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View Full Version : Come to church they have lots of candy there :(



Winter_wolf
October 12th, 2005, 05:40 PM
My daughter came home today all excited. "Mom! Mom! can I go to Meghan's church?!! They have lots of candy there!!!" I'm a pagan and my husband is nothing. We chose to not raise our daughter in any religion except some buddhist teachings until she was older and could make her own decisions on her path. Does anyone see a problem with this? I'm not exactly tolerant of most christian churches, expecially one that can't respect others beliefs and constantly try to convert people. Seems pretty crappy they try to bribe kids via candy to get them in the church. If some guy next door say "Hey come in my house I have lots of candy" to a kid the police would be knocking on his door. :bastard:

Ceres
October 12th, 2005, 06:21 PM
I have the same problem with the bible camps in the summer. I suppose they are just trying to drum up business, but really.....if you have to bribe people to join your religion, how great can it be? My kids have asked to go to the bible camps and I tell the little ones they are not for us. My older daughter is old enough to understand the word INDOCTRINATION and that we will not allow them to do that to our kids no matter what they are offering.

MalPixie
October 12th, 2005, 06:32 PM
I know of a church that use to do something like this on Halloween
They would throw a big party with games and candy and stuff so all the kids would want to go. I went once just to see what they were doing. They gave away candy and prizes and had sign ups for sunday school and bible camps and of course a place for donations and things like raffles to raise money. I think they made more money then they spent to give things away. I don't know I think it is all stupid too that churches work like a business and make lots of money off people cause they feel they need to give them some even when they are struggling. Why do people do this????? I just don't get it!

riverchilde
October 16th, 2005, 08:07 PM
I've known churches that I could imagine having a halloween party without trying to get religious about it. There is a catholic church here that allows people to use their facilities for zen center meditations, labyrinth building gatherings, and other not-specifically-christian things, without being weird or preachy... In some cases a church is just a good, safe place to have room for a lot of kids to get together, rather than being out in the street at night (don't get me wrong, i'm not christian, or down on trick or treating). Then again, though, many churches are pushy and preachy... it's a tough call. One doesn't want to be unnecessarily intolerant of those of another belief system, but then again, candy would probably be a powerful brainwashing agent...

Ceres
October 16th, 2005, 08:24 PM
When I was a La Leche League Leader, we often held meetings in church basements or meeting rooms and it was wonderful to be able to meet in a safe central place. You can usually tell if a gathering is going tot be the preachy sort because they are put on by the church itself, not another organisation outside the church.

Winter_wolf
October 19th, 2005, 06:52 PM
One doesn't want to be unnecessarily intolerant of those of another belief system, but then again, candy would probably be a powerful brainwashing agent...

I have tried to be tolerant of this little girl and her family... glad they are extremely happy in their religous beliefs, more power to them. But my daughter has told them "we are not religous people..." and now they are really pushing. Seems like every day it's something different... now it's bible study, it's great cause they give you lots of cake afterwards. Cake and candy to a kid is like offering an adult money... it's a form of bribery plain and simple. I knew I should of instructed my daughter to tell them we are catholics, then they would leave us alone:tongueout

Chibi-Fallon
October 19th, 2005, 08:11 PM
When I went to church as a young one we got candy. It was awesome.
Frankly if the kid is over 8 they should be able to handle it.
And I'm glad my nonreligious parents let me go with my friends and didn't freak out. I learned a lot about the Bible, the people were nice, I made lots of friends. It was a good experience for me.
I never really believed in any of it but it didn't really matter, you drink the punch and giggle in the back. We got candy in sunday school for knowing things about the lessons and went into history and how life was back them more then stuff about Jesus (I think they tend to push that stuff on the younger kids).
Would you have this issue if they were going to Temple or Mosque and they gave them candy?

Sequoia
October 19th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Uhh... sounds like they're trying to include your kid in their kid's social activities.

If you're that uncomfortable with it, or you feel like they're "attacking" you with their religion, then just don't let your daughter play with that family. How about having a chat with the girl's parents, and explain that you're happy with the religion you have at home?

Or, heck, you could even let her go. She'd learn about another religion, eat candy, and play with other kids. Expanding her mind and her grasp of world religions... imagine that.

