The Do You Know Hekate?- Test:

[Incendia]

Hi all! I stumbled across this link at ecauldron. As you can probably guess by the title of this thread, it's a test on Hekate. Enjoy.

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=13647582239214740126

I got an 88%- Need to do some more research on who said what! :D

[Scarlettvixen]

it would be nice if they let u see yr results

most of it i guessed at i have to say

[Incendia]

it would be nice if they let u see yr results

most of it i guessed at i have to say

Agreed! I still enjoyed taking it though...

[SilverClaw]

Ah did not do very good on that one.

[Agaliha]

Ah did not do very good on that one.

Me either, lol.
Though it wasn't the info about her that was tripping me up-- it was the questions about the writers and sculptures...I don't really have the ability to retain specifics about the Greek poets and writers, ditto to the meanings of long Greek words. :twitch:

[Incendia]

Me either, lol.
Though it wasn't the info about her that was tripping me up-- it was the questions about the writers and sculptures...I don't really have the ability to retain specifics about the Greek poets and writers, ditto to the meanings of long Greek words. :twitch:

Yep...that was my problem too!

[SilverClaw]

it was the questions about the writers and sculptures. Hahah I recognised the names I just could not remember who did what :D

[Theres]

The Do you know Hekate? Test, continued

You've answered 17 of 17, by the way

hmmmm... go figure.

and i actually disagreed with one or two of their answers.

[SilverClaw]

Theres that is just telling you that you did not miss any questions that is not your results :D

[Theres]

oh.
well, the other thing said "you were more than 99% correct", or something like that.

but i disagreed with the 'midwifery' question. also, the 'Artemis/Apollon' question was vexed, as either answer would be correct (within in that context).

[EternalMaiden]

hmmmm... go figure.

and i actually disagreed with one or two of their answers.

No silly, you answered 17 questions of the 17 in the test. That wasn't your grade, hon!

<---Thought so too.

For my age group, I did extremely well... 99% higher.
But that just helps me understand this ladies aggrivation, because I only got 35% correct.

Study time?

[SilverClaw]

Hahahah Well good for you Theres I got way less then 99 percent :D

[Theres]

it was a pretty challenging test.

but one other thing i'm not too sure about... i think aoroi is more properly translated as untimely dead rather than "angry dead". this usually applied to young women who passed 'before their time', and often referred to those who had been sacrificed (ie; Iphegenia), although it certainly included children who died during birth, etc.

[SilverClaw]

it was a pretty challenging test.

but one other thing i'm not too sure about... i think aoroi is more properly translated as untimely dead rather than "angry dead". this usually applied to young women who passed 'before their time', and often referred to those who had been sacrificed (ie; Iphegenia), although it certainly included children who died during birth, etc

:foh:Ok Theres I will take your word for it that went right over my head_tomatoe_

[eihdos]

it was a pretty challenging test.

but one other thing i'm not too sure about... i think aoroi is more properly translated as untimely dead rather than "angry dead".


You're right. Sorry about that. While aoroi is often translated as "angry dead" it really means "untimely dead", which I stupidly forgot.

As for the question about Hekate being Leto's daughter, you can answer Artemis *or* Apollon for a correct answer.


.Eihdos - test maker

[Theres]

no worries m'dear, it was fun (and one of the best online tests i've taken)... thank you. ;)

[Mad Jasmine]

I got 41%, not bad. Before I got the result it wanted me to fill in personal info asking if I'm m/f, date of birth, do I have a website and optional screen name (survey?). It would be nice if they revealed the actual answers.

[eihdos]

It would be nice if they revealed the actual answers.


I wish OK Cupid would show you the correct answers when you're finished taking the test, but they don't. I posted them here instead.

http://www.ecauldron.net/index.php?webtag=CAULDRON&msg=7598.13


.Eihdos

[Mithrea]

I wish OK Cupid would show you the correct answers when you're finished taking the test, but they don't. I posted them here instead.

http://www.ecauldron.net/index.php?webtag=CAULDRON&msg=7598.13


.Eihdos

Thank you! :)

[Mad Jasmine]

Thanks for sending this.

