Generations - Pluto's dance

[RedRose]

Hi all,

I want to talk about these times and the hope I find in astrology ala Pluto. Pluto sends whole generations to earth and because Pluto's orbit is a big oval, some generations last longer than others and they all have their owm personalities and agendas/purposes. For instance. both my parents AND my grandparents were part of the Pluto in Cancer generation. It lasted from 1912-1939. They are a patriotic, Mom and apple pie, they like to be coddled, they can go into denial easily, and their drug is booze.

The WW2 babies, the Baby Boomers, are the Pluto in Leo generation and we are a dramatic generation. Lots of egotists and also lots of heart awakened powerful and good lion hearted folks. Boomers have brought the spot light to what the Cancer generation was hiding in the cultural closet and have instituted many new healing breakthroughs. But those Pluto in Leo egotists in powerful positions are a real bummer.

Now after the Boomers, the generations have come faster.

The Pluto in Virgo generation are those born between 1956-1972.

Pluto in Libra generation, 1973ish-1984.

Pluto in Scorpio, 1983-1995

Pluto in Sag - babies now or not yet born

So my parents and grandparents were of the same generation and my children are of two different generations, astrologically speaking.

Please share about what you notice about your generation. Here is an interesting website to help:

http://www.adze.com/zine/genplut.html (http://www.adze.com/zine/genplut.html)

RedRose

[KEishin]

Hmm, well I'm a Pluto in Libra gal and I've found it to give a love and desire for all things in the creative arts. Just look at the huge explosion of interest in music and movies via the internet (especially once Uranus moved into Aquarius in the mid 1990's).

Then also we also all tend to get up in arms about society and it's ills, but rather than take our parents tack of public protests (very Leo) it seems most of his generation like to work from within so as to not upset the balance needlessly (very Libra). I think there will be a need to also balance the economical and political power of many a nation - maybe the military might will be balanced by equal funds for the arts and education?

And the last thing I predict would be the dissolution of the stangant views of relationships based solely on the strictures of religion - i.e all marriages must be between only two people of two different genders. No, you can have a three person family, two guys or two girls - or many other different combinations. As long as it works, what should your neighbors care?

[Valkie]

Pluto in Libra also.

One of the strong things that I've noticed is that art isn't just the visually soothing. It's taken on a very Plutonian air to it. Very sexual and dark. Though most of the artist that first come to mind are part of the Pluto Virgo/Pluto Leo generation, their art first began to gain wider acceptence during the mid-late 70s.

Another thing that I've noticed is that the Libra Pluto generation has taken a whole new very towards relationships than the generations before. Before the 70s, divorce was rare, men were the "head" of the household even though we were far past the feminist movement, and the gender lines/roles were clear. Things have been fuzzy since then. There are no longer any definate roles in relationships of who takes care of what, everything is a trade.

With the current Pluto transits, none of the Libra Pluto generation has come into the square yet. I don't think that those lines that we blurred will start to get some real definition back to them until that. No, I don't think the roles will ever go back to the way that they were, but it's more of a situation where instead of it being "this could be my job, or it could be your job... it doesn't matter what the gender association is with it" it would become "this is my job, and this is your job, dispite what the gender association is"

[RedRose]

Hi KEishin and Valkie,

I think what you are saying about the Pluto in Libra generation is all very true and fascinating. Are you both from the Pluto in Libra generation, Neptune in Sag. sub-generation?

I am from the Neptune in Libra sub-generation of the Pluto in Leo generation. This gets me to thinking about how long term learning and earth changes can flow down through the generations.

My Neptune in Libra 1942-1956 generation only dreamt about what you guys are manifesting. It was our ideal. Likewise what the Pluto in Libra, Neptune in Sag. generation is dreaming up will manifest in the young kids of today, the Pluto in Sag generation.

And it is the Pluto in Virgo, Neptune in Scorpio generation that has a strong connection with the Pltuo in Scorpio, Neptune in Capricorn teens of today. I think we all should reach out to this very small but extremely powerful generation, Pluto in Scorpio packs a pow. Anyone here born between 1984 and 1995?

RedRose

Neptune in Scorpio 1956-1970

Neptune in Sag. 1970 to 1984

Neptune in Capricorn 1984 through 1998

[Agaliha]

I'm Pluto in Scorpio (1985)....
I read something that said we're all overly obsessed with sex :huh:

Anyone have any better info that that?

[RedRose]

Hi Belle Terre,

You tell me. Do you think your generation is more obsessed with sex than other teens down through the eras? Death? Dark? Power? Evil?

Yes, all those things are the downside of Scorpio and Pluto. I'm not talking about the sex part, rather I mean the "obsessed" part, you understand.

You belong to a small generation, a small band of warriors. Warriors for love or for fear. Pluto loves Scorpio, so those who can use power well and for the good, will have various Scorpio super powers (psychic gifts) and pull off the amazing upside of Scorpio - the Wizard archtype in essence. There are many indigo children, and other sorts of kids who are not "neuro-typical" in the Pluto in Scorpio generation - ETs among us?

RedRose

[Kadynas]

RedRose you always bring out such good topics! _wiz_
I'm Pluto in Libra, with Neptune in Sag and Uranus in Scorpio...

As an artist I can definitely relate to Valkie's comments about art... I'm a painter and collage artist, and I know my own work has an emotionally raw element. It's not about making something pretty, it's my way of dealing with my "stuff", one of the few areas I feel I can really expose my soul safely. The music of my generation seems much the same... edgy, angsty and yeah in some cases even "whiny". LOL And after you scream right along with it, you feel a little better. At least I do... :lol:

As far as relationships go, I won't settle for any less than a partnership of equals. No little woman here. But like the others have said, so called "traditional" partnerships are really losing their appeal. I know many of us are finding that we have multiple soul mates out there and struggling with the implications that that represents... I personally have no problem with any form of relationship between consenting adults: gay marriage, polyamory, etc. I'm all for the "do what you want and let others do the same".

That carries over to the political arena as well... I think a lot of us have strong views about things, particularly when it comes to social issues and personal liberties, but in politics that "live and let live" attitude that makes us a generally tolerant bunch often stops us from making our voice heard. We're so detestful of people that push their views on others that we don't want to try to do the same; end result is that we often find ourselves living under the rules of those who want to enforce their beliefs on everyone else. :lol: Oh irony...

I definitely feel a strong connection to Neptune in Sagittarius as well... RedRose and some others will remember my stellium there with Vesta and Pallas. :) I definitely feel a real urge to know why I'm here and what I'm supposed to do with my life. I want it to be meaningful, I want to understand the lessons that my soul has set up for me. To that end I've been delving into esoteric astrology lately and found myself fascinated with it. :) I also feel that paganism and alternative religions in general are flourishing in our generation... many people are starting to realize that there's one than just one path to the Divine or enlightenment or what have you. It's a wonderful thing. :)

As for Uranus in Scorpio, I think that's another area which pushes our generation to spread its mystical wings as it were. But it also makes for some pretty unusual sexual/romantic situations, especially for those of us who have it in the 5th house! :lol: It definitely gives me bursts of creativity and the textbook definition about "intuitive flashes" fits to a T. I think I feel it more strongly than most since mine's in a T-Square though...

[RedRose]

There you are Kadynas! So glad to see you again. Was wondering if you were still posting here.

You know it is hard for me to relate to, or even remember, how darn unequal the sex roles were when I was a child (late 50s early 60s). They had two different "wants ads" in the newspapers, jobs for men and jobs for women. Nurse, teacher, waitress were your choices back then. Marriage and motherhood were every girl's prime directive and they called us "girls" until menopause. Don't bother to even mention it to yourself if you happen to be gay.

At the beginning of the 60s Rebellion women were called "birds" in the UK and "chicks" in the USA. This all spawned the Feminist Movement of the early 70s. I remember I was in my late teens and early twenties and pushing for equal rights but also wishing to be in a relationship with a man. Of course the vast majprity of men were not yet feminist in the least, and they were not happy in the least to have "their" women being do cocky, so to speak. With Neptune in Libra, the longing and dream of equal relationships was there but the reality wasn't yet. It was hard and heartbreaking and many of us didn't pull off anything like equal relationship until mid-life or later, probably much helped by the Pluto in Libra power of our kids.

RedRose

[RedRose]

The Pluto in Scorpio generation are presently age 10-20 and again I believe that all of us should be paying a lot of attention to them. Scorpios are extra powerful at the 2nd and 6th chakras but unless they open their hearts they will not be perking on all levels. Scorpios who can't open their hearts are distorted and can be dangerous, to themsleves at least. Those who can open their hearts are meta-powerful. They need initiating. They need to be told they have a big purpose and they need to be held to the highest ethical standards - they love being tested and fight back when they are ignored. They are secretive and you have to go after them but they are worth it. The Harry Potter books were written for this generation.

Many Pluto in Scorpio kids have Pluto in Virgo, Neptune in Scorpio, parents. The Pluto in Virgo generation, often called Generation X, were too young to particpate much in the 60s Rebellion and they have lived so far in the shadow of the Boomers. Nobody talks about them but they too are a very important force for change....partly because they birthed the Pluto in Scorpio generation.

RedRose

[KEishin]

Yes, I'm of the Neptune in Sag subset, and like Kadynas, Uranus in Scorpio and the Neptune/asteroid stellium too! ;) We have almost identical charts, down to the houses - we were born about 15 days apart in almost the same location. Funny how we both ended up here! :D

It's interesting, because she and I are both artists - graphic designers as I recall. Like her, I my art is one of the places I can "escape," where no one is watching and caring what I do or say there. Unless of course I want to sell it. (That's my Taurus sun talking!) But even then, there seems to be a purging going on in my generation, where all the collective repressed emotions are having to come out, through art, music or other forms of expression. Libra is asking for balance so we're doing our best to provide that. Look at the all the 'alternative music' and how often it's full of teenage angst, while my parents (of the Pluto in Leo, Neptune in Libra gen.) had all the classic, romantic love songs.

And don't even TRY to tell me that I can't do something because I'm a woman. You better have a long head start and be wearing running shoes! :imout: If a guy can do it, then I can too - which is that balance thing again. Even if I don't WANT to, I like to know that I can if so choose. And it goes both ways; if a man wants to be the primary parent that's fine with me. Just as long as somebody takes care of the kids.

Your point is well made about Pluto in Scorpio folks - they are definitely on a different wavelength. My cousin's five children were all born with that and they have such a deep intensity to their playing even, that it's scary at times. Of course most of them were also born while Chiron was squaring Pluto which could really shake things up too!

[RedRose]

Wow, and you are both such excellent astrologers! Sharing transits with someone is so amazing. My nextdoor neighbor and I have the very same Taurus 22* Rising and all our houses are basically the same. She is very skilled at astrology and we rarely speak English to each other - rather we speak Astrolo-ease. We share how Mar going retrograde on our Ascendant FEELS. We both have 12th House Mars, but otherwise our planets and purposes are very different. Great way to learn depth astrology!

RedRose

[RedRose]

RE: Pluto in Libra Generation:

There is a joke about the Libra boss who puts two evil people and three energy-suckers on your team for the sake of balance.

I admit that I have worried, at times, that the Pluto in Libra generation have been exploring, through art at least, the false teaching that dark and light are equal and opposites and require balance.

