Need some real help or advice with this please

[Isischild]

Hi all,

It's been a very long time since I have posted. However, I am going through something I am having trouble identifying and dealing with and I am seeking help. First, since it has been a while, I am of pagan influenced belifes in certain matters that can only be explained or at least needs to be explained partially or wholely metaphysically. I am a former Wiccan. I say that not because there is anything wrong with Wicca, it's just that it was still a little too religious for me. That is at least in my experience (still had a little dogma creep in that was not mine to own and I feel it tended to interfere with what I was supposed to be or should have been doing).
Anyhow, on to my topic and point,

:help: I would like some advice or ideas or help with this: I have been alone all my life and now what there is left of it I am being catapulted into a world of feelings, wants, and other unexplainable things that are unfamilar to me.
I have never had a girlfriend (in the romantic sense). I have never even been on a date as hard as that is to believe (especially if you knew my age which I will not reveal here). Now for the past 4 months I have been going through the beginings of what I will describe as the underworld. I say that because I think I would like what I can not have(or so it would seem). I'm confused again already.
I think I would like to find a soulmate....if that's even what this is about?
I don't know how this crap started, but I'm am growing more sick of it each day and even depressed somewhat.
It makes no sense to me as I do not want to get married or have kids because I view that as irresponsible and mean-spirited. (No offense to anyone who is married or wants to be or anyone who has kids or desires them...it just is for me). I am also not the best looking person on the planet, nor do I really have anything to offer in a "relationship". I am also not even near financially stable which seems to be a requirement in this society. I am also very shy (which is why I am taking a huge risk posting here..I'm desperate for help). I can not make small talk nor do I have any other "social skill" in that area.
One of the odd things is that I have helped many a friend and friends of friends in the past with some very tricky "relationship" stuff, (just name the problem). In fact, one big one was only about 5 months ago!
In every case I have been spot on and have really helped a great deal so I am told. The wierd thing is that it was all done WITHOUT any experience on my part! I have all this "head-knowledge" I guess one could call it, but no practical experience in that sort of thing. So it is a mystery to me how I could have helped so much not to mention hearing what I was saying...I guess the metaphysical explanation is that it was guided,.....but I digress.

My Goddess is Isis (as you may have guessed). In fact, I am very partial to the egyptian pantheon judging from what others have observed.
(Mind you I have had some knock-down drag-outs with Aphrodieti in the past and have won each time..after taking some near fatal blows. We just don't get along and I thought I had gotten rid of her medlesome interference for good...maybe that is still true, I don't know)
Sorry, I digress again.

My question (s) is what is this I am going through now and how do I handle it? (mid-life crisis has been completely ruled out). I have tried keeping myself busy which has always worked in the past, but now does not work at all. As for any suggestion of magick...it has been a long time since I performed any. I'm not against it mind you, but I prefer the "fire and forget" methods and while 70% if the time it would work, the results.....well let's just say that often times they were not really bad, but not even close to what I was looking for. So I'm a little leary about doing magick in regards to this. (I can be forced to in emergency though).

I have no idea what the future possibly holds for me and I don't know what moves I have a choice of. I can't do a tarot reading on myself (that's one of those impossible things).

So I welcome any serious help, suggestions, advice, ideas, referrals, etc. Don't be put off if I let you know that something has been tried and failed or if I don't have the ability to try something or other as that may occure.
If you need more information in all seriousness, don't hesitate to ask to speak to me privately (If I determin that you really want to or can help and aren't just a looky-loo or something we will figure out a way).

Thank you so much,

Cheers, peace and blessings,

Isischild

[BrigidMoon]

I don't think it's a bad thing to want a relationship. I don't think it's a bad thing to want to find your soul mate. It's okay.

Do we ask to have such challenges given to us?

Do we ask for surprises and desires?

I don't think so. We're given them for a reason.

Your friends may be able to help you out. Maybe you just need a companion?

Many people out there do not want to get married or have children either. :)


So......try not to freak out about this.

_pounce_

To want to love and be loved to me, is a wonderful gift.

[Isischild]

Thank you BrigidMoon. (By the by, I am familar with Brigid, worked with her for a short time..she even had me get a guitar some time back for some reason. Personally I never would have associated her with that but she's a goddess, who am I?) I digress.

A point I forgot to mention is that I have no close friends. I really am a lone wolf as they say.
I agree that we don't ask for surprises or desires otherwise they would not be called such. However, sometimes we ask for challenges without realizing it. However, in this case I have never asked for anything like this in the whole of my life so it came out of nowhere. (Heck, I have even fought it off when it came in the form of interference).

I don't view this as a challenge either. I view it as torture in the extreme and it's driving me right to a firing squad someday if I can't figure out what to do.

A companion would be near perfect...I think, (isn't that part of the steps to a soulmate anyway?), but I don't have a clue as to what to do about it.

See how complicated it gets?

Thanks,

Isischild


I don't think it's a bad thing to want a relationship. I don't think it's a bad thing to want to find your soul mate. It's okay.

Do we ask to have such challenges given to us?

Do we ask for surprises and desires?

I don't think so. We're given them for a reason.

Your friends may be able to help you out. Maybe you just need a companion?

