Who gets the blame for New Orleans?

[pawnman]

Who's fault is it the rescue efforts haven't gone off as well as they could? Is it Bush's fault for not acting soon enough? Is it the governor of LA for not planning ahead? Is it the mayor of NO for not realizing what would happen? Is it the people of NO for taking a bad situation and making it worse? Or is it just a tragedy that was unpreventable and no amount of planning could have lessened the impact?

Personally, I think a lot of blame goes to the Governor of LA. Watching the news last night, I finally heard why it took the National Guard 5 days to get there...because the governor dragged her feet in calling them up. She could have called them up prior to the storm hitting the area and pre-positioned them and their equipment around New Orleans. I think the mayor takes some of the blame as well. He should have done something to assure a complete evacuation. How many people are left on rooftops because they didn't heed the MANDATORY evacuation notices? I think they had time for the cops to drive through a few neighborhoods and order people out.

[Mithrea]

I think it's time we stop worrying about who is to blame and just worry about how to help.

[Storm Moon]

I think it's time we stop worrying about who is to blame and just worry about how to help.

Couldn't have said that better myself.

[Xander67]

I agree!

This is not the time to worry about would have, should have, and could have...
we need to focus on the rescue and recovery process...

there are still an estimated 50,000 citezens still in and around new orleans that need to be evacuated.. also, there are still people camped on rooftops waiting for thier turn to be rescued...
also, Mississippi is still in the rescue phaze... all this negative talk is counterproductive.
Before we blame anyone for so called "failures" we need to consider that this is the first time we have had to deal with this on our own soil...

Fema had an arc of Pre Positioned equiptment positioned in the perimiter of the city of new orleans
with the intent of moving in behind the storm .. No one anticipated what was to happen...
The levee breach pretty much prevented Fema from going on with thier plan... Consequently, all those trucks had to be moved...

The military needed time to load the planes, then there was the matter of calling up all those soldiers and telling them to report for duty (Remember National Guard are called up at home and some of them needed to travel to the base)

It is easy to sit in the comfort of our own homes and criticize people for not acting fast enough...

while we sat and watched what looked like total abandonment by our government, what do you think they were doing???? I Will tell you... they were loading trucks, planes, and responding...

No, How dare we blame anyone NOW, Now is not the time... I see poloticians doing this on tv, but it is easy to do that to look good especially when they are up for re election.. they knew full well help was comming....
There will be time for that later, we can learn from this, and maybe we can be able to prepare for something like this in the future....

SHAME ON POLOTICS! WHO CARES< lets just get those people out of there!!!

[Illiandra]

As nice as it would be to just sweep this under to rug and deal with the aftermath you cant. If you just ignore how this got this screwed up you cant learn from the mistakes made so this never happens again. It isn't like people were not aware of the potential tragedy and devestation that would occur when this level 5 hurrican hit the coast. Hurricans kill and destroy everything in there path ask anyone who has lived in Florida. You get the hell out of dodge and pray it doesn't hit you. The gov of Louisina, the Mayor of New Orleans should have been mobilizing people well befor that storm came on shore. It did the people no good for them to sit and talk about how terrible it would be when the storm hit and do nothing. Let alone how the people reacted. This should be a situation that we learn from. What if a really bad earthquake were to hit California, or Some hurrican pass over New York and they had the kind of Storm Surge that hit Mississippi. They are both areas of our country that are know for their civil unrest. This is a learning experience, though tragic and I for one do not want to just forget how it got this bad.

[AutumnWitchie]

How about "all of the above". As my hubby would say "the seven P's were not in play". "Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Preformance" My hubby works logistics and cannot understand why more was not done beforehand. You see a Cat 5 hurricane aiming for your city/state and you don't stock the shelter beforehand???? Oy vey!

[Gwenhwyfar]

all of the above is what Id choose.

[Threase]

all of the above is what Id choose.

Ditto

[Moriganna]

I blame no one for what happened, but I do put alot of blame on what it's becoming on those that are still there finding the need to steal and shoot people. I don't mean those that are still stranded on their roof tops and left to die, I mean those that find it strangely necessary to steal things (i.e. tv's, etc... not having a thing to do with survival..) and shoot at those that are doing what they can to try to save their damn lives. It sickens me to no end that rather than trying to stick together and help each other, that they've turned to shooting and looting. What is the reason for the shooting? There is NO reason for it.