[raven grimassi]

I wish OK Cupid would show you the correct answers when you're finished taking the test, but they don't. I posted them here instead.

http://www.ecauldron.net/index.php?webtag=CAULDRON&msg=7598.13


.Eihdos


Just an FYI - the answer to number 11 is incorrect as Homer does mention Hekate in his Hymn to Demeter.

Regarding number 4 (While the Greeks didn't believe in a triple goddess as such, it's fair to say that they saw Hekate as a Maiden) this is problematic. While there are several references to Hekate as a maiden in Greek literature, the abundant references indicate that she was best known as a guardian of entrances where she appeared in a triformis nature. One of the classic references to her reads: "..and goddess of the triple ways, who hold untiring fire in triple baskets, and you who oft frequent the triple way and rule the triple decades with three forms.." (Papyri Graecae Magicae 4: 2523-42)

[Theres]

Regarding number 4 (While the Greeks didn't believe in a triple goddess as such, it's fair to say that they saw Hekate as a Maiden) this is problematic. While there are several references to Hekate as a maiden in Greek literature, the abundant references indicate that she was best known as a guardian of entrances where she appeared in a triformis nature.
correct.
however i believe the question was refering to the MMC triplicity, which couldn't have been further from the Greek view.
this could have been clearer.

however, Her Propylaic function was not always depicted in triple form. the Propylaia at the Parthenon featured the famous statue by Alkamenes which is indeed triformis, but this is generally considered to be the first such depiction (at least i have not found an earlier one). it is certainly the most well known.
but a similar temple at Aigina had a statue of Hekate (carved in wood) which is attributed to the sculptor Myron and which featured Hekate with a single face and body.


by the way eihdos, i checked out you Hekate.nu site, and i have to tell you it is one of the better sites on the subject that i have found. kudos!

[eihdos]

Just an FYI - the answer to number 11 is incorrect as Homer does mention Hekate in his Hymn to Demeter.


Just an FYI - Homer didn't write the Homeric Hymn to Demeter. It was mistakenly attributed to him by the ancients.



Regarding number 4 (While the Greeks didn't believe in a triple goddess as such, it's fair to say that they saw Hekate as a Maiden) this is problematic.


While there were certainly many depictions of Hekate's triple form, there's nothing to indicate that they saw the goddess herself as being triple. Also, the PGM were written rather late, probably from the second to the fifth century C.E.


.Eihdos

[raven grimassi]

i believe the question was refering to the MMC triplicity, which couldn't have been further from the Greek view.

Right, there is no evidence for the specific title of Mother, Maiden, Crone. However, the concept of the Three Fates depicted in the three stages of life (youth, maturity, and old age) seems to indicate something akin to the MMC in ancient thought.

Hekate as a crone figure appears to come late in history, and it is interesting to note Lucan's reference to a witch saying:

Persephone, who is the third and lowest aspect of our goddess Hekate..." (LUC. B.C. 6: 700-01, as quoted in The Rotting Goddess by Rabinowitz)


however, Her Propylaic function was not always depicted in triple form. the Propylaia at the Parthenon featured the famous statue by Alkamenes which is indeed triformis, but this is generally considered to be the first such depiction (at least i have not found an earlier one). it is certainly the most well known.

It is interesting to note that triple masks were hung on the hekatiaion pole, which was erected at the crossroads. Several ancient writers address the triple masks of Hekate. I know Plutarch attests to the masks, and Ovid and Varro also mention them being set on the pole at the crossroads in Greek towns. I wonder if this practice predates any formal statue of Hekate. If so, the triformis nature here may have been the prototype for the statue you mention. What are your thoughts on this?

[eihdos]

by the way eihdos, i checked out you Hekate.nu site, and i have to tell you it is one of the better sites on the subject that i have found. kudos!


Thank you! I've had the pleasure of working together with some very knowledgeable people on the FAQ. :)

Did you know that Hekate grants kudos, by the way? I learned that just the other day. In the Theogony, where she gives glory to men in battle, the Greek word used is kudos.

Oh, and if you're not a member of Naos Hekate already (see my signature), please consider joining us.