Actually, shine light at darkness and darkness disspells. Shine dark at lightness and dark also disspells. There is ONLY light power, dark has no power or reality except being light that is somewhat "darker" or heavier. Matter is energy too, but not evil juist because it is dark and dense.

RedRose

[Agaliha]

Humm, thanks for all the info of the Pluto in Scorpios. Quite interesting :) :reading:

[RedRose]

Hey wait Belle Terre....did any of it resonate? What is your experience of the Pluto in Scorpio generation, can you give us the inside scoop?

By the way, to find how you personally connect into your generation's purpose, find your Pluto in your chart. Where is yours? What sign and house?

RedRose

[Kadynas]

RE: Pluto in Libra Generation:

There is a joke about the Libra boss who puts two evil people and three energy-suckers on your team for the sake of balance.

I admit that I have worried, at times, that the Pluto in Libra generation have been exploring, through art at least, the false teaching that dark and light are equal and opposites and require balance.

Actually, shine light at darkness and darkness disspells. Shine dark at lightness and dark also disspells. There is ONLY light power, dark has no power or reality except being light that is somewhat "darker" or heavier. Matter is energy too, but not evil juist because it is dark and dense.

RedRose
I do see a lot of that... Even on certain threads here, you'll see a lot of people calling others "fluffy bunnies" because they only want to focus on the "light" side of things. To me, I would consider that "balance" of light & dark to be more a psychological thing, like the concept of the "shadow": realizing that we have both light and dark sides to our nature and embracing both so that we can be more integrated and whole instead of "projecting" the bad stuff onto "everyone else". :lol:

[RedRose]

Hi Kadynas,

I believe that most/many people who are "all sunshine" and "sweetness and light" are actually filled with fear of their less than perfect aspects. They fear their bodies, their own passions. Thus they are as caught in false dualism as those who preach "Good is bad, bad is good, kill your cat for Satan."

Obviously rage/violence, greed, pride/egotism, heartless/mean lust, and emotional attachment/obsession can all cause lots of harm within and without. Getting dualistic about it all, doen't help, I do not believe. The Creator and Creation are ONE. There is no mind/body split.

Libras are smart and the Pluto in Libra generation is smart by nature too. Only truth can be balanced, because falsehood and lies are not real. Libras waffle, try this and that, but by the time your generation comes into prime political power (age 45-65) I think you will be awesomely aligned and widespread justice will result.

RedRose

[Agaliha]

Libras are smart...

Why thank you for the compliment ;)

This is all really interesting stuff!

[RedRose]

Hi Belle,

Interesting in what way?

RedRose

[RedRose]

Hi Kadynas and KEishin,

The three of us have Pluto in the 5th opposite Mercury in the 11th. You two have Pluto in Libra and Mercury in Aries, and I have Pluto in Leo, Mercury in Aquarius. Different generations but all three of us connect to our generational purpose in the same way. Can you share about your Pluto opposition Mercury and how Pluto in your chart hooks you into your generation?

RedRose

[Valkie]

Goodness, let me catch up on the conversation here! lol

Sag Neptune sub generation too. I get the same feeling that Kady was describing, here for a reason, just don't know what it is yet. I always have the feeling that there is something more that I should be doing... I'm sure that my Neptune being part of 2/3 Kites doesn't help much either.

On thing that I've noticed among friends who are/were in relationships: One theme that comes up a lot is that there seems to be issues of their partner not being willing to accept all aspects of their personalities... Meaning that they just want the light and can't deal with the dark. They are there for the other when things are good, but desert them when the dark side of their personality comes out for a while... maybe it's my Pisces Moon talking... actually, it probably is my Moon... but if I had a quarter for every person who has told me that their partner can't handle the dark side of them... and I'm not even talking criminal behavior... I'd be rich.

Most of the stuff isn't even something that would make or break a relationship, but it usually does due to one side not wanting to comprimise and the other not willing to accept that it is part of the other. Psychologically, there seems to be a great need in this generation for relationships to be all consuming... half way isn't good enough.

Like you said RR, there are a lot of people denying the dark side, when they see someone or something that reminds them of it, they get defensive and try to obliterate it. But it doesn't work that way, especially in a relationship! The person that is doing the reminding gets defensive because the other is trying to change them into something that they aren't... many times, they have already accepted the fact that they are different and aren't comfortable with someone trying to make them "normal".

[KEishin]

*waves to Valkie*

Well for me the Mercury/Pluto plays out in how I talk with others. I guard my privacy zealously - few folks know my email, fewer my IM and only a treasured handful get my phone number.

I don't like to talk about the deeper things in my life with those I don't know well or trust. With Mercury in the 11th, I like to have a lot of friends, but Uranus is tugging on Merc, asking me to be careful what I share. So I have many acquaintences, but few close friends. One of them has referred to it as 'running your defenses, like in a giant game of whak-a-mole, where I'm the mole.' :hehehehe:

But on the other hand, I do enjoy a juicy bit of gossip/information about OTHER people/things. It's okay for me to dig into others but not for others to reciprocate. Merc is accidentally exalted here, so most of that stuff takes places on a more mental than physical level for me.

[Valkie]

As for Uranus in Scorpio, I think that's another area which pushes our generation to spread its mystical wings as it were. But it also makes for some pretty unusual sexual/romantic situations, especially for those of us who have it in the 5th house! :lol: It definitely gives me bursts of creativity and the textbook definition about "intuitive flashes" fits to a T. I think I feel it more strongly than most since mine's in a T-Square though...

:lol: my gods, I just caught this one! Oh, the pain of having Uranus in the 5th! If hubby tells me one more time that I become friends with the weirdest people... I can't help it, I like oddballs! I get the creative flashes too... nothing for weeks-months and then I want to take on the world.... draw, sing, write, carve... it all hits me at the same time and I want to do it now, but that doesn't stop the obligations that I've got to the family.

One thing that I love about my Uranus: where it sits natally, the transiting Sun hits it exact on Halloween night... it makes the holiday much more enjoyable.

[Kadynas]

Hi Kadynas and KEishin,

The three of us have Pluto in the 5th opposite Mercury in the 11th. You two have Pluto in Libra and Mercury in Aries, and I have Pluto in Leo, Mercury in Aquarius. Different generations but all three of us connect to our generational purpose in the same way. Can you share about your Pluto opposition Mercury and how Pluto in your chart hooks you into your generation?

RedRose

Well my Mercury in this case happens to be retrograde... You'd never guess I was Aries on first meeting. (Actually ask Keishin: did I seem like an Aries? :lol: I don't think I said two words til she whipped out a chart!) I tend to be rather quiet at first, but my eyes and ears are always open... I like to take in my surroundings and get a general feel for the mood and atmosphere before I put my two cents worth in... And I'm forever running my lines in my head... :lol: I'm always thinking about what I should say, or worse, overanalyzing what I /should've/ said in a particular conversation. I also agree on the privacy issue... I can't stand thinking that someone is trying to pry into my secrets, even though I love knowing about theirs. But I won't spy on people like they seem to love to do to me. :lol: I hate when people try to read over my shoulder when I'm on the computer to see what I'm typing... if you want to know something ask me, and if I think you've proven yourself trustworthy enough to know the answer then I'll tell you. :) I find I've been burned many times by opening up too much too quickly and it's made me a tad cynical...

Even so I do still have Mercury in Aries, so if I do manage to bypass my "mental filter" and just blurt something out, I have about as much tact as a Merc in Sag! (no offense towards any Merc/Sags, of course! :lol: ) I always seem to say the wrong thing, or I pick the wrong words to say what I really mean.


my gods, I just caught this one! Oh, the pain of having Uranus in the 5th! If hubby tells me one more time that I become friends with the weirdest people... I can't help it, I like oddballs! I get the creative flashes too... nothing for weeks-months and then I want to take on the world.... draw, sing, write, carve... it all hits me at the same time and I want to do it now, but that doesn't stop the obligations that I've got to the family.
:lol: same here! Especially with the bursts of energy/creativity... :) And with Venus opposing I find that romantic dramas always seem to bring out my creative side.

[KEishin]

(Actually ask Keishin: did I seem like an Aries? I don't think I said two words til she whipped out a chart!)
Hehehe, yeah. I was wondering if you'd made up your birth data. "Are you sure you're not a Capricorn?" :lol:
But the instant we started talking astrology it was :chatty: .
Much to the chagrin of our tablemate who started counting holes in the ceiling tiles to keep herself awake.

Even so I do still have Mercury in Aries, so if I do manage to bypass my "mental filter" and just blurt something out, I have about as much tact as a Merc in Sag! (no offense towards any Merc/Sags, of course! ) I always seem to say the wrong thing, or I pick the wrong words to say what I really mean.
I know what you mean! I don't have it as bad as I used to, but I've worked hard to keep those comments on the inside and not coming out my mouth. I have a VERY strong sarcastic streak which most find amusing. But it's the one person who thinks I'm being rude that makes it hard. I'm not - I just live in a constant state of irony.

But take it from me - Merc direct in Aries isn't a bucket o'laughs either. It rules my Gemini AC . . . I don't even stop talking in my sleep! :lol:

[RedRose]

Hi Valerie! I am really enjoying learning about the Pluto in Libra generation. Seemingly you all are the majority generation here at Astrology Mysticwicks? or the most outgoing? or the most likely to be astrologers? Whacha think/feel?

RedRose

(By the way, someone confused me with someone called RubyRose who posts at Mysticswicks. She has a nice name. bet she is mighty fine people. I only post here in the Astrology section, though the whole site seems wonderful. Pluto in Libra generation at work and play?)

Kadynas and KEIshin,

I am a cock-eyed optimist and consecrated into the service of Mama Gaia; the Goddess. I pray to be heart awakened and to have all my chakras up and running, full kundalini ON. I have zero personal tolerance for wasting another life here on earth chasing crazily after $tuff, sex/romance/and/or power mongering, guilt tripping, micro-managing, rat racing etc.

I have learned astrology very slowly over the course of my life. Age 13-17 I found out I am an Aquarius and that was very freeing. Age 17-21, I learned I have a Leo Moon (Hey, hey!). 21-25, I figured out my Taurus Rising and had a first look at my own chart, and had my first reading. It was at my Saturn Return (age 28 or so) that I finally snapped to how dang HARD my scope is, Grand Fixed Squary-scary. Imagine my surprise to suddenly awakened to find that I have Saturn in Scorpio on my Descendant, exactly conjunct my X-husband's Scorpio Sun?

Now I am in my Chiron return process (1* Aquarius yet), and I am so tired of doing hindsight astrology, or using astrology to scare myself. I keep looking at scopes and seeing what we are capable of.

I have Pluto in Leo in the 5th House, opposite Mercury in Aquarius. Oppositions are about equal partners. So our Mercury is as powerful as PLuto in our charts, and Pluto is power itself, pure and big. Our whole generation, comes to us, through the 5th House and shoots right out, via communication (Mercury) into the 11th house (writing, public speaking, social justice activism, internet etc).

We are the voice of our generation, you might say. That is one of our gifts; others have other gifts.

RedRose

[LostSheep]

Hi KEishin and Valkie,

I think what you are saying about the Pluto in Libra generation is all very true and fascinating. Are you both from the Pluto in Libra generation, Neptune in Sag. sub-generation?

I am from the Neptune in Libra sub-generation of the Pluto in Leo generation. This gets me to thinking about how long term learning and earth changes can flow down through the generations.

