The Hand of God???

[bluecat]

Found this article on the ABC News Site:


The Rev. Arthur Allen and five other people are under arrest and 41 children have been taken from their families and put in foster care amid allegations that Allen directed members of the congregation of his Atlanta church, the House of Prayer, to beat their children.
The children range in age from infants to 17-year-olds, according to the Division of Family and Children Services. The agency has placed the children in foster homes rather than group shelters until the investigation determines whether it is safe to return them to their families.

DFCS officials said children told them that when they misbehaved, they would be taken to the church for discipline, which would be organized by the pastor. Two or three adults would hold them down while two or three others would beat them until the pastor said to stop, according to the children's accounts.

The agency took 19 children into custody over a two-week period, then Tuesday took 22 more and arrested the six people. The six were arraigned today and all pleaded not guilty and refused an attorney.

"We believe in corporal punishment for unruly children," Allen said during a meeting outside the church Friday night, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "If something is reported in here, the parent saying they cannot handle the child, then I suggest they give the child a whipping."

He said that the Bible teaches that it is right to punish children by beating them, so they will learn how wrong it is to misbehave.

Allen and four of the other people who were arrested each have been charged with two counts of cruelty to children, for allegedly beating two boys, ages 7 and 10. The other person was charged with battery and reckless conduct.

Complaints at School

According to Atlanta police, the two boys said they were beaten with sticks, switches and a belt while they were at church. The 10-year-old suffered from open wounds on his stomach and right side, while the younger boy had welts on his stomach and back.

"I did nothing wrong," Allen said as he was being led away by police. The 68-year-old pastor was jailed for 30 days in 1993 for ordering the beating of a church member's daughter.

Authorities began investigating the church several weeks ago after a 10-year-old complained in school about a beating he had received at church. Police and child welfare investigators began talking to teachers, doctors, former church members and children, and two weeks ago they began asking church members to sign pledges not to hit their children until the inquiry was completed.

When parents refused, their children were taken. DFCS officials said the investigation has not been completed, and indicated that more children could be taken into custody.

"If a child died in two weeks, we'd be vilified for not going in to take those children," said Andy Boisseaux of the state Department of Human Resources, which overseas DFCS. "We generally err on the side of the children."

Church members said that the pastor was just following the teachings of the Bible, which they said directs parents to show their love for their children by strictly punishing their misdeeds.

"The last resort is to whip our children," church member Jimmy Barnett said. "Somebody's got to stop them. There's enough killing in these schools. There's enough parent abuse, and it's because the parent did not correct that child when it was young."

Along with Allen, congregation members David Duncan Sr., 43; Emanuel Hardman, 35; James Smith, 43; and Yolanda Wilson, 27, were each charged with two counts of cruelty to children. Ricky Wilson, 31, was charged with battery and reckless conduct.


ABCNEWS's Steve Osunsami contributed to this report.

[Ozymandias]

Words fail me.

[belladonna23]

I, too, spent some time in foster care as a child because I went to a church that taught that the bible (supposedly) says that parents show their children love by beating them. "Spare the rod, spoil the child...", I don't think that is quite what that means, do you?
What the hell is wrong with people? Where do they think kids are learning such violent behavior from in the first place? Please! This kind of crap still makes me sick.

[bluecat]

The passage reads:


Proverbs 13:24 Proverbs 13 Proverbs 13:23-25 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. (King James Version)


From this they interpret beating children.

[sherry]

I am very Thankful for the Parents I had growing up!!
My Mom and Dad were not the kind to go around hitting people.
At times I think I'd have rather gotten the smack and sent back outside with the other kids to play but their mind game was to instill a inner feeling.
You see we were sent to our room to think about what we did, how it made the other people feel, how we would like to be treated ect.ect. ect.
The speach part was the worse!! then the silence in your room I hated that part the most!!


And I might add this was in the olden days for all you young people when we didn't have a phone, tv, vcr, video games, and all those extras in our rooms.