Many people out there do not want to get married or have children either. :)


So......try not to freak out about this.

_pounce_

To want to love and be loved to me, is a wonderful gift.

[Catiana]

I think I would like to find a soulmate....if that's even what this is about?
I don't know how this crap started, but I'm am growing more sick of it each day and even depressed somewhat.
It makes no sense to me as I do not want to get married or have kids because I view that as irresponsible and mean-spirited. (No offense to anyone who is married or wants to be or anyone who has kids or desires them...it just is for me). I am also not the best looking person on the planet, nor do I really have anything to offer in a "relationship". I am also not even near financially stable which seems to be a requirement in this society. I am also very shy (which is why I am taking a huge risk posting here..I'm desperate for help). I can not make small talk nor do I have any other "social skill" in that area.One of the odd things is that I have helped many a friend and friends of friends in the past with some very tricky "relationship" stuff, (just name the problem). In fact, one big one was only about 5 months ago!
In every case I have been spot on and have really helped a great deal so I am told. The wierd thing is that it was all done WITHOUT any experience on my part! I have all this "head-knowledge" I guess one could call it, but no practical experience in that sort of thing. So it is a mystery to me how I could have helped so much not to mention hearing what I was saying...I guess the metaphysical explanation is that it was guided,.....but I digress.

Cheers, peace and blessings,

Isischild

Its completely normal to want to find someone to be close to. It sounds like there may be some deep seeded self-esteem issues and fear of rejection and intimacy that are keeping you from even attempting to find someone.

Not every woman is looking for Brad Pitt, or needs a guy with a ton of money. You obviously have no problem making friends and it sounds like people like you. Friends are a good source to help find someone to have a relationship with.

Don't know if that helps, but I hope you find what you're looking for.

[Catiana]

I didn't see the second post about not having close friends before I wrote mine, but you have friends close enough that they will come to you with their problems. I'm getting the feeling that you don't give yourself enough credit.

[semi]

You say that you see your situation as torture. Therefore, it is. Your belief that it's torture makes it torturous. Accept it as a challenge and it becomes less torturous. Accept your isolation as a gift and you can learn a lot about yourself and existence. And I think that's why you're in the situation you're in, at least on a philosophical or spiritual level. You have been presented with this situation for some reason. Instead of letting the situation ruin your life by interpreting the situation as torture, alter your attitude to see it in different ways and learn about it. When you learn about it about the causes behind the situation, you can change the situation.

Now, when I say "accept" I don't mean to sit there passively and do nothing. Quite the opposite. What I mean is a mental centering where you realistically look at the situation. Like "I am here, I am alone and lonely and it hurts. That is the situation." But don't become emotionally involved in this and start to feel bad about. Just affirm a solid rational grasp of the situation with no emotional content attached. Then from that point of acceptance, you fight your way out. You take action at every opportunity to change the situation even when your fears and worries are telling you not to take the action. Those nagging self-doubts keep you in a safe place, but it's a place that makes you feel miserable and alone. There is no risk to you if you stay in that safe place and the little voices, your ego, does not want to risk being hurt. But what you want requires leaving that safe place and risking being hurt. My attitude is that it's better to die trying than to not try at all.

So you have to do things that you would not normally do, things that may even make you uncomfortable. Start conversations with total strangers. Go out among people and interact with them. Lower your defenses and step out of the safety zone. Risk. Nothing is free. You have to fight for what you want, you have to pay for it, you have to sacrifice. You will not make a good impression with some people. Some people won't like you. Screw 'em. Take the hit and move on, keep pushing yourself out of your safety zone. As you spend more time out of it, you'll become more comfortable with the risk of leaving it, and you'll be able to loosen up and interact better.

By staying in your shell like this you are cheating yourself out of life. You say you have nothing to offer. So far, just in this thread, you have exhibited intelligence, spiritual depth and knowledge, honesty, kindness, and a desire for a good life that's so strong it hurts you. These are good things. You have things to offer so accept that and stop letting the little voices of self-doubt beat you up. You say you're not good looking? So? Why let something like that stop you from enjoying life. I'm not a pretty man either, but I don't care. And because I don't care, it really doesn't matter. I do fine. The way I see it, romantically/socially interacting with women is like playing checkers for good looking guys. For me, it's like playing chess. A little more complicated because I don't look like the current societal ideal of an attractive man. But I like chess and I learned how to play it well. You have to overcome the fact that you have weak points and play on your strong points, such as the qualities I mentioned above.

So get out there. Risk. Fight. Live. Good luck.

[Isischild]

Its completely normal to want to find someone to be close to. It sounds like there may be some deep seeded self-esteem issues and fear of rejection and intimacy that are keeping you from even attempting to find someone.

Not every woman is looking for Brad Pitt, or needs a guy with a ton of money. You obviously have no problem making friends and it sounds like people like you. Friends are a good source to help find someone to have a relationship with.

Don't know if that helps, but I hope you find what you're looking for.

Hmm, Self-esteem is a definite problem with me, yes. I don't know about "fear of rejection" though. I get rejected in almost all facets of life 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 and a quarter days a year so I think I have come to expect that all the time. "Fear of intimacy"?...Hmm, not sure. I don't know if I am or not.