My Neptune in Libra 1942-1956 generation only dreamt about what you guys are manifesting. It was our ideal. Likewise what the Pluto in Libra, Neptune in Sag. generation is dreaming up will manifest in the young kids of today, the Pluto in Sag generation.

And it is the Pluto in Virgo, Neptune in Scorpio generation that has a strong connection with the Pltuo in Scorpio, Neptune in Capricorn teens of today. I think we all should reach out to this very small but extremely powerful generation, Pluto in Scorpio packs a pow. Anyone here born between 1984 and 1995?

RedRose

Neptune in Scorpio 1956-1970

Neptune in Sag. 1970 to 1984

Neptune in Capricorn 1984 through 1998

yay. that's me. What does it imply? Are we obssessed with sex? that's what it usually says.

[RedRose]

Hi Lost Sheep,

Frankly, all humans age 15-25 are dealing with sexual energy a lot, and more likely to be obsessed by sex than older people. I actually suspect, though I don't know, that the Pluto in Scorpio generation are more comfortable with sex and that being het. or gay or bi doesn't mean as much as it has with earlier generations. I would expect greater acceptance of the full spectrum of sexual experience and more exploration but also more safety(condoms etc.) and a strong regard for privacy.

What do you think?

RedRose

[Valkie]

Hi Lost Sheep,

Frankly, all humans age 15-25 are dealing with sexual energy a lot, and more likely to be obsessed by sex than older people. I actually suspect, though I don't, that the Pluto in Scorpio generation are more comfortable with sex and that being het. or gay or bi doesn't mean as much as it has with earlier generations. I would expect greater acceptance of the full spectrum of sexual experience and more exploration but also more safety(condoms etc.) and a strong regard for privacy.

What do you think?

RedRose
From talking to others, I'd have to agree with this one. I actually got into a conversation about this with a couple of guys at the bar last week! It all stemmed from his commenting that his daughter introduces people (aka teen age friends) according to their sexual preference. "hi dad... this is my friend Larry. He's bi." It's like it's second nature now :lol:

Now, what I'm really interested in is everyone's Uranus aspects! I know that Uranus rules astrology... and I know that I've got a strong Uranus and that Kady has a strong Uranus (gods, that sounds soooo wrong) but I don't know about Keishin's, Fluff's or yours. As far as the rest of the board, I'm starting to think that they have no clue what we are talking about :lol:

[RedRose]

Hi Valerie,

Jupiter conjunct Uranus in Cancer on the 3rd House side of my IC. How is that for speaking Astrolo-Ease?

RedRose

[Fluffmeister]

Now, what I'm really interested in is everyone's Uranus aspects! I know that Uranus rules astrology... and I know that I've got a strong Uranus and that Kady has a strong Uranus (gods, that sounds soooo wrong) but I don't know about Keishin's, Fluff's or yours. As far as the rest of the board, I'm starting to think that they have no clue what we are talking about :lol:

Uranus in Leo opposite Mars in Aqu. I've always thought this was a 6th house/12th house thing (Uranus in 12th), but my Uranus isn't hidden! I'm a computer programmer and an astrologer - publicly! Now a strange thing happened at the astrology conference I was at a couple of weeks ago. The bookstall there was selling "astro dice" - you throw these three twelve-sided dice and they have planets, signs, houses on - and Rob Hand threw Uranus in Leo in the 12th. I said "you've just thrown my dice - I've got Uranus in Leo in the 12th!" He asked me where my Ascendant was, and I told him late Leo - he said "well, then you've *really* got Uranus in the 1st as it's the same sign as the Ascendant." I know Rob's a great fan of whole-sign houses, and it did click into place when he said that - my Uranus isn't remotely hidden!

[Kadynas]

Hi Valerie! I am really enjoying learning about the Pluto in Libra generation. Seemingly you all are the majority generation here at Astrology Mysticwicks? or the most outgoing? or the most likely to be astrologers? Whacha think/feel?

RedRose

(By the way, someone confused me with someone called RubyRose who posts at Mysticswicks. She has a nice name. bet she is mighty fine people. I only post here in the Astrology section, though the whole site seems wonderful. Pluto in Libra generation at work and play?)

Funniest thing is me, Keishin and Valkie all have pretty similar charts... Ascendants all close together. We also live in the same state, and me and Keishin were both born in PA. :lol: Funny how we all met up here huh? I'm pretty sure we all have Pisces at or near the Midheaven, so that could explain our fascination with the mystical realms. :)

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the Pluto in Scorpio generation might be the majority here, with Libra placing a close second and Virgo third, but like you say that could just be because they post more... :)

Kadynas and KEIshin,

I am a cock-eyed optimist and consecrated into the service of Mama Gaia; the Goddess. I pray to be heart awakened and to have all my chakras up and running, full kundalini ON. I have zero personal tolerance for wasting another life here on earth chasing crazily after $tuff, sex/romance/and/or power mongering, guilt tripping, micro-managing, rat racing etc.
Similar leanings here... despite having Venus in Taurus and a second house Mars, I'm about as unmaterialistic as you can get... I have no desire to be fabulously wealthy, or to have any of these "things" that people seem to collect to show their status in life. :lol: My "things" are my books, my art and my journals. Other than that I can do without it. I hate the fact that I have to work to make a living when there's so many other worthwhile uses for my time... working on my art, meditation and spiritual pursuits, writing... In the meantime though I'm trying to get a book together in hopes that I can eventually make a living at least partially doing something that I love. :) Now as for sex and romance... :lol: well most of us here know my life. I think a big part of my soul's growth is tied into my relationships this time around. Everytime I try to just be alone and do my own thing, someone seems to pop onto the scene. It's like the universe won't /let/ me be a hermit. :lol: But I do tend to take a more spiritual approach to sex and love. I don't want these head-games and mind-trips that pass for relationships nowadays... I want a deeper kind of love, a real spiritual, soul-level connection. I've been blessed (or cursed, depending on what day of the week you talk to me :lol: ) with meeting up with a few highly significant members of my soul kin this time around... :) Trying to figure out what exactly it is we're supposed to accomplish together can be dizzying, but it's really opening me up on many levels, especially concerning my intuition and healing abilities.

I personally connect with Apollo and Athene on a very deep level, but honor the entire pantheon as I feel each have something to teach me. Though I've been a "witch" (for lack of a better label) for almost 7 years now, I'm just beginning to delve into the energy work that accompanies my spiritual path. I started out focused on honoring the gods and lots of study, but now I'm starting to go more "interactive" if you will. :lol: People have always told me that I have a very strong energy to me, and I think in the past I was a bit frightened of that in myself, but slowly but surely I'm opening up to it more.

I have learned astrology very slowly over the course of my life. Age 13-17 I found out I am an Aquarius and that was very freeing. Age 17-21, I learned I have a Leo Moon (Hey, hey!). 21-25, I figured out my Taurus Rising and had a first look at my own chart, and had my first reading. It was at my Saturn Return (age 28 or so) that I finally snapped to how dang HARD my scope is, Grand Fixed Squary-scary. Imagine my surprise to suddenly awakened to find that I have Saturn in Scorpio on my Descendant, exactly conjunct my X-husband's Scorpio Sun?
I always loved reading the astrology specials in the teen magazines when I was a kid. When I was 12 my grandfather introduced me to Dell Horoscope magazines, and showed me how to draw up my chart and I was hooked ever since. By the time I hit college I was reading everything I could get my hands on and that hasn't stopped yet.
I have a couple difficult T-Squares (Venus/Saturn/Uranus and Mars/Chiron/Juno), along with a Grand Fire Trine and a Yod... just starting to feel the approach of my Saturn Return. There seems to be an urgency to "make up your mind already!" to bring more focus to what it is I actually want to do with my life... Saturn in Leo seems to say to me "I've given you all these talents, now do something with them... something real. Quit dabbling!" :lol: Luckily he's part of my Grand Trine... I'm actually embracing my Saturn Return, because I'm hoping it'll give me more of a firm sense of direction! I'm not overly attached to anything right now so if Saturn and Pluto want to tear through and wreak havoc taking away all the useless clutter in my life so be it! I'm ready!

Now I am in my Chiron return process (1* Aquarius yet), and I am so tired of doing hindsight astrology, or using astrology to scare myself. I keep looking at scopes and seeing what we are capable of.
I know what you mean, particularly as I've delving into the esoteric branch at the moment. :) I'm starting to see possibilities, getting a sense of where we all fit in in the bigger picture and it's absolutely fascinating!

I have Pluto in Leo in the 5th House, opposite Mercury in Aquarius. Oppositions are about equal partners. So our Mercury is as powerful as PLuto in our charts, and Pluto is power itself, pure and big. Our whole generation, comes to us, through the 5th House and shoots right out, via communication (Mercury) into the 11th house (writing, public speaking, social justice activism, internet etc).

We are the voice of our generation, you might say. That is one of our gifts; others have other gifts.

RedRose
Is that anything like the pen being mightier than the sword? :lol: Couldn't resist... But I see your point... To me it seems to be about going deep inside ourselves to find our answers and then communicating those to the world. _wiz_

[LostSheep]

Hi Lost Sheep,

Frankly, all humans age 15-25 are dealing with sexual energy a lot, and more likely to be obsessed by sex than older people. I actually suspect, though I don't know, that the Pluto in Scorpio generation are more comfortable with sex and that being het. or gay or bi doesn't mean as much as it has with earlier generations. I would expect greater acceptance of the full spectrum of sexual experience and more exploration but also more safety(condoms etc.) and a strong regard for privacy.

What do you think?

RedRose

You know, I think you could have something there ... i know that for a while, i wasn't sure whether I was gay, straight or bi... I was fairly f****ed up about it at the time, but that was because of pressure from parents and school and all that, but now i've decided, hey what the heck ... and yeah, I can't believe i'm telling people this either.

[KEishin]

Funniest thing is me, Keishin and Valkie all have pretty similar charts... Ascendants all close together. We also live in the same state, and me and Keishin were both born in PA.
You know what's funnier? My birth date was right in between you kids and I live right between the two of you geographically! :lol:

I'm pretty sure we all have Pisces at or near the Midheaven, so that could explain our fascination with the mystical realms.
In my case not only do I have Pisces on the MC, but its ruler Neptune is in my 6th house of work!

Now, what I'm really interested in is everyone's Uranus aspects! I know that Uranus rules astrology... and I know that I've got a strong Uranus and that Kady has a strong Uranus (gods, that sounds soooo wrong) but I don't know about Keishin's, Fluff's or yours.
It's Rx at 14 Scorpio, only a few minutes from exact opposition with my Sun. I wouldn't say it's a prominent as it could be, being in the 5th, but it does get felt because of it's aspects. It's in so many configurations it's not even funny. (See for yourself - 5 May 1978, 8:34 am EDT, Tunkhannock PA)

Being Rx, it is always asking for me to push my boundaries in the areas of my relationships, my creativity and just having plain ol' fun. (The latter of which I never really learned how to do until Pluto passed over it! :lol: ) I was the stereotypical "nerd" kid - smart, big mouth, always reading (that hasn't stopped) and just chock full of questions. I was interested in spiritual stuff from a very early age - always have had very clear precognition, which was scary - so being apart from the kids my age (for a variety of reasons) left me lots of time to study and figure things out.