I tease my nieces now, I'd like to be sent to their room and told I could stay there!!

[Silver Venus]

Thanks for the email Bluecat and for posting this ~ Its an absolute audacity what these people try and get away with and how they interpret the bible for there own sick selfish ends.
Just makes me so mad...

[LaDaya]

I'm all for them finding a way to punish a child for misconduct but what they are doing goes way beyond simple spanking or time out. This is definitely abuse and I hope that the charges stick and they aren't able to get off because of the religious angle.... Stuff like this is what makes the xtian religion so nauseating... :-(

[Dextra]

If you can't tell from the posts I left in the abortion thread, the one thing that gets under my skin more than anything, it's when a child is hurt.

A smack on the hand to keep a little one from touching a hot stove or a swat on the behind for older kids to get your point across is one thing. And even that should be used after non-physical disciplinary action is taken. Do people not realize that the children they abuse today are the ones that are going to be the ones that are going to be deciding what nursing home these people will be in when thier faculties fail them?

What the church member Jimmy Barnett said about "parent abuse" and "killing in the schools" pissed me off to no end. Parent abuse? Please. Killing in the schools? Well, I could go on about that one for days, but to put it simply: If parents would be more invoved in their children's lives, that would drastically reduce juvenile crime. Too many parents let the schools and everyone else raise their kids for them.

I can't stand to see a child hurt. And the open wounds and welts?! These people need to be beaten like they beat their children, seeing as how that is how they punish for a wrongdoing.

I have a million and one things to say about this, but I'm just going to leave it at that.

[Carmelo]

I grew up in a family where corporal punishment often extended in the terrorism these church members participated in. At those times, if we did wrong we were met, often, with more than a belt. On those occasions, they simply found other ways to abuse us without exerting physical force. Sometimes we would be sent kneeling in a corner in what we called the prayer position(I later found it to be the worship position) with our arms reaching for the sky. I was the only one subjected to kneeling on diamond-cut sandpaper- the one with little rocks instead of sand. Other times, we were made to strip our pants down to our underwear, or the underwear sometimes came off, too, and we would be whipped and beaten with a belt. When they figured out the belt was no longer working, they used broomsticks, cooking spoons, paint stirs, etc. Keep in mind that this was my mother and her family, my father was miles away because of divorcing.

There is a bright side to all of this, of sorts. A few years ago, my ex and I fled the household of my family and went to make it on our own(once again). In the time that we were finally beginning to get back on our feet, social services paid us a visit. They were there to check on the condition of our children because someone had reported neglect and abuse(claiming that I would hit my daughter with the buckle end of a belt, aiming for her head). This enraged me that I would be accused of something so horrid, which was furthered by the fact that they were bound by confidentiality to not tell me who made the report. I was asked if I disciplined my children, I told them yes. Before they asked how, I showed them my hand and told them that it was all I needed. If my children needed correcting, I would spank them with my open hand(but not hard enough to jar their guts or anything like that) and that it did not go beyond three times. Should it come to me feeling the want to go beyond three times, they received time out and I went into a separate room and sat quietly. It was obvious to me that I was angry and that it would do no good to continue spanking. When time out was over, I would explain to them why they were spanked and asked them to try, I didn't say do, TRY not to do it again. This left the social worker speechless. I don't know if it were because I told her the truth about my discipline or the way I did it, but she was speechless nonetheless.

What did I learn between those two stories? I learned that I was terrorized for a part of my childhood and that I could change that. It was a life lesson I had opened my eyes to and realized that people, especially family or church, do not dictate how I will later discipline my children if only I would learn that since I did not like, they would not. While I understand what is meant by 'spare the rod', I also know that there is a difference between a spanking and terroristic abuse. IMHO.

