Goddess, or Fictional Female?

[Darkwater Stone]

Queen Mab, character in Arthur lore. Real, or fake goddess?

[Agaliha]

I'm Undecided.
For one I don't know enough about Queen Mab and Faeries and things in that area of topic to say definitivly.
I do now that many fictional/mythological characters do have a past linked to a Goddess or are at least based off a Goddess. Take Morgan le Fay, many believe her to be a form of the Morrigan. Some honor Morgan le Fay. I don't see anything wrong with that. Same with Nimue [Lady of the Lake]. I have even read essays with Calypso and Circe that show their connections to Goddesses and make a pretty good case for them being a Goddess or based off one. From Perseus Project Essays: Calpyso & Circe (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/classes/AL1.html).
I think all of them have kernels of Goddess-ness.
I guess it's for you to decided...? Research, meditate and see what you learn.

[Philosophia]

Isn't all mythology based upon fables, stories,etc..? From this perspective, couldn't we assume that Mab might be a Goddess?

[Meadhbh]

Although Queen Mab has no direct references in Arthurian Legend, she is still a Queen of the Fae and worth investigation. In the Celtic tradition, Queen Mab was also known as Queen Meadhbh. Meadhbh means intoxicating one and it was said that Mab gave this blood red wine to all of her consorts. Mead wine represented menstrual blood which was considered the wine of women's wisdom. In Warwickshire, the word Mabled came to mean led astray by the faeries or elves. In Cymric Mab was defined as meaning small child. Additionally, Mab meant Drunk Woman and Queen Wolf. Mythologically, Meadhbh was the Queen of Connact; the warrior queen of the Ulster Cycle. She was the combined mother/warrior aspect of the Triple Goddess. The Pagan festival of Mabon was celebrated in her honor each year at the Autumnal Equinox. During the festival, those wishing to be King were not endorsed unless Mab invited them to drink of her mead wine. This ensured that the male king would be well versed in feminism and women's mysteries. Queen Mab has enticed many to write about her in fiction. Earl Spencer wrote The Fairy Queen in which she appeared. One of the most notable references to Mab is in the speech by Mercutio in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

[Agaliha]

Meadhbh, you reminded me of something I came across before.

Ekwona
“Horse Goddess.” Another possible name would be Medhuna “Intoxicator” (“Goddess of Mead”). This is a fairly well-reconstructed name found in Ireland (Medb), Gaul (Meduna) and India (Ma:dhavi: ).

From a great site that details the Proto-Indo-Euro Dieties and religion
The rest is here really interesting too] :
http://www.ceisiwrserith.com/pier/deities.htm#10

I also mentioned it [PIE Dietes] in this thread: Do they all come from a few?? (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=104210)

Now it's not proof undeniable that Mab is a Goddess...but this shows that there is a link to the name and even meaning of the name to one of the first Dieties that later became all the Dieties we know today.

[Seren_]

I don't think Mab's a goddess...or she might be, but the literary figure that's been preserved is probably far removed from who she really was.

I'm skeptical about whether there really is a connection between Mab and the Irish Medb. It seems their connection is more based on assumption because they have similar names. Medb was never really a fae figure in the stories I'm familiar with from the Ulster cycle, the evidence points more towards a possible sovereignty goddess. Perhaps she evolved into a fae figure in later literature, I don't know, but on the face of it there seems to be little connection between their characters, if you see what I mean.

In Warwickshire, the word Mabled came to mean led astray by the faeries or elves.

I've never heard of this, but I'm intrigued. I live in Warwickshire :)

[RubyRose]

All I know, is that Queen Mab, is linked to Ireland's, Queen Meadhbh. From what I've read, Queen Meadhbh was a Warrior Queen, not unlike The Morrigan, who is thought to be the inspiration of Queen Mab.

There is also thought that she may be the human incarnation of the Goddess Mab but I can't say with any certainty...

see: http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Kings&Queens/Celtic/Queens/Connaught/Medb/Page1.htm

Bendithion,
RubyRose

[RubyRose]

Also found this site: http://www.mcmahonsofmonaghan.org/legend_ulaid.html

:)

[IvyWitch]

I said no, because I don't consider the characters in the Arthurian lore themselves to be deities. Yes, some of them came from/were inspired by real Deities, but Mab herself from the stories, and even Morgan le Fey to me are not Goddesses.

[Silver Water]

I'm undecided on whether or not Queen Maub is an actual deity or not. I always think of her as more of a story-figure, but then she could be an actual deity. Like I said, undecided.

[Meadhbh]

All I know, is that Queen Mab, is linked to Ireland's, Queen Meadhbh. From what I've read, Queen Meadhbh was a Warrior Queen, not unlike The Morrigan, who is thought to be the inspiration of Queen Mab.