I have learned astrology very slowly over the course of my life.
I hear you there RedRose. I knew my Sun sign and rising as a child, but never really looked into the deeper meanings until I got older. I picked up books over the years but never really got hooked until Pluto passed over my Neptune! Once that happened, I really dug into my chart and realized, like it sounds you did, that I had the map out of my broken life that I had been looking for! I saw what I could be if I could harness it, so I went after it, with all the vigor that a Fire Trine person can do (which is a lot)! And voila, here I am.

[RedRose]

Whoa. Awesome insights. Wonderful. Inspiring. This is the best darn thread. Thanks for helping me research this question.

Astrology books, blech! I keep hunting and hunting for more books and so few satisfy me. I learn more here on the internet and in my weekly astrology group. I like to work together with other astrologers, as equals; Aquarius Sun conjunct 11th House cusp. In my weekly group it is just like it is here. Three or four good astrologers meet and anyone else can come too and get readings and learn astrology. Holy holy mercy mercy. We learn so much and give excellent group readings.

RedRose

[RedRose]

KEIshin,

Uranus opposite Sun is powerful no matter where it hangs. Your Sun is equal partners with Uranus and thus the Taurus/Scorpio axis potentially enlightens and electrifies your social/global impact (5th/11th house axis).

Conjunctions and oppositions with Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are all potentially huge empowerments, assuming we are able to merge with (conjunct), or channel (opposition) the outer cosmic planet's energy into this plane, this world, this life.

RedRose

[Valkie]

Oh yes, the "open mouth insert foot" syndrome... hubby is always telling me that I have no mental filter... my Mercury is Fixed T-squared opp Uranus square Saturn... no impulse control. Since we've seemed to jump to Uranus aspects for a bit, I might as well put mine up on the chopping block. Besides the T-square, mine is also a focal point of a Kite with Cancer Asc, Taurus Mercury, Pisces Moon and a Boomerange w/ Gemini Jupiter, Mercury, and Aries Venus/Mars.

I can sooo relate to the 'oddball'. Mental persuits are my entertainment. I took woodshop in 9th grade for the sole purpose of building a bookshelf.

RR:Jupiter conjunct Uranus in Cancer on the 3rd House side of my IC. How is that for speaking Astrolo-Ease, eh? well, that explains the impulse for speaking astrolo-ease :lol: (actually, I usually just call it Astrobabble)

And me too: Neptune in the 6th Pisces MC and Pisces Moon conjunct to MC.

as far as astrology starts: I was never interested in it when I was younger... guess I was too busy people watching. My interest in astrology started with hubby's girlfriend at the time. She dabbled and brought a Lisa Green book over the house one day... it was just too funny how much hubby fit the Sag description. I figured that there had to be something to it all so I started researching... that was the end of it. I've been into it for the past *counts on fingers* 4 years.

[Shynes]

The Pluto in Scorpio thing - mine is probably the reason why I'm so obsessed with the car accident I was in when I was 5. I'm afraid to get my driver's license because of it... I take the subway everywhere.

[Kadynas]

You know what's funnier? My birth date was right in between you kids and I live right between the two of you geographically! :lol:
LMAO :lol: Too funny!


In my case not only do I have Pisces on the MC, but its ruler Neptune is in my 6th house of work!
And even funnier, same here!

Being Rx, it is always asking for me to push my boundaries in the areas of my relationships, my creativity and just having plain ol' fun. (The latter of which I never really learned how to do until Pluto passed over it! :lol: ) I was the stereotypical "nerd" kid - smart, big mouth, always reading (that hasn't stopped) and just chock full of questions. I was interested in spiritual stuff from a very early age - always have had very clear precognition, which was scary - so being apart from the kids my age (for a variety of reasons) left me lots of time to study and figure things out.
Same here... I was considered an "Art Geek" in high school. There was a whole wing of the building that was just for art classes and I spent most of my time there. In fact senior year, over half of my classes were in art. :) We had an Advanced Art Class that year where we made portfolios to take with us to college interviews. It was wonderful to have that sense of community with other serious artists. We were a /very/ Uranian group. :lol:


Whoa. Awesome insights. Wonderful. Inspiring. This is the best darn thread. Thanks for helping me research this question.

Astrology books, blech! I keep hunting and hunting for more books and so few satisfy me. I learn more here on the internet and in my weekly astrology group. I like to work together with other astrologers, as equals; Aquarius Sun conjunct 11th House cusp. In my weekly group it is just like it is here. Three or four good astrologers meet and anyone else can come too and get readings and learn astrology. Holy holy mercy mercy. We learn so much and give excellent group readings.
See that's what I long for, a nice little group that I could ramble on about this kinda stuff with for a few hours or so every week. :) Unfortunately Keishin and Valkie live on the opposite side of the state from me... :lol:

[RedRose]

Shynes,

Can we see your chart? If you post your birth data someone will pop your chart up here. Or maybe you know how to do that yourself. You interested in astrology?

RedRose

[Shynes]

Astrology is very intresting to me, RedRose. I've already pretty much asked all the things I'd like to know about my chart. Everybody's been so nice to me here and have always helped with my questions, so thanks to them, I've really taken on a better understanding of my chart. Sorry, no, I don't know how to post attachments... here's my data if you're curious: May 10, 1986 12:44 am New York, NY

[RedRose]

Dear All,

How many of the astrologers here didn't really get into astrology until the Saturn Return (age 28 or 29ish)?

RedRose

PS - Shynes,

I find entering the data into my 'puter and getting the chart loaded here to be tedious. I am slow at that sort of thing and busy and age 50. And I couldn't find the thread with your scope posted in it and I don't wish to push you to expose yourself anyway. Well not too much, that is.

I was simply interested in looking at your Pluto in Scorpio, where it falls in your chart and where you access your generation's power.

[Shynes]

Hope this works. It's the best I could do with trying to post my chart: http://rep.astrology.com/free/9110/8031/gif1.html

My Pluto's in the 9th.

[Valkie]

Dear All,

How many of the astrologers here didn't really get into astrology until the Saturn Return (age 28 or 29ish)?

RedRose



Well, I've got my Saturn Return going now... so I know it wasn't that. Looking back, I had a couple of heavy transits going.
1.T. Saturn conjunct N. Jupiter in Gemini in 12th.
2.T. Neptune in Aquarius in 8th was completeing my half formed N. Grand Sextile.

Transiting Saturn and t. Neptune were exact trine to each other.

[RedRose]

O yeah, you all must be at your Saturn Returns now. Scratch that question.

...Neptune up in the sky, in Aquarius in your 8th House, was completing your half formed Natal Grand Sextile.

PING! What a lovely sight! So you received an astrology download from on high at that time? Or?

RedRose

[RedRose]

Hi Shynes.

That works great.

You see how you have Pluto opposite Mercury just like I do and Kadynas and KEishin? Review what we have said about this in this very thread. Now you know what Pluto in the 9th means and Mercury in the 3rd?

Here is a canned description from www.astrology-numerology.com:


Ninth House Pluto

Pluto positioned in the ninth house of higher thought suggests the need to understand the fundamental forces of man and nature. The higher mental powers are especially strong and inclined toward regeneration of legal, educational, moral, and philosophic systems. There is significant perception of the core causes of problems connected with the larger social order. The intuition regarding such matters is highly developed giving profound insight and understanding. You have little tolerance for hypocrisy and social injustice. There may be a tendency to impose views on others.


Third House Mercury

Mercury residing in the third house produces an association with this location, its natural home, the house of the conscious mind. This placement stimulates matters of the mind, and shows that you are witty and clever, especially in the use of words. Not necessarily a deep thinker (but with Pluto opposite, you are in fact a deep thinker), but alert, adaptable, and versatile. You express ideas fluently, and display a variety of talents. You may find a tendency to become involved in many superficial contacts and passing fancies, because your mind remains always active and busy (again, Pluto makes it unlikely that you are flighty. More likely you can be too powerful at times, too articulate, and people freak out- don't know what to make of you).

RedRose

[Valkie]

O yeah, you all must be at your Saturn Returns now. Scratch that question.

...Neptune up in the sky, in Aquarius in your 8th House, was completing your half formed Natal Grand Sextile.

PING! What a lovely sight! So you received an astrology download from on high at that time? Or?

RedRose
:lol: pretty much. Once I got bit by the bug, I couldn't get enough. I got one book that showed how to draw up charts and stuff... and then I started searching the internet. That was the end of it! I was spending 3-4 hours a day on astrology research, drove my hubby nuts!

I think it's going to be interesting when the next heavy transit hits that point... T. Chiron is due to hit it in early 2007.

[RedRose]

Hi Valkie,

My study of astrology seems very linked to my Saturn transits down through the years. I got serious about studying astrology for use in my own life at my Saturn Return. My Saturn Return was not dramatic or traumatic. I just suddenly woke up and realized that I was nearly 30 and I needed to do something with my life. I spent my 20s as an at home Mom, and at my Saturn Return I returned to university in religious studies. I became a writer and performance artist and theater director. For money I started working hospice around the time of my Uranus opposition and divorce. Pluto in the sky was conjunct my Saturn on the Descendant - and my Xman's Sun.

It was also during my Uranus opposition that I started doing other people's charts. I experienced an astrology download; that is what it felt like.

Now my friend Willow never gave astrology one thought until her Mom died right as Saturn was transitting Willow's Ascendant - just a year and 1/2 ago. Her Chiron Return was/is also happening. Her Mom had been a devoted Seventh Day Adventist and thus tarot and astrology etc. were "of Satan" in her Mom's worldview. Willow left the church at age 18 and traveled the world and had a great career and life doing high tech research but she always avoided "the occult," maybe out of respect for her Mom.

Willow became friends with my husband and me at this same time in her life. Of course, my husband Ken and I use the tarot all the time and I talk astrolo-ease too much, and there are altars and rocks in our lives. I couldn't resist showing Willow her chart.

BAM. Willow got hooked and she is very fast at research and now she has read every book on the subject and she is part of that weekly astrology group -an excellent astrologer. She has become a Pagan and experienced a croning ritual. She changed her name to Willow.

RedRose

[Shynes]

Glad the link worked! That's a great site you put up there, RedRose. I can use it for reference - thanks for sharing it!

[KEishin]

Dear All,

How many of the astrologers here didn't really get into astrology until the Saturn Return (age 28 or 29ish)?

RedRose

Well my SR is about to start, so the answer is . . . not me! :D
Seriously, it was when Pluto passed over my Neptune in Sag that my interest really took off. Of course a lot of stuff hit that fan during that period - interestingly enough, the first date it went exact was the week I answered a classified ad for a Wiccan study group. I'd wanted to do group work for many years, but was a little chicken. Plus the solitary life was all I could handle in college.

[RedRose]

KEishin,

Transit Pluto over Natal Neptune in Sag. I got it.

I was looking at today's chart, today's transits, the charts of babies being born in my town today.

Pluto in Sagittarius. Neptune in Aquarius. Uranus in Pisces. What a yummy generation! Magical!

Makes me suddenly want grandchildren! (Anyone pregnant out there?)

RedRose

[RedRose]

I was thinking about my own generation, the Pluto in Leo Boomers yesterday and thinking about what Jeff Green says about how we evolutionarily need to shoot the Pluto energy of our charts across to the other side of the axis to fulfill our destinies. He holds this as more primal than working our North Nodes this life.