Brad Pitt? Who? I'm not familar with that person, but I get the drift.

Isischild

[SSanf]

Your soul mate is NOT going to come and knock on your door looking for you.

Hard as it may be, you need to make your self known available and approachable. That means getting off your duff, showering and going out. Join clubs and so forth where people are. You will only feel like an outsider for the first few times you go.

The Unitarian-Universalist church is VERY Pagan friendly and often an entre to meeting other Pagans in your area.

Check out http://www.cuups.org/

[Isischild]

First let me thank you for your kind words. Sorry it took a couple of days to reply. I've been trying to keep myself busy.

I took the liberty of responding to sections of your post in blue as I have done here.


You say that you see your situation as torture. Therefore, it is. Your belief that it's torture makes it torturous. Accept it as a challenge and it becomes less torturous. Accept your isolation as a gift and you can learn a lot about yourself and existence. And I think that's why you're in the situation you're in, at least on a philosophical or spiritual level. You have been presented with this situation for some reason. Instead of letting the situation ruin your life by interpreting the situation as torture, alter your attitude to see it in different ways and learn about it. When you learn about it about the causes behind the situation, you can change the situation.

It is scientificly impossible to accept my situation as a challenge even on a metephysical or ecsoteric level. A challenge usually comes from asking the universe or deity for something which I have not done regarding this...ever. Further to that, a challenge usually is accompanied with choice(s) or limited information or a clue or clues of possible action or solution. This is not the case here. Therefore, without any clues or choice or even limited information it becomes nothing more than torture. (For example solving a physics problem is a challenge because not only does one choose to try it, but it is accompanied with the fact that one already has at least minimal information or perhaps a small clue and their accumulated knowledge to that point therefore an attempt can be made).

As far as my isolation being a gift...it used to be. I think 3 decades of being isolated to some degree with the last decade being totally isolated is more than long enough to learn plenty about oneself.

I don't know what to learn about it. I don't know why. I don't have a clue as to how or where to even begin. I have no resources. All I have is a lot of unanswered questions that may well never have answers.

Now, when I say "accept" I don't mean to sit there passively and do nothing. Quite the opposite. What I mean is a mental centering where you realistically look at the situation. Like "I am here, I am alone and lonely and it hurts. That is the situation." But don't become emotionally involved in this and start to feel bad about. Just affirm a solid rational grasp of the situation with no emotional content attached. Then from that point of acceptance, you fight your way out. You take action at every opportunity to change the situation even when your fears and worries are telling you not to take the action. Those nagging self-doubts keep you in a safe place, but it's a place that makes you feel miserable and alone. There is no risk to you if you stay in that safe place and the little voices, your ego, does not want to risk being hurt. But what you want requires leaving that safe place and risking being hurt. My attitude is that it's better to die trying than to not try at all.

As I said, I haven't got a clue as where to even begin. I have no information or resources about it. If I had no emotional content attached to it then the problem wouldn't even exist and I would not have posted.
I wish I could fight my way out of it, but how do I do that? I wouldn't mind to die trying I'll accept that as well.

So you have to do things that you would not normally do, things that may even make you uncomfortable. Start conversations with total strangers. Go out among people and interact with them. Lower your defenses and step out of the safety zone. Risk. Nothing is free. You have to fight for what you want, you have to pay for it, you have to sacrifice. You will not make a good impression with some people. Some people won't like you. Screw 'em. Take the hit and move on, keep pushing yourself out of your safety zone. As you spend more time out of it, you'll become more comfortable with the risk of leaving it, and you'll be able to loosen up and interact better.

Hmm, that all sounds logical. However, I can't start conversations with total strangers. I never learned that skill. I can however start one if they start it first.....I think. It depends, I'm pretty shy. Doing things I normally wouldn't do? I started just by posting here.

By staying in your shell like this you are cheating yourself out of life. You say you have nothing to offer. So far, just in this thread, you have exhibited intelligence, spiritual depth and knowledge, honesty, kindness, and a desire for a good life that's so strong it hurts you. These are good things. You have things to offer so accept that and stop letting the little voices of self-doubt beat you up. You say you're not good looking? So? Why let something like that stop you from enjoying life. I'm not a pretty man either, but I don't care. And because I don't care, it really doesn't matter. I do fine. The way I see it, romantically/socially interacting with women is like playing checkers for good looking guys. For me, it's like playing chess. A little more complicated because I don't look like the current societal ideal of an attractive man. But I like chess and I learned how to play it well. You have to overcome the fact that you have weak points and play on your strong points, such as the qualities I mentioned above.

Again, thank you for those perceptive kind words. The "looks" thing is a challenge, but one worth trying............I think.
I like the checkers/chess analogy. For me it's more like 3-dimensional chinese chess.
Wish I knew how to play chess, I've tried and just can't go 4 minutes without getting extremely frustrated. All I know is Backgammon, Poker and Blackjack.
I'm good at them though.

So get out there. Risk. Fight. Live. Good luck.