On a side note, the Governer did know that this was coming long before it hit. She should have made it priority to ban together with the government and plan to evactuate the entire city (meaning helping those less fortunate to get the hell out) long before the hurricane hit. I've got friends all over the gulf coast of Louisiana and though they had means of transportation, they knew to get the hell out sometime before it hit. When they began warning about the destruction that this storm would cause, most with reliable transport DID just that and left. At that point, those that couldn't leave on their own, should have been evacuated (school busses, public transport, what have you) by the GOVERNMENT. They should have had those resources in place to get the city evactuated completely before the last minute.

Then there are those that were just plain stupid and refused to leave, even if they had transportation to do so. I hear alot of people saying that pride stood in the way of some of the residents because they didn't want to leave behind the precious city they grew up in. I understand pride, but I'd rather save my own life, than worry about my personal belongings or my favorite city. (not sure if I made sense there, but run with me here..) Some that stayed had means of transportation but did nothing to leave. There were also many that thought "we've lived through hurricanes before, what's one more?". Not acceptable. If you had any sense, and had been watching the magnitude of this storm, you would have thought twice and left.

I feel for those that were so poor or sick, that couldn't leave on their own, because that's where the Government should have stepped in and done what they could to evacuate them. There's no reason for not helping them prior to its hit.

I don't feel sorry for the looters and shooters because they're are causing the problems that we're having to go in and try to stop now.

And I don't blame Dubya in the least, even though i've never been too fond of the guy. He's doing what he can to get them the help they need, but it does take time. He had to get the troops together and they in the meantime had to get supplies ready to go. It takes time... maybe they could have gotten there sooner, but what good would they have been to those that were hungry and starving and needing medications without the means to give it to them? It takes a bit of time to get together the supplies needed and to travel there to get it to them.... and then it brings me right back to.. shooting. The troops are getting SHOT AT for trying to give these people the food and water that they need.

Ugh.. this whole thing just irritates the crap outta me. I'm sorry for the long post, but I get to rambling and can't stop, on this subject. :)

[jcldragon]

The Army Corps of Engineers's budget was cut three years in a row, and that's why the levee was not up to code.

Weather satellites showed what was about to happen, but no emergency plans were made.

The National Guard is supposed to be available to be deployed inside the state they originate in. Instead they were on the other side of the planet.

The Russians immediately offered to send in their Rescue Teams. Bush & FEMA turned them down.

The Canadians have had their Rescue Teams equipped & ready to go in there on a moment's notice for several days now. They only need one word. Bush hasn't given it.

[CoolJ]

I think it's time we stop worrying about who is to blame and just worry about how to help.

123123123

yes...

But since we can't, it must be everyone's fault

[pawnman]

The Army Corps of Engineers's budget was cut three years in a row, and that's why the levee was not up to code.

Weather satellites showed what was about to happen, but no emergency plans were made.

The National Guard is supposed to be available to be deployed inside the state they originate in. Instead they were on the other side of the planet.
The Russians immediately offered to send in their Rescue Teams. Bush & FEMA turned them down.

The Canadians have had their Rescue Teams equipped & ready to go in there on a moment's notice for several days now. They only need one word. Bush hasn't given it.

Actually, they were gathered in Baton Rouge, waiting for a call from the Governor.

[Xander67]

I think that in the future there needs to be a response plan...

The Response personell did not anticipate not being able to move in the equipt ... they did not anticipate and plan for a levee breach, they did not plan for the security concerns...

several people have in the past presented a doomsday scenario which went ignored...

we all can learn from this....

