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Crystal Raven
November 13th, 2005, 09:55 AM
I am what one would consider ecceltic, but specificly Celtic Recon/Goddess Orientated with Kitchen Witch leanings.
(Imagine a solitary female healer in a Scottish village focused on The Goddess)

Anyone else here on a similar path? _wiz_

medit8ive_spirit
November 13th, 2005, 10:07 AM
I've never really put a label on my path but after reading your post....I guess that is how mine may be best described. I have Celtic and Native American roots and have been focused on the Goddess.

BB
Roze

Gnoblod
November 13th, 2005, 10:18 AM
Who is "The Goddess?"

Crystal Raven
November 13th, 2005, 10:34 AM
any female aspect of the divine...which could be any number of Dieties, from almost any pantheon, but as I am asking about Celtic I would assume it would be one of the Celtic Goddesses.

Gnoblod
November 13th, 2005, 10:45 AM
Just curious. There's never been any Celtic belief in "The Goddess", so that coupled with the "Celtic Recon" thing threw me for a loop.

medit8ive_spirit
November 13th, 2005, 11:23 AM
To address the Celtic Goddess issue...and keeping in mind respect, try reading "The Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom: A Celtic Shaman's Source Book" by Catlin & John Matthews. There are several references to Celtic Goddesses, including the 'three major Goddesses of Ireland-Banba, Fotla and Eire(Eriu).' There is also the Celtic Goddess,-Cerridwen as well as others.

"The Goddess" as Shay Shay refers to, "is any female aspect of the divine." She may be referred to as "The Goddess", "She Who Is", "Mother Goddess". There are many references and names given to "The Goddess". Try visiting Starhawk's website or Sprial Goddess Grove at spiralgoddess.com or Mother Goddess at mothergoddess.com. Maybe this will help clarify being 'thrown for a loop'.

Gnoblod
November 13th, 2005, 11:34 AM
To address the Celtic Goddess issue...and keeping in mind respect...

I don't believe I've been disrespectful at all. I'm just asking questions and explaining why.


...try reading "The Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom: A Celtic Shaman's Source Book" by Catlin & John Matthews.

What is a "Celtic shaman?"

I've read the Matthews before. They're interesting, but extremely interpretive of the source material. There's nothing wrong with that in itself, but we shouldn't call modern ideas "Celtic" if they're not.


There are several references to Celtic Goddesses, including the 'three major Goddesses of Ireland-Banba, Fotla and Eire(Eriu).' There is also the Celtic Goddess,-Cerridwen as well as others.

But this is entirely different than "The Goddess."


"The Goddess" as Shay Shay refers to, "is any female aspect of the divine." She may be referred to as "The Goddess", "She Who Is", "Mother Goddess".

This deity you refer to isn't a Celtic one, though. That's what causes my confusion.

I deduce at this point that you hold the non-Celtic belief that "all goddesses are aspects of The Goddess" or something very similar. Am I correct?


There are many references and names given to "The Goddess".

...by modern neopagans. Not Celts (at least, not Celts who aren't modern neopagans as well).


Try visiting Starhawk's website or Sprial Goddess Grove at spiralgoddess.com or Mother Goddess at mothergoddess.com. Maybe this will help clarify being 'thrown for a loop'.

Starhawk isn't a Celt, nor is her religion Celtic.

Do you understand my confusion at the conflation of the two different concepts? It's not disrespectful, just...confused.

I think I get it now, though.

medit8ive_spirit
November 13th, 2005, 11:55 AM
I never said that you were disrepsectful, I just make note in my posting that I am keeping in mind the respect aspect. Each person has a right to their own opinion, path, etc. As for my note of Starhawk, it was not to say that she is Celt, etc. it was to see her references to Goddesses or "The Goddess". As for a definition of "What is a Celtic Shaman?"- here is the quote from Caitlin Matthews and a similar definition is given in other books--"A Celtic Shaman is one involved in an outwardly search by means of a journey for a variety of reasons: to gain information, healing or wisdom; to commune with the spirits of the ancestors, or with animal and plant allies; to bring healing to the sick by the restoration of virtue, fertility or vital energy; to seek for collective tribal empowerment for a people bereft of leadership; or to find lost objects or souls. On returning from such a soul-journey, the shaman then relates the experience, if it has not already been simultaneously sung outloud, to the one seeking the information, healing or empowerment." "The word Shaman was not applied by the Celts to their spiritual practitioners, but it is a term which people understand today", which is why the Matthews used it. "Shamanism exists among peoples who have an animistic world-view......identifiable the world over by it's practices, chief of which are the spirit-journeys to gain information, healing, divinatory and prophetic insight. All these are part of the Celtic tradition."

