Egyptian Gods vs. God of the Bible

[Anubis RainHawk]

I go to a small Christian high school in San Francisco. A few weeks ago, my Bible class was given an assignment to illustrate one of the ten plagues and write the name of the Egyptian deity defied by the plague on the back of the illustration. The way my teacher described the assignment, an Egyptian deity was defied because the plagues showed that the Gods were not truly in contol, that the God of the Bible was in control. As an example, on of my clasmates wrote that Ra was defied by the plague of darkness.

I'm curious as to your thoughts? Would you support my teacher's assignment? If not, why?

Thanks.

Anubis RainHawk

[Toby Stimpson]

Im not quite sure if I fully udnerstand what your assignment was...but by what I get...that is to correlate what Egyptian deity corresponds with the plagues of Egypt...I think that is quite well silly. But then again, it does seem to fall into the whole Christian idea of seperatuion between Biblical truth and mere myth of a dead culture...well, thats generalizing but it does fit.

Namaste

Tobias

[aluokaloo]

do I support it, well I dunno, but perhaps you could offer up a unique viewpoint all your own.

[Anubis RainHawk]

Ok, this was the assignment:

"Part 1: Illustrate the plague assigned to you. Draw a picture, make a collage, etc. Use your creativity.

Part 2: Each of Egypt defied and Egyptian god. Find out which god and how your plague defied it. Document this on the back of your illustration."

[Ahautenites]

I go to a small Christian high school in San Francisco. A few weeks ago, my Bible class was given an assignment to illustrate one of the ten plagues and write the name of the Egyptian deity defied by the plague on the back of the illustration. The way my teacher described the assignment, an Egyptian deity was defied because the plagues showed that the Gods were not truly in contol, that the God of the Bible was in control. As an example, on of my clasmates wrote that Ra was defied by the plague of darkness.

I'm curious as to your thoughts? Would you support my teacher's assignment? If not, why?

Thanks.

Anubis RainHawk

Your assignment sucks. But unfortunately, you go to a Christian school, so you have to play by their rules.

You could feasibly say that the Christian God defied Set, god of Chaos, by one-upping Him (Set) and creating all of those plagues first, before Set could. That would also satisfy your teacher because Set is also considered The Devil by Christians.

However.... **hunts to find a list of the plagues**

Well, here's exactly what your teacher wants you to write:
http://www.ccpc.net/~ephraim/10_Plagues.html

So, now you can just copy it and pass it in for a grade. :)

[Anubis RainHawk]

Your assignment sucks. But unfortunately, you go to a Christian school, so you have to play by their rules.

You could feasibly say that the Christian God defied Set, god of Chaos, by one-upping Him (Set) and creating all of those plagues first, before Set could. That would also satisfy your teacher because Set is also considered The Devil by Christians.

However.... **hunts to find a list of the plagues**

Well, here's exactly what your teacher wants you to write:
http://www.ccpc.net/~ephraim/10_Plagues.html

So, now you can just copy it and pass it in for a grade. :)

It does suck, but if I had some way to prove him wrong he wouldn't just shut me up. The link is exaclty the assigment, but I actually already turned it in. Thanks for your reply.

Anubis RainHawk

[Ahautenites]

Oh, and as to whether I'd support your teacher's assignment:

No. I wouldn't be caught dead going to a private school, particularly not one that wasn't of my religion, and particularly not one that deliberately bashes my religion. :)

But, on the off chance that the Universe had decided that it really hated me and had made me go to a parochial school, I would support your teacher's assignment. It's a matter of respecting authority, and respecting the institution that was giving me an education. If I were Kemetic and forced to go to this school, I would probably do exactly what I just did. Find that link above and pass it in for a grade and be in a bitchy mood about it for the next couple weeks. I wouldn't bother to put any personal beliefs in it, in an effort to somehow "educate" the teacher. I'd have more luck trying to educate a brick wall.

[Ahautenites]

If you're looking to prove him wrong, you would need to find out if there ever was a plague of blood. I'm inclined to think that there wasn't, or that if there was, it would be some Christian's point of view on the story of how the Eye of Ra (Het-hert as She becomes Sekhmet) had to be pacified by beer that had red ochre in it to look like blood, so that She would drink it and fall asleep (and so stop killing people now that Ra had told Her to stop).

A plague of frogs would not necessarily have been a bad thing. Frogs eat insects and flies (of which there were plenty of both in that river community). They were considered sacred and magical and would only last until the ground dried up again after the Nile's annual flooding had receded.

I have no idea how gnats could be considered an affront to Geb. Gnats are found in practically every patch of marshland. It would only mean more food for the frogs (which we already know are well-liked). How would a gnat affect a god who is considered to be the earth, and therefore can't be bothered by the gnats on His body that wouldn't be interested in eating His body anyway?

Egypt ALWAYS has a lot of flies. They had flies before the Christian religion was even imagined. How it would defy Khepera is beyond me. And why are the flies in defiance of Khepera? Shouldn't the gnats be in defiance of Him, too?

A plague of livestock.... if it were just to be an affront to Apis or Menwer (Mnevis), it would have only affected cattle. But this plague more than just cattle.

Plague of boils.... Imhotep and Djehuty are not the same god. Djehuty is a scribe god, a god of wisdom. He can be a god of healing, too, but frequently that task falls to Aset and Sekhmet. Imhotep was the greatest human doctor the Egyptians had ever had. He was deified to honor him for that contribution.

Hail.... An attack on Nut? Um, no. Nut is the sky. The hail would be coming FROM Her, not an attack ON Her. She has nothing to do with the harvest. **reads further** Set? The god of protecting the harvest? What planet is this person from? Wesir is the seed. Set is the one who ensures that the full-grown seed is cut down. They are life and death (and rebirth) entwined. Set has nothing to do with protecting a harvest. If anything, He'd be the one to have caused the hail in the first place, so that yes, the crop would be destroyed, but maybe something that had been hidden in the tall grasses would have been found. Or else that the hail would have driven the people to seek shelter rather than being outside when something bad happens, like a runaway bull on the rampage that just happened to plow right through the field where the farmer would have been if it hadn't been hailing.

Locusts.... Why would Yinepu care? He's a god of embalming and cemeteries, not a god of the harvest. The hail ain't gonna hurt someone who's already dead, dude. And He knows that. (And in fact, He's laughing His ass off right now in my head at this ludicrous thing.) **edited to add** Hail... locusts.... I got over excited and forgot which plague I was on. **sheepish smile** Still, locusts aren't going to do any damage to a dead person, and Yinepu still isn't a harvest god, so the reasoning still stands.

Darkness can't be an attack on Ra. Kemet already HAS a god of darkness. Kau, whose name means Darkness, and his wife Kauket. They were two of the eight primordial deities that created the world. Set has nothing to do with the creation of darkness, unless He chooses to conveniently make a lightbulb burn out so that you have to replace it, and while doing so you realize that you need to throw the lamp away because it's got a frayed cord that would have caused a fire. (See? He does chaotic things.... but there's almost always a good reason.) Anyway, there is no way in hell this plague could ever have happened. There's no record of it at all in Egyptian scrolls, and goodness knows, they wrote plenty. **shrugs** Tell any person who believes this tripe to find me some actual archaeological proof OUTSIDE of a Bible account.

Killing all the first-born.... Sadly, there actually was a time in Kemetic history where human sacrifice was performed. It was during a time of incredibly dire need. The Nile had become all but dried up and the people needed the waters for their lives and their livelihood. And at one point, it was decided to make such a sacrifice to the gods, in the hope that this would get Their attention and get Them to deliver the much-needed annual flooding. Now, all I have to say about this plague is the same I had to say about the last one: Show me proof in archaeological records outside of those associated with the Bible that demonstrate that some mystical thing killed off the first-born of people and animals.

[Anubis RainHawk]

If you're looking to prove him wrong, you would need to find out if there ever was a plague of blood. I'm inclined to think that there wasn't, or that if there was, it would be some Christian's point of view on the story of how the Eye of Ra (Het-hert as She becomes Sekhmet) had to be pacified by beer that had red ochre in it to look like blood, so that She would drink it and fall asleep (and so stop killing people now that Ra had told Her to stop).

A plague of frogs would not necessarily have been a bad thing. Frogs eat insects and flies (of which there were plenty of both in that river community). They were considered sacred and magical and would only last until the ground dried up again after the Nile's annual flooding had receded.

I have no idea how gnats could be considered an affront to Geb. Gnats are found in practically every patch of marshland. It would only mean more food for the frogs (which we already know are well-liked). How would a gnat affect a god who is considered to be the earth, and therefore can't be bothered by the gnats on His body that wouldn't be interested in eating His body anyway?

Egypt ALWAYS has a lot of flies. They had flies before the Christian religion was even imagined. How it would defy Khepera is beyond me. And why are the flies in defiance of Khepera? Shouldn't the gnats be in defiance of Him, too?

A plague of livestock.... if it were just to be an affront to Apis or Menwer (Mnevis), it would have only affected cattle. But this plague more than just cattle.

Plague of boils.... Imhotep and Djehuty are not the same god. Djehuty is a scribe god, a god of wisdom. He can be a god of healing, too, but frequently that task falls to Aset and Sekhmet. Imhotep was the greatest human doctor the Egyptians had ever had. He was deified to honor him for that contribution.