.Eihdos

[raven grimassi]

Just an FYI - Homer didn't write the Homeric Hymn to Demeter. It was mistakenly attributed to him by the ancients.

While there has been some debate over whether Homer was the author of the Hymn, the contemporary scholarly consensus does not appear to dispute it. You can find the Hymn attributed to Homer on the academic website sponsored by the Library of Berkeley here in California:

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Hesiod/hymns.html


While there were certainly many depictions of Hekate's triple form, there's nothing to indicate that they saw the goddess herself as being triple.

I respectfully disagree. Hekate first appears in Western literature (Hesiod's Theogony) as a goddess who has power over the Three Known Realms, which is suggestive of a triformis nature. Standing alone this passage may not be definitive, but over the following centuries the reference to a triple association remains consistent.

There are clear references in ancient writings to Hekate being viewed as a triple goddess. Charikleides refers to her as "Lady Hekate of the three-ways, three-formed, three faced". If I recall correctly, his time period was 4th century bce.

The majority of the references to Hekate as triformis come from the period when chthonic natures are prominent, and more so when Artemis/Diana are seen as aspects of Hekate. Some examples are:

Varro (L.L. 7:16) "The Trivian Titaness is Diana, called Trivia from the fact that her image is set up quite generally in Greek towns where three roads meet"

Virgil (Aen. 4:511) - "...and triple Hekate, the three faces of the maiden Diana"

Lucan's reference (B.C.6: 700-01) to Hekate as a goddess with three aspects is also noteworthy: "Persephone, who is the third and lowest aspect of our goddess Hekate"

I think in all of this we may be seeing a reflection of the rootedness of Hekate as a single goddess who is triformis in nature. Scholar Robert Von Rudloff (Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion) briefly addresses the possible long standing prehistorical traditions that may have resulted in the iconography of the literary periods.

This is interesting when we view Hekate's pole that is set the the crossroads as the divine tree representing her. This makes greater sense related to the three maskes that were hung on the pole, wherein she was called Trivia, goddess of the three ways. When we consider Hesiod's reference to Hekate as ruler of the Three Realms, interesting ideas can arise.






Scholar Robert Von Rudloff (Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion) discusses the references to

[eihdos]

While there has been some debate over whether Homer was the author of the Hymn, the contemporary scholarly consensus does not appear to dispute it.



Sources please.



You can find the Hymn attributed to Homer on the academic website sponsored by the Library of Berkeley here in California:

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Hesiod/hymns.html


You're joking, right? The fact that they are still known as Homeric hymns does not mean that they were written by Homer. Last time I checked scholars couldn't even agree if there ever *was* a Homer.




I respectfully disagree. Hekate first appears in Western literature (Hesiod's Theogony) as a goddess who has power over the Three Known Realms, which is suggestive of a triformis nature.


How do you come to that conclusion?



There are clear references in ancient writings to Hekate being viewed as a triple goddess. Charikleides refers to her as "Lady Hekate of the three-ways, three-formed, three faced". If I recall correctly, his time period was 4th century bce.


I wasn't familiar with that quote. Where can I find it?



The majority of the references to Hekate as triformis come from the period when chthonic natures are prominent, and more so when Artemis/Diana are seen as aspects of Hekate.


Er... You can hardly use Roman sources to prove what the ancient Greeks believed about Hekate. And I really wouldn't consider von Rudloff a good source.


.Eihdos

[raven grimassi]

Sources please.

Other than the fact that University sites include the Hymn of Demeter among the works of Homer (and so why would they?), just about every scholarly work I've read refers to Homer as the author of the Demeter hymn. Scholars Anne Baring and Jules Cashford refer frequently to the Homer as the author Hymn of Demeter in their book The Myth of the Goddess. Other scholars that come to mind who refer to the "Homeric" hymn of Demeter are Sarah Iles Johnson, Georg Luck, Rudolph Von Rudloff, and Richard Gordon to name a few.

What are your sources that Homer is not the author?


You're joking, right? The fact that they are still known as Homeric hymns does not mean that they were written by Homer.