The Matthews have done extensive research into Celtic ways, traditions and have interpreted the ways of old, not modern ideas.

Gnoblod
November 13th, 2005, 12:12 PM
I never said that you were disrepsectful, I just make note in my posting that I am keeping in mind the respect aspect.

Ok. :)


As for my note of Starhawk, it was not to say that she is Celt, etc. it was to see her references to Goddesses or "The Goddess".

I understand that. I just don't see how it ties into anything Celtic.

I believe my confusion stemmed solely from someone using the term "Celtic Recon" in conjunction with worshipping "The Goddess." In my experience, the people who call themselves recons are usually interested in beliefs that are historically-attested to the culture(s) in question, rather than modern beliefs like Starhawk's.


As for a definition of "What is a Celtic Shaman?"- here is the quote from Caitlin Matthews and a similar definition is given in other books--"A Celtic Shaman is one involved in an outwardly search by means of a journey for a variety of reasons: to gain information, healing or wisdom; to commune with the spirits of the ancestors, or with animal and plant allies; to bring healing to the sick by the restoration of virtue, fertility or vital energy; to seek for collective tribal empowerment for a people bereft of leadership; or to find lost objects or souls. On returning from such a soul-journey, the shaman then relates the experience, if it has not already been simultaneously sung outloud, to the one seeking the information, healing or empowerment."

I don't really see how any of that suggests anything "Celtic."


"Shamanism exists among peoples who have an animistic world-view......identifiable the world over by it's practices, chief of which are the spirit-journeys to gain information, healing, divinatory and prophetic insight. All these are part of the Celtic tradition."

But engaging in them doesn't make anything Celtic.


The Matthews have done extensive research into Celtic ways, traditions and have interpreted the ways of old, not modern ideas.

Their interpretations are the modern ideas. _inabox_ Their translations are loose when they need to be to support their point, and they sometimes extrapolate a bit far, the example that jumps out at me the most being their "cauldrons" system...they invented the techniques themselves, and will admit it if asked. They're inspired by some Celtic ideas, but that doesn't make them Celtic.

Crystal Raven
November 13th, 2005, 02:28 PM
Ok, let me clarify since I started this...

first off I did primarily state that I am ecelectic.

the Recon part is that I try as best as I can, with study, research and information from sites such as this to do things as they may (or may not) have been done in Scotland in earlier times. I make no claim to being accurate or a zealist about this aspect of my practice. I can't chant a spell as I churn butter as I have no access to a butter churn, nor do I spin as I have no spinning wheel (though I'd love to have one one day) :bouncysmi

My original question was partly about
Goddess Orientated
I do not profess to be Dianic either, but do pay far far more attention to the feminine aspects and "The Goddess".

When I refer to "The Goddess", personally, I am thinking of The Morrigan. Again I claim no historical or dianic correctness in this, but She is my matron, and my Goddess. But I am well aware that The Morrigan is not for everyone, hence

any female aspect of the divine...which could be any number of Dieties, from almost any pantheon, but as I am asking about Celtic I would assume it would be one of the Celtic Goddesses
when I replied to your question.

Gnoblod
November 13th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Mmkay. I get sidetracked too easy. :excuseme:

medit8ive_spirit
November 13th, 2005, 02:37 PM
Shay Shay, I did not mean to start a debate in your thread, I was trying to let you know that I follow a similar path and also to give the other poster some info. to answer their questions.
Please accept my apologies as it was not my intent to have someone get into such a debate with me. I know what I have read, believe and feel and obviously, the other poster does not agree, which is their right.

Crystal Raven
November 13th, 2005, 02:53 PM
No offense taken from anyone :cheers:
Having different beliefs, opinions and thoughts are what makes us all human and interesting!!!


So do I be brave and ask if anyone else is on a similar ecelectic path? :yayah: