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Spera
September 8th, 2005, 05:09 PM
http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_18337.shtml (http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_18337.shtml)

In this whole tragedy I've never wanted to blame anyone specifically. Mnay stupid things were happening all across the board in this mess. But I do dmn well want to blame buerocracy. This is disgusting and rediculous.

Shanti
September 8th, 2005, 05:22 PM
I am not shocked, not anymore. From day one I have been angry and discusted. Heck here on MW I had been going off.
The buerocracy is a joke and disgrace. People died because of red tape!!! Bull peanuts!!

WynterWynd
September 8th, 2005, 05:33 PM
http://photobucket.com/albums/v228/VroomBroom/Smilies/th_doh.gifOMG, that is just awful!
What a heinious way for our own to be treated!:meanhead:

Morr
September 8th, 2005, 05:55 PM
SuperMod Mode

Please refer to our Copyright Policy (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?postid=130184&postcount=1), cut back on the article and leave the link.

PropheticMonkey
September 8th, 2005, 05:58 PM
....in Chinese culture, a major natural disaster signified the end of a major regime. The "Balance of the Heavens" was upset and massive changes took place. On heaven, then earth, then the effects trickled down to the people.

What could have been bad is now worse. What could have been challenging is now terribly difficult. Who are we to blame for this? Certainly not the abortion clinics and gays that the "authorities of God" point their fingers at. Mother nature can't be blamed either, for although she can be moody and dangerous, she does not cause suffering through something so sublte and evil as greed. Corruption. Excessive indulgence by those who have "power" over those who do not. THAT is who to blame

As Hurricane Katrina unfolds, more and more cases of red tape and government mishandling are being found out. What could have been just a natural disaster has turned into a nothing less than a nightmare. This is not a "worse case scenario" or a "terrible disaster"...it is a nightmare. Make no mistake.

Changes will come. Swiftly by the hands of Anu himself or slowly by the hands of us humans it matters not. The era of prosperity of the 1900's is over! America's days of glory and prosperity are over! It is a new melenium and we must adapt! We must change! From outside or in through force or peace there will be change. There MUST be change. Can the lives of millions be directed by morrally dead politicians? Can we be that blind as to not see what they are doing to our land and our nation and our humanity????? Slowly people are beginning to realize that sitting back and riding it out does not work anymore! People are beginning to realize that it is they who must decide! HOW will they change things for the better? HOW will they make this world a better place for our children and our children's children? That is up to us as a people to decide...until then we can only wait and endure....

...voting isnt helping us anymore...what else can we do?

Spera
September 8th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Eeps! Sorry about that....

Isil Darkmoon
September 8th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Yes, this is horrible, and the bus commandeering was true.

However, I've also run across similar articles on the same event from "the other side"--a day or two later, all the remaining refugees in the hotel, some 700 I believe, were escorted from the hotel, by military (many of which helped these folks move their baggage, etc) and given first priority on a set of busses headed to Texas, slipped in in front of superdome refugees who'd been queued up for hours waiting for busses, including the elderly, extremely ill, and children.

It was basically reimbursement for the commandeered chartered busses, so I can't bring myself to say it was unfair. But there's been just as much bad press for "putting healthy, rich people ahead of ill ones living in a hazard zone" as there has been "they took our busses and royally [censored] us over.

This piece IS a *biased* personal account. So are some from 'the other side'.

Guess all I'm trying to say is, really, there are at LEAST two sides to every story-usually three or four or more--and the actual truth usually lies in the middle, partially obscured by emotion and misunderstanding and incomplete information. _inabox_

Spera
September 8th, 2005, 10:09 PM
Did you really totally not get the point of that article?

This isn't about soem people who got their busses commandeared. This is a bout a beurocracy that deliberately split up a group of people that were helping each other survive. They took a helicopter and nocted down the sturctures they had built- after they had already lost their first homes. My objection has nothing to do with class or race, but bleeding humanity. It's disgusting, it's trapping people in squalor. Did you evenr ead the whole article, or did you decide what it was going to be about after reading the first paragraph?

Danustouch
September 8th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Watching a CNN special report on Charity Hospital tonight.. the same thing happened there. Charity Hospital serves the poor, those without insurance. Those who are terminally ill, and do not have the money to be treated at a finer hospital. It is a "last resort" hospital. It happens to be right next to, and shares a helipad with Tulane University Hospital. Charity Hospital, during the first three days, tried VALIENTLY to save their patients. But, bodies began to pile up, despite their best, and most valient attempts. They wound up stacking them in a stairwell, because their morgue was flooded out. It came to a point, when after they had tried calling EVERYONE to come and evacuate their patients, they organized a movement to get through to the press. Hoping the press could help them get their people evacuated. THESE were the nurses, and doctors you heard calling into CNN, CRYING and BEGGING and PLEADING. Their own nurses, and doctors, becoming ill from treating their patients in such conditions, working non stop, around the clock, with no clean water, no electricity, no nutrition. Finally, it seemed their cries were heard. The guard sent two helicopters, to help evacuate their patients. So, they wheeled (and dragged) a lot of the most critical patients, on gurneys, all the way up the stairs, onto the floor of the helipad. When they got there, the Tulane Hospital had already brought their patients up there. Had already commondeered those helicopters. THEY weren't the ones who got through to the press, either. This is all documented. THEY were not the ones who had gotten though to CNN, and NBC. Charity was. And yet, as charity waited, and cried, and prayed on that helipad, three of THEIR patients died, before finally, the next DAY being evacuated.

