War on the Young...

[Kaylara]

I had a disturbing revelation yesturday while listening to the Radio here. There was a court case in NJ where a high school kid wore a Marilyn Manson shirt to school and was suspended. The family sued the school because they said it violated his constitutional right of freedom of expression. The court found that the school has the right to regulate what children wear while in school. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with was the argument that was re-stated and justified over and over again. Children have NO rights, children have to EARN their civil rights. Doesn't the Constitution say that all men are created equal? (which was expanded to include women and those members of "minorities") Why are we so against the young in this country? Over and over again I hear how horrible kids are these days, how irresponsible, how criminal? Does anyone else see a problem with putting that kind of stigma on children and young adults? Do you as a parent believe the bullcrap that society is trying to feed you that your children have no right to think for themselves until they reach the age of 18? What is your take on this?

Kaylara

[Niamh]

This is a huge subject, and it's a tough one to tackle, especially for a sick gal... One thing that pops into my head are these teen with no rights being treated like idiots... who happen to get tried as adults by our justice system! What?! That doesn't make any sense to me.
I was a teen not too long ago, and I remember being treated like a second-class citizen. And still feel that way at times. I'm 23 years old, and a professional librarian, having completed many years of schooling. I love it when people come to the desk and ask if it's "Bring Your Daughter to Work Day" or if, to be funny, say that they didn't realize the public library hired teenagers to do reference work, ha ha. I have a teen working for me who does wonderful reference work! But I don't see her as a teen doing reference work; I see her as a library employee going above and beyond her call of duty to assist the public.
I have so many thoughts on the matter, that I think I should go organize them before I continue to write some incoherent manifesto!

[Kaylara]

*Bump*

:)

Kaylara

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Niamh
I was a teen not too long ago, and I remember being treated like a second-class citizen. And still feel that way at times. I'm 23 years old, and a professional librarian, having completed many years of schooling. I love it when people come to the desk and ask if it's "Bring Your Daughter to Work Day" or if, to be funny, say that they didn't realize the public library hired teenagers to do reference work, ha ha. I

I got carded for alcohol until I was over thirty--and unfortunately it wasn't because the clerk was being cute. I never looked my age, still don't actually, and I agree that can get tiresome, but I'm afraid that aspect doesn't change.

This particular subject is a pet peeve of mine (soapbox warning). My kids are 19 and 23, so I've been around teens quite a bit for the last ten years or so. It makes me very angry that just about the only kids that make the news are the ones in trouble. Normal, decent, hardworking kids, who far outnumber the ones in trouble, barely get noticed. Additionally, I think this attitude has bigger and more worrisome implications. As the teens are more and more isolated, the less and less they feel connected to society as a whole. There is no magic about turning 18 or 21--if they don't feel a part of society before those numbers they aren't going to afterward. I'm not surprised by the generational splits, I am worried by their existance.

Regards,

Maggie

[LaDaya]

It is sad seeing that many of the kids I know act more mature than the adults I know. I think it is more a personal issue with each kid. Sometimes they are ready to be adults and sometimes they're not... but the way they are treated is why many of them become what the adults say they are... You hear something enough times you start to believe it.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by LaDaya
It is sad seeing that many of the kids I know act more mature than the adults I know. I think it is more a personal issue with each kid. Sometimes they are ready to be adults and sometimes they're not... but the way they are treated is why many of them become what the adults say they are... You hear something enough times you start to believe it.

"Sometimes they are ready to be adults and sometimes they're not." Very good working definition of teens! I like kids--other than a few times I was ready to pay someone to take my son (!) their teen years were as interesting as any other age.

Maggie

[Lilu]

This might be slightly off the original topic, but I find that even though I'm 22 and my husband is 24, we are still getting looked down on by his family.

My husband's cousins are idiots. All the people in this family our age are just plain and simple - stupid, irresponsible, and idiotic. We don't act like them, we don't associate with them, in fact - most people think that my husband is his uncle's BROTHER, not nephew because of how mature we act in comparison to the others our age in this family.

