Double Jepoardy in The Karma World

[MysticWitch]

If you honestly feel like you are receving karma for an undone punishment, do the double jepoardy laws apply to the rules of karma. Can u do spell work to protect you self and bind a person without repercutions because you already received the karma you would have gotten AFTER the binding/protection work was done?
Hope I didn't confuse anyone :lol:

[star_belfire]

Um...............That has happened to me before I got the karma before the action. If thats what our asking.

[MysticWitch]

Um...............That has happened to me before I got the karma before the action. If thats what Your asking.

Yes! Does that mean because you have been punished.. u are allowed to do what you want to whomever gave u the karma :foh:

[RedRaven]

eh, depends how you view karma. i dont view it as the whole 3 fold bs. my view of karma is cause and effect, action and reaction, etc.

RR

[Dawa Lhamo]

Ummm, isn't it possible that the karma you get "before" an action could be for something completely different? I mean, I was under the impression that you can't *really* tell what action results in what karma. In most stories I've read (Hindu, Buddhist, Jain), ordinary people just aren't perceptive enough to be able to tell. It's only the Buddhas or the Tirthamkaras or other enlightened beings that are able to *really* see the karmic pattern.

I have taken several classes on South Asian religions and philosophies, and a class specifically on "Karma and Rebirth", just to be clear, and I don't think I've ever come upon what you've just described.

Perhaps it isn't an "undone action", but something you've done before in a past life? It might be the very same action, and you haven't "broken the habit", but since you don't remember doing it before in the past life, it "seems" as if you're getting the karma before the fact. In which case, yes, you would get karmic 'retribution' again. It's like being prosecuted for the first murder, and then prosecuted for a second murder. Not really double jeopardy at all.

Of course, if you're thinking in a non-linear time, it's possible, but I wouldn't count on it. I wouldn't say, "well, I've already received the karma for this action, so I might as well do it because I can't be punished twice". That's just too dangerous. Unless you're *really* an enlightened being, I don't think you can really make that kind of decision and expect it to be right.

And most people, I've found, aren't *really* enlightened yet. ^_^ Especially not those who claim to be.

I'd play it safe, if I were you, and expect some kind of karmic result *after* you do said action.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[MysticWitch]

Very interesting! :thumbsup:
So what exactally happens to those who dont believe in Karma? Does Karma only affect the believers and the non believers can do as they please without punishment? :foh:


Ummm, isn't it possible that the karma you get "before" an action could be for something completely different? I mean, I was under the impression that you can't *really* tell what action results in what karma. In most stories I've read (Hindu, Buddhist, Jain), ordinary people just aren't perceptive enough to be able to tell. It's only the Buddhas or the Tirthamkaras or other enlightened beings that are able to *really* see the karmic pattern.

I have taken several classes on South Asian religions and philosophies, and a class specifically on "Karma and Rebirth", just to be clear, and I don't think I've ever come upon what you've just described.

Perhaps it isn't an "undone action", but something you've done before in a past life? It might be the very same action, and you haven't "broken the habit", but since you don't remember doing it before in the past life, it "seems" as if you're getting the karma before the fact. In which case, yes, you would get karmic 'retribution' again. It's like being prosecuted for the first murder, and then prosecuted for a second murder. Not really double jeopardy at all.

Of course, if you're thinking in a non-linear time, it's possible, but I wouldn't count on it. I wouldn't say, "well, I've already received the karma for this action, so I might as well do it because I can't be punished twice". That's just too dangerous. Unless you're *really* an enlightened being, I don't think you can really make that kind of decision and expect it to be right.

And most people, I've found, aren't *really* enlightened yet. ^_^ Especially not those who claim to be.

I'd play it safe, if I were you, and expect some kind of karmic result *after* you do said action.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Dawa Lhamo]

Very interesting! :thumbsup:
So what exactally happens to those who dont believe in Karma? Does Karma only affect the believers and the non believers can do as they please without punishment? :foh:Well, as a person who believes in karma, I believe that *everyone* is affected by karma, not just those who believe in it. I believe that they probably just don't recognize it for what it is. ^_^ It sounds arrogant, yes, but it's a lot simpler to believe that than to believe that a 'universal' law only affects some people. ^_^

The non-believers would probably say that no-one is affected by karma, whether they believe it or not. That we karma believers are simply searching for a way to explain suffering, and we are coming to the wrong conclusion.

Of course, most people believe that there's SOME kind of punishment for harmful actions. If not karma, then via God(s) or socially or mentally or whatever. "There's no such thing as a free lunch" seems to be a rather commonly-accepted idea... i.e. you can't just get away with things without *somehow* paying for it...

