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View Full Version : 200 NO police have quit, 2 have committed suicide



Trithemius
September 4th, 2005, 09:09 AM
This represents about 15% of the force.


P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police, said most of his officers were staying at their posts. But in an unusual note of sympathy for a top police official, he said it was understandable that many were frustrated. He said morale was "not very good."

Link to Story (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ei=5090&en=8bf8550c348bbc33&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)

AmericanMe
September 4th, 2005, 11:29 AM
The NOLA PD is one of the most corrupt in the nation, so corrupt that it actually had to be placed under federal control.

VelvetBlade
September 4th, 2005, 11:35 AM
Bunch of freakin' cowards as far as I'm concerned. When the going gets tough...the tough QUIT.....

~VB

WynterWynd
September 5th, 2005, 05:49 AM
Corruption aside.......

It seems very easy to belittle and berate a situation that a lot of people couldn't handle, be it mentally, physically or both.

I do hope the police that are left in NO get the help they need.

Willow Rosette
September 5th, 2005, 06:57 AM
I doubt I could handel it. Since we dont know everything these men and women are going through Id like to think they quit to stay sane. I mean come on? I just dont think I could handel seeing that day in and day out.

Faery-Wings
September 5th, 2005, 07:02 AM
I had heard about the two suicides. Just awful. :(

We are going to have a force full of PTSD. I hope that they have the brains to get a lot of counseling offered to all- police and volunteers- and residents- who need it.

Teresa
September 5th, 2005, 01:16 PM
I am not going to crtitcise them or berate them.I choose to send them energies to get thru this.THE TIME Has come to stop pointing fingers and laying BLAME and Criticise and do what WE can to Help!

BeachWitch
September 5th, 2005, 03:07 PM
The NOLA PD is one of the most corrupt in the nation, so corrupt that it actually had to be placed under federal control.

And your remark has what exactly to do with the story? I'm a little confused as to how the NOLA PD being corrupt has any bearing on the tragedy.

BeachWitch
September 5th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Bunch of freakin' cowards as far as I'm concerned. When the going gets tough...the tough QUIT.....

~VB

This was inappropriate. What natural disaster have you lived through Hurricane Hugo? Andrew? Midwest floods of the 90's? Northridge Earthquake?

What basis for comparison do you have to determine that these people are cowards?

Are you aware of the many NYPD and NYFD who committed suicide in the wake of 9/11? In the 5, 10 and 15 days after the attack? There were more than the media let on.

Please try and temper your remarks with some sympathy.

healeri2
September 5th, 2005, 03:20 PM
I think all people handle things differently. Some people are stronger than others in different situations. Some are weaker. I'm sure the cops that quit just didn't wimp out, I'm sure they did the best they could, they went to their very limits. Some can hold out longer than others. People handle stress differently, and I'm sure that those who quit were emotionally, physically and spiritually weakened to the point where they simply couldn't continue. Extreme hunger, fatigue and fear are often more powerful than the will. Judging people in such a situation doesn't help anything.

More people need to be sent in to help. For those who are mouthing about those who couldn't continue, why don't you go down and help out, volunteer.

wolf
September 5th, 2005, 04:13 PM
I had heard about the two suicides. Just awful. :(

We are going to have a force full of PTSD. I hope that they have the brains to get a lot of counseling offered to all- police and volunteers- and residents- who need it.

This hopefully will be addressed by people who actually know what they are doing. You can't just send a bunch of shrinks and social workers in and hope for the best. There are specific techniques and organizations for dealing with something like this.

Yes, I should sound a little passionate about this. I am a disaster mental health and critical incident stress management specialist, and have seen some of the more harm than good that can be caused.

I'm on standby for possible activation to go to New Orleans.

I don't know if I will be able to go, even if I am called ... my employer controls that. They did not let me respond to NYC for the WTC, so we'll have to see what happens with this.

CzechWoods
September 5th, 2005, 04:28 PM
I am not going to crtitcise them or berate them.I choose to send them energies to get thru this.THE TIME Has come to stop pointing fingers and laying BLAME and Criticise and do what WE can to Help!