This means the Pluto in Leo generation was suppose to bring in Aquarian ideals, which many of my generation did and still do. The Pluto in Virgo generation needs to bring positive Pisces energy to the planet and all you Pluto in Libra folk need to work on being leaders and pioneering new realms, ala Aries.

The Pluto in Scorpio generation is going to create new values and probably revolutionize commerce and exchange at the least.

Children and babies these days are Sag in Pluto so expect a huge advance in communication ala Gemini from them. Global telepathy anyone?

RedRose

[the monk]

I seldom have time to have an interest in personal charts, my area being mundane, i have found all the comments fascinating, especially Pluto in Leo, where my twitchy Pluto sits on the M.C., nice thread keep it coming!

[RedRose]

Whoa Monk, that is a pile of trouble having Pluto in Leo on the Midheaven! I enjoy your research projects and the esoterica and I am happy to know there is another Pluto in Leo astrologer here! This forum makes me feel young and old at the same time! How about you?

RedRose

[the monk]

Whoa Monk, that is a pile of trouble having Pluto in Leo on the Midheaven! I enjoy your research projects and the esoterica and I am happy to know there is another Pluto in Leo astrologer here! This forum makes me feel young and old at the same time! How about you?

RedRose
As you know i have a "few" quintiles, so my career just had to be music, so that keeps me young, my natal chart tends to slap me on the wrist to get on with research..Ha Ha!....I'm Scorpio rising, Sun sign Leo, Pluto ,Mercury Jupiter,M.C., Regulus conjunction..Zap Zap!
Talking of Regulus, it changes signs on 18th September 2011, Leo to Virgo i wouldnt be surprised if that had a big effect on all our generation, Pluto in Leo....it only happens once in over 2000 years. Although astrologers these days tend to downgrade Regulus, we may be surprised by the effect, after all it is a Persian royal star, the watcher of the North, and ruler of the angles of the Earth.
It may drag all us "older Pluto/Leo Lot" out to be of service (Virgo) to the world in some way, interesting thought!

[Xander67]

Im 18 by 0 (zero) degrees Virgo

almost into Libra, which was only 18 clicks away on the compas :)

(may 20th)

so I guess I was born with a Pluto in transition??? So near Libra that it's effects we begining to influence the souls being born close to 72???:fprtyman3


yep! I knew something was wrong with me LMAO :farmerjoe:

[RedRose]

Hi Xanders,

Do you mean your Pluto is 18 degrees, 0 minutes Libra? Your Sun? Or Pluto at 0 degrees, 18 minutes Libra?

RedRose

[RedRose]

"I'm Scorpio rising, Sun sign Leo, Pluto ,Mercury Jupiter,M.C., Regulus conjunction..Zap Zap!" - Monk

Monk, are you a famous musician or does that Scorpio Rising keep all that Leo Midheaven action cloaked or....?

RedRose

[the monk]

"I'm Scorpio rising, Sun sign Leo, Pluto ,Mercury Jupiter,M.C., Regulus conjunction..Zap Zap!" - Monk

Monk, are you a famous musician or does that Scorpio Rising keep all that Leo Midheaven action cloaked or....?

RedRose
Hi RedRose,
No i'm not a famous musician, it is said you have to be "aware" of quintiles before they work properly, my chart didnt work till Uranus was nearing my I.C. a couple of years back (29* Aquarius), i have no idea what i'm supposed to be.....an alien probably Ha Ha! Perhaps you could tell me? Ive posted it before but chart on attachment, not showing all aspects.....Its hard to know where to begin....

[RedRose]

Monk, you look like one of the terrorist attacks you've been studying!

Give me a little time to simply gaze mutely in wonder, and then I will give your scope my best attempt.

Mighty mighty pretty. How's your heart chakra?

RedRose

[RedRose]

Hmmmm, monk my ass. Vestal virgin? Maybe.

Vesta on the Ascendant; a life consecrated to Vesta. Dear Knight, if you have not yet handed over your life to the Goddess in service, then zzzzzzzzzzzzz. End of story.

Scorpio Rising with Pluto as Ruler in Leo (barely) on Midheaven. Sudden fame. A Plutonic sort of person, a transition teacher, bridging between the Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Virgo folk, bringing in Aquarian/Pisces energy.

Scorio Rising means private, but there are ways to get famous and remain a bit cloaked (like using stupid screennames, like "MonK"). Mercury on midheaven; writer. Mercury in Virgo; researcher. Moon in Virgo; LOVES research. In 10th House, you will gain audience.

So many astrologers have Virgo Moons. Mustn't get stuck in your head though!

Heart awakening, or else. That is what I see in your chart. And with Chiron in Aquarius you are weird too. Your neighbors don't understand you? Or are you the ultimate urban hermit?

With a chart like yours (insert twilight zone music here) , life will do you, more than you do life.

RedRose

[the monk]

Hmmmm, monk my ass. Vestal virgin? Maybe.

Vesta on the Ascendant; a life consecrated to Vesta. Dear Knight, if you have not yet handed over your life to the Goddess in service, then zzzzzzzzzzzzz. End of story.

Scorpio Rising with Pluto as Ruler in Leo (barely) on Midheaven. Sudden fame. A Plutonic sort of person, a transition teacher, bridging between the Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Virgo folk, bringing in Aquarian/Pisces energy.

Scorio Rising means private, but there are ways to get famous and remain a bit cloaked (like using stupid screennames, like "MonK"). Mercury on midheaven; writer. Mercury in Virgo; researcher. Moon in Virgo; LOVES research. In 10th House, you will gain audience.

So many astrologers have Virgo Moons. Mustn't get stuck in your head though!

Heart awakening, or else. That is what I see in your chart. And with Chiron in Aquarius you are weird too. Your neighbors don't understand you? Or are you the ultimate urban hermit?

With a chart like yours (insert twilight zone music here) , life will do you, more than you do life.

RedRose
Thank you RedRose, for your analysis, it is pretty much spot on. I am obviously not the only soul to have my chart as it spun around the world, others will be more advanced yet others may be open to mistakes, where i sit i really am not sure, not expecting or wanting sympathy, all i can say is my chart only works by not reacting to other peoples karma issues, yet having a few issues myself, this only works if i accept loss and see all from everyone else's perspective, whether that is right or wrong. It is a deep karma chart, gifts are only given by suffering, then reacting in the right way. Uranus on the I.C. a few years back electrified my consciousness, but also started to fuse the discs in my backbone big time!(Saturn in first house, Leo Sun sign) Ha Ha, dont expect something for nothing, i try very very hard in developing my heart chakra, yet probably i am at risk in this life of not being able to fulfill karma expectations, yet dont write me off, i have too much scorpion in me, Ha Ha! I am harmless, just a scribe, yet i have found others with this chart who are very very powerful, over all of us. I am content to be the toothless dog who announces arrivals, which is the essense of the dog star Sirius, which i also have a connection with.
The message is, do not take what i write as being true, but do your homework, so that you are sure that it isnt true.....there is the fool and the seerer in my chart, if i ever see clearly, will only happen if i overcome deep karma considerations.... the wild card at a tennis tournament....On a lighter note, if only i could get my hands around the throat of the bit of me that signed my contract....Ha Ha, just joking!

[RedRose]

Write you off? Where would you like to go in my writing? Hawaii, Paris?

You seem a perfectly marvelous person and the research you do is fascinating and needful, and you hang out with a bunch of sweetheart earthy Pagans. When you put the cursor over those green lights under your screenname, it says you are too nice. I like people who are too nice, myself.

As to whether you are fulfilling your destiny? I look forward to tracking your Chiron Return. You haven't gotten famous yet, right? That is still to come, correct?

RedRose

[the monk]

Write you off? Where would you like to go in my writing? Hawaii, Paris?

You seem a perfectly marvelous person and the research you do is fascinating and needful, and you hang out with a bunch of sweetheart earthy Pagans. When you put the cursor over those green lights under your screenname, it says you are too nice. I like people who are too nice, myself.

As to whether you are fulfilling your destiny? I look forward to tracking your Chiron Return. You haven't gotten famous yet, right? That is still to come, correct?

RedRose
Hi RedRose,
No i am not famous, nor do i look for fame, so it would be a strange set of circumstances, if that happened.
As i said i am only a scribe trying to decipher the cyclic myths, and their meaning for us in the 21st Century....let me explain more!
Up to a few years back, scientists were taping an old Irish "story teller", who had been chosen while still a child for his incredible memory, yet he couldnt read or write.
He was the last in a unbroken line going back into the mists of time.....There still are a few "story tellers" in small out of the way villages in Turkey, that seem divorced from the modern world, we would better understand them as minstrels that sing songs of great events that took place many thousands of years ago. I believe it is from them we get the great astrology myths, that eventually were written down.
To many that are new to astrology, the ancient myths and legends may seem child like in nature, many refer to an ancient event that has been embellished adding amusing but perhaps untrue details, as with parables in the Bible, they are a simple story designed to teach a moral lesson that help us understand the great astrology cyclic patterns.
We can safely say that the ancients were highly symbolic due to their better understanding of the right hemisphere of the brain.
Homer was a blind minstrel earning his living probably on the ancient coast of Turkey, in effect teaching history by song to all those who couldnt read or write........Most of the moving saga of Helen, the ancient Greeks, and the Trojans is "true", although probably the Trojan horse is an embellishment....which is sad for the Greeks, as they have been stuck with the English cliche "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts".
I feel a connection within my self to the story tellers and minstrels as i try to decipher the ancient true meaning behind the message......that is my focus, but not for personal gain or fame, im wary of those entrapments. For my self i wait for Neptune, as it nears my I.C. in a few years time....at least i will be able to bark at the Moon by then, with Neptune opposite Pluto frying my brains Ha Ha!

[RedRose]

Now Monk, I never said you were coveting fame. I am simply observing that you have Pluto - in Leo yet - on your Midheaven. Mercury is in Virgo conjunct your MH as well. And you have a Leo Sun and Leo Uranus? How do you interpret all that?

Northnode in Sag. in the 1st House isn't into infinite hermitude; variety in self expression!

I like the storyteller image very much, just suspect you may suddenly gain a large and powerful audience for your tales (and/or astrology research). Just because you aren't looking for this doesn't mean it won't happen. Pluto on the MH, your ruling planet; seems like something very powerful and public ought to manifest.... you disagree?

RedRose

[mercuric]

redrose,

i would love to hear your interpretation of or thoughts about pluto on the midheaven.. i have that in my chart and have had a hard time understanding its significance :)

[RedRose]

Hi Mercuric,

Having Pluto on the Midheaven seems to me to mean that you enbody your whole generation; maybe you might be the voice of your generation in some way, that sort of thing. Also, ala Jeff Green, at your most primal soul level, you need to shoot your Pluto energy down your IC, so you probably have access to ancestral knowledge. Dig deep, you were built to dig deep.

Sudden fame, maybe more than once in life. Or public scandal. Martyrdom is always possible, or a specular death of some sort!

Robin Williams has Pluto conjunct his MH. And Nixon. Who else?