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Cyzarine]

I also believe that karma effects all. To me it just depends on what your actions are. You could do something bad in someone elses eyes and yet you may not recieve bad karma for it. If it was done to protect yourself or others I am pretty sure karma wouldn't bite your behind that bad.

[jcldragon]

Causes happen before effects. That is the overwhelmingly normal course of events in this Universe. This is as true on the Higher Planes as it is on the Lower Planes. The very special conditions when this is not quite so, (as when light emerges from a superconducting field before entering it), is something that only an Adept might attempt.

So it strikes me that you are looking for an excuse to do someone mischief. To do so, will only perpetuate suffering, both for yourself, and anybody else involved. Suffering just plain isn't worth it. Sometimes you just have to let things go, in order to get out of a repeating cycle of suffering.

The most powerful binding spell is hatred. When you really hate something you bind it closer to yourself, than your own breath. Hate something, and you will find it completely inescapable. Anywhere you turn, and everywhere you go, the things you hate will be there... often before you arrive.

[MysticWitch]

So it strikes me that you are looking for an excuse to do someone mischief.




Nope. Im having some bad karma right now and I cant think of what I might have done wrong. _inlove_

[Happy Shrew]

Can't excrement just happen? I'd hate to think all of those SIDS victims did something wrong to deserve death.

[Elderbush]

I think that past lives have to be the answer then, although I'm no expert since my religion is Wicca and karma is not part of that. The law of return, yes. Karma, no.

The question about karma affecting us all...I do believe in cause and effect but since I do not believe that my goal is to reach the ultimate goal of Hinduism or Buddhism any more than my goal is to reach heaven. So how would karma affect me or others who do not believe in reincarnation?

[MysticWitch]

I'm no expert since my religion is Wicca and karma is not part of that. The law of return, yes. Karma, no.



How does that work :foh:

[EternalMaiden]

If we live/act like victims we're treated as one.

... That being said.
Do what you will.

[jcldragon]

Nope. Im having some bad karma right now and I cant think of what I might have done wrong. _inlove_We don't actually create all of our own bad Karma. You can also inherit some from the people to which you are attached. Another thing to consider, is that Karma isn't the only Law of the Universe. Gravitation is very powerful, too. We gravitate conditions into manefestation according to how we think & believe. An attitude of inharmony is enough to generate lots of it.

Can't excrement just happen? I'd hate to think all of those SIDS victims did something wrong to deserve death.The Universe does not operate according to a Reward & Punishment system. That is an entirely human concept. Life & Death are natural processes, and neither should be feared. Both could be considered rewards & both could be considered punishments... depending upon the circumstances.

Every time someone goes through the Cycle of Death, a bit of the negativity attached to them gets loosened, and flakes away, so to speak. People can actually reincarnate very quickly, so a short incarnation might be a boon. A person might have several short incarnations before beginning a very long one. People reincarnate into situations that very closely match their Karma.

Obviously, the parents who lose a child in a crib death, are not going to feel this. They will be devastated. They will wonder if they are being punished. There are more Laws than just Karma operating in the Universe, and the whole process is very complex, and certainly not easily understandable to any one, even when they have the perspective of remembering many past incarnations.

The Lord Buddha said that Life is Suffering...

[Morgandria]

Don't believe in "bad karma". Karma is neither bad nor good, and does not punish or reward.

[Elderbush]

How does that work :foh:

The quick version is that what you put out in the universe will come back to you, one way or another.

We also believe that random stuff just happens, for no apparent reason. It isn't always your fault, in other words. if you've been putting good out into the universe then perhaps during those times when things do just "happen," you will have the support of friends to help you through it.

[9-2-2]

Karma works if you believe it does.
Ruling over that, the Universe will push events into fruition if they need to happen. And there are things that happen for no reason. The Universe is boundless and beyond that concept, but it can use it as a tool to further certain agendas and goals.

[EternalMaiden]

Don't believe in "bad karma". Karma is neither bad nor good, and does not punish or reward.

Totally. We deserve. There's no shame or pride in it, (I am very fond of Buddhist teachings where humility is the ultimate goal)
Either way, accepting that "life is handing you bad karma, who's to blame?" is a victimized statement, you see... By believing in that, you become a victim of bad karma, over, and over again.

To accept that "I'm just having some tough times right now, what can I do to make this better?"
Surely would lead some good juju your way!