Yet, irregardless of how we act, we are still lumped in with the idiots of the family BECAUSE OF OUR AGE! It pisses me off frankly. Heck, we are more mature in some ways than my husband's own uncles and aunts, yet they continue to disregard us and any sensible advice we might have on things that come up (or opinions we might have on a subject) because we are "young and don't know what we are talking about" - not to mention the old "you don't have as much experience as us".

[hopping on the soapbox]
Well I'm sorry, but if getting drunk, and remaining drunk for the first twenty years of your adult life, fathering (and mothering) children as teens and then teaching them the same bad habits you have, and continuing in this pattern until just 6 months ago when you get a wake up call means you have "more experience" than we who have worked, paid our own way, haven't had to live off our parents, and had responsible sex to prevent any unwanted pregnancies, and warrants you looking down on me as not knowing a thing I'm talking about, then screw you.

I'm so sick of getting looking down on as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. I read, I learn, I retain, I share my knowledge. I can point out all the future "problems" my husband's aunt is going to have with her now 10 month old in the future because of the way she disciplines (or fails to discipline) her child. And how can I do this? Because for the last year, in preparation for wanting to be a parent I have been studying how to raise a child instead of jumping into it blind, BUT because she is 10 years older than me, any advice I have to offer (even if I print out an article and hand it to her) gets tossed aside because I'm "only 22 and will never understand until I am a parent myself" Whatever!
[dismounting soapbox]

Well, that is TOTALLY off topic, but it's been weighing on me a bit lately. It's frustrating. And I'm not saying that everyone treats me like this, and I'm not trying to generalise, I'm talking about my inlaws specifically who treat me like the other cousins in this family who have systematically screwed up their lives - well I am not like them, but don't try to point that out - after all, I have no opinion, I am only 22, and I can't think for myself - I'm lucky I can even type this out...

On the topic of teens - I think they get a raw deal. The majority of teens have a lot to offer and only need the chance to show it. Some teens are just plain and simple idiots (I know one 13 year old offhand who is like this) but I agree with whoever said that it's about time the good kids got some publicity. In my high school, in a country that's known for "cutting down the tall poppies" we still got recognition for being intelligent young adults through the local and sometimes national media. I'd like to see more of that here. It needs to start happening.

lilu

[rantnraven]

It is often the case that "The System" will use one to make an example to the others. This has gone on for generations and will continue. I have, even in my thirties, been used as an example.

I can understand, to a degree, why they regulate the attire of teens in school. Many gangs associate themselves by certain clothing. Thus, stripping them of that, they have a new association with the others. Drug abusers often have certain clothes they wear when they use and buy drugs - "using clothes", it's called.

However, to suspend someone for this fact, on the FIRST offense would be wrong and deliver the wrong message. Ultimately to continue this practice will cause harm (and most of you know me well enough to know that I am an advocate of the Reede).

I have no children but, I was a teen once (which means I'm talking out of my a&&) but, there has to be rules only, those rules need be applied with a little finesse and thought.

At school, there are rules. At work, there are rule. We all have to follow them. After school/work, do what you want. Period.

My thoughts!

RnR

[Kaylara]

I think that this really hit home the other day something that I have been thinking about for a long time. (My mother once said to me in a heated argument about her screaming at my brother, that I was a kid and didn't know anything. I dispute that. I think that I know a great deal about life, though I know that I don't know everything. Part of a teens life is being constantly told that they know nothing, but think that they know everything. Of course a kid is going to act like they know everything! Everyone is telling them that they are stupid, that is how they retaliate. By dismissing kids and telling them that they know nothing, you are discrediting their intellegence. Children are smarter than anyone gives them credit for, and I know plenty of instances where the child seems to have more common sense than their parents.
The way this country works makes children feel even more isolated. There are tons of regulations that effect kids that they have no say over because they are not allowed to vote on these issues. The general public seems to think that ALL children and teens are stupid, getting high, screwing around in school, and screwing around period. There are over 40 million children in this country. That is almost 1/5 of the population!!
(There are 250 million people in this country) And these are people who are shown that their opinion means nothing, and that they are too stupid to know anything about life.
Once again, I am 19. I hold down a full time job, pay all of my own bills, work with civil rights groups, pagan organizations, and pay for much of the basic needs of my two little brothers (clothing, toys, school supplies, food. I even help them with their homework.) But I know nothing. I have been doing this since I was 16 and held my first job. But I have no idea what life is like! Many of the people who I work with are amazed at how young I am... Why? Why do they think that someone who is young can't hold a job with a lot of responsibility? Because of this stereotyping... I am sick of it. Remember, the kids of today will be running the country tomorrow.