Hail.... An attack on Nut? Um, no. Nut is the sky. The hail would be coming FROM Her, not an attack ON Her. She has nothing to do with the harvest. **reads further** Set? The god of protecting the harvest? What planet is this person from? Wesir is the seed. Set is the one who ensures that the full-grown seed is cut down. They are life and death (and rebirth) entwined. Set has nothing to do with protecting a harvest. If anything, He'd be the one to have caused the hail in the first place, so that yes, the crop would be destroyed, but maybe something that had been hidden in the tall grasses would have been found. Or else that the hail would have driven the people to seek shelter rather than being outside when something bad happens, like a runaway bull on the rampage that just happened to plow right through the field where the farmer would have been if it hadn't been hailing.

Locusts.... Why would Yinepu care? He's a god of embalming and cemeteries, not a god of the harvest. The hail ain't gonna hurt someone who's already dead, dude. And He knows that. (And in fact, He's laughing His ass off right now in my head at this ludicrous thing.)

Darkness can't be an attack on Ra. Kemet already HAS a god of darkness. Kau, whose name means Darkness, and his wife Kauket. They were two of the eight primordial deities that created the world. Set has nothing to do with the creation of darkness, unless He chooses to conveniently make a lightbulb burn out so that you have to replace it, and while doing so you realize that you need to throw the lamp away because it's got a frayed cord that would have caused a fire. (See? He does chaotic things.... but there's almost always a good reason.) Anyway, there is no way in hell this plague could ever have happened. There's no record of it at all in Egyptian scrolls, and goodness knows, they wrote plenty. **shrugs** Tell any person who believes this tripe to find me some actual archaeological proof OUTSIDE of a Bible account.

Killing all the first-born.... Sadly, there actually was a time in Kemetic history where human sacrifice was performed. It was during a time of incredibly dire need. The Nile had become all but dried up and the people needed the waters for their lives and their livelihood. And at one point, it was decided to make such a sacrifice to the gods, in the hope that this would get Their attention and get Them to deliver the much-needed annual flooding. Now, all I have to say about this plague is the same I had to say about the last one: Show me proof in archaeological records outside of those associated with the Bible that demonstrate that some mystical thing killed off the first-born of people and animals.

WOW! Thanks so much! That is extremely helpful. It make a lot of sense and I really appreciate that you took the time to type all that out :)

Anubis RainHawk

[Dawa Lhamo]

WOW! Thanks so much! That is extremely helpful. It make a lot of sense and I really appreciate that you took the time to type all that out :)

Anubis RainHawkI agree. That's really awesome; I learned a lot. ^_^ I don't even remember what I was going to suggest, because this is so much better. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Choro's Mom]

My immediate gut reaction was, "Oh, PLEEEEEEZE let me do frogs!"

And then to "illustrate," set scores of frogs loose in the classroom. :hehehe:

[LordHelmet]

Go with it. If you follow the creation story it closely resembles babylonian Myth of creation. Nonchristian (and many christian) historians feel that the creation story, Adam and Eve, Noa and flood, Tower of Babel, The Plauges of Egypt, and The Parting Waters were all written when Isreal left captivity in babylon, while in persia. The theroy is that these stories, just like the stories of the pagans around them weren't meant to be taken literaly at all but were for creating interesting stories to revive their religion. Many of the followers the secound covenant weren't Isrealite descent leaving Persia. Otherwise we could also take stories of genocide (man woman and child, and do not spare the cattle or the sheep) as the word of God, who so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that we could all not perish but be saved... something like that. It would be interesting to point out that with all the biblical sholars scowering the digs they haven't found one decent shred of evidence for the plauges outside of the biblical. Not one cooaberating record from Egypt or anyone else. Then again it wouldn't be their first cover up, just their best.

[cheddarsox]

I'm guessing this is going to "backfire" from teacher's perspective. Students will get sooo interested reading about the Egyption netjer that they will look further into it...

Teacher probably doesn't know that Kemetic relgions are alive and well.

Oh well

cheddar

[Heart of Isis]

Great idea! The only thing I would add is that any of the Egyptian deities are considered to be the devil or linked with the devil by christians and that even includes Isis! Most christians think she's a she-devil. (Of course, this now brings up the whole male only domination thing I won't go into here).

Heart of Isis


Your assignment sucks. But unfortunately, you go to a Christian school, so you have to play by their rules.

You could feasibly say that the Christian God defied Set, god of Chaos, by one-upping Him (Set) and creating all of those plagues first, before Set could. That would also satisfy your teacher because Set is also considered The Devil by Christians.

However.... **hunts to find a list of the plagues**

Well, here's exactly what your teacher wants you to write:
http://www.ccpc.net/~ephraim/10_Plagues.html

So, now you can just copy it and pass it in for a grade. :)