Here are more mundane interp.s off the web:

http://www.astrologysoftwareshop.com/natal/pnr/reports.htm

Pluto conjunct Midheaven

Your drive for success is so compelling that you seem (to yourself at least) to be marked by destiny. You want to be the agent for permanent and lasting change in your chosen line of endeavor. Very competitive, you are unafraid of the responsibilities that ensue for those seeking power and authority. As such, you have great leadership potential. The biggest problem here is that your ambition may cause you to disrespect the needs of others. Be careful: any tendency toward using unethical or strong-arm tactics will produce a tremendous amount of resistance to your efforts from many quarters. If you combine tact and humility with your strong sense of mission, you will be truly powerful.



http://www.manic-raven.com/astrology/Pluto_Aspect.htm

Pluto Conjunct Midheaven:

In structuring your professional life, you invest a great deal of energy. To reach the goals you have set for yourself, you demonstrate a sophistication that astounds everyone around you. In a classical sense, Pluto at the MC points to activity in atomic physics, still Pluto is involved with everything that has depth. Probably you have intuitive energy that you should definitely put to use in a way that will benefit everybody, or else it could have negative consequences for you.

Pluto deals with renewal; its position at the MC may mean that your status will constantly be changing. Possibly you will also often change your professional field. Even if the people closest to you do not react with a lot of understanding, you are convinced that it is necessary.

http://astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/pluto-conjunct-midheaven-mc.php

Pluto conjunct Midheaven

During your life, you will go through many changes, but you will always have the desire to make an impact upon the world and to be regarded as a person of significance. The danger you must face it that you may want to go too far too fast and thereby alienate the people who have authority over you. While you are young, this will mean mostly parents and teachers, but you might occasionally encounter police or government officials.

You are likely to have a very intense relationship with one of your parents, and it is important that this be a good relationship as well. Unless it is constructive, guilt and other forms of emotional bondage may arise from it. You must be able to talk to that parent openly and honestly, and he or she must be able to let go as you become more mature. Unfortunately this placement often indicates that one of your parents tries to arrest your development at some point through being overpossessive and domineering.

Sometimes the method is very subtle, using self-sacrifice and guilt, instead of more open power tactics. But a positive and creative parent relationship will give you self-confidence and the desire to achieve something of great significance in your life.

One thought that you must always keep before you, however, is the necessity of doing everything openly and honestly. Otherwise, at some point in your life, all the negative consequences of your actions will be exposed, thus tearing down whatever good you have done. Nixon is an example of this type of person.

RedRose

[RedRose]

Any Pluto in Cancer elders here? Anyone born before 1940?

Pluto goes in Capricorn in 2008 and I noticed that there is an article about that in Mountain Astrologer but I haven't read it yet. Again, because of the eliptical orbit of Pluto, we have been whipping through generations, astrologically speakiing. Both my parents and grandparents were Pluto in Cancer. I am Pluto in Leo, with 2 Pluto in Libra daughters and a Pluto in Scorpio son. If my daughters (ages 27 and 29) have children in the next three years, I will have Pluto in Sagittarius grandkids, if not I will have Pluto in Capricorn grandkids perhaps.

Now those Pluto in Cap. kids will grow up and have another generation of Pluto in Capricorn kids! It will be the long side of the Pluto orbit.

Then Pluto will fly away out into space, leaving the zodiac as we know it, never to return....or maybe not but I will be long dead, so whatever.

RedRose

[mercuric]

Hi Mercuric,

Having Pluto on the Midheaven seems to me to mean that you enbody your whole generation; maybe you might be the voice of your generation in some way, that sort of thing. Also, ala Jeff Green, at your most primal soul level, you need to shoot your Pluto energy down your IC, so you probably have access to ancestral knowledge. Dig deep, you were built to dig deep.

Sudden fame, maybe more than once in life. Or public scandal. Martyrdom is always possible, or a specular death of some sort!

Robin Williams has Pluto conjunct his MH. And Nixon. Who else?


Interesting! I am definitly into digging deep, and will spend hours happily chiseling and blasting away at the surface to get to the real "meat" that lurks below. It can occupy hours (sometimes even days) of my mental time and it's always very satisfying!

interesting on the ancestral knowledge. I feel very cut off from my own ancestors (direct family ancestors, that is) yet feel a special connection to the greater whole of past society. I've always wondered if this was something with pluto or my 12th house neptune that is said to offer me intuition from the collective unconscious... but this seems on a much more conscious level. Often I simply feel "out of time" as if i'm a few hundred years too late.

Thinking about this made me realize pluto influences my mercury as much as uranus does.. In the past i've mainly seen the uranus conjunction.. however, mercury is in scorpio (pluto's sign) and is also closely semisextile pluto. It's uranian connection is equally strong, as it's conjunct uranus and in the 11th house (of aquarius/uranus)

Thanks for the reply, quite interesting! :D

[the monk]

Now Monk, I never said you were coveting fame. I am simply observing that you have Pluto - in Leo yet - on your Midheaven. Mercury is in Virgo conjunct your MH as well. And you have a Leo Sun and Leo Uranus? How do you interpret all that?

Northnode in Sag. in the 1st House isn't into infinite hermitude; variety in self expression!

I like the storyteller image very much, just suspect you may suddenly gain a large and powerful audience for your tales (and/or astrology research). Just because you aren't looking for this doesn't mean it won't happen. Pluto on the MH, your ruling planet; seems like something very powerful and public ought to manifest.... you disagree?

RedRose
Hi RedRose,
I do understand that i cant side step natal chart considerations, but my personal study of karma has left me very humble, possessions do not mean much to me, money that i earn is usually spent on my child or step-child, who i love sincerely and deeply, like many of us do, they are not sentiments that only i possess....sorry, virgin Vesta sentiments!
Anyhow, as you like the " Story Teller" image....lets create a bit of magic, after all i cant say i am a master astrologer...my love is sacred geometry, myths and legends!
ELEVENS AND THE INVOLUNTARY ST. VITAS DANCE, 1914-1918.
Throughout the Middle Ages there was a disease that attacked the nervous system, the symptoms being involuntary jerking and movement of limbs, so it looked as if those that were afflicted were dancing!
In order to understand exactly what went wrong back in the summer of 1914, we need to look no further than examine the key alliances that occurred between 1879 and 1907, ending with "The Triple Entente".
In Fact these treaties were alliances that the major nations signed in fear of each other declaring war, yet made all of Europe vulnerable to a terrorist attack, bringing the powerful nations into an involuntary dance of death and a war that no one wanted yet were duty bound by the signed agreements.
I mention this fact only to show how the collective consciousness/memory somehow can get played out in events that unfold by starting on a particular date.
St. Vitas Dance is dancing to someone elses tune, that is involuntary.
Lets put some details down so that you understand better.
St. Vitas Day 1389, The Battle of Kosovo Polye, (field of blackbirds) marks the beginning of the Serbian Nation, the spirit of togetherness that saw the Serbian peoples unite against the Turkish invader.
There is some grounds to speculate that June 28th 1914, St Vitas Day may have been chosen as the date to open W.W.1.
Two bullets fired on a Sarajevo street on a sunny morning in 1914 set in motion a series of events that shaped the world we live in today. World War One, World War Two, The Middle East problem, The Cold War and its conclusions, all trace their origins to the gunshots that interrupted that summer day, June 28th, 1914.
The victims, Archduke Ferdinand, heir to the throne of the Austro- Hungarian Empire, and his wife Sophie were shot by 19 year old Gavrilo Princip who burned with the fire of Slavic nationalism. He envisioned the death of the Archduke as the key that would unlock the shackles binding his people to the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Serbia, figured prominently in the plot......independent Serbia provided the guns, ammunition and training that made the assassination possible......they may also have seen a symbolic connection to the "Battle of Kosovo Polye", and so in theory used this date.
Gavrilo Princip become an unwitting "Pied Piper", as this assassination precipitated the Austrian declaration of war against Serbia which triggered W.W.1., and the involuntary St. Vitas Dance.
By the time the Armistice took place on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month 1918, (laying down of arms by all nations) so that a peace treaty could be concluded, Britain and France wanted to make Germany pay dearly for many years for being in a war that in effect wasnt only her fault.
America, to her credit realising that this could spell problems in the area with civil unrest and a possible re-occurence of this conflict in the decades that followed didnt ratify the peace agreement that Britain and France entered into that forced Germany to pay crippling repayments for the losses incurred by the victors.
Thus Britain and France wanted Germany to dance to their tune......The date that Germany was forced to sign this agreement was again June 28th 1919, (St. Vitas Day), being the "Treaty of Versailles".
America didnt ratify a separate peace treaty with Germany till 3 years after the Armistice, (11th hour 11/11/1918)........RATIFIED SIGNED PEACE DOCUMENTS WERE EXCHANGED IN BERLIN ON 11/11/1921...At 11am. for all i know....looks very suspicious that numerology was used, as 11 is a master number that would powerplay and underline any agreement.
The story and plot thickens....do you want me to continue into part two, with the "Story Tellers" tale?....... Perhaps this isnt the right thread for true stories, yet that is my focus having a Pluto M.C.

[RedRose]

Hi Monk,

I want both. Continue here AND copy it into a separate thread to make it easier for others to find it.

RedRose

[RedRose]

Hello Mercuric,

What similarities do you see between yourself and the Monk (2 Pluto on the MidHeaven people)? Of course, the Monk has Pluto in Leo and you are Pluto in Libra? But you both are detailed astrologers; fairly esoteric I would say. Grasp of history may be another common theme.

What kind of astrology research are you most engaged with?

RedRose

[the monk]

Hi Monk,

I want both. Continue here AND copy it into a separate thread to make it easier for others to find it.

RedRose
Okay RedRose,
for the moment please find document on attachment verifying most dates mentioned in part one, i always have "government" documents to back my "stories".....Pluto investigator (Sam Spade) Ha Ha!

[mercuric]

Hello Mercuric,

What similarities do you see between yourself and the Monk (2 Pluto on the MidHeaven people)? Of course, the Monk has Pluto in Leo and you are Pluto in Libra? But you both are detailed astrologers; fairly esoteric I would say. Grasp of history may be another common theme.

What kind of astrology research are you most engaged with?

RedRose

Honestly I dont know any of you enough to make comparisons yet.. that will change it seems ;) If pluto on the midheaven has the sort of effect i seem to think it has on me, we're probably both very intense, such that people we come in contact with may even be intimdated by that intensity.. I bet we're both also able to touch upon subjects or philosophies most people would be a bit fearful of. I do notice we both pay major attention to geometry and are not afraid to talk about the astrology of very dark times.

I'm mostly into event and relationship astrology... Relating current (and upcoming) sky conditions with events below. I find astrology can help me understand current events in a new manner, and understand some of the motivating energies behind happenings. relationship astrology perks me because i enjoy learning about human relationships, and find it can be very helpful to couples... with the added bonus of helping me understand my own relationships on a much deeper level!

Most of the stuff i've been studying as of late has to do with major world events. I've been relating aspect patterns, midpoints, and the lunar nodes to events for a while, and I think I'm learning some interesting things!

I'm definitly the "outer planet" type with all three outers placed in fairly strong spots... This seems to make me want to connect to the collective rather than any one individual of the collective.

[the monk]

Honestly I dont know any of you enough to make comparisons yet.. that will change it seems ;) If pluto on the midheaven has the sort of effect i seem to think it has on me, we're probably both very intense, such that people we come in contact with may even be intimdated by that intensity.. I bet we're both also able to touch upon subjects or philosophies most people would be a bit fearful of. I do notice we both pay major attention to geometry and are not afraid to talk about the astrology of very dark times.

