Question for Canaanite pagans

[David19]

Hi i'm hoping you can help me out here. I'm interested in middle eastern paganism especially Canaanite, Hebrew and other Western Semitic pagan religions (i'm not sure if there are more besides those two) and i've found a lot of information on both but there are still some things that i'm not sure about.

Is Yahweh a member of the Canaanite pantheon since i heard on one site that he was a cupbearer in El's court or something like that? if he is what's he a god of?

Also is Hebraic paganism the same as Canaanite since i've read things that say it is and others that say they're both different.

Do Canaanite pagans believe in and practice magic(k) or are there special types that you do (like Asatru has seidr, etc)

Are you Hard polytheists like do you believe that each god and spirit is an individual being and that the Olympians are different, the Norse, African, Aztec, etc or is it more like the wiccan view that 'all gods are one god'?

Thanks, BTW sorry if that's a lot of questions, it's just i'm not too sure about some of the things :).

[OpenHands]

David,

First off, I'm glad that you found your way over to the Natib Qadish discussion group- I think you'll get a lot of good information there. That link I sent you to the beginners JudeoPagan group a few weeks back via PM should be helpful as well if you get a chance to stop by.

"Is Yahweh a member of the Canaanite pantheon since i heard on one site that he was a cupbearer in El's court or something like that?"

What website was this from? And no, not to my knowledge. YHWH, according to theology, is the god of the Israelites. The Canaanites had their own gods. Perhaps you're thinking of some quotes from Psalms in the OT? Like Psalm 82:1 "God has taken his place in the divine counsil; in the midst of the gods he holds judgement" This may be referring to the Canaanite divine counsil that El presides over. Or you're thinking of the similar qualities between YHWH and the gods El and Baal that show up in OT and Ugaritic literature?

"Also is Hebraic paganism the same as Canaanite since i've read things that say it is and others that say they're both different."

Different. Some overlapping concepts and beliefs, I believe, but two distinctly different religions.

"Do Canaanite pagans believe in and practice magic(k) or are there special types that you do (like Asatru has seidr, etc)"

Depends on the person in question. I personally do not practice any form of magic and generally don't believe in it either. I know other Canaanite pagans who do believe in and/or practice magic. What form they practice depends too. Recons are probably more apt to use traditional ANE forms of magic while more eclectic folks have no issue incorporating more neo-pagan forms.

"Are you Hard polytheists"

Most of us are, yes. The majority of Canaanite pagans, at least from my understanding, view the gods and treat them as distinct entities.

[David19]

i can't remember what site it was but it had a list of Canaanite gods and said Yahweh was a cupbearer along with Baal (i think) in El's court. I wasn't sure at first because i've heard many things from different people who say he was in the Canaanite pantheon and others who say he is a seperate god (from Edom whereever that is).

Thanks for the information that you provided and the judeo-pagan link. I'll try and find that site that i got the information on later (right now i'm at uni and can't really search for long)

[David19]

Ok i just found it, (i should probably be doing work but i'll try and do it later :)) the site was http://www.2eden.net/pantheon.htm and the bit about Yahweh is near the bottom, i'm not sure if it's the right information or not, maybe you'll know more.

[juliaki]

Aside from some pretty hard-to-come-by (and sometimes expensive) books, probably the best resource I used when I was on a Canaanite path was Qadash Kinahnu:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/

[OpenHands]

David,

Thanks for the link. Some of the information looks OK, but some of it...I honestly have no idea where they got it from and they don't mention their sources.

I also went and checked out the main page of the site to get a better idea of what it is and it's...erm...interesting. :) Nazarene Gospel Assembly, hm. I'm not sure this is the best sort of website to get credible information from. Interesting though, thanks for looking that up! You might get more thoughts about it if you posted it at the discussion group too.

I also like the website that Juliaki posted- that's Lilinah's site and was AFAIK the first web source of its kind. It's a mix of Canaanite and Phoenician with some great ideas and inspiration. I tend to go elsewhere for historical information, but definitely a popular and useful site.

[David19]

Just another question, i've heard the Canaanite and Hebrew religions are Western Semitic, are there any other Western Semitic religions or was it all mostly Canaanite and the Ancient Hebrew religion, is Summerian/Mesopatanian Western Semitic or just middle eastern.

And one more quick question, which i'll probablt post in the Canaanite pagan group and Jewish pagan one too, but are there any daily rituals i could start doing for Canaanite paganism or Hebraic paganism?

Thanks

Hope you can help :)

[OpenHands]

David,

I'm not sure about your first question. What I do know is that "Semitic" refers to a language type and not necessarily ethnic groups. Mesopotamia was farther East and not considered part of the Western group that the Canaanites and Hebrews belonged to. The Phoenicia.org website has the Mesopotamian language- Akkadian- down as Eastern Semitic. That'd be a good question to ask at NQ. http://www.phoenicia.org/semlang.html

Second question: We had a very good discussion about this at the list recently, actually. You might want to check it out and see what we all came up with. Everybody does things differently because not much is historically known about daily practice and not everyone is striving to replicate such practices. Depends on if you're leaning more toward recon or eclectic pagan.

My suggestion for most people starting out is to do some research on the gods that you're interested in worshipping, then offer them some praise and present offerings. It never hurts to approach them with gifts and kind words, IMO. :) Prayers and offerings are about as basic as you can get, I think. And they're hard to mess up if done with a sincere heart.

You might also want to start familiarizing yourself with the lunar calendar and get a feel for where we're at in the religious year right now. Some of us have recently celebrated Mrzh- the festival to honor the dead- and others of us are preparing to observe this holiday very soon. http://www.natibqadish.org/feast_hall.htm#introshanat

Good luck with your questions on the Hebrew and Canaanite lists!

[David19]

Just wanted to ask something. Are there any other beings that Canaanite pagans (old or modern) believe in that aren't gods, for example, other supernatural beings like demonic beings, angelic spirits, ghosts, etc.

[OpenHands]

Just wanted to ask something. Are there any other beings that Canaanite pagans (old or modern) believe in that aren't gods, for example, other supernatural beings like demonic beings, angelic spirits, ghosts, etc.

David,

Canaanite pagans who believe that the soul continues on after death generally believe in spirits (the shades of the dead) and perhaps ghosts. The myths talk about a variety of beings that aren't clearly gods, but some of them may be. It's hard to say.

For example, there is a myth that talks about the Eaters and Tearers who could be children of Ba'al or simply monsterous creatures. Litan/Lotan is the equivalent of the biblical Leviathan- a seven headed serpent that Ba'al fights, I believe. Anat brags of battling huge sea dragons and other beings who are referred to as belonging to Ilu.

I don't know of any solid evidence that the ancients believed in other beings. It wouldn't surprise me if they did and I'm sure there are some modern folks who do though. If you're thinking about spirits tied to the land, the closest thing I can think of are the numerous local gods.

[David19]

Cool thanks for the information :). I didn't even think about spirits tied to the land but now that you've mentioned local gods, do Canaanite pagans make any kind of offerings to them like Asatruer do for the land spirits, also are there any sites with information on them.

[OpenHands]

Cool thanks for the information :). I didn't even think about spirits tied to the land but now that you've mentioned local gods, do Canaanite pagans make any kind of offerings to them like Asatruer do for the land spirits, also are there any sites with information on them.
David,

Well, being that they're gods, yes the ancients would have worshipped them. : ) I don't incorporate the practice of worshipping local gods myself so you'd have to talk to one of the other Canaanite pagans that either does or has more knowledge about the topic. I only remember reading that many cities and villages had particular gods associated with them. Some were apparently local manifestations of the main gods in the pantheon, while others may have been completely separate gods.