A question about Elemental Correspondences

[BabyBird]

This was inspired by the "What element aren't you? (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=112056)" thread. I didn't post this there b/c I was worried it'd come off as arrogant or argumentative.

I've never quite understood the correspondence between elements and human traits. I mean, I know that air is communication, earth is stability, etc, but I don't really understand why anyone ever bothered to connect the elements to anything.

I'm also a little bothered by the fact that anyone would bother to connect the elements to human traits. It sounds arrogant to me.

Can anyone suggest a place I can find the origin of the elemental correspondences? Or, does anyone agree or disagree with me, and if so, why?

[Mouse]

Hmm, I see where you're comming from with this, I guess it's just another way we relate to the world around us, our faiths and each other.

The better your understanding of yourself is, the better you can relate to other people. Testing the elements you correspond with can also be a form of meditation. It shouldn't be something you where you say "oh i love to swim so I must be water" it's something you really have to think about.

I disagree with you about it being arrogant, because everything is just energy, we are just saying what kind of energy we are more like. (this is just my opinion though, i'm prolly wrong)

It's a good question though!
~miriam

[Dragonladyofwater]

Elemental correspondances are all over the zodiac, can be found in numerology and several other tools that describe us humans. I don't think someone who describes themself as a fire person is saying they are as powerful as the element itself, they are saying they relate to this element best. Which I do not find arrogant at all. We all have areas in life that we work with better than others. or areas we find commonality in more than others.

Actually if you break us down to our base parts we are elemental. We run on air with every breath, without fire we would not survive the cold, without earth we would starve, without water we die of dehydration, without spirit we are no more. So in this line of thought we are all elemental beings.

[DebLipp]

I've never quite understood the correspondence between elements and human traits. I mean, I know that air is communication, earth is stability, etc, but I don't really understand why anyone ever bothered to connect the elements to anything.

I'm also a little bothered by the fact that anyone would bother to connect the elements to human traits. It sounds arrogant to me.

Can anyone suggest a place I can find the origin of the elemental correspondences? Or, does anyone agree or disagree with me, and if so, why?
You might be interested in my book, The Way of Four, which is entirely about this subject. There is a chapter on the history of the elements, how they first came to be described as they are today, and so on. There's also a chapter on personality traits.

I don't understand why you see the connection of human traits to elemental traits as arrogant. We are all interconnected. As Above, So Below, as the Universe, So the Soul. Everything is a part of everything else; human traits are a part of nature, which is composed of elements, which do permeate all reality, which contains humans, who have traits...

I hope this helps.

[Kendrah]

I'm also a little bothered by the fact that anyone would bother to connect the elements to human traits. It sounds arrogant to me.

Can anyone suggest a place I can find the origin of the elemental correspondences? Or, does anyone agree or disagree with me, and if so, why?

This is all IMHO, but my belief is that we're all made up of the five elements. The elements are the building blocks that make up the universe, why would we (humans) be any different from the rest of the universe? So, learning which elements are dominate in your life is also learning which elements are at their weakest. One of the jobs of a witch is to be balanced. It's just another way of tackling yourself and bring your life into balance.

[MoonDragn]

One association of the elements is related to the tarot. The different signs of the zodiac is connected to different elements traditionally.

Earth : Capricorn, taurus, virgo
Air : Aquarius, Gemini, Libra
Fire : Aries, Leo, Sagittarius
Water : Pisces, Cancer, Scorpio

Each of us has a sign in each of the planets that associate with these elements. By counting the totals, you can get a rough idea how much of each element a person has.

I don't know when or why it was associated but it could be this relationship that attributes each person's trait to an element or vice versa.

[mtpathy]

in order to get a more accurate understanding of the connection
between emotional/mental traits and the 5 elements i would
advice you to study several books on chakra points/meditations/
breathing and visualization techniques etc.
however dont ever take words in any pagan book as being law
always ask yourself "why",and follow your practice by your heart
that way you can never go wrong.

[StarCraftLia]

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[DebLipp]

Are we humans not the most self-filled species that we know of? Truly this elemental thing is hardly the tip of the ice berg, when you think about it.

Odd how we also make deities and animals have human traits, names, looks, etc.
But elemental correspondence is not anthropomorphism; in fact, it is exactly the opposite. It is not putting human characteristics on elements, it is putting elemental characteristics on humans. More accurately, it is seeing the connection. It is not turning nature or Gods into a different sort of human, it is seeing a human as a part of nature and the cosmos.
I don't think you're going to find any "original correspondeces of the elements" - what is origin? Even the four elements; there are millions more elements out there. Anything on Earth and in human hands is going to be "tainted" by us because that is the way we are.
The philosophy of the four elements does, in fact, have a traceable historical origin, which can be researched and learned from. I don't believe a philosophical system "taints" anything, it describes. I don't see where a "taint" comes in.

[BabyBird]

Thank you all for your help. DebbLipp, I'm definetely going to get your book (it's been on my list for ages), as soon as I have some spare cash. Does your book talk about different elemental systems, like Chinese and Buddhists?

Dragonladyofwater and MoonDragn, I'd forgotten about zodiacs, so thanks.

StarCraftLia made my point about arrogance better than I ever could have. I don't understand why wanting to see humanity as part of the universe (which is completely understandable) requires us to give human characteristics to the universe.

However, I think I may have forgotten that it is a philosophical system and not an obligatory belief.

[LostSheep]

But elemental correspondence is not anthropomorphism; in fact, it is exactly the opposite. It is not putting human characteristics on elements, it is putting elemental characteristics on humans. More accurately, it is seeing the connection. It is not turning nature or Gods into a different sort of human, it is seeing a human as a part of nature and the cosmos.

i agree there; but are we talking about putting the characteristics of just one element on everybody, like in basic sun sign astrology? There's a lot more to it than that, isn't there? To say someone is 'a fire sign' may be true as far as it goes, but there may be a lot of other influences that may make something else a lot stronger. So I think the whole element thing is very subtle and complex, everyone has something of each of the elements- or at least most - i don't seem to have much earth - in them.

[SilverNightShade]

when i read that...i base my element off of which i connect to most. I feel more natural with earth (even if my traits say i;m earth).

[DebLipp]

Thank you all for your help. DebbLipp, I'm definetely going to get your book (it's been on my list for ages), as soon as I have some spare cash. Does your book talk about different elemental systems, like Chinese and Buddhists?No, it's an entirely different system, and I haven't worked with it, so I didn't want to talk out of my hat.

[DebLipp]

i agree there; but are we talking about putting the characteristics of just one element on everybody, like in basic sun sign astrology? There's a lot more to it than that, isn't there? To say someone is 'a fire sign' may be true as far as it goes, but there may be a lot of other influences that may make something else a lot stronger. So I think the whole element thing is very subtle and complex, everyone has something of each of the elements- or at least most - i don't seem to have much earth - in them.
People are blended. In fact, nature is blended. Empedocles, largely thought to have "invented" the elements, in fact was the philosopher who first understood that "pure" elements don't exist in nature. Everything contains everything else, even water, in nature, has air, fire, and earth. Only in the heavens, Empedocles thought, were elements pure. (This is why, btw, we purify water & the other elements in Wiccan ritual. Water is made itself, not a blend, by purification.)

When I talk about an "Air" person, I am talking about someone whose Air traits dominate. By knowing that about him, I might know more of what to expect from him. By knowing that about himself, he might seek more balance from Fire, Water, and Earth. But all 4 elements are always within all of us. If they weren't, there'd be no way to become balanced, because we wouldn't have the inner resources on which to draw.

In an astrological chart, we will look at the signs, the degrees of the signs, and gauge the amount each element influences us and in what way. But even in a chart bereft of one element (like mine) the person still has that element within, by virtue of being a part of nature.

[BabyBird]

No, it's an entirely different system, and I haven't worked with it, so I didn't want to talk out of my hat.Okay, I was curious. Thanks for the heads up about Empedocles.

[StarCraftLia]

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