I think it is too early to start pointing fingers,

[DixieWitch]

Did anyone see the story about what The Times Picayune covered in 2002? They did a 5 part report that basically said "this is what would happen if New Orleans was hit by a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane." To date, everything they said that would happen, has happened. The levee's that broke--they are 100 plus years old. They hadn't even bothered to take to heart this report. Now yes, given it was a newspaper report. But what if for once in this world, what the media reported was true? OMG it is true!! I think if they had paid attention back then, maybe things wouldn't have happened on the level it did. I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened at all, but maybe, just maybe, the extent of what happened would have been even slightly less worse. I honestly think our gov't is to blame? Why did it take them almost 5 days to get help out there when we were dropping relief for the tsunami victims the next day? They're pointing the fingers at each other. FEMA said they stopped relief efforts because of the people shooting. Then there's the blame of flood water. When I first started watching all this stuff on CNN a few days ago, I was saddened by what is going on. Now as time goes by, I just get angry. When I see pictures of the people sitting on the side of the road or at the Convention Center, among piles of garbage and dead bodies, I get enraged. There is no excuse anymore why they can't get in there and do something. I also watched something from the Black Caucus last night. They were saying it was happening because of the color of people there. What if they are right? And if they are, what gives anyone the right to pick and chose who they save because they are black, white, rich or poor. It reminds me of the story I heard on CNN. A woman called CNN from the Ritz in downtown NO. She and about 300 of her collegues where stuck there with no way out. They were from Maryland. Within the hour of CNN playing her phone call, rescue helicopters were there and they were made to walk a whole 4 blocks to another hotel. From there, they were picked up and moved to Houston(I think) and flown directly home to Maryland. Hmm why were they rescued so fast? It wouldn't have anything to do with the color of their skin or their money now would it? The Black Caucus also spoke of the mayor of Detroit. He has offered IMMEDIATE housing, food, water, clothing, etc to 500 families. He will have them air lifted out of the region and put immediatly into homes in Detroit. All he needs is someone to say "yes". What about the huge force of state troopers driving down from Virginia/West Virginia coming to help? 3 hours into their trip, they were turned away by the Louisiana State Police because they couldn't approve them getting into help. They had more manpower and trailers of supplies. They were told bascially "we don't have the food, water, etc to take care of you" What was in those trailers? Enough supplies to take care of themselves while they were there. All I can say is that someone needs to get their head out of their ass and do something. It's getting to the point of too late for these people. And all the relief efforts and telethons and Red Cross drives isn't going to help. What's going to help is someone getting this people off the streets and someone where safe where they have food and water. And as the Black Caucus said last night, which never dawned on me....Stop calling them refugees. They are American citizens who pay taxes like everyone else. They have as much right to live and be safe and out of these conditions as much as the next person.

OK my rant is off now...and I think I'll stop responding to Hurricane posts here for a while.

[Mishka]

We are all heartbroken over this. This should not be happening in America, not with our resources. And all we can do is sit, worry, cry, maybe send some money and always feel like it's not enough. Human beings should not be living like animals. This is a disgrace as well as a tragedy.

I choose "all of the above". It's a natural disaster, we have no control over nature. But there was so much that could have been done. I say screw waiting for the "word". Canada and Russia can be my guests to come and help since our administration seems incapable of taking the situation by the balls and making use of every resource. News teams can get in. But those with leadership skills and help cannot? BS

I hate this helpless feeling, but those people feel a hundred times more helpless. And they should not. They should be feeling like all is being done that can be, to trust that help is on the way. If I were there, I would not be feeling that is so.

[DixieWitch]

News teams can get in. But those with leadership skills and help cannot? BS

Yeah, WTF is up with that? their answer would be to get the story out there and to help those looking for friends and family. BS BS BS

[Lunacie]

I agree that the answer is most likely "all of the above".

This was a hard lesson for our country, and I hope we have learned something, especially our leaders and politicians.

[BeachWitch]

I think this disaster has made evident that no matter how many studies are completed, no matter how much preparedness is observed, the fact of the matter is that the working poor simply can not be mobilized without government assistance.

No one to date (except Randi Rhodes on Air America) has talked about the fact that Public Transportation was not made available to evacuees prior to the storm.

How many people on this forum are living at or below the poverty line? I know there are quite a few. How many here do not have a vehicle? I know there are quite a few. So how would you get out of town in an evacuation when there is no transportation and no where to go?

So who is to blame? How about society as a whole. How about Corporate America. How about the oil mongers.

Let's be clear that the people trapped in NO are the poorest of the poor. To say they are at rock bottom would be a compliment because most of these people live with no money, not one red cent, for at least 3 weeks out of every 4.