I'm mostly into event and relationship astrology... Relating current (and upcoming) sky conditions with events below. I find astrology can help me understand current events in a new manner, and understand some of the motivating energies behind happenings. relationship astrology perks me because i enjoy learning about human relationships, and find it can be very helpful to couples... with the added bonus of helping me understand my own relationships on a much deeper level!

Most of the stuff i've been studying as of late has to do with major world events. I've been relating aspect patterns, midpoints, and the lunar nodes to events for a while, and I think I'm learning some interesting things!

I'm definitly the "outer planet" type with all three outers placed in fairly strong spots... This seems to make me want to connect to the collective rather than any one individual of the collective.
Hi Merc,
Interesting stuff, i think you are right that we may well delve into stuff that others would be a little apprehensive in studying.
I even scare myself, as im not sure of the forces within myself yet.....maybe i look at odds too much, as i'm always looking for Pluto signs to verify my connection to the collective karmic sea.
I must admit that obviously normally i wouldnt look for a Pluto connection with fixed stars in a natal chart but it didnt settle my nerves looking at my Pluto parans for the day i was born.
I know Bernadette Brady doesnt make any mention about the significance of Pluto rising on the day of birth with the "Head of the Dragon/Hydra grinning at it over the horizon, but as you can see from attachment behind the Dragon is Sirius rising......thats enough to give my wimpy Pluto the jitters, ha ha! More sacred geometry on attachment for you as well.

[RedRose]

Frankly, Monk and Merc, you do seem to have a lot in common as astrologers. Of course, not all people with Pluto on the Midheaven are astrologers. Pluto connunct MH folks I have met are intense people and into history and often politics.

Found this. Seems to say what you two are saying.

http://www.starfriends.com/NSAspectsPluto.HTM
Pluto Conjunct Midheaven

You have a natural aptitude for describing the most sensitive areas of the human psyche, a practical psychologist of the first order. You can manage and work with touchy issues that others wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.

RedRose

[mercuric]

well i certainly do have the psychology thing running in the family! dad is a professional psychologist and mom is a professional counselor.

I've been exposed to psychology since i was a little kid.. i used to read my dad's evaluations and reports all the time when i was in my single digits... i was a curious one and got into his files all the time! i used to always wonder as a kid "what do people do to acquire these problems!" and have vowed to keep myself sane ever since.

older now, i've found sanity in my own personal version of insanity :D

[the monk]

Hi Monk,

I want both. Continue here AND copy it into a separate thread to make it easier for others to find it.

RedRose
Okay RedRose,
While the collective consciousness euphoria was being experienced on Armistice Day, being the eleventh hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, 1918, a little known administrative task was being concluded in Washington D.C.
The original drawings/street plan of Washington D.C. were being transferred in a ceremony from the city commissioners to their new home, The Library of Congress for safe keeping.
Pierre-Charles L'Enfant, the architect, may have been an adept of sacred geometry, who may have convinced President Washington to incorperate sacred geometry into the streets and buildings of the new Capital City.
I dont wish to involve myself in this arguement, mainly as it's contraversal, yet many buildings and streets throughout the world have sacred geometry hidden within their structures, a recent building is the worlds tallest towers, Petronas towers, that incorperates 2 perfectly aligned grand squares in the blueprints, although the corners are rounded.
What does interest me is the letter that L'Enfant sent to George Washington explaining his ideas was dated September 11th 1789.
One hundred and twenty three years earlier, the Great Fire of London had distroyed much of the Capital.
Much of the Hermetic/Sacred Geometry tradition was studied by some of the leading minds of the country, Gresham college and the Royal Society provided a loosely based headquarters for people that included Isaac Newton and Sir Christopher Wren, the architect famous for St. Pauls Cathedral, the floor plan of which shows a marked resemblence to what we know of Solomons Temple.
Sir Christopher Wren had just returned from Paris and had gained King Charles 2nd's interest with his plans for London.
Incredibly the date of the bonding of this agreement between Wren and the King seems amazingly similiar to the bonding of ideas between George Washington and L'Enfant.
Both architects were proposing new plans for the Capitol, and it would seem that both wanted to include sacred geometry in the design........I may not write much about Washington D.C. but i am sure London has this ancient art hidden in the "old town".
The significant date that is important by "coincidence" to both Wren and L'Enfant is 11th September 1666 and 11th September 1789!
We also may have suspicions about sacred geometry being incorperated in the design of the Pentagon, and when the date of the start of construction ceremony is added, being 11th September 1941, it would be hard not to think that 11th September 2001 wasnt related in a symbolic cyclic way.
The First World War was not only connected to the Second World War and the rise of Communist USSR, but influenced many of the "Hurts" in the world today, 1918 saw the end of the Turkish Ottoman Empire that had ruled much of the Middle East for centuries.
During W.W.1. Britain had promised chunks of land to any Arab inhabitance of the Ottoman Empire to rise up and help fight in the war effort, sadly as the promises had been made to all who would listen, the same land was promised over and over again to different factions, hence the "British Mandate" given by the League of Nations, to bring these countries to a democratic conclusion become unworkable unfortunately.
In the worlds karma there are many missed times when healing should have been completed, and the cyclic pattern/nature of karma punches us in the teeth a century later.

[the monk]

Hi Everyone,
Thought i would leave document on attachment that shows most dates mentioned in the above "Story".
Sometimes it may seem i am more interested what the West's part is in the "hurts" of the world, this isnt true, yet being "Western" my need is for us in the West to always do the right thing, there is always many sides to an arguement.
The rules of karma seem that we have to look deeper into worlds hurts, of course we are horrified by senseless aggression but it will take us all to forgive past hurts, and move forward with a clean beginning.
I'm gonna leave my Stories for another time and place, i dont think its the right thread, and i dont want to hog space on a thread primarily about Pluto's Dance!

[RedRose]

Hello Monk,

I would like to move our conversation over here, away from Scorpios and sex, and tantra, into this more general Pluto thread.

Big hug. I have not meant to alarm you. I is a good witch, I is.

And my opinion hasn't changed about you. Here again is my take on your chart and you told me it was pretty spot on. I said:


Vesta on the Ascendant; a life consecrated to Vesta. Dear Knight, if you have not yet handed over your life to the Goddess in service, then zzzzzzzzzzzzz. End of story.

Scorpio Rising with Pluto as Ruler in Leo (barely) on Midheaven. Sudden fame. A Plutonic sort of person, a transition teacher, bridging between the Pluto in Leo and Pluto in Virgo folk, bringing in Aquarian/Pisces energy.

Scorio Rising means private, but there are ways to get famous and remain a bit cloaked (like using stupid screennames, like "MonK"). Mercury on midheaven; writer. Mercury in Virgo; researcher. Moon in Virgo; LOVES research. In 10th House, you will gain audience.

So many astrologers have Virgo Moons. Mustn't get stuck in your head though!

Heart awakening, or else! That is what I see in your chart. And with Chiron in Aquarius you are weird too. Your neighbors don't understand you? Or are you the ultimate urban hermit?

With a chart like yours (insert twilight zone music here) , life will do you, more than you do life.

RedRose

[RedRose]

Dear Monk,

If you agree with me about your scope and you wish to give your life into service of Vesta, or re-commit to Vesta, here are some tips.

1. Make a home altar and keep Vesta's flame burning there. This is an inner flame than must be watched and nurtured by your attention to it each day. An outer flame can be kept lit, except no potential fire hazard should be present. So I might recommend creating an artistic eternal fire using carnelians and such. Ask Vesta for guidance about her altar. She will lead you.

2. Study Hestia/Vesta, become an expert in her Way.

3. Offer yourself each day, into her service.

Bless you, Monk. Thank you for all the great good that you do. I wish you the happiest solstice.

RedRose

[the monk]

Hi RedRose,
Mis-understandings are always healed, thank you for your kind words, but i am less sure of my path than you, although pagan!
I tend to cover it by humour, also my focus leads me down many strange cutting edge paths.
My minstrel mentality is forcing me to examine the Osiris, Isis and Horus myth at the moment, being one of our most important myths....i cant leave it alone.
As i have said, on 18th September, 2011, the Persian Royal Star of Leo, Regulus, the watcher of the North, ruler of the angles of the Earth, changes signs from Leo to Virgo........and in many ancient beliefs/ religions, the Leo/Virgo connection is very important.....
Osirus took his sister, Isis as his consort, and they ruled Egypt, but he was cut down in his prime, being murdered by his brother Seth, who cut up his corpse and hid the parts all over Egypt.
Isis, in an epic search, found all the pieces except the phallas, she then joined all the pieces together using magical rites which brought Osirus back to life, although she had to provide him with an artificial phallas, by which she managed to get pregnant.
Afterwards Osiris departed into the Cosmic world of the dead, and Isis produced a son, Horus, who grew up to avenge his father's death by defeating Seth, thus becoming king of all Egypt......How are we surposed to decipher this? Dont ask me......but if im sure of anything in astrology, how to decipher this myth is very important to the karma of the world today, considering the minstrels tale is very old, vague, and probably has untrue parts of the tale added on.......Why do i ask you?......It seems to be a story of taboo,....I would ask a soul who has had great pain in this area, and has overcome this, thus having empathy....do not respond too quickly, i need your deepest psyche answer.
For me, this myth is very important, as it is a cyclic story that is kept in the collective consciousness memory.....let me explain!
The cycle connection was easily joined when the myths of ancient Egypt got mixed with the Christian faith after Jesus was crucified, and spread through the Middle East in the first few centuries A.D.
The early Christian church headed by Saint Mark, found converting Egyptian's relatively easy, for one reason, due to the fact that it resembled their own myths.
Mary and Jesus just overlaid the Isis/Horus myth.....Isis was the God Mother and Mary was the Mother of God.
In the early years, astrology incorperated Osiris/Isis into the Virgo/Leo Myth.....Please see very old thread of mine called " Grand Quintiles in October, from Egypt til now", which was written when i was very unsure of myself, but has many interesting connections.
Isis and all female goddesses such as Vesta, Ceres, were interwoven and mixed.
Even the church got involved, as they tried to stop pagan festivals, like December 25th, they gave in after a while and just transplanted a fictional Jesus birthday on top.
We can see how real events and myths and legends got mixed by the Royal Star of Leo, that can apply to the mythical King Feridun, but can also fit Osiris and Zeus/Hercules mythology.
I think all the joining of myths and legends points to a un-resolved world karma issue, that keeps getting replayed in a cyclic story deep within the human psyche, down the ages, yet now the minstrels story is too vague to fully understand. (My opinion).
In Esoteric astrology, Regulus is a conduit of Sirius........I wonder what changes, Regulus on the cusp will bring......Perhaps the Sphinx could tell us, with it's lion body and woman's head?
Although it is only my opinion, i feel this myth is central to world karma in 21st century, i hope we can decipher the puzzle!
Have a great holiday period, RedRose, and i wish you all that you would wish for yourself.....this myth burns a focus within me!....remember to look up that old thread of mine..."Grand Quintiles in October, from Egypt till now", yet it is not how i would write it today, having progressed.

[RedRose]

Fascinating stuff, as always Monk. I have been told that many themes in Christianity (virgin birth, madonna and child, Mary standing on a crescent moon, and more) can be linked back to Isis.