I'll give you a little update here. Last night I found out some of the cause or the "why" to my situation. Actually, it was more of a confirmation. I went to hear Sonali Kolhatkar from KPFK radio lecture on Afghanistan. (Not sure if you know whom that is, but it doesn't matter). We had a chance to sit and talk and did so till 10:30pm. (She talked with me a whole hour and yes, I started it because the situation or atmosphere made it easy for me).
Also being in the peace movement, I asked her if she gets overwhelmed sometimes with the news and compassion she has for the awful situations going on in the world and if so how she bears it. She revealed to me that the biggest secret is her husband. "Having someone there whom shares your views and idealogies or what have you and can be there for you as you are for them is how I get through. That and my work with RAWA." She then put her hand on my shoulder and said with great perception, "I highly recommend you get someone too like that and soon sweetie or your not going to make it much longer. You are so sweet and I don't want to see you in a bad way, ya know?"

So with that I put 2 and 2 together and got the same answer only in more detail. Unfortunately it doesn't help my situation, but at least I know some of the "why" now. I just don't know what to do about it.

While I do get sick to my stomach at the idea, I'm thinking perhaps I should maybe see a relationship counslor? I don't know, I'm just guessing.

Thanks,

Isischild

[Dragonladyofwater]

I think counseling is a good idea, my recommendation would be to learn how to truly love yourself and appreciate who you are before trying to get into a relationship to 'fix' how you're feeling.

As I read through these posts I saw a whole lot of negativity about yourself very few assertive statements and even less positive assertive ones. Do some work on you first, you may find once you are truly happy with who you are a relationship just falls into place and then you can both be happy together.

[Isischild]

Your soul mate is NOT going to come and knock on your door looking for you.

Hard as it may be, you need to make your self known available and approachable. That means getting off your duff, showering and going out. Join clubs and so forth where people are. You will only feel like an outsider for the first few times you go.

The Unitarian-Universalist church is VERY Pagan friendly and often an entre to meeting other Pagans in your area.

Check out http://www.cuups.org/

As far as my soul mate or what have you coming knocking at my door goes....that's pretty much what needs to happen figuratively speaking. That's what it would take to get my attention to action.

I don't know how to make myself approachable. How does on do that?
There was one club I tried to join only 1 week ago and got banned yesterday for my ideas and suggestions....and they call themselves progressive...BS! Once again a bunch of fakes. That's all there is around here where I live, is fake people.

I don't have any other clubs to join within a 15 mile radius. All the other ones that I could even do anything in are further than 30 miles away and I don't have that kind of transportation budget.

Yes, the UU church is friendly, but still far too religious and Christian for me. I have a past I do not wish to re-live or give any energy to unless it's for destructive purposes.

Isischild

[Catiana]

There are a ton of places to meet people. What kind of these do you like to do? Do you work outside of the home? Strike up conversatios with people in line at the store, get to know the ladies at work. There is the potential for meeting someone everywhere you go.

[Sage Rainsong]

I don't know how to make myself approachable. How does on do that?

Besides the obvious physical things (like showering and wearing decent clothing) you need to watch your body language. Yes it is easier said than done, but if you go to a bar or something and you stare at the ground and not look at anyone, people really do subconciously pick up on it. Also have you tried looking on witchvox.net or doing a yahoo group search of your area? Even if you put yourself out there just try to email people that appeal to you even only if a friendship (that wouldn't be so bad right?). I know that on witchvox I had to email people. I think most people on that site have this whole attitude where if someone wants to talk to me they email me first. Oh also you acan try a matchdoctor.com ad. Its a dating site that is free (yeah it really is). Anyway you seem like a genuine person and that is all too rare. There is no need to beat yourself up.

[Isischild]

I think counseling is a good idea, my recommendation would be to learn how to truly love yourself and appreciate who you are before trying to get into a relationship to 'fix' how you're feeling.

As I read through these posts I saw a whole lot of negativity about yourself very few assertive statements and even less positive assertive ones. Do some work on you first, you may find once you are truly happy with who you are a relationship just falls into place and then you can both be happy together.

What type of counseling? Regular psych-therapy? I hope that's not what you are suggesting as I would much rather go in front of a firing squad than do that BS. That's not what I need, there is nothing wrong with me in that regard.

However, I agree that I need to learn how to appreciate who I am as I really haven't got an idea of that per se. As far as "truly loving myself"...I can pass on that as I really don't want to go down that road to vanity or inflated ego, etc. So if I can find someone to guide me in how to do that and provide some tools or point me in a direction or something that would be good. (Of course, they would have to do it for free as I don't have the money for extras. I can barely get the basics covered).
As far as knowing myself/doing some work on myself goes...I think 30 years is long enough. (The so-called "negativity about myself and few assertive statements"). I deal in reality and what I say about myself is true to the best of my knowledge. Honestly, I'm not an assertive person at all, I never have been. (I guess that makes me a good listener and a very patient person in most respects). I refuse to try to be someone or something I'm not. I have learned to accept my faults I can't fix and live with them. It just is what it is. Yes, I have almost no social skills or I should say no skills when it comes to approaching women with confidence. (Yet, I have a deep respect and admiration for women and value their opinions or advice higher than men 95% of the time. I do try for balance though as I can).
However, not contradicting myself here, I have more to learn as it is an on-going process for everyone or at least those willing to admit it.