I would choose all of the above if there was an option.

[Lunacie]

Even people with a car and a little money would have a hard decision to make in the event of an evacuation. My daughter and I were discussing this last night. Some days she would have enough money to fill up the gas tank and maybe pay for one or two nights in a motel somewhere. Some days she wouldn't have enough money to fill the gas tank half way and those people who made it out probably spent that much gas just being stuck in the gridlock of others who were fleeing. She doesn't have any family or friends in other states to go to for help. All our family and friends live within 150 miles of us.

I remember some years ago seeing places that had been designated as safe shelters and they were indeed stocked with food and water. Is that not being done anymore? It would have made a huge difference for the people inside the Superdome and the Convention Center in N.O.

[enchancea]

all of the above is what Id choose.
Same here

[Lunacie]

Also... I don't see it as a matter of blaming anyone. I think there are people who should have taken the responsibility to prevent some of this and to get the help and rescue going sooner. And I really hope this is a wake up call for those who are responsible for planning and prevention and for rescue the next time, and the next time, and the time after that...

[Janus109]

I don't know who's fault it is and I am not going to ponder on it. But what I don't understand is that why the buses that were going to pick-up people were not loaded down with water and "meals-ready-to-eat" given out to the people when the buses arrived.

I understand that this wasn't done. And really there isn't any excuse for it IMHO. If they can plan for buses to arrive at a certain place they can surely stock those buses with food and water to give out to the people who are suffering.

rk

[Lunacie]

I didn't understand why they had to wait for special busses when there were probably at least a few school busses right there that could have been used. I dunno, maybe they were all under water.

[omar]

When you play the blame game, everyone is guilty.

[xstarE_nitex]

I voted no one... pointing fingers is not going to help... mother nature can suprise us all... and this is something huge... no one has ever handled before... it has to be organized to end the chaos...... and to make sure everyone gets taken care of... and thats alot of people!!!!

you gotta look at it from all points of view... and thats alot to take in...

[xstarE_nitex]

I didn't understand why they had to wait for special busses when there were probably at least a few school busses right there that could have been used. I dunno, maybe they were all under water.


I saw some school busses being used.... but some were probrably under water...

[StormVixen]

:wah: :sniffsnif

[Lunacie]

I saw some school busses being used.... but some were probrably under water...

Thanks for letting me know, I haven't been watching much tv, just looking for news on the internt, and I hadn't seen that. 'Cause if it was a choice of waiting for a nice air-conditioned bus or getting out NOW on a plain old school bus, I'd get out now.

[WAHM-Brenda]

I picked other ...

To begin with this is a natural disaster and things are bound to happen BUT I think that a lot could have been done better...

President Bush should have sent help sooner; Governor Blanco shouldn't have hesitated in calling in the national Guard; Mayor Ray Nagin should have planned ahead; and now some of the people there are making it worse.

=^..^= Pastor Brenda
Ordained ULC Minister
yourhealthyfamily@consultant.com
An Eclectic Christian (http://www.yourhealthyfamilyhome.com)
Discover a way to increase your health and/or income! (http://practicalsolution.info)


http://yourhealthyfamilyhome.com/numerology.jpg (http://www.mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=205)

http://yourhealthyfamilyhome.com/katrina.jpg

http://yourhealthyfamilyhome.com/katrina2.jpg

[VelvetBlade]

I think they mayor and gov are responsible for NOT planning ahead. They had plenty of notice that this was a major hurricane, and as far as I'm led to believe...there was a mandatory evacuation of NO. If that's the case...then those who cannot get out on their own, should have been helped....period. Mandatory evacutaion means everyone and everyone means everyone..not just those of means.....

~VB

[jcldragon]

Guess who is getting the big government contract for the clean-up & restoration? That's right! It's Halliburton.

This disaster was entirely predictable, and there sure is a lot more money to be made fixing things after the fact, than there was in preventing it.

The US Pentagon Report on Abrupt Climate Change
http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages/politics/pentagon_climatechange.pdf (http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages/politics/pentagon_climatechange.pdf)

[starry8847]

I agree!!!!!!!!!! I agree !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Starry Di]

I think it's time we stop worrying about who is to blame and just worry about how to help.