Heck, I went to a Baptist Bible Study when I was younger. Cake, candy, etc. Was I brainwashed? Nope. I sat through stories and ate sweets. When I was interested in Christianity years later, I spent time learning about it. And years after that, I explored many other forms of religion and spirituality.

In other words, I don't think it would hurt her, especially if you're providing her with concepts of what spirituality is in general. She will see Christianity as simply another colour in the rainbow of religions.

Closeting her and forbidding it will likely make the situation worse. In the end, it's your personal choice, but you really should ask yourself... Is she really going to come to any harm? Or is this simply a grudge against a particular religion that you have?

LadyTrinity
October 20th, 2005, 12:56 AM
wow a church that gives something?
Our churches take not give. They pass around the money baskets while almost every person shells out 50$ here 100$ there. :collapse:

Shanti
October 20th, 2005, 01:10 AM
Ok I have a beef...not with the religion parts but with the darn sweets!!
My responce...are you gonna pay my kids dental bill?
What about the diabetic kid? Kinda a tease aint it? Thats real nice! ~sarcasm~


Sorry..I am a really anti garbage concerning my kids kinda person!
There is to much junk out there already!
Are there any grown ups at that church?

Ok I'm done..carry on. :)

Ceres
October 20th, 2005, 09:04 AM
Lets not forget this is the classic "sugar trick". When teaching my kids about friendship, I have pointed out that people who truly like them for who they are will not try to bribe them to spend time with them. Not everyone who wants to give them things has bad motives, but on the other hand, if they do feel they have to bribe my kids with candy or other treats to get their time and attention, their motives should at least be scrutinized. It could just be laziness on the part of the giver of candy - it doesnt take much time or expense and gets the attention of the person you give it to- but then again it might be something else. All in all, it makes for a good lesson in social dynamics for older kids able to understand it. Younger kids need to be protected from those who would buy their friendship.

BrigidMoon
October 20th, 2005, 09:32 AM
This is kind of tough for me.

I mean, kids want to have friends and they want candy.

Pretty age appropriate behavior.

Any religion will have food in some kind of fashion.

I'd explain to your kid that there is more to going to church than getting candy. Also, let her know that sometimes just because someone is offering candy doesn't mean we should take it especially from strangers.

Maybe that will help.

If she still wants to go because her friend is going, then, that's another issue.

Mouse
October 20th, 2005, 10:10 AM
I wouldn't let her go. Young kids are very impressionable and the biggest tactic the church uses is fear. She may not be able to choose her own religion later if she is afraid of going to hell.
What she will see is this. She went to the house of god with really nice people who gave her candy and were kind enough to warn her that if she wasn't part of the church she'd go to hell. She wont see a clever businessman. I've even seen kids my age sucked in by this kind of thing.

And they do do that. I don't have anything against the church, but i think it is something for adults, people who can decide for themselves without being pressured.

just my 2 cents tho

Sun Sprite
October 20th, 2005, 10:10 AM
Sorry you are dealing with this. As a woman who has beent o more churches than I like to think about, I know most of them had inappropriate males of all ages (from age 3 to 93), so caution shold be used with young girls going without trusted adult supervision. At the church with the 93 year old, I acutallly spoke to the preacher and was laughed, the old man had been there 60+ years, and paid half his salary, so he wouldn't say anything to him.

Just be sure if you let her go, that she is totally aware, the males have no right to touch her or make fun of her!

Yes, I can understand a kid wanting to be with their friends.

Berst wishes.

SerenityMoon
October 20th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Uhh... sounds like they're trying to include your kid in their kid's social activities.

If you're that uncomfortable with it, or you feel like they're "attacking" you with their religion, then just don't let your daughter play with that family. How about having a chat with the girl's parents, and explain that you're happy with the religion you have at home?

Or, heck, you could even let her go. She'd learn about another religion, eat candy, and play with other kids. Expanding her mind and her grasp of world religions... imagine that.

Heck, I went to a Baptist Bible Study when I was younger. Cake, candy, etc. Was I brainwashed? Nope. I sat through stories and ate sweets. When I was interested in Christianity years later, I spent time learning about it. And years after that, I explored many other forms of religion and spirituality.