[Kaylara]

Ok... So I may be a little over-protective of my brothers. If my parents even thought about doing this to my brothers, they would rue the day. When I was younger, lived with my mother and step-father (#1). I would take the blame for things that my sister and brother would do, so that they wouldn't have to deal with my parents. My step-father (#1) used to beat the crap out of me, and my mother would just sit back and watch, and let him do it.
Going through that made me grow up to be a bit of a nut when it comes to hitting kids. There is a difference between abuse and punishment (like spanking) and children know the difference.
I told my newest step-father that if he ever layed a hand on my brothers, that he wouldn't know what hit him. And that is how I believe. If you beat your kids, you are a piece of shit. (and I mean beating kids, not spanking them.) These people deserve to sit in jail...

Kaylara

[Kaylara]

Minister has prior conviction for beating
He's released from jail in latest case

By Alan Judd and Jill Young Miller
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writers

The Rev. Arthur Allen Jr., was sent to jail in 1993 after ordering members of his church to beat a 16-year-old girl with belts and then taunting the bleeding girl when she cried.

Now, the pastor of the House of Prayer church in northwest Atlanta is at the center of a massive abuse investigation that has led to the removal of 41 children from their parents' homes.

"He stood over me and said, 'I had you whining like a baby,' " the girl, Ivory Johnson, testified during a 1993 trial in DeKalb County State Court.

Allen admitted in court that he ordered the August 1992 beating - which he said may have lasted from 20 to 30 minutes. The beating continued, he testified, until the girl was "beaten into submission." The teenager had defied his authority, Allen said, and she "had to be beaten, or she would take over the church."

Allen, 68, said he and his church will be vindicated in the new case.

"I hope we are charged and I look forward to a trial by jury," he said Wednesday morning in Atlanta Municipal Court.

Allen was released from jail Wednesday, one day after he and five members of his church were arrested by Atlanta police on charges that they encouraged or participated in the beatings of two children last month. The others, and a seventh church member, Sharon Duncan, who turned herself in to authorities Wednesday, were expected to remain in jail overnight. Two of the six church members charged in the new case were convicted in 1993 along with Allen.

Earlier in the day, an Atlanta Municipal Court judge ordered Allen and five of the others to stand trial on the charges, which were filed after state social workers removed 41 children from the homes of church members.

The 41 children - who range in age from 5 months to 17 years - remain in state custody. State officials would not say where the children are being held, but a spokeswoman for the Department of Human Resources said they are together and "are safe."

In a separate hearing Wednesday afternoon, a Juvenile Court judge delayed hearing testimony on whether the first 19 children taken from church members should remain in state custody. Six cases were dismissed because of a technical error, but those children remain in custody.

A hearing to determine whether those six cases should go forward was scheduled for Friday. The remaining cases were delayed until later this month at the request of the parents, who said they were not prepared to defend themselves.

The whippings were administered at the urging and direction of Allen, police Investigator C. Dean testified during the parents' preliminary hearing on the criminal charges. One parent, James Smith, told Judge Elaine Carlisle that the beatings were so common he had lost count of how many he had seen.

Children being punished were suspended in the air by their hands and arms and beaten with switches, sticks or belts, Dean said. Photographs shown to the parents in court showed welts that Dean said were between 1 and 3 inches long, including one she described as the shape of a belt buckle.

While acknowledging their punishment had left marks on the children, the parents denied that they had caused any injuries or that they had done anything wrong.

"I did nothing more than chastise my child in a reasonable fashion," said parent David Duncan Sr.

Juanita Blount-Clark, director of the state Division of Family and Children Services, said Wednesday no additional children have been targeted for pickup. But the investigation is continuing, she said.

"There's more to it than just that one incident that triggered it and got us involved," she said.

Blount-Clark said Fulton County DFCS officials moved quickly because of the potential for abuse to other children. "If we are erring," she said, "it is on the side of caution based on what we've seen."

Atlanta police said injuries have been found on only two of the 41 children. But D'Annacq Libercq, chief of the DFCS Special Investigative Unit, said the other 39 children were taken because several of the families refused to cooperate with investigators. Another family turned the children over to DFCS without protest, according to Department of Human Resources spokeswoman Renee Huie.