No, not joking at all, as I imagine a University website contains material pertinent to its literary/historical position. But in any case your argument, of course, has the opposite meaning as well, as debate does not mean that the hymn was not written by Homer.


How do you come to that conclusion?

Simply by reading the text and taking into consideration the long standing association of Hekate with triple imagery. Hesiod's tale, verse 410 states that Hekate held power over the starry sky, the earth, and the sea (the three known realms). Verse 420 -425 tell us that she was granted all that was her attributes in the age of Titans and that nothing was taken away. Verse 25 reads: "The distribution made in the beginning is still the same" (Hesiod, translation by Apostolos Athanassakis - John Hopkins University Press, 1983).


I wasn't familiar with that quote. Where can I find it?

I found it referenced in Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion by Von Rudloff, on page 119.


Er... You can hardly use Roman sources to prove what the ancient Greeks believed about Hekate.

I respectfully disagree, as it is an ongoing tradition regarding how Hekate is revealed/reveals herself. In other words, this is a rooted tradition that supplies the branches with renewed life.


And I really wouldn't consider von Rudloff a good source.

Well, then again we are in disagreement.

[eihdos]

What are your sources that Homer is not the author?


How many do you need? Look up any scholarly book about the Homeric hymns and you will find that same piece of information. You can start with The Cambridge History of Classical Literature: Volume 1.

All hexameter hymns not associated with other poems were attributed to Homer by the ancient Greeks. We now know that Homer didn't write them, but they are still called Homeric hymns.


.Eihdos

[Theres]

wow, we certainly strayed from the topic didn't we?

however, as long as we're here i have to add that i don't think the Homeric Hymns were written by 'Homer' either (whoever he may have been). but then i'm also not convinced that the author of The Illiad is the same person as the author of The Odyssey.
however, since they are generally attributed to a common author, and since there is no significant evidence to the contrary, then i think arguing the point is rather, well... pointless.

as for my thoughts on Her triplicity...
Hesiod makes his point pretty well that She was ruler of Earth, Sea and Sky.by definition this makes Her a triple goddess of some sort. this seems mildly reflected in the hecterion pillars. the threeway crossroads were a physical area and not only a limnal point. i think that any goddess associated with the crossroads would be expected to see in all directions at once... as well as past, present and future... life, death and rebirth, etc.
certainly the fact that these pillars were known to be associated with other gods as well (Hermes, for one), but that they were ONLY known in a triple sense when associated with Hekate is compelling.
however i think the point eihdos was trying to make is that She was not seen as a 'triple-goddess' in the modern sense, and this of course i agree with. and the way that term is bandied about these days i think it's an important point to make (Evans, Drussaud and Graves notwithstanding).

as far as von Rudloff is concerned, all i can say is that i enjoyed his book but i'm not sure i'd put him in the same category as Prof Johnston, et al. 'Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion' was an extension of his college thesis, and it reads as such. and while he does present some interesting facts (the Artemis connection in particular), he fails to draw many conclusions from them.
i would hope that if i were ever to publish a book about Hekate i would be a bit less timid and go a step or two further than Mr. von Rudloff.


okay, what did i miss?

[Theres]

Did you know that Hekate grants kudos, by the way? I learned that just the other day. In the Theogony, where she gives glory to men in battle, the Greek word used is kudos.
yes, i did know that. truth be told i was throwing it out there as 'bait'... lol!


Oh, and if you're not a member of Naos Hekate already (see my signature), please consider joining us.
i did join, but got frustrated with the Yahoo Groups hoops... too much bother trying to log in. of course it probably didn't help that i signed up using that ridiculously long name you posted elsewhere (re; curse tablets), which i could never remember how to spell. :twitch:

perhaps i will try again using something more... usable!

[raven grimassi]

How many do you need?

Well, more than just one would have been helpful.


We now know that Homer didn't write them, but they are still called Homeric hymns.

Actually we do not know that as a fact, which is why there is a debate on the matter among scholars.


however, as long as we're here i have to add that i don't think the Homeric Hymns were written by 'Homer' either (whoever he may have been). but then i'm also not convinced that the author of The Illiad is the same person as the author of The Odyssey. however, since they are generally attributed to a common author, and since there is no significant evidence to the contrary, then i think arguing the point is rather, well... pointless.