In other words, I don't think it would hurt her, especially if you're providing her with concepts of what spirituality is in general. She will see Christianity as simply another colour in the rainbow of religions.

Closeting her and forbidding it will likely make the situation worse. In the end, it's your personal choice, but you really should ask yourself... Is she really going to come to any harm? Or is this simply a grudge against a particular religion that you have?

Bravo, Sequoia. My thoughts exactly.

Winter_wolf
October 20th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Closeting her and forbidding it will likely make the situation worse. In the end, it's your personal choice, but you really should ask yourself... Is she really going to come to any harm? Or is this simply a grudge against a particular religion that you have?

Honestly I wasn't thrilled about her friendship with this girl to begin with. Last year in 1st grade this girl was always in trouble... generally mean to the other students... my daughter did not like her at all. Now this year they are friends... which I was ok with at first... thinking that the kid had changed. But she hasn't, my daughter still tells me about bad things she does like mouthing off to teachers, pushing kids heads into drinking fountains, calling kids losers, etc. I had her over to my house, she was polite to me but when she had to call and ask her mom to go play at the neighbor boys house she was an absolute monster to her mom. Screaming at her in the phone, big old temper tantrum... both my daughter and I just stood there flabbergasted at the way this girl talked to her mother. :(

It was shortly before the incident with the temper tantrum that the church bugging occurred and it has escalated to almost badgering by this girl to get my daughter to go. Just the other day she called to get my daughter to go with her to bible study... I said no, one hour later the girl called back again asking for her to go to bible study... Its things like that and the girls behavior in general that really makes me want to shelter my daughter from this.

My daughter is not ready for a religion yet. We have talks about different ones but I really don't see a lot of understanding from her yet and I feel she would be highly impressionable to fear tactics used by a lot of christian sects. I know it took me years to shake the 'your going to hell' fear tactic used by the catholics... I just don't want my daughter to have to go through that. :( I might be a bit over protective of her on the religious front, I just want so spare her the confusion and anger that I went through when I initially broke away from catholism... I want her to have a clean slate to work from when it comes time for her to choose a path. My plan was to make sure she is educated in all the different religions available and she could make a choice based off that.

Sun Sprite
October 20th, 2005, 04:14 PM
With the girls behavior like that, I am sure others would understand if you used the behavior as a reason for your daughter to associate less with her. Tlak to her about how she would feel if her friend suddenly started doing those things to her that she is doing to other kids, and ask her if she really wants to be known by the other kids as likely to do the same thing.
Best Wishes

Shanti
October 20th, 2005, 04:34 PM
May I ask, how old is your daughter?

Winter_wolf
October 20th, 2005, 04:37 PM
May I ask, how old is your daughter?

She's 7

Sequoia
October 20th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Honestly I wasn't thrilled about her friendship with this girl to begin with. Last year in 1st grade this girl was always in trouble... generally mean to the other students... my daughter did not like her at all. Now this year they are friends... which I was ok with at first... thinking that the kid had changed. But she hasn't, my daughter still tells me about bad things she does like mouthing off to teachers, pushing kids heads into drinking fountains, calling kids losers, etc. I had her over to my house, she was polite to me but when she had to call and ask her mom to go play at the neighbor boys house she was an absolute monster to her mom. Screaming at her in the phone, big old temper tantrum... both my daughter and I just stood there flabbergasted at the way this girl talked to her mother. :(
In this case, I'd cut off all unnecessary contact with the kid and her family. The church issue is the least of your worries, but the sound of that! I'd be more concerned that your daughter learn such horrid disrespect, than for her to hear about Christianity.


It was shortly before the incident with the temper tantrum that the church bugging occurred and it has escalated to almost badgering by this girl to get my daughter to go. Just the other day she called to get my daughter to go with her to bible study... I said no, one hour later the girl called back again asking for her to go to bible study... Its things like that and the girls behavior in general that really makes me want to shelter my daughter from this.
Yup. Kid has issues. Parents have issues. Avoid them like the plague. And if they don't leave you alone? Report it. Your daughter definately doesn't need that kind of influence.