HeavensHope
September 8th, 2005, 11:05 PM
*shake head* it's a damn shame.

narleymarley03
September 8th, 2005, 11:15 PM
Is this America?

lynn271
September 9th, 2005, 12:15 AM
Is this America?

Yes.

Isil Darkmoon
September 9th, 2005, 12:31 AM
Did you really totally not get the point of that article?

This isn't about soem people who got their busses commandeared. This is a bout a beurocracy that deliberately split up a group of people that were helping each other survive. They took a helicopter and nocted down the sturctures they had built- after they had already lost their first homes. My objection has nothing to do with class or race, but bleeding humanity. It's disgusting, it's trapping people in squalor. Did you evenr ead the whole article, or did you decide what it was going to be about after reading the first paragraph?

Yes, in fact I did read it completely--in fact I've been following Katrina very closely.

My point is that this *is* a personal account, NOT a news article. Not even an "outside" eyewitness account--it's a personal retelling.

I know for a fact that some of these events and exchanges definately happened. However a lot of the fringing details just don't sound quite correct to me, and some of them I know to be completely false.

Now, I'm not saying this article is completely spun from spidersilk and moonbeams, by any means. But we've GOT to recall that:.

People remember things incorrectly. People have selective memories. People don't all hold up well under stress. People exaggerate. People skew stories with their own axes to grind. People don't remember things as well when deprived of nutrition or water. People view events through their own internal filters. People tell white lies that are the better option in context. And sometimes people just do lie.

I'm aware of people--volunteers, evacuees, and Houston residents--who would *swear* up and down that they witnessed, or know someone who witnessed firsthand, a half a dozen rapes committed by evacuees in "Reliant City" Houston and the surrounding area. Others say they know of at least that many cases of shootings or stabbings (nonfatal) in the same setting--or riots, or bands of vandals smashing storefronts and cars. And the people relaying these things GENUINELY believe them themselves--they'd swear on a stack of bibles they're telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

But if you look at the police reports, look at the local media, look to the city--not a damn one of these things happened.

There were two reported sexual assult reported--one has already been found to be untrue while the second is still being investigated. "Possibly one" sure isn't six. There are no records of any knife or gun wound incidents related to Reliant City at all--just a few fistfights and squabbles. No bands of malicious thugs rabble-rousing, either. Just a lot of confused, weary, nervous people congregating in small knots or large groups, inside the complex or out in Houston proper.

I mentioned the busses because they're enough of a common detail to both of these stories that it can be easily discussed.. But when I listen to someone from the media vs a Superdome evacuee vs one of the hotel-bound folk that chartered teh busses, they don't even seem remotely like the same story. They're completely different retellings of events by different individuals who all believe they're 100% accurate about it, but none of the details line up at all.

I just wonder what I'd hear if I could be a fly on the wall six months from now, listening to one of the involved athourity figures relate their own version of the events in this piece to a trusted friend, over a pint of beer, in a smokey, shadowed, comfortable corner of a favorite pub.

Those overheard comments have the possibility to be just as--or even more--correct than the original ariticle. Or they could be extremely sympathetically biased towards the law enforcement agents involved, or slanted negatively in regards the civillians they had to deal with, and it could be that none of the specific details of conversation, setting, attitude, or *anything* match up with the details in this article.

Just because something's been printed, or something's been heard, in no way guarantees it's an accurate, reliable, objective representation of the actual events that occoured.

In fact, it likely isn't.

There were issues with the busses. There were issues with supplies. There were confrontations with law enforcement of various kinds. They weren't allowed to leave the city on foot. They all eventually got out, the majority on a different set of busses, and some in various ways in smaller groups.

We know those things. And they're ALL we'll probably ever know for sure.

Jenne
September 9th, 2005, 12:46 AM
Your word of caution is practical, ID, but the fact of the matter is this: even if a TENTH of this is true (and we have all heard the addage that that's precisely what's in a rumor--a 10th of truth--or something like that), then the governmennt entities that were to blame for the things done against these people should be held accountable, hanging their heads in shame.

This is despicable, deplorable, and unbelievable. We ARE better than this...and in one of our worst hours, we come out like a mangy dog. Not the shining example of community and humanity that our gov't is forever preaching. What shows who America IS in the end is not our red-tape bearing, complicated to the point of ineptitude, finger-pointing scoundrels that are our gov't leaders--nope! It's that bit at the end of that tragic story--the PEOPLE. Who feel and hurt and bleed for each other, giving strangers their shoes and handing tampons through a barbed wire fence.

BeachWitch
September 9th, 2005, 01:57 AM
I swear to Godde, this story is so much like the things that happened in Sumpter after Hugo, it's shocking. I keep wondering if I've time warped back to 1989 and it's not W but H.W. in charge.

And the funny thing is, there is always someone who has to stand up and say it's all blown out of proportion. The civilians were never ordered off the Air Force base after Hugo in 1989, the rations were never confiscated from the town of Sumpter in 1989, it was all incorrectly related tot he media - blown out of proportion. I imagined all of that, just like the guys who wrote the article "remembered things incorrectly."

BeachWitch
September 9th, 2005, 09:45 AM
So much for Fair Use restrictions.... the article has been removed. The truth is NOT out there.