*pant* *pant*
(Stepping off the soapbox)

Kaylara

[Niamh]

You Go! Woman!
Teens get a raw deal. Only misbehaved teens are held up as an example of teen America. Teens are stereotyped as being kids who don't know a thing who think that they know everything. No, it's not fair! I only hope that we can try to open people's eyes a bit.
And Lilu- I can relate to you. Being a children's Librarian, I do story hours with children as well as other programming. Some of the mothers are just so amazed that someone my age who doesn't have kids could do such a good job! Like, wow!
Give me a break. I'll stop before I go off on a tirade

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Lilu
I can point out all the future "problems" my husband's aunt is going to have with her now 10 month old in the future because of the way she disciplines (or fails to discipline) her child. And how can I do this? Because for the last year, in preparation for wanting to be a parent I have been studying how to raise a child instead of jumping into it blind, BUT because she is 10 years older than me, any advice I have to offer (even if I print out an article and hand it to her) gets tossed aside because I'm "only 22 and will never understand until I am a parent myself" Whatever!
[dismounting soapbox]




Uh, just what kind of discipline do you think is appropriate for a 10 month old baby?

And, I suspect you might be running into more than just age differences here. When I had my first child, my youngest sister did pretty much as you have--but without listening to what I had to say in return--like, I already read that and it doesn't work with him, or my pediatrician doesn't agree with that, or he's not ready yet, no matter what that authority says.........I was pretty much reduced to telling her I was the parent not her. It wasn't a matter of age, but the fact that she gave me no standing at all in the matter of raising the child unless I agreed with what she was telling me. And, I hate to tell you this but there are some aspects of child raising that do only come with actually doing it. I swore I wouldn't do the same things my parents did--but when I had mine after awhile I realized I was, and no this wasn't entirely a bad thing. Even if I ended up doing things differently I sure understood where my parents had been coming from. Don't be so quick to dismiss the hands on experience as opposed to 'book' knowledge.......

Regards,

Maggie

[Kaylara]

I agree with you on the experience point Maggie. I don't agree that age means experience though. I think that there are a lot of people who do equate knowledge/experience with the old and flakiness to the young. As I have stated, I am young, but responsible, independent, and intellegent. The general public seems to think that all children are stupid or have no common sense. They think that all young people are rude idiots. I've had older women (we're talking elderly) tell me how amazed they were when I held the door for them, or treated them with respect. Not all kids are hoodlums. I actually read in my little sisters high school newspaper a rant that was almost identical to the one that started this thread.
This shows me that even the kids who are younger than me understand this bad rap that they have, and don't like it.

Kaylara

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Kaylara
I agree with you on the experience point Maggie. I don't agree that age means experience though. I think that there are a lot of people who do equate knowledge/experience with the old and flakiness to the young. As I have stated, I am young, but responsible, independent, and intellegent. The general public seems to think that all children are stupid or have no common sense. They think that all young people are rude idiots. I've had older women (we're talking elderly) tell me how amazed they were when I held the door for them, or treated them with respect. Not all kids are hoodlums. I actually read in my little sisters high school newspaper a rant that was almost identical to the one that started this thread.
This shows me that even the kids who are younger than me understand this bad rap that they have, and don't like it.

Kaylara

Age does mean experience, age DOESN'T mean wisdom. Experience does come with age, it's the only way to get it. Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with ANY age. Age simply means one has lived a long time and there should be recognition of that fact--and the flip side here for me is that I can get dissed simply BECAUSE I'm not young and get no credit for experience (and of course I don't know what I'm talking about!)! You get irritated because people dismiss you because of age, but those same young people can dismiss me for the same reason!

Actually, the generational split goes waaaaaay further back. I forget just which of the ancient Greek biggies wrote it, but one of them wrote a piece bemoaning the decline of the younger generation. If it was printed today in contemporary English everyone would assume it WAS contemporary. :D

Regards,

Maggie

[Niamh]

That would be "On Old Age" by Cicero. And you're right, it reads like it was written yesterday. Or tomorrow.
I think that age, like gender and race, will always be an issue with people. Whether it be you're too young, or too old, or what have you. It's a strange thing. And I think males and females might experience age-ism or discrimination differently. At least my brother never seemed to have the same sort of experiences that I did.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Niamh
That would be "On Old Age" by Cicero. And you're right, it reads like it was written yesterday. Or tomorrow.
I think that age, like gender and race, will always be an issue with people. Whether it be you're too young, or too old, or what have you. It's a strange thing. And I think males and females might experience age-ism or discrimination differently. At least my brother never seemed to have the same sort of experiences that I did.

Yeah, I'm afraid so. People seem to think males grow up faster than women--if they ever believe women grow up.

Regards,

Maggie

[MoonWolf]

It amuses me to hear that people think that males mature faster than females when every teacher I have ever had and most programs and state that a teenage female will reach a level of maturity before the male (no offense to those males out there). A good book that brought me to tears with laughter that shows this in a chapter of the book is "Fatherhood" written by bill Cosby. Nevertheless the female is always associated with childlike.. and it has been that way for long time. In fact much of what is considered to be feminine beauty is features that mimic that of a child.. big eyes, fragile, rosy cheeks, pouty lips.. and many more. In fact there was a craze going around when I was in junior highschool where girls were sucking on baby pacifiers. There are items made for teenage girls that are specifically cutesy. It all made me sick when I was in school!
It is particularly bad when a woman is baby faced. I am 20 years old, but people think I look several years younger because I have a very youthful round face. I suspect I will forward to many years of being carded *LOL*
As for the freedom of teens, well that is a complicated issue. As a teen i believed that it was unfair that until you reached an adult age you had no say and no rights. You are basically property of your parents. for example if my mother had died when I was a teen I most likely would have been given to my father no matter how loudy I protested otherwise if I desired to live with someone else.

As for the subject of rearing a child. Now this is something I do have to say. I thought I knew alot about raising children.. I spent my teen years helping to raise three babies (two sisters and a baby brother). And from observing, reading and helping with them I thought I had the whole baby thing pinned down and developed my own ideas and who was doing what wrong. Well then i had a baby myself (not out of irresponsibility but because it managed to get around the birth control.. you know that 1% probablility of getting pregnant.. well my daughter is that 1% *LOL*). Well everything that I had thought I had known and was so sure of got blown out of the water. We tend to forget that what works for one baby is not the rule for all babies, they are individuals and they will show you that rather quickly. I swore I wasn't going to have a spoiled baby.. well all my careful planning got blown to hell that is causing problems now of her wanting to take food off of our plates, wanting to drink out of our cups. We did it to ourselves. the point here is that there is alot you learn from actual experience that you never even knew was possible. i get tired of people telling me how to raise my baby.. what i should or should not do. some of it is from people with children, some of it is from people without children.. all of the info is from people of a variety of ages. when in all actuality I am the one who knows what will and will not work with my baby.. alot of this info gathered from my personal trial and error.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by MoonWolf
It amuses me to hear that people think that males mature faster than females when every teacher I have ever had and most programs and state that a teenage female will reach a level of maturity before the male (no offense to those males out there).