In interviews since news broke about the investigation, Allen has acknowledged that he encourages "whippings" for "unruly" children. But he has denied that the beatings constitute abuse.

He said that his 1993 conviction came after a girl was caught having sex in an upstairs room during Bible study. He said he advised the girl's mother to "give her a whipping." The next day, he said, the girl reported him to police and he faced charges.

He said he was not surprised that he went to jail.

"The Bible says if you live godly," he said, "you're going to suffer persecution."

But court records and the prosecutor from his 1993 trial tell a different story.

On the night of the beating, the church was talking about marriage, said Johnson, who had married a member of the church when she was 14. Allen "makes you get married," she testified. A girl in the church raised her hand and told the preacher that Johnson was trying to "poison their minds against marriage." Johnson said she raised her hand and said the girl was lying.

"Brother Allen got mad," Johnson said.

He "told some people in the church to take me in the back and 'whoop her ass.' " Two church members held her down, she said, while two more beat her with belts. "Then the pastor called my mother and brother to the back of the room to beat me, too."

"I dropped to the floor," Johnson testified. Two women helped her up and took her to a bedroom in the house where the church was holding a service. "They cleaned me up and cleaned up the blood."

Debra M. Sullivan, who prosecuted the case, said Wednesday that evidence showed Johnson received "serious" injuries, including cuts and welts on her legs.

"Their theory was 'she was this wild child and we're making her better,' " Sullivan said. "He [Allen] had a big thing about resisting authority."

Allen did not deny the allegations against him, Sullivan said.

"His attitude was defiance - that people in the community were trying to tell them what to do," she said. "It was, 'I know what I'm doing, you all don't know anything.' "

Allen was convicted of battery and of being a party to the crime of battery. He was sentenced to 30 days in the DeKalb County Jail, but served only 20 days. The jury also convicted six other church members, including Johnson's mother and brother. The others include Duncan and Emanuel Hardeman, who face charges along with Allen in the new case.

At the 1993 trial, Johnson said she was no longer married, and that her ex-husband had married another 14-year-old girl.

Johnson had been a member of the House of Prayer since she was a small child. She didn't leave the church before the whipping because, according to court documents, Allen had told her that "bad things would happen to her in the real world outside the church."


Found at:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/frame/direct.asp?SITE=www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/newsatlanta/abuse0322.html

Kaylara

[Mariposa De La Luna]

I think this article proves the ignorance of some people and how some people just want to be told what to do. You just want to yell at them and say WAKE UP! TO REALITY AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!
I don't understand how people can buy into what these egotistic maniacs say in the name of God and be utterly convinced its right. Don't they have brains? Don't they have eyes and see what harm these people did to their children? If Their kid came home from school or daycare like that they would have called the police but at church I guess its OK for them. This just astounds me at how stupid and ignorant people want to be.

[Wyrdsister]

Perhaps I'll comment when the knot works itself out of my stomach.

[Niamh]

I want to believe that this stuff doesn't happen! But I know better, and I know it happens all too often and that things like this are all too real. I'm extremely lucky; I have wonderful parents.
On a different note;
I'll never forget being in Macy's in NYC last year during the holidays. A young boy, perhaps 4, was obvioulsy exhausted (it was close to 8 pm) and started whining to his mom. She lifted him off the floor by his wrist and, loud enough for all of Manhattan to hear, threatened to throw him through a plate glass window. There was a lot of profanity thrown in as well.
I was almost sick to my stomach watching this. In complete disbelief. And I've been wondering, since then, how that little boy will grow up. Or if he even will.
"You need a license to shoot a deer. But any a**hole can be a father" -Keanu Reeves, "Parenthood"

[bluecat]

Thank You for the update, Kaylara ... I think ... ... SHEESH!

You know, I have np problem with Christianity ... but some of these Christians .... well ... need I say more?