I agree that it is pointless to continue here on this particular subject.


certainly the fact that these pillars were known to be associated with other gods as well (Hermes, for one), but that they were ONLY known in a triple sense when associated with Hekate is compelling.

I think so as well.


however i think the point eihdos was trying to make is that She was not seen as a 'triple-goddess' in the modern sense, and this of course i agree with. and the way that term is bandied about these days i think it's an important point to make

No argument here in that regard. In general the triformis concept in antiquity seems to be that of one entity with three aspects. This is reflected not only in Hekate, but also in the Roman and Celtic concepts of the such figures as the Iona/Matres. I just urge caution so that we do not throw the baby out with the bath water.


as far as von Rudloff is concerned, all i can say is that i enjoyed his book but i'm not sure i'd put him in the same category as Prof Johnston

Both came recommended to me by a panel of scholars, but I agree that Sarah Johnston is much more impressive. I am currently re-reading her book Restless Dead: Encounters between the Living and the Dead in Ancient Greece. It is a fascinating work. I am finding it useful in conjunction with Magic, Witchcraft, and Ghosts in the Greek and Roman Worlds, by Daniel Ogden.

[Incendia]

You're right. Sorry about that. While aoroi is often translated as "angry dead" it really means "untimely dead", which I stupidly forgot.

As for the question about Hekate being Leto's daughter, you can answer Artemis *or* Apollon for a correct answer.


.Eihdos - test maker

Thank you for creating this exellent test. I hope that you didn't mind me posting the link in this forum. :)

[eihdos]

wow, we certainly strayed from the topic didn't we?


Yeah. Sorry about that. I think I failed to point out exactly why it makes a difference whether Homer wrote those hymns or not. If he had written the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, that would make it the oldest known literary reference to Hekate, instead of the Theogony. Also, it would raise the question why Hekate was never mentioned in the Iliad or the Odyssey.

As for the triplicity thing, I don't deny that she was associated with the number three. I just think the ancient Greeks could tell the difference between an artistic representation and the Goddess herself, and so I don't believe that they saw her as a trinity, or as a deity walking about with three bodies on three pairs of feet.

I have much the same problems with von Rudloff that you do. Reading the book, I get the feeling that he's not really going anywhere with the material. I do think it's a decent book to start with when wanting to learn about Hekate, because it gives you some kind of overview, but only if you move on to better sources later.

Do you have plans for a book? :D


.Eihdos

[eihdos]

Thank you for creating this exellent test. I hope that you didn't mind me posting the link in this forum. :)


Not at all. I appreciate it. :)


.Eihdos

[Salanthos]

47% - higher than 99% of my peers... which is really funny, since all I know about Hekate was from chance comments made on MW - I know nothing, I guessed. lucky guesses, most of them...

[Brenda]

You scored 58% correct!
:lol: I didn't fail!

[Evendusk]

52% correct

[eihdos]

Both came recommended to me by a panel of scholars, but I agree that Sarah Johnston is much more impressive.


May I ask which scholars recommended von Rudloff's book?


.Eihdos

[Theres]

Do you have plans for a book? :D

.Eihdos
:shhhh: :whistle:

;)


edited to add;
i should say that i have no major problem with von Rudloff's book. as you say it is an excellent starting point, and we do get to meet the real Hekate. but i would hardly call it definitive or scholarly, at least not to the level of authors like Nilsson, Johnston, etc.

[raven grimassi]

May I ask which scholars recommended von Rudloff's book?.Eihdos

He was recommended by two panels, one at Pacifica Graduate Institute and another at PantheaCon in the Bay area (San Francisco area). In addition to Johnston and Von Rudloff, other scholars including E.R. Dodds, and Walter Burkett were also on the list.

As an author I have been a frequent guest speaker on myth and legend and am currently working with a group of scholars in the area of mythological research as it relates to modern Pagan themes. So I feel fairly up to date.