I am not trying to fix how I am feeling with a relationship because that does not work. I am not looking for a co-dependent relationship in either direction thank you. (I probably should have made that clear..sorry, my bad). Let's be honest though, having someone who shares most of your beliefs, ideas, vision or what have you and having someone you can talk with in that regard is mutually benificial. Having someone you can share good things with is very benificial to people such as myself (compassionate, passionate about certain things, etc). Those are things that are usually included in a soul-mate obviously. However, I am not looking for an instant soul-mate. (I haven't seen any packages in the store saying "Instant soul-mate just add water"). I would be more than happy just starting out with a companion or potential friendship or something to that effect within driving distance. (I have no friends that live anywhere close to me and the ones I have, we don't get together but once every 3 years or so if we can, not even by phone that much either).

I do realize that I live in the wrong neighborhood for me, but I am stuck at the moment so there is nothing I can do about that right now.

I do see what you are saying about a relationship maybe falling into place once I am happy with who I am. I agree and I think that would be crucial.

Thank you for your reply and advice, it is duly noted and appreciated.

Thank you, cheers,

Isischild

[Sage Rainsong]

As far as "truly loving myself"...I can pass on that as I really don't want to go down that road to vanity or inflated ego, etc. So if I can find someone to guide me in how to do that and provide some tools or point me in a direction or something that would be good

The truth is that people who have inflated egos or are vain are ususally insecure with themselves. Its a front used so no one sees how scared they are. However there is nothing wrong with loving yourself. There is a difference. Maybe you may like affirmations. If you stick with them they can create profound change.

[semi]

If you don't have social skills and there is no one who can teach you, then you have to learn by trial and error. How will you learn to talk to people? By talking to them. Try it everywhere you go. The grocery store, bookstores, the laundromat, cafes, the gym, everywhere you might go. Don't know what to say? Compliment someone. But be genuine. Find something you like about a person and say something about it, but be relaxed and casual, not too intense or threatening. Smile. And after you say it, let it go right there. If they reply, maybe talk a little more. If they ignore you, that's ok, maybe they don't know how to talk to strangers either. If they mace you, you have learned to stand a little further away. But the only way to learn it is to do it. As was mentioned, body language matters. Be relaxed and casual. You're just a person talking to another person just like everybody else.

I believe that a person creates their own reality to an extent. If you believe that you are incapable of social interaction, you probably will be. And although I don't know you, I still think that much or at least some of your problem could be fixed by adjusting your attitude and belief about yourself and your situation. Thought is an energy. Thinking negatively about yourself creates negative energy inside and around yourself. Most people that you might want as a romantic partner will probably not be drawn to that energy. Change the energy, transform it to a more positive state by thinking differently about yourself, by changing your attitude.

But how do you do that? It's difficult to break habitual negative thought patterns, but it's not impossible. It requires awareness and discipline. People choose the way they think until patterns, habits, are formed and then the thinking becomes reflexive. Be aware of when you reflexively put yourself down or have no faith in yourself, then stop thinking that way. It's difficult, yes, but at the same time it's really that easy. Eventually it will become a reflex to stop thinking negatively. You will have changed your thought patterns and changed your energy, transforming it to a more positive, more attractive state. I have done this. It works.

[Isischild]

Besides the obvious physical things (like showering and wearing decent clothing) you need to watch your body language. Yes it is easier said than done, but if you go to a bar or something and you stare at the ground and not look at anyone, people really do subconciously pick up on it. Also have you tried looking on witchvox.net or doing a yahoo group search of your area? Even if you put yourself out there just try to email people that appeal to you even only if a friendship (that wouldn't be so bad right?). I know that on witchvox I had to email people. I think most people on that site have this whole attitude where if someone wants to talk to me they email me first. Oh also you acan try a matchdoctor.com ad. Its a dating site that is free (yeah it really is). Anyway you seem like a genuine person and that is all too rare. There is no need to beat yourself up.

This is interesting. Thank you for your reply by the way.
Yeah, body language...there's one for ya. Thankfully, I do not go to bars. That's just not my scene. Besides, one is asking for trouble if one is searching bars for freindships or more....yikes! Having said that though, thanks for the reminder about body language that is a tough one, but crucial.

No, I haven't tried looking on witchvox.com. I'm not neccessarly looking for a pagan person or witch specificialy, but that will do. Just as long as they are not christian or a flag-waving war/hate monger or just an artificial/superficial fair-weather person, etc. I don't mind if they want one to e-mail first, no big deal there.
Yes, a friendship is more than fine. (That's how it has to start anyway..trust must be developed first, yeah?)

Matchdoctor.com? Uh,.......isn't that just as dangerous or maybe even more so than going to a bar? Hmm,.....dating sites....hmmm, I don't about that route, free or not. I scare very easy, so that's probably not a good thing for me to do.

I have tried Meet Up.com, but so far have managed only to be banned from the one club that interested me and that was with in driving distance for me. I got banned for suggesting something to bring focus back around to certain issues. They call themselves progressive peace activists, which is what I am, but I think they are fakes for banning me. (Not surprising in my area though).

I don't know of any safe yahoo goups except the one I am a part of which is for a band in England. I actually made one friend through that so far who happens to be Jamie Oliver's best mate and co-founder of the band. (The whole band are special people...golden hearts have them all).