Love and Light, Take good care of yourself.
Tara

[MysticWitch]

Totally. We deserve. There's no shame or pride in it, (I am very fond of Buddhist teachings where humility is the ultimate goal)
Either way, accepting that "life is handing you bad karma, who's to blame?" is a victimized statement, you see... By believing in that, you become a victim of bad karma, over, and over again.

To accept that "I'm just having some tough times right now, what can I do to make this better?"
Surely would lead some good juju your way!

Love and Light, Take good care of yourself.
Tara


So if u cursed someone or magickally tried to harm them.. no ill would come to you as punishment?

[9-2-2]

So if u cursed someone or magickally tried to harm them.. no ill would come to you as punishment?

Not if you don't believe it does... if you very strongly believed that karma functions in such a manner, well, then your will follows suit. Many end up punishing themselves as a result.

[MysticWitch]

I think so too. :rolleyes:

[DarkWaltz]

Would you view it morally wrong to ask for karma to be upheld on others?

[Dawa Lhamo]

Would you view it morally wrong to ask for karma to be upheld on others?Like in a prayer or something? No. A bit redundant, but not really wrong.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[9-2-2]

Would you view it morally wrong to ask for karma to be upheld on others?

No. Would you find it morally wrong, if you were about to be flattened by an on-coming vehicle, to ask the Gods to avert the will of the Universe to save your life? The will of the Universe is not set in stone... if you were meant to die and escape your fate, your futures change and shift like a tapestry of snakes. The Universe doesn't always hound someone until they're dead... people change, events change, and fate is often averted by sheer change. Sometimes escaping death or a fate will put you on a path where you learn lessons, and thus don't need to encounter that fate again.

You don't have to "ask" the Universe, or karma, or chihuahuas, either... just enforce your will to affect change.

[jcldragon]

When Karma is resolved, the cycle ceases to repeat itself. If that Karma is resolved on the Higher Planes, then it will not manefest upon the Physical Plane.

[MysticWitch]

:hmmmmm:

[Vincent Verthaine]

Well, as a person who believes in karma, I believe that *everyone* is affected by karma, not just those who believe in it. I believe that they probably just don't recognize it for what it is. ^_^ It sounds arrogant, yes, but it's a lot simpler to believe that than to believe that a 'universal' law only affects some people. ^_^

The non-believers would probably say that no-one is affected by karma, whether they believe it or not. That we karma believers are simply searching for a way to explain suffering, and we are coming to the wrong conclusion.

Of course, most people believe that there's SOME kind of punishment for harmful actions. If not karma, then via God(s) or socially or mentally or whatever. "There's no such thing as a free lunch" seems to be a rather commonly-accepted idea... i.e. you can't just get away with things without *somehow* paying for it...

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

Sorry Dawa,but I disagree.Karma is an opinion,not a "universal law".A universal law must be applicable in any place,in any circumstance,in any time.
We don't know that animals accrue karma.How about plants.Bacteria?.Rocks?
karma is dependent on living beings Quantum physics states that multiple universes are possible,and many of them inhospitible to life as we know it.If thats a little too out the box how about'Is there there karma in moon at this very moment".
There is no such thing as a UNIVERSAL LAW.Only a set of guideline dependend on the circumstances at that moment.Different universes may have entirely different sets of physics.
The one of the only thing that can be said to be Universal is Chaos,becuase Chaos underlines every thing.Chaos ]effects evreything.Chaos transends time,space,and dimensions.

[AngryGeekGirl]

I was taught that the term karma is a reference to the idea of cause and effect. Basicly, what you do now will have an effect on your life in the future and in your future lives as well. Its shouldn't be viewed as a system of rewards and punishments at all.

AGG

[Thunder]

Karma is not a bank account. IMO, negative acts fill your boat with water, good acts bail it out. You don't get to choose which thing is cleared off the list. It is the balance that matters.

[Salanthos]

umm, as far as I can tell, you are talking aboutsomething like the three-fold law, not karma or at least not the hindu concept of karma. karma is simply the lessons that are necessary to learn. if someone's actions reflect a moral lack, karma may appear 'punishing', but if that person did nothing wrong, as long as that lesson needed to be learned the karmic action would have happened anyway. and the lesson could be anything, including something like 'problems happen regardless'.

so, in my long-winded way, to get back to your question, there's no such thing as double-jepordy with karma. it is not really connected to your actions at all, except how they show your spirit. it is possible to get thwacked across the nose multiple times for the same reason, whether that reason is acted out or not.

sorry, I think I rambled off...