British vicar bans Yoga Classes in Church Hall - a personal opinion!

[Kiya]

22 November 2001

This morning on the news I heard about a Yoga teacher who had been banned from hiring the local Church Hall to give classes in.

The TV presenter interviewed both the teacher, and the Rector at the Church. The teacher couldn’t understand why she was being banned for encouraging meditation and Yoga – after all, everyone knows they are good for people!

The Rector explained that he really didn’t want anyone contemplating an Eastern Spirituality on Church premises.

Initially I was appalled. How dare this Rector ban this poor woman for wanting to teach Yoga!

But as I was meditating in the shower this morning, I had a thought – that Church Hall is probably used by the Sunday School, Prayer Meetings, even Bible Study. It’s a place that (mostly) Christians use. Call it part of their sacred space – maybe not as sacred as the Church itself, but still important.

OK, where is my sacred space? Pretty much the whole of my house and garden. And what if a local vicar asked if he could hire my spare room to have a prayer meeting in?

So, I don’t think there is an issue here. I wouldn’t let a vicar hold a prayer meeting or bible study in my spare room – frankly, seeing as I’m solitary, I wouldn’t be keen on ANYONE practicing their religion in my spare room.

So my initial righteous indignation was just a stereotypical thought habit – bad old Christian persecuting poor spiritual woman – and, in my opinion, completely wrong. I think that Rector was right to say no thankyou to the Yoga, if that was what he BELIEVED to be the right thing to do.

Made me think, anyway.

[Xander67]

well now I have a few issues with this,

ok, I agree with what you said about sacred space and all that
but on what grounds did this church refuse to let the yoga classes be taught???

was it,

A>
"your religion is evil and you are going to buirn in hell unless you are saved"

or
B>

we respect your right to believe as you wish, and we shall believe as we wish, (but what they are really saying is) we are afraid that the yoga exercises will actually enlighten some people and then they will no longer need us and consequently our weekly offeratory revenues will drop...


but I wish it could be (as in I hope the answer is)....

C> we accept your faith as a reflection of your culture, we believe everyone should be open minded to new experiences, although we choose our faith as the one that we can identify with, you are more than welcome to use our building, you can even give us a demonstration so that we can learn about other religions and thier practices...

[Myst]

Kiya I agree wholeheartedly.

Xander your response is the typical "I don't know so I'll assume because those Christians are evil, they judge us and they're bad" type of response that makes Pagans look bad. You don't know why he said that, and you haven't bothered to wait to find out, you just assume - just as any fundie would assume we roast cats. It's no better then that at all. Assuming all Christians are like that is no better then assuming all people who wear pentacles worship Satan. If we ever expect not to be prejudiced against I would hope we can at least stop being prejudiced too.

This gentleman had every right to refuse the classes being held there, being as he's partially responsible for the happenings in church. It's exactly like not allowing him do a service in your garden - it's YOUR garden and YOUR sacred space, and if you feel uncomfortable with it being held there for any reason it won't be held there - you don't need to justify it.

JMHO.

[Xander67]

Myst, PLEASE READ my post again,

I was asking WHY the church refused the yoga classes and then asking if it was one of the folowing answers...

you put words in my mouth, I know of alot of churches that encourage fellowship with other faiths...

if I mislead anyone I appologise!

[Myst]

Originally posted by Xander67
but I wish it could be

C> we accept your faith as a reflection of your culture, we believe everyone should be open minded to new experiences, although we choose our faith as the one that we can identify with, you are more than welcome to use our building, you can even give us a demonstration so that we can learn about other religions and thier practices...

Maybe, but that wording to me does not indicate "I hope it is that" or "it could be that" but instead "I wish it could be" - which implies it's not or probably cannot be. See if you said "it could be" then that's like saying it's possible. By saying "I wish it could be" you're implying that it can't be and you wish it could be possible.
Not to mention


Originally posted by Xander67
(but what they are really saying is) we are afraid that the yoga exercises will actually enlighten some people and then they will no longer need us and consequently our weekly offeratory revenues will drop...

Implying that no matter what they say they really have ulterior motives and mean something entirely different - ie. they're liars? Not only that they're "afraid people will be enlightened"? Pardon? You know there are people who feel that religion is for them, they don't need to be englightened. Having once been Christian myself I'm insulted by that.

Sorry if that's a misinterpretation but that's what the wording makes it seem like.

[Xander67]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok I see now, I wil edit it LOL when i wrote it I was saying I wish it could be, as in I hope it was ....

ok i shall edit it, LOL

but then anyone who reads this thread will be confused LOL

but what the hey :)

[Myst]

Okie dokie dookie. I didn't think you were meaning to be like that. Now that that's clear, I'm looking forward to seeing what other people have to say too... :)

[Lavender]

The unfortunate thing is that yoga can be taught without out the meditation & the Eastern philosophies that are associated with it. It is a wonderful form of excercise - excellent for seniors or anyone with back problems. A lot of doctors around here have been recommending yoga as an alternative treatment.

There was a woman in the same class as I was. She was told by her pastor that if she did not drop out of the yoga class, she would go to hell. She dropped out.

Personally, I love my yoga and the meditation aspect of it as well. Good for the body & the soul.

Kiya, that is an excellent point about sacred space. I wouldn't lwant someone else to use my sacred space either- Christian or pagan.

[flar7]

a part of the church? ie, same building.

Do they rent it out regularly(sp?) to others?

Do the ask others what their religious orientations are?
If they dont ask the others and they rent it out publicly
then it should be considered discrimination.

What other types of events are held there, other than church?

all these things make a difference. If it is only used for christian purposes, festivals, events, and get togethers, then OK.

I mean, you could even have a protestant church not let a bunch of lutherans use their building for a soup kitchen. Cause them Lutherans is different.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Wildchild
Kiya, that is an excellent point about sacred space. I wouldn't lwant someone else to use my sacred space either- Christian or pagan.

I agree. I would allow my farmland to be used for Pagan gatherings but not necessarily Christian - and not because it's discrimination either, because the land is my responsibility and part of my home/life and therefore if I don't want someone doing something I'd find uncomfortable on it then I don't, period. JMHO

[gunner]

i think the crux of the question here is that, in the end the church hall is the property of the anglican church of england (i think over here we call them "episcopalians") and they can do, or not, what they wish with the building. while i disagree with the vicar he is responsible to the c. of e. and it's bishops and elders and must think what they will say about how the building(s) are used.

as for the pastor of the woman in wildchild's yoga class, one day he may get an awful shock at his eventual destination but we'll leave that to whatever powers there be. while i do not practise yoga it is one of the most benign philosophies i know of. as for meditation, i find that meditating on my sword does have a calming effect when i need it and i hear others say that meditating in their own way does the same for them so where is the "evil" in that?

[michellef]

When I started reading the post I was unhappy that something like this could happen, BUT, having read the rest of it, I agree with you Kiya. Sacred space is just that, and I wouldn't feel at all happy about someone practising another religion in it. But at the same time, as Wildchild said, yoga can be taught without religious overtones.

BB
Michelle

[talamh]

i agree with flair's point - if they rent it to other people for non-Christian purposes and refuse to rent it to a yoga class then it is discrimination based on spiritual belief.

My house is not a public space. i don't rent it to anyone. If the church hall is rented as public space, that is totally different. bb talamh