Thank you for your kind compliment. Maybe the rarity is part of the problem, but I am not willing to change that part of myself for the sake of anyone. I much prefer to be genuine at any cost.

Isischild

[Isischild]

If you don't have social skills and there is no one who can teach you, then you have to learn by trial and error.

Only in approaching women with any confidence in myself. I do have general social skills.

How will you learn to talk to people? By talking to them. Try it everywhere you go. The grocery store, bookstores, the laundromat, cafes, the gym, everywhere you might go. Don't know what to say? Compliment someone. But be genuine. Find something you like about a person and say something about it, but be relaxed and casual, not too intense or threatening. Smile. And after you say it, let it go right there. If they reply, maybe talk a little more. If they ignore you, that's ok, maybe they don't know how to talk to strangers either. If they mace you, you have learned to stand a little further away. But the only way to learn it is to do it. As was mentioned, body language matters. Be relaxed and casual. You're just a person talking to another person just like everybody else.

Hmm, I think I can do that on rare occasion. I only do that if I can be of assistance though. I think I have done that and not fully realized it.
"mace me"?........while I would never cause that to happen, LOL that's pretty funny...thanks for making laugh with that.


I believe that a person creates their own reality to an extent. If you believe that you are incapable of social interaction, you probably will be. And although I don't know you, I still think that much or at least some of your problem could be fixed by adjusting your attitude and belief about yourself and your situation. Thought is an energy. Thinking negatively about yourself creates negative energy inside and around yourself. Most people that you might want as a romantic partner will probably not be drawn to that energy. Change the energy, transform it to a more positive state by thinking differently about yourself, by changing your attitude.

Yeah, I agree, but in order for me to adjust my attitude and belief about myself, I'm going to need some tools or a tool or something that is a little more than you mention below. What you say is certainly valid and doable, but I need a bit of help to start.
Thanks, what you just said actually got me thinking to this: While I'm nothing special per se, I need to learn and to clearly see my attributes or assets or whatever, how ever many there are..one or more than one, it doesn't matter, I think that would help first. I can see my short-comings with crystal clarity and I do tend to focus on those as if they are a tool to keep myself grounded or genuine.
Honestly, I have great difficulty catching myself. I know I just have to do it at at a soon point. I'll continue to ask around about that to see if there is anything I can do to help myself catch myself in "unneccessary" negative thought about myself (while being careful not to end up living in denial).
Maybe learning what my true attributes or assets are would be a good tool. That way when ever I am aware that I may be unneccessarily thinking negatively about myself I can balance it out by thinking of the or an attribute.
(Now if I can only find out how to learn what they are and see them clearly...any suggestions?).

I wonder how long it will take.....I'm running out of time...I'm no spring chicken.

But how do you do that? It's difficult to break habitual negative thought patterns, but it's not impossible. It requires awareness and discipline. People choose the way they think until patterns, habits, are formed and then the thinking becomes reflexive. Be aware of when you reflexively put yourself down or have no faith in yourself, then stop thinking that way. It's difficult, yes, but at the same time it's really that easy. Eventually it will become a reflex to stop thinking negatively. You will have changed your thought patterns and changed your energy, transforming it to a more positive, more attractive state. I have done this. It works.

Thank you,

Isischild

[semi]

Some of your positive attributes have already been mentioned in this thread. And that's what people are picking up only through text via the internet. I'm sure you have many more positive qualities to focus on.

If I were you, I'd be happy and excited right now. You're taking steps to change your life and make it better. There may be setbacks along the way, but it'll work out. Have fun.

[Isischild]

Some of your positive attributes have already been mentioned in this thread. And that's what people are picking up only through text via the internet. I'm sure you have many more positive qualities to focus on.

If I were you, I'd be happy and excited right now. You're taking steps to change your life and make it better. There may be setbacks along the way, but it'll work out. Have fun.

Yes, I am starting to see. It will work for a start. I'm going to extract those positive attributes and list them to work with. That may even lead me to more explorations and findings. The hard part will be putting myself out there and even harder still will be meeting single women I may be attracted to, going up and trying to start a conversation. I don't want to give the impression that I am just trying to pick up on them, because that is not my intent. My intent is potential friendship first then we will see.

Isischild

[Sage Rainsong]

Uh,.......isn't that just as dangerous or maybe even more so than going to a bar? Hmm,.....dating sites....hmmm, I don't about that route, free or not. I scare very easy, so that's probably not a good thing for me to do.

Its no more dangerous than real life. You are online. Are you Dangerous? Of course there are weirdos but if you don't give info out and meet in a public place until your comfortable its no more dangerous than a bar or something. I know of two couples that are getting married who met online. Yeah they went through a couple of duds but hey it was worth it in the end.