[eihdos]

i should say that i have no major problem with von Rudloff's book. as you say it is an excellent starting point, and we do get to meet the real Hekate. but i would hardly call it definitive or scholarly, at least not to the level of authors like Nilsson, Johnston, etc.


Nah. And the way he treats epithets and the associated functions really bothers me. He picks five of them and makes it seem almost like there was a logical and chronological progression from one to the other.

Regarding Nilsson - I was poking about in a used bookstore a while back, and found a first edition about his book about the afterlife. (Don't have the English title - not sure it was ever translated.) The book was in perfect condition, and when I opened it I discovered that the author himself had signed it. :D


.Sara

[eihdos]

He was recommended by two panels, one at Pacifica Graduate Institute and another at PantheaCon in the Bay area (San Francisco area).


Would a name or two be too much to ask for?

I noticed that the PGI has published "Hestia, Hekate, and Hermes: An archetypal trinity of constancy, complexity, and change". You wouldn't happen to know anything about it?

http://www.online.pacifica.edu/pgl/stories/storyReader$289


.Eihdos

[raven grimassi]

Would a name or two be too much to ask for?


A name or two regarding what exactly? People I know or people whose panel discussions I have attended? Regarding the latter, it would be quite a task to recall every member of every panel I have ever heard give addresses over the past couple of decades, and in particular which ones handed out what source materials. But that would be silly and a bit too anal.


I noticed that the PGI has published "Hestia, Hekate, and Hermes: An archetypal trinity of constancy, complexity, and change". You wouldn't happen to know anything about it?

No, I am not familiar with it. I can ask a colleague of mine who is a graduate of Pacifica, and she might know. She is extremely well read and up to date on the latest publications and such. I will let you know what I find out.

[Sage WindMoon]

47% - higher than 99% of my peers... which is really funny, since all I know about Hekate was from chance comments made on MW - I know nothing, I guessed. lucky guesses, most of them...

Heh, this is EXACTLY what I was going to say. Same score, same degree of knowledge regarding Hekate.

[eihdos]

A name or two regarding what exactly? People I know or people whose panel discussions I have attended? Regarding the latter, it would be quite a task to recall every member of every panel I have ever heard give addresses over the past couple of decades, and in particular which ones handed out what source materials. But that would be silly and a bit too anal.


I thought you said that von Rudloff's book had been recommended by two specific panels, one at Pacifica Graduate Institute and another at PantheaCon in the Bay area? Never mind, though. I was just curious to see what your defintion of "scholar" is.

[Lark]

Who'd have thought it...better than 99% correct!

Been hanging around with my Hellenic Recon friends entirely too much it seems.

-Lark-

[eihdos]

Who'd have thought it...better than 99% correct!

Been hanging around with my Hellenic Recon friends entirely too much it seems.



Is it possible to spend too much time around Hellenic Recons? ;)

[raven grimassi]

I thought you said that von Rudloff's book had been recommended by two specific panels, one at Pacifica Graduate Institute and another at PantheaCon in the Bay area? Never mind, though. I was just curious to see what your defintion of "scholar" is.

Ah, I see. My definition of a scholar is probably more liberal than the traditional criteria required for Pacifica. PantheaCon is perhaps not as rigid by comparison, but I think even you would acknowledge the scholarly background of the academics who speak there. One example is Sabina Magliocco, an anthropologist at California State University-Northridge.

My contribution to the current project on mythology and modern paganism has been enriched by talks with Sabina, as well as email correspondence with Ronald Hutton. So I am not unfamiliar with what constitutes a scholar by whatever definition you wish to use.

[ObsessedFae86]

Wow that was hard..mainly because I don't know much about Hekate..I scored low but wish they let you see the results and correct answers..

[eihdos]

I scored low but wish they let you see the results and correct answers..


Answers here.
http://www.ecauldron.net/index.php?w...ON&msg=7598.13


.Eihdos

[DixieWitch]

I scored a 94% @ 99% better than my peers.

[Theres]

I scored a 94% @ 99% better than my peers.
that doesn't surprise me in the least. ;)

[DixieWitch]

that doesn't surprise me in the least. ;)
LOL well yeah it's only thanks to you!!!!:hugz: