The New Age and NeoPaganism

[MorningDove030202]

I was talking with some people at my local Pagan Pride day and they suggested that the name of the event be chainged to "New Age Pride Day" to get more acceptance for it from outsiders and I had a hard time explaining to them that NeoPagan isn't New Age. Can anyone here help me out with explaining the difference? The one difference I can point out is that there are New Age Christians which isn't the topic of Pagan Pride Day.

Dove

[PropheticMonkey]

Heres what I've picked up:

New Age just refers to the group of young people (teens and young adults) whg want a soolid religous base in their lives. but did not want to conform to their particular religous instutiton. For example:

I know someone who found his Jewish identity. He started to read the Torah daily and began to actually celebrate the holidays rather than just doignlip service like most other people. But when he started going to temple, he HATED it. The services were boring, lifeless, and had barley anything to do with the religon at all. It was one long, winded speech one after the other without any sort of clear topic, going from religous values in one sentence to politics and fund raisers the next. HE stopped going to these services, but continued to practice. This has made my freind a New Age Jew.

NeoPagan is just the New Age Pagan/Wiccan religon. Thats all there is to it. If its a pagan pride thing then make it should be about pagans specifically and not other "new age" religons.

I hope thiat helped in some small way. Blessings and good will upon thee!

[LostSheep]

Bah... New Age: vague stuff about crystals. Paganism... um... try summing that up in one sentence.

[LadyCelt]

I don't really even understand what new age is really. I think its just a way to gorup things. When I see books with the title including Paganism in new age, I'm a bit dumbfounded. I mean, Paganism is not new at all.

And, books talking about the elements and candle magick and herbs and crystals isn't new age to me either.

I think I asked aobut Lilith once at the book store, and I was directed to new age. Ok, this is about what some argue is the first woman before Eve and she is "new age" to you?


I would say yes it may attrack some people, but it may keep some away.

[Toby Stimpson]

I must disagree. First off, may I just say that the whole 'New Age' movement started at the SAME TIME as modern Wicca did. I think, New Age has become a very varied thing...however at the same time you could say that about NeoPaganism. At the beginning, the "New Age' was basicly the movement of eastern ideas into the west. Before, did we really have the ideas about crystals or certain practices as Reiki as we do now? Sue, you cxan say it's vague, but at the same time it's vague becasue a LOT of stuff was coming over. Secondly we might say Neopaganism is part of the new age movement, becasue a lot of NeoPagan sects and traditions draw on certain things like astral travel, or crystal healing...and so on that were originally seen as New Age. The whole basis of the New Age movement is that we are slowly coming into the age of Aqaurius (or are we in the age of aqaurius) which is to do with astrology...and that this age is an age of peace and so on. Some of the things I admit are hookey, but others we are quite close to as neoPagans...so i wouldnt raise your noses at it. Perhaps what would be a better thing for Pagan pride day would be calling it "alternative spirituality" or even have a compltly different day for that. I know when i came to the soemwhat similar day here in Toronto a few weeks ago, there was classes on Numerology...which again is a new age thing. Hope that didnt sound blahish...anyways, good question!

Namaste :)

Tobias

[Gnoblod]

Neopaganism draws a lot from the "New Age" movements. Crystals, reincarnation (as most neopagans understand it), karma, etc.

If the event in question is specifically geared towards pagans influenced by New Age concepts rather than just New Age stuff, though, I don't see the reason for any change.

[Elaethril]

Wikipedia says:

New Age describes a broad movement of late twentieth century and contemporary Western culture characterised by an individual eclectic approach to spiritual exploration. It has some attributes of a new, emerging religion but is currently a loose network of spiritual seekers, teachers, healers and other participants. The name "New Age" also refers to the market segment in which goods and services are sold to people in the movement.

Rather than follow the lead of an organised religion, "New Agers" typically construct their own spiritual journey based on material taken as needed from the mystical traditions of all the worlds religions as well as shamanism, neopaganism and occultism. Participants are likely to dip into many diverse teachings and practises, some mainstream and some fringe, and formulate their own beliefs and practices based on their experiences in each. No clear membership or rigid boundaries actually exist. The movement is most visible where its ideas are traded--for example in specialist bookshops, music stores, and fairs.