[Salanthos]

Hi, Iris. if you're having trouble striking up a conversation, try going slowly. start smiling at people, saying hello, etc. it opens the door for conversation to begin, and then there's the possibility of friendship. also, it seems to me that if people are close enough friends to ask you for help, they are close enough to be asked...but that's only my opinion. good luck on your journey, and Gods Bless

[Isischild]

Hi, Iris. if you're having trouble striking up a conversation, try going slowly. start smiling at people, saying hello, etc. it opens the door for conversation to begin, and then there's the possibility of friendship. also, it seems to me that if people are close enough friends to ask you for help, they are close enough to be asked...but that's only my opinion. good luck on your journey, and Gods Bless

Smiling at people gets nowhere really. It's as far as it goes, no dialog or anything, just a smile.
By close friends, I mean in the past. There is a ton of trust, yes and we used to live close, but now we aren't even within driving distance. I only hear from two out of three friends and it's sparce. One I hear from about 3 to 4 times a year. One I hear from about once or twice a year and the third I haven't heard from for 3 years.
One suggested Meet Up. com (It's not a dating site as I don't want a dating site. It's a site to help people of like interest get together). Well, that failed...it's a joke.

Perhaps, someday I'll think of something.

Isischild

[BrigidMoon]

If you are worried about meeting people in person, why not try and get a friendship online and chat? We have a chat option too. That would help get you into some kind of conversation without actually having to physically interact with anyone. Just from text to text.

I met my husband online..we chatted for many years before meeting in person.

Just a thought.

[MerryBe]

Smiling at people gets nowhere really. It's as far as it goes, no dialog or anything, just a smile.
By close friends, I mean in the past. There is a ton of trust, yes and we used to live close, but now we aren't even within driving distance. I only hear from two out of three friends and it's sparce. One I hear from about 3 to 4 times a year. One I hear from about once or twice a year and the third I haven't heard from for 3 years.
One suggested Meet Up. com (It's not a dating site as I don't want a dating site. It's a site to help people of like interest get together). Well, that failed...it's a joke.

Perhaps, someday I'll think of something.

Isischild


Hello Isischild,

I have been following your postings out here, and as others have pointed out, you are showing some very good attributes about yourself.

I also agree that your self-esteem is showing signs of negativity. Macho BS, and those who are in love with their looks only are superficial and it doesn't mean they actually love themselves as a person.

OK, the next thing I see, is that you have reached a plateau in your life in which you need to progress further. The life you had chosen was fine for the time being, but all things change, and people grow too.

While not everyone will share ALL your beliefs, for example Marriage and Children etc. There are still those who desire a meaningful relationship.

I was married and had three children, so even though my belief's differ, I can also understand that being a loner for a long time can make one prone to being set in their ways and reluctant to change. Even though change is part of life.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not telling you to change who you are, just that maybe broadening your horizens and letting other's in that you didn't know where there to begin with might help.

Now for conversations, hmm, you do a fine job of writing and getting your points across, now all you have to do is to apply it verbally. Like I said not everyone will agree on everything at all times. Those that offend you, leave by the wayside, but you never know what you will find if you don't try.

One thing I can say with certainty is that the older we get the harder it is to make friends.
Less people in our own situation and that does make things tougher.

Now take a look at your good qualities, what you like about yourself, and think on those for a while.

I understand you are shy, but, maybe you need to tweak it a bit, so you can talk to strangers those you come in contact with all the time.

Best place for men to meet women believe it or not is the Supermarket! Many a Gentleman have asked me a simple question on something they pulled off the shelf and wasnt sure on eithr how to make it or what the ingredients were.
From there, whole conversations have started.

Then there are those who can tell a good joke or two while standing in line, trust me, I loathe standing in line and when some Gentleman makes a comment or tells a joke, it makes the whole thing worth while.

Coming from a Woman, the best way to get her attention and start a conversation is to ask for help! Ask anything, in a nice way and if they are caring people they will most certainly "help" you!

If you don't have a certain schedule for yourself, then set one up. Either go for walks at certain times of the day when you are likely to meet women, or same goes for the Supermarket!

As long as you are groomed and act like the Gentleman you are, I see no problems.


I wish you well in your own personal growth experience, after all, we are human, and thus we have needs to be met in one fashion or another at different stages of our lives. Age, Looks, and wealth do not matter in the real world. As sure as you are sitting there wondering about these things, so are others!


Gee, you can always open your own Forum for those who are mature adults that want to chat with others of similar backgrounds. That way you can Moderate your own forum and speak only to those you want to!

Brightest Blessings,
MerryBe

[Isischild]

If you are worried about meeting people in person, why not try and get a friendship online and chat? We have a chat option too. That would help get you into some kind of conversation without actually having to physically interact with anyone. Just from text to text.

I met my husband online..we chatted for many years before meeting in person.

Just a thought.

Not a bad idea at all. I have been thinking about that and while it is risky it is also initialy safe at first if one is savey enough.
While I am unable to chat, I can always just do Email or something.
This also will have to do as I think I will be looking outside of the U.S. I have always desired to make friends in other countries like Iran and the like. I have a friend in England who is best mates with a certain celeb figure to some over there whom I consider a mentor of sorts. Sorry I can't reveal the name. (unless you can guess it).

Wow, you met your husband that way? Count yourself as very lucky and couragous.
Thanks Brigidmoon.

Isischild

[Isischild]

Hello Isischild,

I have been following your postings out here, and as others have pointed out, you are showing some very good attributes about yourself.