I got told the same thing by my son's teachers once in awhile, and observed it myself. :)

Nevertheless the female is always associated with childlike.. and it has been that way for long time. In fact much of what is considered to be feminine beauty is features that mimic that of a child.. big eyes, fragile, rosy cheeks, pouty lips.. and many more. In fact there was a craze going around when I was in junior highschool where girls were sucking on baby pacifiers. There are items made for teenage girls that are specifically cutesy. It all made me sick when I was in school!


I'm afraid my daughter and her friends played with that briefly--I was all the more astonished because she was an all-A science major and played varsity lacrosse.



It is particularly bad when a woman is baby faced. I am 20 years old, but people think I look several years younger because I have a very youthful round face. I suspect I will forward to many years of being carded *LOL*


I suffered from the same thing--and I can assure you that you will! :)


As for the freedom of teens, well that is a complicated issue. As a teen i believed that it was unfair that until you reached an adult age you had no say and no rights. You are basically property of your parents. for example if my mother had died when I was a teen I most likely would have been given to my father no matter how loudy I protested otherwise if I desired to live with someone else.

Um, depends. I found when I divorced that teen children are consulted about who they live with.

As for the subject of rearing a child. Now this is something I do have to say. I thought I knew alot about raising children.. I spent my teen years helping to raise three babies (two sisters and a baby brother). And from observing, reading and helping with them I thought I had the whole baby thing pinned down and developed my own ideas and who was doing what wrong. Well then i had a baby myself (not out of irresponsibility but because it managed to get around the birth control.. you know that 1% probablility of getting pregnant.. well my daughter is that 1% *LOL*). Well everything that I had thought I had known and was so sure of got blown out of the water. We tend to forget that what works for one baby is not the rule for all babies, they are individuals and they will show you that rather quickly. I swore I wasn't going to have a spoiled baby.. well all my careful planning got blown to hell that is causing problems now of her wanting to take food off of our plates, wanting to drink out of our cups. We did it to ourselves. the point here is that there is alot you learn from actual experience that you never even knew was possible. i get tired of people telling me how to raise my baby.. what i should or should not do. some of it is from people with children, some of it is from people without children.. all of the info is from people of a variety of ages. when in all actuality I am the one who knows what will and will not work with my baby.. alot of this info gathered from my personal trial and error.



ROFL...........EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sunny:

Maggie

[MoonWolf]

Actually I was speaking specifically of death, when one parent dies, the other parent would get you before a grandparent, aunt, uncle or friend of the family.. and nothing the teen could do would most likely be able to keep from living with the other parent. But then again I could be wrong, it was just always a paranoia of mine after i actually lived with my father. It is true that teens are given the choice of who they want to live with when there is a divorce. I wasn't give a choice when my parents divorced because I was only two. And thankfully I was given to my mother. After one year of living with my father I found living with my mother a small blessing :) Unfortunately not all court decisions on who a small child goes to are the best decisions... particularly when the judge tends to favor the children going to a parent because of their gender rather than looking at the parent itself.

[Kaylara]

Bump

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Thanks for bumping this Kaylara. :) I don't think I saw this one.

The USA is one of only a few countries that will not sign a "Childrens' Bill of Rights" sponsered by the UN, I think. I don't know what they take offence to that is in it. Children have no rights in this country because there are too many control freak idiots running our country that believe they know what is good for everyone. Of course there are the people who believe them that vote for them. And to me this all comes down to people not thinking for themselves.

Now to be the devils advocate. I think the best thing that comes from this is that the parents are held lible for thier children. If a child commits a crime, even murder, it should be the parent on trial and the child should go through councilling. I know some children get tried as adults and in some cases I think its OK. A sixteen year old does know if they are killing someone, unless mentally impared. But the parents should be sittiing there getting tried alongside them. It is thier fault this child has grown up to think that action was neccessary. It was they who didn't provide for thier child so they could grow up healthy. Even the incident at Columbine, the parents said they didn't know that thier son would do that. They were too busy with thier own lives to care, too busy to have conversations with them and talk about things and push the subject. They probably thought talking to thier kid was something like "How was school honey?" "Same shit new day" "OK dear why don't you go unwind?'' As teenager heads off to work on his racist web site and send threats via email. If the parnt is even there. Parents are ultimately to blame and should be the bearer of the guilt.

