I couldnt stomach the whining of the other guy.

Bush didnt cause the hurricane,its not his fault.

Nobody is perfect,so if you feel Bush made a mistake,pray for him,and ask for divine wisdom for him,to lead us in troubled times.

I dont think its a good idea to get caught up in hating Bush,he doesnt deserve it.I know a lot of republicans hated Bill Clinton,but hate is hate,and its not good for your soul.

Thats what I think. _handclapp As usual, Azzy gets to the heart of the matter.

[pawnman]

While Michael Moore is certainly interested in agitating, I don't believe that his intent is to "spew hatred" in the pursuit of money, as much as it is to highlight how this administration has failed. This country was polarized during the election, and that polarization has not dissappeared now that we're almost a year into the term. Actually, let me backtrack there, ACTUALLY bushes approval ratings keep slipping, and many people who actually VOTED for Bush initially, are now regretting their decision. And the issues which are unsatisfying to the American Public about the Bush Administration, are not just unsatisfactory due to Michael Moore's comments, they are simply unsatisfactory, PERIOD.

Even Bill Clinton said in an interview last night, that it seems ALMOST 100% of the American Population currently feel that the Government has let the victims of Katrina down. At this point, it will take a huge investigation to figure out on what political level, that shortcoming occurred. It seems to be a mixture, from where I stand. Federal AND local governments failed the victims. That being the case, MM has some cause for raising these angry feelings. You may debate his motives for doing it, but I don't. MM has served as the mouthpiece for a huge section of the american populace who ARE dissatisfied with the way that this country is being governed. He is able to succinctly, comically, and passionately communicate the feelings that many of us DO have.

As far as the race card: Michael Moore is certainly NOT the only one to be expousing this opinion. Racism, and Xenophobia as we know, isn't always as glaring as parading around in a white cloak and hat. Sometimes, it merely comes in the form of neglect. In this case, if racism and xenophobia are present, that's certainly the form its taken. I'm not proposing that it was a deliberate act on the part of Bush to let them die, because he is conciously racist. HOWEVER, it's fair enough to say that there is still a racial devide in much of our country, specifically in some of the southern states. Deliberate? I don't think so. But I think we are still fighting many of the same issues racially, as we've been fighting for years. There is a HUGE difference in education, still. There is a HUGE difference in the wages, due to that. Etc. And, while people who are well educated, and in good jobs, might have vacation homes to evacuate to, or wealthy family with larger houses to take them in, or good connections to help them evacuate, the poor segment of American Society, which in the area of New Orleans is LARGELY black, don't have those same chances. Thus, more provision SHOULD be made in crisis planning, to address those who do NOT have all of the opportunities at their disposal, as some of the more financially secure. Michael Moore may be a little strident in his attack on Mr. Bush's reaction to the disaster, but the points which he is making, are points being considered by many people, leftists, and rightwingers, alike. Let's not forget, MANY people from our southern states, ARE known to be political conservatives. Thus, many of them probably DID vote for Bush. And here, many of those people ARE feeling as if their government has failed them. I don't necessarily believe that it was a racially motivated move on the part of our government. But I do believe, that it does highlight some of the glaring problems in our society when it comes to racial, and economic devisions.

As I said, it will take a long time, to investigate exactly where the blame lay. But at this point, it's generally accepted that someplace, somewhere along the line, Government failed these people. And right now, blaming the country's leader for it's failure, is a fairly realistic reaction, it is at the very least, an understandable one. He is the commander in chief. We look to our nations presidents as the one to protect us, and guide us, with the decisions that he makes. People sort of look at the President they elected, as their leader in troubled times. That is why George Bushs Presence on, and directly following 9/11 WAS so highly important.

Michael Moore is angry, but he is certainly representing the opinions of MANY here in the states, who are angry. And they are certainly entitled to their anger. Somewhere, something failed, and big time. And Michael Moore is throwing down the gauntlet, FOR those people, and demanding an explanation. Surely, while his way of stating that, and issuing the challenge, is volatile, and explosively worded, it's no different than anything many are saying at the moment, here in the US.

I think they feel that way because of how it's been protrayed in the media. Even though I managed to find the evacuation plan on the internet, I haven't heard anything about it on TV. I haven't heard a lot about how Ray and Kathleen failed in their duties as mayor and governor, respectively. All I'm hearing is those two trying to pass the blame on to Bush for FEMA not responding quickly enough. Buses? They were available...and not used. Evacuation? Ordered about 36 hours too late. Disaster? Declared about 24 hours too late. Control in the shelters? Non-existent. You can't tell thousands of people "Go to the Superdome, any way you can get there, and bring your own food. No, there's no help for you there, and there's no one to keep order, but you'll be fine".

Fact is, this whole thing could have been prevented with some better decisions on the state and local level, yet everyone wants to blame Bush for the lack of federal response.