I also agree that your self-esteem is showing signs of negativity. Macho BS, and those who are in love with their looks only are superficial and it doesn't mean they actually love themselves as a person.

Yes, I do have self-esteem issues and what led up to that would take a month to type and use more bandwith than I can imagine. However, that story is not important at this point in my life. (Maybe certain bits of it might be though, who knows).

OK, the next thing I see, is that you have reached a plateau in your life in which you need to progress further. The life you had chosen was fine for the time being, but all things change, and people grow too.

Bingo!!!!!! Very perceptive and profound!!!!!!!!!!!!

While not everyone will share ALL your beliefs, for example Marriage and Children etc. There are still those who desire a meaningful relationship.

I was married and had three children, so even though my belief's differ, I can also understand that being a loner for a long time can make one prone to being set in their ways and reluctant to change. Even though change is part of life.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not telling you to change who you are, just that maybe broadening your horizens and letting other's in that you didn't know where there to begin with might help.

Nailed it again! (It seems you have the same talent I do so to speak).
In broadening horizons do you also mean be open to or receptive of the possiblity of marriage or kids? I'm afraid that is one thing I can not do. It's not about being afraid of commitment, I'm not. Commitment is in my nature. I do however agree with living together or domestic partnership or common law, what have you.

Now for conversations, hmm, you do a fine job of writing and getting your points across, now all you have to do is to apply it verbally. Like I said not everyone will agree on everything at all times. Those that offend you, leave by the wayside, but you never know what you will find if you don't try.

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree all the time. Where would our quest for knowledge be if we all agreed on everything all the time. Where would diversity be? If we all agreed on everything then conversation would not be possible.

One thing I can say with certainty is that the older we get the harder it is to make friends.
Less people in our own situation and that does make things tougher.

Hmm, I never thought of that for some reason.

Now take a look at your good qualities, what you like about yourself, and think on those for a while.

Yes, I am trying to do that. It may not be much, but it's still possible to work with what I have and it should be enough.

I understand you are shy, but, maybe you need to tweak it a bit, so you can talk to strangers those you come in contact with all the time.

Shell-shocked is the term I would use. (sort of kidding there).
How does one "tweak it"?

Best place for men to meet women believe it or not is the Supermarket! Many a Gentleman have asked me a simple question on something they pulled off the shelf and wasnt sure on eithr how to make it or what the ingredients were.
From there, whole conversations have started.

Then there are those who can tell a good joke or two while standing in line, trust me, I loathe standing in line and when some Gentleman makes a comment or tells a joke, it makes the whole thing worth while.

I can see that happening generally. I'm not trying to put down your idea or suggestion. However, it won't work in my area at least. All married, have kids or are old enough to be my great grandma and I'm not a spring chicken myself. Besides, in my area everyone is so into themselves and their credit card mentalities as well as being little islands that I don't see many people really interacting. It's like living in robotville or something. It's kind of scary. It's just the way people are in my area and I can't change that. That's why I need to look elsewhere.
I'm no good at jokes. I've lost quite a bit of my sense of humor.
Also thanks for the example you gave about the item from the shelf, but that one won't work on me. *laughing*...it so happens, I am a cook and someday I hope to get enough money to get my level A certification. (Just for self-esteem issues and fun).

Coming from a Woman, the best way to get her attention and start a conversation is to ask for help! Ask anything, in a nice way and if they are caring people they will most certainly "help" you!

I'm pretty self-sufficient except in this area obviously. (That's why I really appreciate your insight). Often times I can't think of anything to ask. How do I know she would even know anyway?

If you don't have a certain schedule for yourself, then set one up. Either go for walks at certain times of the day when you are likely to meet women, or same goes for the Supermarket!

Again, not blasting your idea to kingdom come but, I don't think I can do that. These days if your a man your automatically considered a preditor or something. If I were to run into someone going in the same direction at the same speed and start walking with them to make conversation. I am very fearful that I would be charged with stalking or harassment or something just because I'm male. It's a freaky society out there these days. Besides, most times when one is walking the people one runs into are going by you in the opposite direction at 4 times your speed. Makes it hard to even say hello.

I really shouldn't be looking in my area anyway. It is very much the wrong place. That fact being said, I am looking elsewhere, including out of the country.

As long as you are groomed and act like the Gentleman you are, I see no problems.

I always do. I'm sort of old school. (It shocks some people sometimes).

I wish you well in your own personal growth experience, after all, we are human, and thus we have needs to be met in one fashion or another at different stages of our lives. Age, Looks, and wealth do not matter in the real world. As sure as you are sitting there wondering about these things, so are others!

Hmm, I guess that's what it is. I thought I would be spared this in my life, but I guess it's partly do to who I am on a deep level.
Really think there are others wondering about this too?

Gee, you can always open your own Forum for those who are mature adults that want to chat with others of similar backgrounds. That way you can Moderate your own forum and speak only to those you want to!

Hmm, maybe an idea for later...not bad actually. Except, I wonder how I do that? Could you provide me with a list of what I would need to set something like that up?

Brightest Blessings,
MerryBe

Thank you very much for your insight. You have sort of put me at ease about why this is happening to me. I still have many questions and much work to do.
However, I have begun that.

Thanks,

Isischild