I believe what causes people to be very strict against the police is their view of police in general. we all tend too easily to believe that police officers are some kind of über-guys. this is of course fed by the mass media and the administrations. we are taught respect towards the police wo/men plus take all the good movies and shows about cops ... the books, the detective stories... long story short: we tend to idealize these people, simply forgettinmg they are nothing but like us. human

the uniform, and their training sure distinguishes them from an averege person, but this is but the surface. underneath that surface, they face the same fears, hopes and dispairs.

I wopuld like to underline the excellent post quoted above.


for once, stop the guilt tripping and guilt riding, set aside all oppositions and suspicions, and do whatever you can, to support the people that form the police. remember they are just as scared as you are, probaby even more, because additionally to your fears,, they stand eye in eye with the dangers: the humans that hate/fear them, people who use them as garbage cans for their frustrations, plus the very material facts, that standing in water up to your thighs, a water with corpses and chemicals and scat swimming in it, stinking air above them, and debris all around, is MUCH worse than JUSTthe already very shocking pictures on tv.

and additionally, these people after doing FAR MORE than their duty, when they come home, or into the camps they are at while not on service watch the TV, see the whole picture and can see the blame game going on.

can you imagine, how desperate YOU would feel, if you did your job; PROPERLY, even more than that, wotrking overtime, and come home, and see on TV that all your efforts seem to be worthless inc omparison what is yet to be done ?

dont forget what motivates MOST cops to become police officers: its agreat sence of justice, and a bit of helper syndrome... you know, they mostly joined for idealist reasons, and see themselves overwhelmed and not able to stand by their own ideals.


please, now, instead of analysing and banalysing

send THEM strength.

do you feel helpless? the cops out there feel helpless even more. send energy, to help those PEOPLE

Storm Moon
September 5th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Well, I for one, don't blame the 200 that quit. They probably lost everything just as everyone else there has. I was crushed to hear that 2 have commited suicide. My thoughts and heart go out to their families.

enchancea
September 5th, 2005, 05:33 PM
I am not going to crtitcise them or berate them.I choose to send them energies to get thru this.THE TIME Has come to stop pointing fingers and laying BLAME and Criticise and do what WE can to Help!
I agree

Lewen
September 5th, 2005, 05:34 PM
I was the wife of a cop near New Orleans for nearly 8 years. Sadly we're divorcing/divorced (depends on if the paperwork survived Hurricane katrina). Might have to start all over again, but I digress....

I can speak from experience that police officers in the state of Louisiana get state supplemental pay because their pay scale is one of the lowest, if not the lowest in the US. The average starting salary is $23,000, cops make ends meet by working overtime, extra details and/or getting a second job in addition to probably having a spouse work too.

Pay is low, morale is low, there's corruption on all ends (both in NOPD and JPSO and I'm sure others). Before a hurricane ever hits, you are called to duty. You are forced to choose your job over your family. The job wins because you have to take care of your family. It used to drive cavetroll mad when hurricanes happened because sometimes he couldn't call home and make sure we are all right. Last year, Cavetroll was involved in two fatal shootings where a gun was aimed directly towards him and his back-up officers. He had to kill or be killed and he felt like going home to his family. It affects him. The past three years he's been coming home with more and more stories of how worse the criminal element was getting and that was just in Jefferson parish.

It's a damaged profession down there in NOPD and JPSO. I can't speak for STPO or for other parishes.

Maybe some of them quit because they finally had enough of busting their ass for pennies, to be shot at, out gunned and out-manned and just wanted to collect their families and just leave. One can only take so much.

The pay sucks, the medical sucks, but they do have excellent mental health benefits...I think that was mandatory otherwise the officials in Louisiana and the powers to be would have cut that too. No Dental, no vision...all out of pocket.

I don't blame them...and ironically, after all is said and done, I talked to Cavetroll the other day, he wants to transfer to NOPD from JPSO...I wish him luck. Apparently NOPD pays a tad bit more then JPSO.

You don't want to be a cop or a public school teacher in Louisiana....and it sucks because in Louisiana 9 times out of 10 those people put their asses on the line for some very ungrateful people. I won't even get into the nightmare of Mardi Gras from a cop's perspective. (or the sanitation workers for that matter.)

Gracecat
September 5th, 2005, 07:02 PM
About an hour ago, there was an interview and COP (I think) stated 500 had left, missing, disappeared from duty. And that he understood why they left.

Frankly, the arm chair critics, (corrupt departments for example or insinuating they were cowards) pisses me the hell off. If you think you can do it better, get off your ass and go down there. My two cents.

Gwenhwyfar
September 5th, 2005, 08:06 PM
Its probably been said , but, maybe stop and think how you would feel, being at work knowing your wife and kids could be dead or dieing...I wonder if youd still be at work if that happened to you...theres always more than one way to see a situation.

WynterWynd
September 5th, 2005, 08:17 PM
About an hour ago, there was an interview and COP (I think) stated 500 had left, missing, disappeared from duty. And that he understood why they left.

Frankly, the arm chair critics, (corrupt departments for example or insinuating they were cowards) pisses me the hell off. If you think you can do it better, get off your ass and go down there. My two cents._handclapp_handclapp_handclapp

Agaliha
September 5th, 2005, 08:17 PM
About an hour ago, there was an interview and COP (I think) stated 500 had left, missing, disappeared from duty. And that he understood why they left.
Frankly, the arm chair critics, (corrupt departments for example or insinuating they were cowards) pisses me the hell off. If you think you can do it better, get off your ass and go down there. My two cents.

I agree.
As some that has wanted to be a cop for about nine years of my life, I tend to sympathize with them more than some.
This tragedy goes past Dept. corruption and anything else.
These cops, like those in 9-11 saw things none of us did. There were teenages with their thoats slit and shoved into a cooler. There are dead bodies all over. Babies dying and no one can help. Hearing the cries and pleas of the people and not being able to do a thing. The whole city is in chaos- people dying, looting...etc. We weren't there. We can't know what went though their heads and hearts then. To make judgements on their decisions is unbelievable.
I saw on the news, NOLA cops-- older men-- crying and vowing to stay on the gound because they was what they promised to do. They could have left, but they didn't.
For those who left, I respect that. I might leave myself if I were them.
To all those who stayed, I respect that as well and thank them.
Stop judging them and calling them cowards!
These people risk their life everyday, every damn day. They deserve understanding and respect.

ETA: Just on the news...
All the cops were underfire, from snipers, gangs, riots and everyone else
Some said it looked like Somalia-- a war zone, AK 47s all over
The station houses were underfire
All the while they were trying to help people.

I totally understand their feelings and frustration.

Xander67
September 5th, 2005, 08:18 PM
the number of NOPD that are said to have fled are now at one third...

Agaliha
September 5th, 2005, 09:03 PM
oh and just so you all know.
one of the cops that killed himself is because he went home and found his family dead and his home destroyed. Put that on top of everything else, it's sad and understandable. He witnessed "hell" and lost all he loved and had.

BeachWitch
September 5th, 2005, 09:48 PM
ETA: Just on the news...
All the cops were underfire, from snipers, gangs, riots and everyone else
Some said it looked like Somalia-- a war zone, AK 47s all over
The station houses were underfire
All the while they were trying to help people.

I understand this is a repeat of what is being said in the media, but can we as an internet community please rise above the mainstream and refrain from using insulting terms, such as comparing NO to Somalia?

Honestly, when these military and police interviewees use the expression, they are not being nice. It is most definately a slur. There are AK47s all over the place in Chechnia and in the embattled provinces of Russia, but you don't here those comparisons being made.

So let's stop with the Somalia references, even if the media is pushing the expression on us.

And quite frankly, unless you were in the military in the late 80's early 90's you have no idea how horrible a reference this is, trust me, I know.

Agaliha
September 5th, 2005, 10:06 PM
BeachWitch
I meant no insult to anyone.
I was repeating what police officers have told the news people. They are the ones that said that.
Not me.
I don't think they meant it as any insult, it is just something they can compare to--as people seem to need to compare it to something. Such as the 1993 battle of Mogodishu (sp) which inspired Black Hawk Down. I don't know.
People were comparing it all to the Tsumai, to Hiroshima and that is no where close either.
::sigh:: I guess I won't be reporting the news on here anymore...

BeachWitch
September 5th, 2005, 10:39 PM
BF - I know, I have a knee jerk reaction to Mogudishu, the Black Hawk Down story and resulting events, because I knew peers who were on the ground in the aftermath.

Let's try to remember that this is happening on US soil to US citizens. These are citizens fighting citizens. It's god-awful and heartbreaking.

PropheticMonkey
September 5th, 2005, 10:54 PM
I wonder....everyone is coming together in this disaster except the people who have lived through it. Does anyone else find this a bit strange?

Willow Rosette
September 5th, 2005, 11:27 PM
I wonder....everyone is coming together in this disaster except the people who have lived through it. Does anyone else find this a bit strange?

Just a thought but I think I would feel with all the violence and stuff a bit of the fend for your self attitude would be hard to fight off.

But I do think over all they are helping each other. I saw a news clip of several black people holding wet towels to an old white womans head after she had become over heated. I dont mean to point out their race except to say that they werent family just helping eachother out.

Gracecat
September 5th, 2005, 11:32 PM
Nope, because you're getting just the negative. Someone shoots a helicopter while they're on a mission to save people. That's newsworthy. A family gets their first loaf of bread after three days, eh who cares.

These officers are suffering post traumatic stress syndrome first and foremost. They're dealing with private, personal horror on top of city chaos. I don't know about you, but there are only so many bloated drowned babies I can push to the side before giving up when my *own* child's future is uncertain.

They had zero communication because services were down, they had orders to leave the looters alone because it'd be one sided to the citizens favor, constant questions of when when when.... It's called burn out and it's a situation they have to deal with every single normal day. Ask any social worker how many colleagues they've lost to burn out. That's social workers, in a bureaucratic office. What about emergency room nurses, during routine shifts, the same thing.

And you persecute police officers because they failed to perform to your nice air-conditioned living room standards? Sure, they wear the uniform but it doesn't make them infalliable or superhuman.

I commend the ones that stayed, I believe they should hold a senority over all others that currently serve on the force. If one that left comes up against one that stayed for promotion, I believe the ones that stayed should succeed in most cases. I think they should be honored for their duty. But I do not believe the ones that left should be made to feel less than or insignificant. Instead, I believe they too should be commended for returning to service after enduring such traumatic life changing situations.

wolf
September 6th, 2005, 12:30 AM
If things go well, there will be less news to report. Thus, we only see the chaos, the disorder, looting, attempts to justify looting, and death of innocents ...

It's bad at a disaster scene, but there are a lot of good and heroic things happening as well. Hopefully those stories will get told too.

Agaliha
September 6th, 2005, 12:59 AM
It's bad at a disaster scene, but there are a lot of good and heroic things happening as well. Hopefully those stories will get told too.

I have heard plenty of good stories. Animals saved and found, people volunteering, mothers united with lost babies and relatives reunited, people helping out, cops and rescuers vowing to help everyone, survivor's stories...

But like with all news-- local and national, they thrive on the bad as well. That's why I refuse to watch my local news--it's more annoying and worse than national.

But today I did see a story on there about a woman who was in labor and swam for half an hour (and in no form of disrespect-- she was a larger woman) she got to safety and delivered her baby. But she lost her son in all the chaos, he had asthma and was the reason she took such risks and left. She was in Houston and he was in Baton Rouge (i think) and a woman from the hospital drove all night to get her son to suprise her and reunite them. A chruch made a nursery for her and her family. She was SO happy to see her son and husband.
That was a good story, I enjoyed hearing that one and the good outcomes and things people can do.
:)

Lewen
September 6th, 2005, 07:49 AM
Nope, because you're getting just the negative. Someone shoots a helicopter while they're on a mission to save people. That's newsworthy. A family gets their first loaf of bread after three days, eh who cares.

These officers are suffering post traumatic stress syndrome first and foremost. They're dealing with private, personal horror on top of city chaos. I don't know about you, but there are only so many bloated drowned babies I can push to the side before giving up when my *own* child's future is uncertain.

They had zero communication because services were down, they had orders to leave the looters alone because it'd be one sided to the citizens favor, constant questions of when when when.... It's called burn out and it's a situation they have to deal with every single normal day. Ask any social worker how many colleagues they've lost to burn out. That's social workers, in a bureaucratic office. What about emergency room nurses, during routine shifts, the same thing.

And you persecute police officers because they failed to perform to your nice air-conditioned living room standards? Sure, they wear the uniform but it doesn't make them infalliable or superhuman.