Edited to add: as for the race card...the one guy who could have done the most to save people is none other than the black mayor, Ray Nagin. Also, let's not forget that it's the democrats, not the republicans, who have been controlling Louisiana and New Orleans for the past two decades.

[Danustouch]

This is so far from the truth it's laughable.

Just because someone isn't running around, insisting that you & everyone else listens to their relentless self-aggrandizement about how much they've given to Hurricane Relef or any charity doesn't mean they haven't contributed in some way.
Some people prefer to contribute in quiet ways that don't call attention to themselves.
For example, Jews give to charity for the sole purpose of helping others. We don't make a big deal of it; that's against our beliefs. There's kind of a karmic effect of making a big deal of charitable acts that negates the contribution...sort of ripping the gold stars off our 'good person' charts.
I am willing to bet cash that 99% of the Jewish community where I live has no idea at all who the biggest contributer within the community is. I'm Jewish & I read the local Jewish weekly, & I have no idea.
When I went off about sending money to Red Cross & giving blood, I meant to make a point that liberals are concerned enough to pony up & help out, not to make myself look good. I know that's how it looks, & I'll have to answer for it someday.
I heard on BBC World Service last night that Americans have contributed over $400 million so far. If all of us were intent on bragging that we've given & how much, we'd need newspapers & TV & radio stations of our own just to get the word out.



$400 million.......that kind of money can't be raised just from conservatives. It takes a lot of people tto raise that much; conservative, liberal, libertarians, & people who don't care enough to vote ever. People that know there are Americans who desperately need our help, & are anxious to give whatever help we can afford.
Not every one who has contributed needs to be patted on the head like a puppy who's just successfully fetched his first stick. IMO, the people that are contributing just for that pat are pretty sad.

IMO, you've insulted everyone who contributed from the heart, quietly & without any expectation of pats on the head.

Addendum to this...Just read this story on MSNBC, and thought, Garnet, it would be touching to you, as it was to me...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9244195/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9244195/)

[Garnet]

Addendum to this...Just read this story on MSNBC, and thought, Garnet, it would be touching to you, as it was to me...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9244195/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9244195/)

It was. Thank you, hon.

[Valnorran]

IMO, you've insulted everyone who contributed from the heart, quietly & without any expectation of pats on the head.
Then you've put an awful lot of effort into not paying attention to what I wrote. I have specifically and repeatedly said my contempt was for those who's contribution to relief efforts has been nothing but opinions.

[Danustouch]

Update, Guess What? I'm sure you'll all just be shocked and thrilled...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9246111/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9246111/)

[pawnman]

Update, Guess What? I'm sure you'll all just be shocked and thrilled...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9246111/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9246111/)

No ulterior motives there...

Perhaps we'll see how Bush used his "Super Secret Weather Laser" to try to kill off New Orleans. Or his "Levy Bursting Bombs" dispatched by black helicopter to make the situation worse.

[Darakash]

No ulterior motives there...

Perhaps we'll see how Bush used his "Super Secret Weather Laser" to try to kill off New Orleans. Or his "Levy Bursting Bombs" dispatched by black helicopter to make the situation worse.

LOL! But seriously, one of the things that sticks in my craw..is that we have known for decades that the Levees in N.O. were inadequate to deal with higher level hurricanes, but somehow the fact that Bush failed to fund fixing them is the cause of this, and the several presidents before him (or at least the democrats) are not to blame at all....it happened this year, so he caused it!

[Valnorran]

I've heard something that may or may not be true, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was. I've heard that money was given to build, repair, and maintain levees - and that most of it went to maintaining floating casinos. I'll see if I can find some info to either confirm or deny this.

[pawnman]

I've heard something that may or may not be true, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was. I've heard that money was given to build, repair, and maintain levees - and that most of it went to maintaining floating casinos. I'll see if I can find some info to either confirm or deny this.

I, too, have heard that the federal government gave Louisiana money ear-marked for flood control and that the money ended up elsewhere. Where it went, I'm not sure.

[Valnorran]

I, too, have heard that the federal government gave Louisiana money ear-marked for flood control and that the money ended up elsewhere. Where it went, I'm not sure.
If it's true, I can tell you exactly where that money went - into people's pockets. Louisiana politics has been rife with corruption and/or incompetence from Day 1.

[WokeUpDead]

I've heard something that may or may not be true, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was. I've heard that money was given to build, repair, and maintain levees - and that most of it went to maintaining floating casinos. I'll see if I can find some info to either confirm or deny this.

You're probably right. All sorts of money ends up in the wrong places either because of mismanagement or pork.

[Valnorran]

The Washington Post had an article on it, but I can't post a link because I'm not registered with them.

[Valnorran]

All right, I've found another source.
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050908/REPOSITORY/509080380/1013/NEWS03 (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050908/REPOSITORY/509080380/1013/NEWS03)