My daughter is not ready for a religion yet. We have talks about different ones but I really don't see a lot of understanding from her yet and I feel she would be highly impressionable to fear tactics used by a lot of christian sects. I know it took me years to shake the 'your going to hell' fear tactic used by the catholics... I just don't want my daughter to have to go through that. :( I might be a bit over protective of her on the religious front, I just want so spare her the confusion and anger that I went through when I initially broke away from catholism... I want her to have a clean slate to work from when it comes time for her to choose a path. My plan was to make sure she is educated in all the different religions available and she could make a choice based off that.
I can understand your fear of it, if they're the sort of church who rants and raves about hell, brimstone, and hating everybody around them. I just also have known kind churches, that were truly spiritual places, not brainwashing stations. Perhaps a visit one sunday with both of you might be in order?

I read your lower post - at 7, your daughter may or may not be ready for a survey of the *basic* ideas of world religions. A girl I take care of, same age, has been telling me spiritual mythos of her own making and others since the age of four... though in all honesty, she's pretty amazing with that sort of stuff. You should see her crystal collection ;)

Just like with any other subject, some kids are interested, and some kids aren't. In all likelyhood, your daughter is more interested in the kids and the sweets than she is the religion... and she probably wouldn't even pay attention to that part ;)

Something you might consider doing is building a little "religious" library for your daughter. There are MANY excellent books at the easiest reading and age levels on most religions in the world. There are some really excellent ones out there... but the most important one is you, of course. ;)

I know you're likely afraid of "forcing" your daughter to conform to your religion, that you don't want to make her believe what you do, just because. You probably had some craptacular experiences as a child in just such a manner. The thing to remember, though, is that if you don't give her any kind of beliefs, she may be interested in taking up the first one she hears. If she's never heard mommy and daddy talking about what "God" is to them, she might be easily drawn into other paths, reguardless of their safety. Giving her early exposure to your own faith isn't brainwashing - it's giving her a very valuable tool, a basic understanding of what spirituality is, that she can build on as she gets older.

You also might try taking her for a visit to your local Unitarian Universalist, if she's still interested in religion. They're some awesome people. AND you'd have the bonus of telling that other kid's parents that you and your daughter already attend church. ;)

Gee... sorry for it being such a long post! :lol: But in the end, I'd say this: tell your daughter what you believe "god" is, remind her that everybody has a different way of seeing "god", and that you're happy to answer if she has questions. Perhaps also explain that while you'd love for her to visit a church, you don't think she's safe with the other little girl, and that the way her friend acts is VERY rude. Above all else, don't punish her for asking about religion. Rebellion for the spite of it is the last thing that you want.

But... yeah. I think this is less about religion, and more about hanging out with a rebellious nasty little friend. :hugz:

Shanti
October 20th, 2005, 06:32 PM
At 7, does she really understand the difference between a good for me friend and a friend thats not worth your time? I would think not.

I personally would really work at getting the 2 apart. This girl doesnt sound like a good friend, meaning good 'for' your daughter. The examples of her behavior are not what your daughter needs at this gentle stage of growth she is in.

Maybe its time for mom to start teaching, how to know when a person is good 'for' you as a friend and how to pick friends wisely and so on.

This is the beginning of her development of how she perceives other people in relation to her own self image.

Just my 2 cents. :)

starfire
October 20th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Wow, it sounds like there are several issues calling out to you here from what I am reading, and that you may need to look at them yourself closely before you can make a decission about your daughter, her friend, and religion.

So with the religion, is it really the cake or candy? When I was little I went to my friends youth group, they had pot luck dinner with dessert. Nothing I might have different than at home. I was Catholic, she was presbyterian, I liked the way they taught, read a verse and talk about what it meant, not read, memorize like I had to (we never got treats either)...I have also gone to other religious groups (including Pagan, Buddhist, Morman, Lutherin, and Methodist ) as well. I can learn from many of them, and I do. My parents while bringing us up Catholic, never put down anyone else or what they believe in, perhaps that is why I am so open minded. My kids now have taken other avenues to what they believe. If you truely want her to learn about other religions and make her own choice, why not let her be exposed to something now why she hasn't had all that other influence that says one is better than another. It would give you a chance to talk to her about what she heard or learned, and it would let her know what you and daddy feel about things. How they might be different or the same...It takes looking inside yourself and your beliefs to answer these questions, but it also makes what you believe stronger for her.