I agree, but because I like placing blame, I blame the mayor currently. Cause he could've done more...course, I think he might've been the one to attempt at getting money for flood control (http://www.livejournal.com/users/captainsblog/181602.html), but I totally didn't understand the flood control article, so [[shrugs]]

[starry8847]

[QUOTE=WAHM-Brenda]I picked other ...

To begin with this is a natural disaster and things are bound to happen BUT I think that a lot could have been done better...

President Bush should have sent help sooner; Governor Blanco shouldn't have hesitated in calling in the national Guard; Mayor Ray Nagin should have planned ahead; and now some of the people there are making it worse.

Our own heart of the South has been reduced to rubble and someone didn't pay attention to people that knew their jobs...weather people, storm centers etc......
Yes everyone should have been on ready because our storm warning system told us it was coming...not to the degree it ended up being... MAYBE,but we were really with the mind set that maybe, just maybe ...we'll luck out again!.....WRONG!But what is going over it and over it going to do now??? I am greatful that my daughter and family are safe in Houston now and soon will be with us here in Minnesota!!! _witchball

[atropa]

I think it was a little of all the options.

[atropa]

Guess who is getting the big government contract for the clean-up & restoration? That's right! It's Halliburton.

Oh, for god's sake! What a shocker. Got to shut up now lest I be banned.

[Xander67]

like I said, lets get through the REscue phaze first, that is a priority,

there will be plenty of time for polotics afterwars... I just dont think now is the time...

[pawnman]

Guess who is getting the big government contract for the clean-up & restoration? That's right! It's Halliburton.

This disaster was entirely predictable, and there sure is a lot more money to be made fixing things after the fact, than there was in preventing it.

The US Pentagon Report on Abrupt Climate Change
http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages/politics/pentagon_climatechange.pdf (http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages/politics/pentagon_climatechange.pdf)

Lemme get my tinfoil hat before I start reading about conspiracies...otherwise Halliburton can read my thoughts, and the men in black will come to "re-educate" me.

[Dark Phoenix]

Lemme get my tinfoil hat before I start reading about conspiracies...otherwise Halliburton can read my thoughts, and the men in black will come to "re-educate" me.

No conspiracies just the White House taking scratching the backs of it's supporters.

[Xander67]

Guess who is getting the big government contract for the clean-up & restoration? That's right! It's Halliburton.

This disaster was entirely predictable, and there sure is a lot more money to be made fixing things after the fact, than there was in preventing it.

The US Pentagon Report on Abrupt Climate Change
http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages/politics/pentagon_climatechange.pdf (http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages/politics/pentagon_climatechange.pdf)


There is plenty of work to be done and Haliburton is not the only company getting a contract...

Mississippi is paying people out of the state coffers to come help in the clean up, there is some 200+ million allocated for this... anyone can come work and they will be paid.

[Jenne]

None of the political fingerpointing is really necessary, but it's not surprising either. The feds will blame the small govt institutions and the small govt inst have been blaming the feds for about a week. And rightly so. Xander's right that we need less "well I didn't hear to go in, so I waited" and more "Ok, I didn't hear NOT to go in, so in we go"--esp when it's obvious that help is needed by the amount of carnage in the streets floating by.

[AmericanMe]

As I posted in another thread, we will see who get pinned for this. However, what is apparent is how every side is attempting to shift blame.

IMO Mayor Nagin is guilty of 'dereliction of duty' for not taking care of his people prior to the disaster. This picture tells it all:
http://img3.buzznet.com/assets/users8/gojackarmy12/default/gallery-msg-1125709527-2.jpg?695413520
Then add to that the haphazard evacuation into the Superdome without adequate water or food. Piss-poor lack of planning.

The Govenor is derelict because she failed to make timely decisions both before and after the storm. She hindered rather than helped.

The Feds: DoHS has too much bureaucracy to act quickly, the director of that agency was already planning to lighten the agency before this disaster. That said, they are under pressure because the local leaders didn't do their jobs in the first place and are now trying to shift blame.

The residents of NOLA: Most got out. A few chose to stay at their own peril, which wasn't very smart. Those who could not leave were pretty much left to fend for themselves by their leaders, but those residents failed at that. I'm sorry, I sure as hell would not sit on my ass in filth and expect someone else to take care of me when there are others wounded and dying to be found. But hey, I guess that's the mentality these days.

[Janus109]

It doesn't surprise me in the least to see Hailburton & KBR and the other big friends of the Bush's in the Gulf making a buck off of this disaster. They were interviewing some guy on TV last night talking about taking away funds from local government from fixing the levies from the local budget funds. They could have easily fixed those levies if they wanted to.

I'am sure more will come out on this in the next few weeks.

rk :needcoffe

[AmericanMe]

It doesn't surprise me in the least to see Hailburton & KBR and the other big friends of the Bush's in the Gulf making a buck off of this disaster. They were interviewing some guy on TV last night talking about taking away funds from local government from fixing the levies from the local budget funds. They could have easily fixed those levies if they wanted to.


Here we go...

Realize this: KBR has been contracted by the government since Vietnam; that they built the bases used by our military in every theater of war since at least the early 90's. Realize that they are the best in the business and to not contract with them is foolish.

Here is the facts:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685 (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685)
The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina.

Halliburton subsidiary KBR will also perform damage assessments at other naval installations in New Orleans as soon as it is safe to do so.

KBR was assigned the work under a "construction capabilities" contract awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process. The company is not involved in the Army Corps of Engineers' effort to repair New Orleans' levees.

[Shanti]

I feel that NOLA wasnt a natural disaster. The flood happened because the levees where designed for a cat3, not a 4 or 5. It was preventable if the levees would of been built better to begin with or at least updated. NOLA happen because of broken levees. The hurricane itself didnt do that much damage to the city.
Bush cut the funding to upgrade those levees. He is responsible for that part.

My opinion only.

[lynn271]

The residents of NOLA: Most got out. A few chose to stay at their own peril, which wasn't very smart. Those who could not leave were pretty much left to fend for themselves by their leaders, but those residents failed at that. I'm sorry, I sure as hell would not sit on my ass in filth and expect someone else to take care of me when there are others wounded and dying to be found. But hey, I guess that's the mentality these days.

Sure, neither would I. But, of course, I'm not old, or sick, or injured, or disabled, and I likely wouldn't have family members with me that are, nor do I have small children. These things do make it a just bit difficult to fend for yourself, though I'm sure if they had the right mentality, they'd have done just fine. Right?

[mcc]

As I posted in another thread, we will see who get pinned for this. However, what is apparent is how every side is attempting to shift blame.
And you're here to lead the charge?

[pawnman]

Sure, neither would I. But, of course, I'm not old, or sick, or injured, or disabled, and I likely wouldn't have family members with me that are, nor do I have small children. These things do make it a just bit difficult to fend for yourself, though I'm sure if they had the right mentality, they'd have done just fine. Right?

Or if their mayor hadn't let 400 buses be flooded and had put them to better use instead.

[Flar's Freyja]

The residents of NOLA: Most got out. A few chose to stay at their own peril, which wasn't very smart. Those who could not leave were pretty much left to fend for themselves by their leaders, but those residents failed at that. I'm sorry, I sure as hell would not sit on my ass in filth and expect someone else to take care of me when there are others wounded and dying to be found. But hey, I guess that's the mentality these days.

:fpraiseyo

[AmericanMe]

Sure, neither would I. But, of course, I'm not old, or sick, or injured, or disabled, and I likely wouldn't have family members with me that are, nor do I have small children. These things do make it a just bit difficult to fend for yourself, though I'm sure if they had the right mentality, they'd have done just fine. Right?

Tell me, how many of those going into the Superdome, or who waited outside it, were not physically healthy? Relatively few, from what we've been shown on TV. What is the excuse for the rest of them?

[Flar's Freyja]

And you're here to lead the charge?

I was in the car all day yesterday for my merchandising job and made the mistake of listening to NPR - and for the first time I was very disappointed in them. They seemed to be taking a biased slant when it comes to placing blame.

At this point I feel that it is time to move on. It happened. Hopefully we learned from it. There is work to be done, damage to be repaired and people to help. Shut up and get to work.