Granted our society doesn't support good parenting but I'm not going to wait till it does. I listen to my heart for what is good for my children and they always, ALWAYS, are my top priority. If it is not in thier best interest, no matter how much my husband moans about not getting to do something or I don't like it, I stand my ground and its not gooing to happen. Children are treated like second class citizens but not in my house. My children know they are very much loved and that there is always someone there for them. My wish is that it would be that way in every house in the world but I can't be Mommy to everyone.

I know I'm a bit disjointed and everywhere but this is not an easy subject. I hope when my kids are teenagers they will be independent and mature enough to make their own decisions and choose wisely. I hope I can give them as much freedom as possible and they at least let me know who and where they are going.

For you teenagers reading this and don't have the support at home. We, as a community, are here for you and will always listen and try to help. We have been there and have had the same experiences. We are shoulders to cry on and provide applause for your achievements. You are not alone.

[tempest69]

I know all about this. Even though I am a good natured teen, they see me as a destructive ball of male hormones. No one ever stands up for the "little guy". Thanx for helping to bring this travesty into the light!

[Kaylara]

Originally posted by SAHM
My wish is that it would be that way in every house in the world but I can't be Mommy to everyone.


Ahh how many times I have thought the same thing... Sometimes I just feel like if I could just do more, if I could give everyone I meet a big hug, and tell them how much I appreciate the fact that they are alive, that things would be a lot better. I was a very angry teen when I was younger. I wanted to help everyone in the world, and saw older people as being disillusioned, "it'll never happen" etc... I still feel this way to an extent... I want to help everyone that I can, but it seems like such a daunting task because there are so many forces that are against it. People who care only to make money and gain status, hate groups, etc... I can't stand that crap... The only reason that I want to make more money is so that I can help more people, and take care of those who are most important to me. I wanted to open an orphange when I was about 15, so that I could make sure that those kids could never be hurt by a-hole foster parents, or their own parents... I've seen so many friends abused, and go through mental, physical and emotional hell because of "The System". I want to have a REAL Humane society, where animals aren't just killed after a week, or if they are of the "wrong breed". There are so many things that I want to do, but I cannot do them all by myself. It's just frustrating that so many "ex-hippies" turned on their morals, and are now giants of capitalism, who don't give a flying-frigg about people... :(

Sorry for the rant, but I really think that kids have more of a bad attitude because many of them can see that they have a ton of potential to change the world, but can't... This turns them into bitter disillusioned adults... They also see the world that we are going to inheret going to crap, and can't do anything about that either...

Kaylara

[~*Mar C*~]

I wanted to post a reply to this thread, being that I'm only 17 myself, but then I just kinda lost and confused myself while reading the posts after Kaylara's. Let's see if I can work out what I want to say here. If this is confusing for you, just as for clarification and I'll clarify as well as i possibly can.

I believe teens aren't given the recognition they deserve. Many teens I know have so much to deal with. Many of them only have 1 parent, or if they have both parents present in the home, they both work full-time. It's a rare thing for me to meet a teenager that has both parents home. Or even one.

With that said, teenagers have a lot more resposiblities than older people are willing to give them credit for. If they have parents that work, they're responsible for taking care of younger siblings and themselves. Which makes me think of something else.

Nowadays (now I sound real old, eep!), even younger kids have to look after themselves while their parents work. My sister and I have been watching my two younger brothers while my parents have been working full-time since I was in at least 4th or 5th grade. My sister and I have also been given many more resposiblities around the house.