I don't think that sums it up entirely but explains that it's just a very general label. Personally, I don't know of *anyone* who defines their worship as being new age - in this day and age, it's much more a marketing label than anything.

I produce a 'new age' radio program and the label drives me nuts since it totally does not represent the kind of music I play. Most people hear new age and think tinkly piano music with bad synthesizers. I play *good* tinkly piano music with synthesizers. :thumbsup:

[Agaliha]

From ReligiousTolerance.org: http://www.religioustolerance.org/newage.htm


Gnoblod:
Neopaganism draws a lot from the "New Age" movements. Crystals, reincarnation (as most neopagans understand it), karma, etc.
Things that are "new-age" aren't really new to begin with. They are old ideas from many older faiths and beliefs wrapped in a new package with new terms to zip it up.
Reincarnation: From Hinduism among many others
Karma: Hinduism, Buddhism
Crystals: I don't know the specific faiths but the use of crystals for various things has been going on for a very long time.

I think the New Age movement as brought these things to light and in a slightly different way than in the faiths and beliefs they originated in. But these ideas and beliefs are not new.

[Gnoblod]

They are to us. We're not Asians.

[Toby Stimpson]

Well historicly they are not new...Europeans have been in the east for upwards of three hundred years and have been exposed....but they are more popular and more well known...

Tobias

[Gnoblod]

Historically they are new, as our (Western, European, white, whatever) ideas in the same vein were around for thousands of years before neopagans adopted foreign versions of similar concepts in the modern day.

:crystalba

[Toby Stimpson]

I wonder though how much of what we think is "ours" is actually ours. I suppose in some traditions...but others are completly ripped off from as you call it 'foreign'....besides If I may ask, did you know that the concept of monotheism is in fact a 'foreign' concept...yet we look at some Neopagans and they are outright monotheists...

Namaste

Tobias

[Gnoblod]

Well, there we go. A lot of neopaganism is European on the surface, but if you pull the Romantic Window-Dressing of Yore leaves off the pond, you see a lot of Semitic and Asian substance that's been poured through a modern filter.

[Toby Stimpson]

I don't really understand what your argument is...

[jcldragon]

I began studying White Magic in 1967. In 1969 I added a study of the I Ching. All my life I have alternated studies between Eastern & Western traditions. So I called myself a New Ager. Over all this time I've seen various varieties of The Path become popular for awhile, and then become superceded by something else.

During the last few years, almost all of the people I have met who are on The Path are Pagans, except for a few Buddhists & Taoists. I figure that with the means of studying everything that is wise that was developed as separate Traditions in the past, that we ought to avail ourselves. It will give us a more comprehensive vision, than was possible in earlier times.

I've seen Pagans say that anything that isn't an Abrahamic Tradition is Pagan. So that definition would make Hinduism, Buddhism, & Taoism varieties of Pagan Traditions. Of course, there are also Pagans who study Qabala. It's not about the words anyway. It's about what the words point at.

I've always felt a strong connection to the plant world and the planet we live on. That has increased significantly of late, so I changed the title by my avatar from New Age Dragon, to Dragon of Gaia. My affinity for dragons stems from 32 years of practicing Tai Chi Kung Fu, and my love for the Pern novels by Anne McCaffrey.

[Gnoblod]

I guess my argument is that neopaganism and New Age are non-identical twins.

[Elderbush]

I think that New Agers are spiritualists who are searching for something they haven't found yet and so they try out new things from other cultures, taken out of context, hoping to find the thing that fits the empty place. Pagans have found a religion that suits them, at least for the time being.

Does that fit?

[Gnoblod]

Isn't pagan religion, in general, made of parts taken from other cultures that seem to fit the individual? Like Samhain being taken from Celtic cultures and made into a general "night of the dead", and reincarnation taken from Asian cultures?

[Toby Stimpson]

Well to say New Age = NeoPaganism...and NeoPaganism = New Age would be false....but you are right, a lot of what we think is neopagan now and a lot of what fills our books are taken from other cultures...at the same time though, as others have said I wonder if soem things are not universal...Goddess worship is universal...the use of sacred rocks or the attributing of certain things to rocks is worldwide...astrology existed in the west for thousands of years...but new age covers all of these. Hmmm...

Namaste

Tobias

[juliaki]

Recently a group up in Long Island got themselves in a bit of a snafu when they booked a Knights of Columbus hall for their "new age expo." The KoC had no problem with having a new age expo in their building, but then when the KoC saw the ads for the event, they were troubled. The focus was not on what would have been thought of as new agey stuff (crystals, meditation workshops, maybe even a bit of tarot, etc.), but was focused on Pagan and witchcraft teachings and exercises, culminating in a big witchcraft ritual at the end. The KoC promptly said this was breech of contract (which I do think it was), and the event was moved elsewhere.

That's something to keep in mind about changing the name of an event....what is your focus going to be. Take a good, hard look at what is provided at the event. Is it New Age? (Do you have people who will channel aliens at the event? Will there be crystals charged with Atlantean energy there? Will it be more focused on development of the self along with the elevation of all life forms to higher vibrational levels?) Or will it be more Pagan-themed? (Will there be formal rituals? Will your speakers give you dirty looks if you call them "new age"? What topics will be covered?)

Personally, I prefer "Pagan Awareness Days" to "Pagan Pride Days". IMO, people who would attend these events to show their pride already have enough pride that they don't need an event to umph it up. On the other hand, it can be a great educational outreach to the community at large...thus an awareness day. On the other other hand, you might get some folks who think that it is an event to spread the words about the eeeeeeeevils of Paganism. Might create for an interesting mixed bag of attendees.

[MorningDove030202]

Yes I see your point here, and I agree you can't call a Pagan event New Age. I wish that Pagan Pride Day were more educational, I thought that was the point to educate nonPagans but the one I've been going to for 3 years realy doesn't provide anything for outsiders to learn from. Next year I'm going to write my own thing and hand it out to protesters.
Dove

Recently a group up in Long Island got themselves in a bit of a snafu when they booked a Knights of Columbus hall for their "new age expo." The KoC had no problem with having a new age expo in their building, but then when the KoC saw the ads for the event, they were troubled. The focus was not on what would have been thought of as new agey stuff (crystals, meditation workshops, maybe even a bit of tarot, etc.), but was focused on Pagan and witchcraft teachings and exercises, culminating in a big witchcraft ritual at the end. The KoC promptly said this was breech of contract (which I do think it was), and the event was moved elsewhere.

That's something to keep in mind about changing the name of an event....what is your focus going to be. Take a good, hard look at what is provided at the event. Is it New Age? (Do you have people who will channel aliens at the event? Will there be crystals charged with Atlantean energy there? Will it be more focused on development of the self along with the elevation of all life forms to higher vibrational levels?) Or will it be more Pagan-themed? (Will there be formal rituals? Will your speakers give you dirty looks if you call them "new age"? What topics will be covered?)

Personally, I prefer "Pagan Awareness Days" to "Pagan Pride Days". IMO, people who would attend these events to show their pride already have enough pride that they don't need an event to umph it up. On the other hand, it can be a great educational outreach to the community at large...thus an awareness day. On the other other hand, you might get some folks who think that it is an event to spread the words about the eeeeeeeevils of Paganism. Might create for an interesting mixed bag of attendees.

[Elderbush]

Isn't pagan religion, in general, made of parts taken from other cultures that seem to fit the individual? Like Samhain being taken from Celtic cultures and made into a general "night of the dead", and reincarnation taken from Asian cultures?

I think most religions borrow good ideas from each other when they happen across them, stir in their own culture and needs, and make it uniquely their own.

The idea of karma for example. A New Ager would say "bad karma" and not really know what they are talking about. A Wiccan would mutter about the Law of Return. Same idea, but different, adapted to the Wiccan religion.