[Earth Walker]

:mad: I took a good deal of violence from males,
and some females, of various fundamentalist
religions, because I was "different". I was born
female with a malformed vagina, and was considered
a "freak", and they assumed that it was their right
to beat me. All this in the name of the Prince Of Love?
What of All of their other victims.....women, men,
pagans, lesbians, gays, transsexuals, all non-white
people..............???
This is why I cannot accept any oppressive patriarchal
fundamentalist religion, and I will dedicate my life to
working to help dismantle that system. :cool: :cool:



Let's make freedom a reality, not an illusion. :sunny:

[Skye_McCarthy]

I saw the pastor from that church on CNN (i think) last night. He was such a...eww don't get me started. Anyway the reporter kept asking him about how the church could advocate hurting little kids...and he kept going off topic about how columbine wouldn't have happened if the kids had been wipped when they did things wrong. The reporter also quoted something from the bible (i don't remember the exact quote) it was something along the lines of those who love their children won't whip them (definitely more poetic than that) but anyway...and he completely ignored her when she said that. Also I guess he was arrested for something like this again back in '93..and she kept asking him about that and he's like "i'm not here to talk about '93 I'm here to talk about now" ...he was really icky.

-Skye

[gunner]

............ now that i've cooled off enough to mind my language, i grew up in a home where "the belt" was too frequently used. when i got married i made sure that, like another poster, i limited spankings to three swats with a bare hand and "go to your room and think about it". one punishment i have never and will never use is taking away food. i've too green memories of what hunger feels like. now-a-days, with my grand daughter, when her mom can't cope and turns to granpa for backup one fast swat on the bottom is enough to make the point. as for that abomination of a "preacher" i'd enjoy taking him downrange, out behind the butts, to discuss how to beat helpless girls and instruct him a bit in the wrath of god and lance corporals. i won't even discuss "marrying 14 year olds" just now, i'm in a short fused mood and the fuse is burning.
"gunner"

[Tigerwallah]

This man gets off on hurting others. He is too weak to go after someone who can defend themself against him. Hey, he doesn't even do it himself. Others jump at his words to do his bidding.

Unfortunately, there are too many people who hide their depravities under the cloak of "Christianity." I went to Catholic schools, and saw a lot of this first hand. Many nuns and priests gave themselves to the church, not because they had a "calling," but because they needed to have a cover for their dark sides. I saw nuns make sexual advances towards young girls, and priests do more than make advances.

My sister's father in law is a vile, disgusting man who beat his children (all 10 of them), beat his wife and kept her pregnant while he cheated throughout his marraige, stole from his own children, and when his wife died, tried to put the kids who weren't 18 yet, up for adoption so that he could become a priest. He is a decon in the church now.

Christianity is like Communism - in theory it is a noble idea. In practice it is opressive and corrupt.

[gunner]

or the administrator of a protestant children's shelter that sees the nubile female residents as his private harem, etc. ad nauseum

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by SAHM
I think this article proves the ignorance of some people and how some people just want to be told what to do. You just want to yell at them and say WAKE UP! TO REALITY AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!

In life, there are Leaders and there are Followers. In Paganism in general, most of us are Leaders ~ we're all of the Goddess, recognize the Goddess within, and recognize the Priest/ess without. That said, however, I can say this. I do know first-hand that there are Pagan Followers, as well. This is one of the things that drives me absolutely nuts. I'm working to help build a local Pagan Community Center; unfortunately, it's filled with such people, which leads to constant head-ache for the organizers (myself and three others). We'll be discussing class options (which I've got a meeting to do in two hours, in fact), and one of the participants will say, "But who do we know who can lead a discussion on that topic?" "Who do we know who can teach such a thing?" "Who do we know who's that advanced?". *gack!*

I know this isn't near the same thing and probably way out of context, but I just wanted to point out that "followers" aren't limited to Christianity.

I want to add, too, this. These are the same people who, whenever I suggest holding a class outside, or making use of the stone circle where we meet, all fly into a panic. Goddess-forbid we use our mailing list for an actual magical discussion; people start complaining that they're receiving too much email and can we keep the list for announcements only? :-(