I really think that I've deviated from the topic... haven't I? I think I'm going to stop now. If anyone happens to think I haven't deviated too much, let me know if you want me to continue. I could go on forever on this topic. :P

[widukind]

Hmm... about the US not signing the Children's Bill Of Rights... there are also no laws on privacy, am I not right? This is also kind of strange. Here in Belgium, there's both of the above and freedom of religion, but I guess technically, in the US, they could find out what religion you belong to ( legally, that is) because of the right to information, and if they do not like the results fire you or never hire you in the first place. This seems mighty strange.

But back to kids, I have read accounts where kids got expelled not only for wearing different clothes, but for every variation fro the norm. Different religion, musical taste, higher intelligence, rebellious political views, hobbies that not everyone has, one solution through the zero tolerance policy: expelling the student. This seems strange in a so called domocracy. And don't even get me started on the president chosing his own secretaries...

I feel the rights of kids are important, and though I am only eighteen myself, I don't feel kids are inferior in any way. Well, that's not really right, I do feel some of the kids are totally rotten, but that's because they get a taught no respect for older peeps (even those that are only three years older), have mouths that are way too big and they talk sh*t about everyone.

But never mind that - kids need their rights and their wisdom and experience, how little they may have, sometimes, should be respected. Besides, some matters are more easily seen through by children than adults, so that should not be ignored.

That's my version - cheers !

Brightest Blessings!

Widukind

[clef0628]

Kids under 18 have no rights under the law. They really don't. That's what I learn in my law classes. They should have something. My High School, in NJ, was stick on what you could wear. No hat, no music t-shirts, ect. Girl can't show their belly button. (Girls had fun with this. They use to pull up there paints to cover the button, but still show a little belly.) My school, just made you put on a school sweat shirt for the day until you went home. Only if you repeated, did you really get it troblue.
One other thing I really hate have to do with age. In NJ if you under 25 they chagre like you twice as much driving insurance because they believe your not reposable yet.

Steven

[Kaylara]

Ahh NJ... The armpit of the country... Seriously, I had teachers who had a problem with me, but I knew enough of them to keep me out of trouble. Some of the older teachers liked my attitude because I didn't buy into the High School Popularity crap... I didn't respect those people who thought that they were better than me, and I let them know it. I always showed my teachers respect, not because it was demanded of me, but because the deserved it. And for that, I got respect in return. I stood up for teachers when people in the class were a**holes to them.
So much for kids all being hooligans!

Kaylara

[MammaStar]

I think what could also help teens get better respect, if that instead of only showing the bad, show all the good things they do. My son is 9, he attends Kung Fu classes locally, (he's a red belt). There are plenty of teens who do really good things for the community. In fact, part of their test to become a black sash is that they have to do some sort of community project. If fact, one of our former graduates, some of you may know. His name is John Daly, and he was on Freeks & Geeks, and Boston Public. He's a good kid, actor, very soft spoken and respectful.

The past few weeks, I've seen plenty of teens good do things, from helping an eldery lady at the grocery store (one of the clerks), to cleaning up an area for some local kids to play in. These stories need to be shown more. People automatically because of some horrible examples, feel teenagers are rude, crude, and violent. Unfortuneately, it's been that way for many, many many years. Greasers in the 50s, Hippies in the 60's, punkers in the 70's, metalheads in the 80's, etc. Just a cycle that goes on & on.

I think we should in all our own communites, try and focus on the good, and pressure our local media to do the same, we can help change the way most people look at young people today. One thing definitely, needs to be done, is the good kids should not give up. Keep speaking out for yourselves, and protect your rights. it's the only way things will change.

[gurlygurl2004]

This is a huge subject, and it's a tough one to tackle, especially for a sick gal... One thing that pops into my head are these teen with no rights being treated like idiots... who happen to get tried as adults by our justice system! What?! That doesn't make any sense to me.
I was a teen not too long ago, and I remember being treated like a second-class citizen. And still feel that way at times. I'm 23 years old, and a professional librarian, having completed many years of schooling. I love it when people come to the desk and ask if it's "Bring Your Daughter to Work Day" or if, to be funny, say that they didn't realize the public library hired teenagers to do reference work, ha ha. I have a teen working for me who does wonderful reference work! But I don't see her as a teen doing reference work; I see her as a library employee going above and beyond her call of duty to assist the public.
I have so many thoughts on the matter, that I think I should go organize them before I continue to write some incoherent manifesto!


I noticed that too I'm 22, and I feel like I have no rights sometimes, and what is it about our society that they want to keep the children young? I mean not only do we have a system set up where kids are encouraged or forced to go to college for 4 years after getting through high school. But the housing and job markets make it very hard for these teens/young adults to move out on their own and really become adults. I mean even earlier last century 18-25 year old became adults and weren't really allowed to live under their parents' roof, now, it's like even 25-30 year olds are obligated to stay in a teen/post teen life. Oh the humanity:geez:

[gurlygurl2004]

I wanted to post a reply to this thread, being that I'm only 17 myself, but then I just kinda lost and confused myself while reading the posts after Kaylara's. Let's see if I can work out what I want to say here. If this is confusing for you, just as for clarification and I'll clarify as well as i possibly can.

I believe teens aren't given the recognition they deserve. Many teens I know have so much to deal with. Many of them only have 1 parent, or if they have both parents present in the home, they both work full-time. It's a rare thing for me to meet a teenager that has both parents home. Or even one.

With that said, teenagers have a lot more resposiblities than older people are willing to give them credit for. If they have parents that work, they're responsible for taking care of younger siblings and themselves. Which makes me think of something else.

Nowadays (now I sound real old, eep!), even younger kids have to look after themselves while their parents work. My sister and I have been watching my two younger brothers while my parents have been working full-time since I was in at least 4th or 5th grade. My sister and I have also been given many more resposiblities around the house.

I really think that I've deviated from the topic... haven't I? I think I'm going to stop now. If anyone happens to think I haven't deviated too much, let me know if you want me to continue. I could go on forever on this topic. :P


Go ahead tell us more.

[Pesha]

I live in Utah. Doing a banning on a tee shirt is everday stanard operating proceedure here. With the Mormon religion and it's very narrow take on good and bad, teens here face anning of clothes and jewlery all the time. We just had a case where a girland a boy in different school wore tee with logo on them and....not even rock or drug related....and were told to go home and change. It is sad to me to think when my grandson reaches a certain age, his parents will have to censor his clothing and what it says.

For the record, the tee shirt on the girl in question said.....SAVED. But school dress code law only allows for plain tees. Kids here defy the rules on a daily basis. Thats's life here. So you deal with it.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Wow this is an old thread yet it is still very relevent. I know my boyfriends neice is dealing with stuff like this. She is 17 and will be 18 in Sept yet she is alternately treated as a child and an adult. When she is constantly treated as a kid and gets frustrated and lashes out they tell her she should be acting like an adult. The day that she turns 18 they will treat her as if she is an adult and not a second before unless it is something they want such as taking care of three very young children while sick. :(

[WokeUpDead]

I noticed that too I'm 22, and I feel like I have no rights sometimes, and what is it about our society that they want to keep the children young? I mean not only do we have a system set up where kids are encouraged or forced to go to college for 4 years after getting through high school. But the housing and job markets make it very hard for these teens/young adults to move out on their own and really become adults. I mean even earlier last century 18-25 year old became adults and weren't really allowed to live under their parents' roof, now, it's like even 25-30 year olds are obligated to stay in a teen/post teen life. Oh the humanity:geez:
Old people run the country. They don't care about young'uns.

[gurlygurl2004]

Old people run the country. They don't care about young'uns.


Yeah, and speaking of that my small, not very economically sound town is full of old people. My 'rents are seriously old, my dad just turned 64, and my town is currently ran by my former elementary school principal, and I thought he was old back then because he had gray hair! Anyway, I also find this predicament ironic because the old envy the young, because it's still highly valued in our society.