As to me knowing your path - actually I have no idea and truly, I rejoice in your success, however you define it; not how I might define it. I was just giving my take, as an astrologer, on Vesta conjunct your Ascendant, and wondering why someone with this aspect would mind my teaching tantra, which is one of Vesta's main gigs - yes?

So what is your take, as an astrologer, on this aspect? I sincerely wish to understand how this shows up in your life so I can learn more. I don't recall meeting someone with Vesta conjunct Rising, though I may have, so I have no reference.

My Vesta is in Gemini on the cusp of my 2nd House.

RedRose

[RedRose]

Heres some more interesting stuff about Vesta I found on the internet:

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Vesta21.4.html

Vesta's placement in the horoscope shows where and how we can be dedicated, where we can focus our energies to the greatest effect. But it also shows where, periodically, we have to withdraw and "recharge our batteries." If we don't, we will become drained, and even sick.
Vesta also has an effect on our sexuality, but it is not the raw, animal drive of Mars or Pluto. It is more of a reasoned choice, which is in tune with Vesta's affinity with the sign of Virgo.

Lenore Cantor told the following story in a lecture some years back. She was going to visit the late Charles Emerson and she got stuck between floors in his elevator. While she was waiting for the repair crew to arrive, Charles shouted down the elevator shaft: "Lenore, where's your Vesta?"


http://www.btinternet.com/~seamaid/asteroids_in_astrology.htm

In the symbolism of the astrological wheel, Vesta corresponds to the Ascendant, which relates to self-identity and autonomy. Astrologically, Vesta represents the ability to focus energy and experience wholeness of self. Vesta's cycle takes the individual through the transformative process of the newal of their virginity (essential self). She teaches the wisdom that periodic retreat from others in order to cleanse and regenerate the self can lead to a clarity of vision and purpose.

[RedRose]

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/alex.shtml
JANUARY 2006



by Alex Miller-Mignone
This winter Pluto moves into conjunction with the Galactic Center for the first time in almost 250 years. This quarter-millennial summit between the outer planetary ambassador of our system and the very heart of the spiral galaxy of which we are a part always heralds important transformations in our cultural attitudes and the ways in which we interpret and incorporate ideas of religion, literature and science, or higher knowledge.

Pluto will be making two important stations conjunct the super-massive Black Hole which powers our galaxy, and lies at its center, and will activate this point for more than 18 months, until the autumn of 2007. Periods of peak activation coincide with Pluto’s passage of the 26th degree of Sagittarius from February 5 through May 24, 2006 (station retrograde on March 29), December 5 through 31, 2006 (including a triple conjunction of Sun, Pluto and the Galactic Center on December 19), and July 15 through October 29, 2007 (station direct on September 7). At these times the seeds of the next great cultural revolutions are planted, souls with particularly strong attunement to these energies are incarnated or disincarnate, and metaphors emerge in current events which provide insights into the upcoming changes.

Historically Pluto’s contact with the Galactic Center has evoked important developments in humanity’s relationship with literature and the arts, abstract thought, education and reasoning, the dissemination, codification or collation of scientific or legalistic knowledge, and important spiritual movements. Leaders and innovators in these fields are born or come into prominence at these periods, seminal works are published, humanity’s intellectual reach is extended.

Pluto’s passage through this region in the late 30's CE highlighted the arts and religion, bringing the birth of noted Roman poet Lucan in 39, whose works on the Roman civil war of Julius Caesar’s time are still read by classicists. This was followed closely in 40 by the establishment of the first Coptic Orthodox Church in Alexandria, Egypt, supposedly by Mark the Evangelist, of Gospel fame, who became the first Pope of Alexandria. Although the Coptics never gained control of the Church at large, they influenced it greatly with their creation of the Nicene Creed, and continue as a sect to this day, the oldest continuously-organized Christian denomination.

Lawgiving was the theme of Pluto’s passage over the Galactic Center in the late 520's and early 530's CE. In 529 the Roman Emperor Justinian, who would later make Christianity the official religion of the empire, issued the Corpus Juris Civilis, a seminal compilation of fundamental works on Roman jurisprudence which remained the leading legal authority and reference guide for over a thousand years. In 530 Justinian followed this up by the appointment of commissioners to codify Roman law, which later became the “Digest.” In 532 he began construction on Byzantium’s Hagia Sophia, the Church of the Holy Wisdom, one of the most famous Christian churches of the ancient and medieval world, later a mosque, and now a museum.

Pluto’s transit in the 1020's CE brought another focus on religion, with the disappearance of Al-Hakim bi-Amur Allah, 6th Fatimid Caliph of Egypt, while on pilgrimage. The Druze sect of Ismaili Muslims presumed his assumption to heaven, and began to worship him as divine, the first caliph to be so honored.

Pluto at the Galactic Center in the late 1260s CE saw the publication of English genius Roger Bacon’s “Opus Majus,” his life work, encapsulating virtually all of medieval man’s knowledge on grammar, mathematics, optics, alchemy, astronomy and astrology, physics and philosophy. In 1270 Thomas Aquinas produced his “Summa Theologiae,” which still stands as the leading reference on the theological teachings of the time, and was considered by generations of Catholic scholars as the second point of reference for theological questions of all types, after the Bible itself.

In 1269 the great Indian poet, philosopher and master-teacher Vedanta Desika was born, the second name in Vaishnavism, one of the principal divisions of Hinduism. The birth of more spiritual luminaries followed in 1270: Jacob ben Asher, Spanish rabbi and religious writer (commentaries on the Torah and “Arba’ah Turim,” a codex of Jewish law); Italian clergyman Michael of Cesena (a Franciscan advocate of ecclesiastical poverty); as well as important literary figures: Italian scholar Marsilius of Padua (“Defensor Pacis”); Italian poet Cino da Pistoia (a contemporary of Dante); and Chinese poet and dramatist Ma Zhiyuan ( a principal developer of the sanqu literary form of poetry).

Pluto’s passage in the mid-1510's CE brought perhaps its most dramatic manifestations to date, and the birth of luminaries who would carry their light well into the High Renaissance. In 1513 Scottish firebrand and reformer John Knox was born, later instrumental in the introduction of Presbyterianism into Scotland. Born a Catholic, his conversion to Protestantism led to an 18-month stint as a French galley slave; after studying under Calvin in Geneva, Knox returned to Scotland to oppose the regency of Mary of Guise, mother to Mary Queen of Scots, and his spirit animated the Protestant rising that effectively crippled Mary’s power and authority, turning Scotland into an ally and vassal state of Elizabeth Tudor’s England.

In 1514 English scholar John Cheke was born, later first Regius Professor of Greek at Cambridge University. Tutor to Edward VI, he also instructed Lady Jane Grey and Elizabeth I, and was a leading proponent of formal education for women, a very enlightened position for the time.

In 1515 St. Teresa of Avila was born, later a Carmelite nun and influential Spanish poet. Her four-part work on “Devotion” remains a classic of Christian mysticism . Also in 1515 Lucas Cranach the Younger was born, a German Renaissance painter very influential and popular in his time, specializing in allegories of mythic and religious themes.

1516 saw the death of Dutch painter Hieronymous Bosch and the birth of English chronicler John Foxe. Bosch, famous for his iconographic portrayals of demons and damnation, depicted a fanciful but gripping vision of hell, but the hell which Foxe chronicled was all too real—he is best remembered for his “Book of Martyrs,” which details the burnings of Protestants during the reign of England’s “Bloody” Mary I.

This period of course also witnessed the gestation of the Reformation, sparked by Martin Luther’s protest; his nailing of the 95 Theses to the door of Wittenberg Cathedral occurred in 1517 as Pluto progressed beyond the Galactic Center and into Capricorn.

Pluto’s most recent conjunction with the Galactic Center, in the late 1750's and early 1760's CE, coincided with a flowering of Enlightenment thought, including in 1762 Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s publication of “The Social Contract,” a philosophy so influential to the authors of the American and French Revolutions. 1759 was perhaps the seminal year of this passage, bringing the births of famed Scottish poet Robert Burns (author of the poem and song “Auld Lang Syne,” among others); German writer, historian, dramatist and philosopher Friedrich Schiller (author of “Don Carlos” and “Maria Stuart”); and the deaths of French mathematician Pierre Maupertuis (the principle of least action, and a precursor to evolution’s theory of natural selection), Swiss mathematician Nicholaus Bernoulli (probability theory), and German composer Georg Friedrich Handel (“Water Music” and “Messiah”). Also in 1759, Voltaire published “Candide,” the British Museum in London, possibly the most famous museum in the world, first opened its doors, and outside Philadelphia the Quakers founded Germantown Academy, America’s oldest nonsectarian school.

What will this passage of Pluto over the Galactic Center evoke? We can only wait and see. Some things will be clear as they emerge in the current events of the next two years, but the fruits of the seeds that are planted, the children born now, will not be apparent for a generation.

In the USA, expect a more serious, if bitter, debate over the Constitution and the relative powers of the three branches of government, with a special emphasis on the judiciary, and the role of religion in government. The PATRIOT Act will be an important test of the changes that will be made in the law during Pluto’s time here; it is interesting that the House’s recent one-month prolonging of the current Act is set to expire precisely as Pluto moves to the degree of the Galactic Center. Will we choose “safety” over freedom, and will the government’s powers to observe and direct our lives be increased, or will “liberty” trump fear? Will the people reclaim their sovereign power or continue to allow the slide into fascism represented by the unholy alliance of corporatist wealth with fundamentalist intolerance?

[RedRose]

http://stars.metawire.com/ericfrancis/eric.html

Pluto Crossing the Galactic Core. Though this is not exact until the last week of 2006, there is an exceptionally close alignment between Pluto and the Galactic Core (in late Sagittarius) during the first week of spring. Specifically, Pluto stations retrograde at 26 degrees Sagittarius and 45 arc minutes, just 10 arc minutes (one-sixth of a degree) from the Galactic Core. Pluto will be within one degree of the core from February through mid-May, for most of that time sitting stationary.

But the station itself is March 20. This comes simultaneously with a total solar eclipse on the Aries Point (see below), as well as the progressions in the Presidential Inauguration chart going off (part two -- part one was the last week of October, see below). This group of events, clustered together, will be the stunning sequel of what brought us the Scooter Libby indictment, only I think it's reasonable to expect something a little more satisfying. Pluto on the Galactic Core will be humanity's biggest push in a long, long while in the direction of, well, being humanitarian.

The GC teaches giving up our judgments, seeing the big picture, and learning Lesson One taught by the Core: as within, so without. Or, as the Course in Miracles would put it, God/Goddess is not outside yourself. Pluto crossing this point is one of the last vital thresholds of the Pluto in Sagittarius era, which takes us back to the early 1990s when the world started to move in the undeniable direction of Jihad, be it Christian or Muslim.

Pluto on the Core will evoke all the true evolutionary material involved with the violence on the planet and the prejudices that make it inevitable. If we were to give up the judgments, the violence would have no basis of support. Warlords rely on anger, hatred and the sense of victimization to get anywhere with their ideas. But the energy of the Galactic Core is so strong as to be inaccessible to many people.

[Aidron]

I'm fairly mezmerized by monk's chart, what with the inverted and upright pentagrams in it. :foh:

As for me, I am Pluto libran generational kid, along with Uranus and Neptune both in sagittarius. Not quite sure how I'd interpret that for myself at the moment or my generation... (sluggish brain day for me), so I will have to give it some thought.

[RedRose]

Yes, Monk's ch