As far as the little girl goes, I would let that child and your own, know that her behavior is not acceptable in your house, so if they want to play, she will have to act approprietly (something her parents haven't taught her) while in your house, then when she acts up, or is rude to her mom or anyone else, she is shown the door and asked to leave. Then let your daughter know if they play it will be at your house, that gives you the control. Be sure to let her know that the little girls behavior at school is wrong, and you hope she is not acting that way either.

If you don't want her eating sweets, educate her on what happens when someone eats to many sweets, and how bad to many can be. Also use this chance to let her know sometimes strangers might offer her something, sweets, gum or a present, and that they might be trying to trick her and harm her. She should always ask you and Daddy or the person taking care of her first.

When my baby died, and I had to tell his 3 year old brother what happened, I really had to look within to what I really believe in order to answer his questions. It was hard.

Winter_wolf
October 20th, 2005, 08:14 PM
Thanks for your posts on this, I appreciate it.:)

I had noticed behavioral issues with my daughter prior to having Mehgan over. She was very disrespetful of me and refused to help out around the house. I was at a loss to why her behavior change we haven't done anything different at home... then Mehgan came over and the proverbial lightbulb came on. I had a long talk with my daughter after Mehgan went home... she had gone over to Mehgan's house a couple times and admitted that Mehgan acted like that towards her mom quite frequently at home. She has been behaving better since the talks but has had a few relapses since then... the pestering by her friend to take her to church and bible study was just the icing on the cake. I have explained to her why I don't want her hanging out with that girl or going to her religous functions but at 7 retention skills are not always what they should be.

As far as the church functions go... my daughter only sees the cake and candy part of it... and with her being so impressionable I don't want her going there.

I was raised roman catholic and sent to catholic schools... I absolutely hated it. I was told I was going to burn in hell at age 8 by a nun for questioning the bible... from there it was all down hill. My friend ended up marrying a fundimentalist christian and it totally changed her behavior... we went from bestfriends of nearly 30 years to not talking to each other anymore.:( My experience with most christians I've come across has not been good... either I'm told I'm going to burn in hell, my beliefs are false or they try to convert me.

I purchased a couple books today from amazon about teaching buddhism to children. I think I'm going to take that route with my daughter. I figure some buddhist teachings are a good place to start with her. It's a year or two earlier than I had hoped but I feel now it's time to start teaching her some basics. We've already talked about karma a bit she has a decent understanding of it... guess we'll work from there.

Sequoia
October 20th, 2005, 10:53 PM
That sounds like a wonderful plan. Even if one doesn't follow strictly the religious philosophies of Buddhism, the lessons, growth and self-discipline (as well as self-awareness) are invaluable.

Don't be timid with reguards to your beliefs around her. You cannot hurt her, especially because of your own experiences. :hugz:

And yeah... I still would definately tell her parents that you don't want the girls to have anything to do with one another. If her parents' lack of discipline is influencing your daughter's behaviour, it's gone too far.

Jeeze, some parents...:2G:

Haerfest Leah
October 22nd, 2005, 02:45 PM
Churches resorting to bribery, how sad. Sounds like this church isn't doing anything for this little girl, sounds like a bad influence to me too.

starfire
October 22nd, 2005, 05:29 PM
Churches resorting to bribery, how sad. Sounds like this church isn't doing anything for this little girl, sounds like a bad influence to me too.

Our church offered juice and cookies, the classes were after school, so this was just a snack and break for the kids. It had nothing to do with bribery, many of these kids are latch key kids anyway, so at least they had a safe place to go and something in their tummy. Mind you I have no clue of this particular case, and unless the mom goes over to the church she really won't be able to see what really is happening. I congratulate her for being involved in her childs life.

Just because the child "says they have cake or cookies", doesn't necessarily mean it is a bribe, just something for after or before class. Like I said my friends church served a meal and dessert pot luck style before studying the bible. They need to eat anyway, and this way the parents were invoved as well as the kids.

In the case where the daughter is being taught manners that aren't very good, you will find this in a large amount of kids now days due to the lack of disapline and parents being involved in their childs lives. Thank goodness this mom is involved and is seeing that the influence of the other child is causeing a problem, therefore she can teach her own child that certain behaviors are not acceptable and act on them.