There is also thought that she may be the human incarnation of the Goddess Mab but I can't say with any certainty...

see: http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Kings&Queens/Celtic/Queens/Connaught/Medb/Page1.htm

Bendithion,
RubyRose

There is a lot of similarities between Meadhbh and the Morrigan. Keeping that in mind it seems a typical action of the Morrigan to side with Cuchulain. When he and the red branch warriors were pitted againist Meadhbh and her Connacht forces. I'm not sure about this but, I think I read somewhere that Mab often caused madness, perhaps that is related to the Morrigan and her causing the battle-frenzy.

[RubyRose]

There is a lot of similarities between Meadhbh and the Morrigan. Keeping that in mind it seems a typical action of the Morrigan to side with Cuchulain. When he and the red branch warriors were pitted againist Meadhbh and her Connacht forces. I'm not sure about this but, I think I read somewhere that Mab often caused madness, perhaps that is related to the Morrigan and her causing the battle-frenzy.

It's a possibility. :)

[MoonDragn]

I chalk this one up to undecided or rather, unknown and no way to tell. She was the queen of the fairies in the legends, thats all we really know from the stories.

[AlAskendir]

Queen Mab, character in Arthur lore. Real, or fake goddess?

Real Goddess, original (Welsh) spelling = 'Maeve', Goddess of the Feyr, of magick, of glamorie, and many other things. Some indication of a link to the name of the month 'May', and thus to Beltane as 'May eve'.

[AlAskendir]

I'm Undecided.
For one I don't know enough about Queen Mab and Faeries and things in that area of topic to say definitivly.
I do now that many fictional/mythological characters do have a past linked to a Goddess or are at least based off a Goddess. Take Morgan le Fay, many believe her to be a form of the Morrigan. Some honor Morgan le Fay. I don't see anything wrong with that. Same with Nimue [Lady of the Lake]. I have even read essays with Calypso and Circe that show their connections to Goddesses and make a pretty good case for them being a Goddess or based off one. From Perseus Project Essays: Calpyso & Circe (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/classes/AL1.html).

I don't know where the geneology this guy is using came from, but be aware that it is not the only one. There is another (one that resonates better with me and my beliefs) which states that Circe is the daughter of Hermes and Hecate......and thus she is indeed a Goddess.

[ap Dafydd]

Real Goddess, original (Welsh) spelling = 'Maeve', Goddess of the Feyr, of magick, of glamorie, and many other things. Some indication of a link to the name of the month 'May', and thus to Beltane as 'May eve'.

Just a small correction - it's not a Welsh spelling or indeed an Irish one, I'd say it was English.

There's no letter v in Welsh.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[ancestral_lee]

the Mab and mabon link is incorrect. the autum equinox ahs only recently become known as Mabon and that i beleive is only as a result of an american author using that name.

even in that case the link is with the welsh/briythonic divine son god Mabon ap Modron, not queen mab.

[Meadhbh]

Thanks for pointing that out. I am probaly off on this, but I said Meadhbh not Mab. While they may be related I consider them to be two different people and therefore they could have conections that don't work for the other.

[Darkwater Stone]

I feel that she is a goddess....don't know why, just gut feeling. That's why I asked for others opinions, to see where others stand.
Great opinions everyone!

[Nepheria]

I see more relation between her and Andraste. I really cannot connect Medb with The Morrigan. They are two different energies to me.

Medb is in more tales than just the Arthurian one. If I recall correctly, she was a main figure in, 'The Battle Raid of Cooley,' or, 'Táin Bó Cúalnge.' As others have noted, I believe.

I was assigned to write an essay on her many many months ago. I also found an interesting picture of what was allegedly her 'tomb.' I figure that if there is a character popping up more than once all over the place (so to speak), that there must be an aspect of the Divine just trying to get a point across.

If I recall correctly, Yeats wrote about her being the Faerie Queen. I am not so sure, but I do not doubt that she is another name given to a Goddess.

I'm quite willing to share the essay with anyone that is interested. If, I can find it! I try to research with historical references over metaphysical references. Some authors just get a little too, "Oh let's just toss this unreliable information in here," if you know what I mean...

Blessings,
Nepheria.

[Darkwater Stone]

I would love to read your essay.

[Meadhbh]

I see more relation between her and Andraste. I really cannot connect Medb with The Morrigan. They are two different energies to me.

You can find a contection with the Morrigan and Andraste as well. Both are war goddesses and both have a tie with ravens. Although it seems to me and I could be wrong that Andraste is more concerned with the out come of the battle than the Morrigan is. You may be able to get Andraste on your side with sacrifice, and offerings ect. The Morrigan is on her own side and that is usually her own.

[Ladylepgirl]

I love Faerie Lore and have an affection for them so I do consider Queen Mab to be a Goddess in the same aspect that Christians pray to Mary. Based on a person that may or may not have existed in this realm, but still someone worth respect. All deities are based on legends, so to consider her not one because she may or may not have been a real person doesn't seem right to me. Its the same with Diana, was she a real person? Was Bast? You know what I mean? Its all based on how you feel. If you consider her a real deity and a Goddess, then she is. Its all how you percieve her to be.

[Nepheria]

You can find a contection with the Morrigan and Andraste as well. Both are war goddesses and both have a tie with ravens. Although it seems to me and I could be wrong that Andraste is more concerned with the out come of the battle than the Morrigan is. You may be able to get Andraste on your side with sacrifice, and offerings ect. The Morrigan is on her own side and that is usually her own.

I'm just speaking from what I know. She is very different to me than Andraste. Then again, I don't really work with Andraste.

Morrigan's main animal is the Hooded Crow/Crows in general. There's always room to pretty much connect anything in this life. Andraste's animal is the Hare/Rabbit, from what I recall reading elsewhere. The tale about helping Boudicca, or whatever her name was comes to mind. I also believe I read somewhere that Andraste's name translates to, "Victory," though, I would have to pull up a lot of researched material to be positive, and even then I am uncertain as to the accuracy of said material. Maybe, if I knew Andraste better and worked with her -- I could find the connection. Where it stands now, I can't.

Yes, Morrigan is very much on her own side and does indeed play by her own rules. :floating: She's a fun one, she is.

Dark, I found the essay but I'm uncertain how to send pictures. There's a picture of the alleged "Medb's Cairn," in the essay. I reread it and it's really nothing that I couldn't sum up here. I went into what she's been associated with, "Rulership, Sexuality, The Earth, Fertility, Glamour, War..." The tale of the Cattle Raid of Cooley.

"In Celtic Tradition the King was ritually wed to this Goddess in the form of her Priestess." (I am so not sure of the accuracy of that, either).

"There is one thing that really sort of backs up the mythology of her existence. Her tomb is located (or said to be located) in Knocknarea. It is 55 meters in diameter, and 10 meters high. It is estimated to have been built around 3000 BC." According to whatever source I was using then. I really need to write down references.

http://merganser.math.gvsu.edu/myth/irish-gal.html

http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/1125

Just do a search on Queen Medb's/Maeve's tomb. There's a ton of information out there.

Blessings,
Nepheria.

[Darkwater Stone]

Dark, I found the essay but I'm uncertain how to send pictures. There's a picture of the alleged "Medb's Cairn," in the essay. I reread it and it's really nothing that I couldn't sum up here. I went into what she's been associated with, "Rulership, Sexuality, The Earth, Fertility, Glamour, War..." The tale of the Cattle Raid of Cooley.

"In Celtic Tradition the King was ritually wed to this Goddess in the form of her Priestess." (I am so not sure of the accuracy of that, either).

"There is one thing that really sort of backs up the mythology of her existence. Her tomb is located (or said to be located) in Knocknarea. It is 55 meters in diameter, and 10 meters high. It is estimated to have been built around 3000 BC." According to whatever source I was using then. I really need to write down references.

http://merganser.math.gvsu.edu/myth/irish-gal.html

http://www.megalithomania.com/show/site/1125

Just do a search on Queen Medb's/Maeve's tomb. There's a ton of information out there.

Blessings,
Nepheria.

Thanks bunches!!

[Seren_]

"In Celtic Tradition the King was ritually wed to this Goddess in the form of her Priestess." (I am so not sure of the accuracy of that, either).

It's not an entirely inaccurate statement. It's more a mating than a marriage (IMHO). Irish myth gives many instances of potential kings proving their right to the throne through sleeping with (or just kissing) a hideous hag who then miraculously turns into a beautiful woman after the deed is done. Sovereignty goddesses also appear in myths as symbols of imbalance and wrongful kingship - Medb is probably one of the best examples since her actions in the Tain can be interpreted as being the result of her weak husband. He's not up to the job, so she tries to overcompensate. But Medb is just one of many sovereignty goddesses who are likely to have been quite localised (Medb being associated with Connacht, for example). The idea of there having been a high king over the whole of Ireland is more a myth than a political reality.

"There is one thing that really sort of backs up the mythology of her existence. Her tomb is located (or said to be located) in Knocknarea. It is 55 meters in diameter, and 10 meters high. It is estimated to have been built around 3000 BC." According to whatever source I was using then. I really need to write down references.

Placename lore that associates mythological figures with places around Ireland and Scotland is mostly quite late (c16th century onwards) - dating to well after the oldest forms of their myths. So it's not necessarily an indicator of much, except a mythological figure's enduring popularity.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Obri Qabalah , or Runic Kcebealla comparison...

22 symbol sum of either language , generally given value
of 1495 ...interestingly , via the number systems...

1495 = Mab , Queen Of Faery Race
( 11 + 746 + 150 + 327 + 261 )