I commend the ones that stayed, I believe they should hold a senority over all others that currently serve on the force. If one that left comes up against one that stayed for promotion, I believe the ones that stayed should succeed in most cases. I think they should be honored for their duty. But I do not believe the ones that left should be made to feel less than or insignificant. Instead, I believe they too should be commended for returning to service after enduring such traumatic life changing situations.

Well said...I just hope that the higher up's in the departments share your feelings and honor and reward those officers who stayed.
I hope for all the officers sakes that they don't get brushed aside as too often happens (I experienced it firsthand seeing it in our department.)

mucgwyrt
September 6th, 2005, 08:02 AM
Police or not, these guys have families they need to look after; if they've quit because they're more concerned with getting their families to safety, then cookies to them. The National Guard should have been there (um, you know, guarding the nation?), not off in Iraq.

I disagree that "the time has come to stop pointing fingers and help". Yes, do help, but fingers need to be pointed if this is to be avoided in the future, you know? Bush can't keep making these c*ckups and getting away scott free. People have died and are continuing to die because of his mistakes, and that's just not on.

Gracecat
September 6th, 2005, 08:17 AM
I don't think Bush had much to do with the break down in chaos, not by himself. This was FEMA's puppy, the President should trust his various appointees to key positions are able to handle their job. Bush has done his share, certainly but it's reasonable to understand that anybody in the presidential seat could know next to nothing about emergency situations. (Granted 9-11 should have given him some sort of experience)

There's a photo floating around, hundreds of New Orleans school buses are submerged. Do you know the fifth step in the South Louisiana Hurricane evacuation plan gives the city the right to use all public transportation to further process the mandatory evacuation.

The Mayor screwed up too. The Governor may have had some errors, FEMA dropped the ball... So why put it all on one man and give those that had the immediate responsibility a pass at accepting the consequences of their inaction?

paygun
September 6th, 2005, 08:17 AM
You don't get superhero powers when they issue your badge. These cops are human, and who can blame them for quitting. You can't expect them to go for days on end with no relief in a hopeless situation without it having some consequences.

If anything it just further illustrates that we're not prepared for a disaster like this.

mucgwyrt
September 6th, 2005, 08:22 AM
I don't think Bush had much to do with the break down in chaos, not by himself. This was FEMA's puppy, the President should trust his various appointees to key positions are able to handle their job. Bush has done his share, certainly but it's reasonable to understand that anybody in the presidential seat could know next to nothing about emergency situations. (Granted 9-11 should have given him some sort of experience)

There's a photo floating around, hundreds of New Orleans school buses are submerged. Do you know the fifth step in the South Louisiana Hurricane evacuation plan gives the city the right to use all public transportation to further process the mandatory evacuation.

The Mayor screwed up too. The Governor may have had some errors, FEMA dropped the ball... So why put it all on one man and give those that had the immediate responsibility a pass at accepting the consequences of their inaction?
I was referring to the national guard being abroad, but at the end of the day Bush is the boss of those guys, and could have put his foot down had he really wanted to.

Gracecat
September 6th, 2005, 08:26 AM
I really don't think it's that easy. The President is a very powerful, very influential man and maybe this is an ideal that doesn't exist but I'd like to believe it still does. Our government has checks and balances, there's due process and chain of command. There are some things that any president wants to do but he can't, he's held by laws too.

I'm not saying Bush is a great president, he's in fact the opposite, but neither do I believe he has this infinite amount of power that everybody bestows him with.

mucgwyrt
September 6th, 2005, 08:38 AM
I really don't think it's that easy. The President is a very powerful, very influential man and maybe this is an ideal that doesn't exist but I'd like to believe it still does. Our government has checks and balances, there's due process and chain of command. There are some things that any president wants to do but he can't, he's held by laws too.

I'm not saying Bush is a great president, he's in fact the opposite, but neither do I believe he has this infinite amount of power that everybody bestows him with.
sssssoooo... Bush can't say "hey, where are the buses to get dying people out of N.O.?", he has to sit around whilst everyone else twiddles their thumbs and wait for them to take action...? :wtf:

I just find it unbelievable that when a tsunami hit South-East Asia the response was immediate, even from the U.S., but when a similar disaster happened in N.O. it took almost a week for aid to filter in and the people to be helped out of the city :whatgives I find it hard to believe more couldn't have been done.

But anyway, I'm getting off topic (and I'm aware I'm a bit cranky today - sorry :hugz: )... but the stories we've been hearing here have been absolutely horrendous, you know? :( its just totally shocking.

Isil Darkmoon
September 6th, 2005, 08:42 AM
it took almost a week for aid to filter in and the people to be helped out of the city :whatgives I find it hard to believe more couldn't have been done.

He was urgently busy, you know, with his vacation, and he already had commitments for photo ops of him playing guitar and eating cake. The man's working himself to the bone, already has trouble fitting everything in, and you want him to mess up his schedule just to deal with some teensy hurricane? You're unbelievably unreasonable. :shaker:

mucgwyrt
September 6th, 2005, 08:43 AM
He was urgently busy, you know, with his vacation, and he already had commitments for photo ops of him playing guitar and eating cake. The man's working himself to the bone, already has trouble fitting everything in, and you want him to mess up his schedule just to deal with some teensy hurricane? You're unbelievably unreasonable. :shaker:
:rotfl: that totally cracked me up... _cookie_

VelvetBlade
September 6th, 2005, 09:06 AM
This was inappropriate. What natural disaster have you lived through Hurricane Hugo? Andrew? Midwest floods of the 90's? Northridge Earthquake?

What basis for comparison do you have to determine that these people are cowards?

Are you aware of the many NYPD and NYFD who committed suicide in the wake of 9/11? In the 5, 10 and 15 days after the attack? There were more than the media let on.

Please try and temper your remarks with some sympathy.
You may think it inappropriate..I consider it true. This is their JOB...and they've got no right to desert these people. You have issues with what's going on..so be it....you do your job and you get whatever help you need after it's done. Think of the thousands of troops and what they're faced with every single day. Do they tuck tail and run when the going gets tough? No.. they do their job and deal with the rest later.

And those from Sept 11th who committed suicide, as you stated...did so after the initial response was over. These guys jumped ship from day 1.

And you're right...I've never been through a disaster of this magnitude. But I know others who have...who have been in rescue and law enforcement and they did their jobs as they are sworn to do. If these police thought they'd spend their careers writing tickets, then they should never have joined the force.

~VB

mucgwyrt
September 6th, 2005, 09:27 AM
You may think it inappropriate..I consider it true. This is their JOB...and they've got no right to desert these people. You have issues with what's going on..so be it....you do your job and you get whatever help you need after it's done. Think of the thousands of troops and what they're faced with every single day. Do they tuck tail and run when the going gets tough? No.. they do their job and deal with the rest later.

And those from Sept 11th who committed suicide, as you stated...did so after the initial response was over. These guys jumped ship from day 1.

And you're right...I've never been through a disaster of this magnitude. But I know others who have...who have been in rescue and law enforcement and they did their jobs as they are sworn to do. If these police thought they'd spend their careers writing tickets, then they should never have joined the force.

~VB
But a lot of the "police" left to deal with it were part-time voluntary police, who had a regular day jobs, you know? It wasn't their job, they were just left to deal with the mess :(

(at least, thats what it said in The Times)

VelvetBlade
September 6th, 2005, 09:40 AM
But a lot of the "police" left to deal with it were part-time voluntary police, who had a regular day jobs, you know? It wasn't their job, they were just left to deal with the mess :(

(at least, thats what it said in The Times)

No one can change what happened. What's important is to put systems in place so that in the future the police aren't made to go it alone. This was a disaster waiting to happen and shame on the state/local governments and the feds for not taking precautionary measure long ago.

~VB

mucgwyrt
September 6th, 2005, 09:42 AM
No one can change what happened. What's important is to put systems in place so that in the future the police aren't made to go it alone. This was a disaster waiting to happen and shame on the state/local governments and the feds for not taking precautionary measure long ago.

~VB
:uhhuhuh:

Lewen
September 6th, 2005, 09:54 AM
I don't think Bush had much to do with the break down in chaos, not by himself. This was FEMA's puppy, the President should trust his various appointees to key positions are able to handle their job. Bush has done his share, certainly but it's reasonable to understand that anybody in the presidential seat could know next to nothing about emergency situations. (Granted 9-11 should have given him some sort of experience)

There's a photo floating around, hundreds of New Orleans school buses are submerged. Do you know the fifth step in the South Louisiana Hurricane evacuation plan gives the city the right to use all public transportation to further process the mandatory evacuation.

The Mayor screwed up too. The Governor may have had some errors, FEMA dropped the ball... So why put it all on one man and give those that had the immediate responsibility a pass at accepting the consequences of their inaction?

Exactly. Well said. I often wondered why those school buses were ruined when they could have been used in helping with the evacuation process. Well said.

Phoenix Snowrose
September 6th, 2005, 10:01 AM
*shakes head* All I have to say is....wow. I can't even imagine how many cases of post-traumatic stress disorder there are down there.

wolf
September 6th, 2005, 12:38 PM
*shakes head* All I have to say is....wow. I can't even imagine how many cases of post-traumatic stress disorder there are down there.

We won't know for six months to a year or more ... but what's done for folks now will have impact down the line.

(for info on mitigating PTSD symptoms, check International Critical Incident Stress Foundation (http://www.icisf.org).)

CzechWoods
September 6th, 2005, 01:26 PM
I don't think Bush had much to do with the break down in chaos, not by himself. This was FEMA's puppy, the President should trust his various appointees to key positions are able to handle their job. Bush has done his share, certainly but it's reasonable to understand that anybody in the presidential seat could know next to nothing about emergency situations. (Granted 9-11 should have given him some sort of experience)

There's a photo floating around, hundreds of New Orleans school buses are submerged. Do you know the fifth step in the South Louisiana Hurricane evacuation plan gives the city the right to use all public transportation to further process the mandatory evacuation.

The Mayor screwed up too. The Governor may have had some errors, FEMA dropped the ball... So why put it all on one man and give those that had the immediate responsibility a pass at accepting the consequences of their inaction?


it is only partly true that Pres. Bush is not fault in the many sufferings and deaths in the aftermath of the hurricane, as he turned down the immediate help offers from all over the world during the first three days, and only from the fourth day on started to reluctantly accept help from allies of the USA - he hasnt accepted all help offers yet which is a political reason mainly (i am thinking also of the cuba offer, where 11 thousand doctors are waiting with packed bags to go and help,) to name just those

Jenne
September 6th, 2005, 07:28 PM
I think a bit of understanding for those left standing in any crisis when things are going downhill fast needs to be had here. But that aside, let's at least lift up those left on the force and those losing their own jobs so that they can volunteer to help in the remaining few rescue missions left this week in our prayers and meditations.

BeachWitch
September 7th, 2005, 01:33 AM
And you're right...I've never been through a disaster of this magnitude. But I know others who have...who have been in rescue and law enforcement and they did their jobs as they are sworn to do.

Sweetie, been there, done that. Until you can walk the walk, get up off the arm chair.

Me? Let's see.... Hugo, Andrew, 2 plane crashes (no survivors), Northridge Earthquake.
I still have nightmares to this day and I was trained by the US Government, not a local Police Academy.

VelvetBlade
September 7th, 2005, 07:06 AM
Sweetie, been there, done that. Until you can walk the walk, get up off the arm chair.

Me? Let's see.... Hugo, Andrew, 2 plane crashes (no survivors), Northridge Earthquake.
I still have nightmares to this day and I was trained by the US Government, not a local Police Academy.

That's good....so anyway, as I said.....No one can change what happened. What's important is to put systems in place so that in the future the police aren't made to go it alone. This was a disaster waiting to happen and shame on the state/local governments and the feds for not taking precautionary measure long ago.

~VB

AmericanMe
September 7th, 2005, 08:24 AM
Again, NO has one of the worst police departments in the nation. Let's not forget about the ones that were techincally on the job but still contributing to the mayhem:
http://www.gridcafe.com/vid/NOPD_Looters_Katrina.wmv (http://www.gridcafe.com/vid/NOPD_Looters_Katrina.wmv)

Gracecat
September 7th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Gee, I guess we should shoot all the cops then too while the National Guard is down there.

Sometimes, I really do wish a few of ya'll were stuck in the middle of the worst. Either we wouldn't have to worry about whether or not you have a lack of compassion or you'd come out of it with a lesson well learned.

mol
September 7th, 2005, 11:20 AM
ADMIN MODE

Do I even have to say anything?

CzechWoods
September 7th, 2005, 11:58 AM
:say: :hailmol:

ah no wait you are mol

then say

http://bestsmileys.com/signs14/1.gif