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David19
November 17th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Can someone tell me what christian deities there are, it's something that i'd like to know about. I think i know that you probably worship Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdiline(sp), do you see saints as demi-gods, and do you see Yahweh as the creater or are you more Gnostic, do you see Yahweh as something like an evil deitiy.

Thanks

LostSheep
November 17th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Well, "the" deity according to traditional Christian thinking is the Big Man Upstairs, as he said himself (according to Moses) "thou shalt not worship false idols"; but the Catholic view of Mary (the Virgin one) comes pretty close to Goddess worship ... then there's all those saints ....

Cyzarine
November 17th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Jesus
Mary
Mary Magdalan
God-Creator
Joseph

I veiw Saints as demi-gods. To me you have the creator...whose life energy is in everything. Then you have lesser gods/goddesses who are just as powerful but are patrons of different things. Then you have 'demi-gods' who are saints and angels. these 'demi-gods' do not guide but aid. That is my veiw though. I also think each being is it's own being. I do not believe that every deity is an illusion of one deity. I believe all are deities...so I'm polythestic in that respect. As well, I do believe that God is neither good or evil, man or woman, etc. God just is. There are more deities...like Lucifer whom I think is a dark deity as is Lilith. They are the dark deities who I recognize in my path. Not really evil...just the balance to the other side.

Christo Pagan
November 17th, 2005, 05:30 PM
My beliefs tend to be more Gnostic, rather than biblically based. I worship both Christ and Sophia as my God and Goddess whom I see as being the masculine and feminine aspects of Deity.

The great Gnostic teacher Valentinus envisioned many different "aeons" (lesser gods) that emanated from the unknowable God that are too numerous to list. If you're inetrested, a great place to learn more about his cosmology would be: www.gnosis.org

Cyzarine
November 17th, 2005, 05:58 PM
I almost forgot...I'll post it now. Holy Spirit should be added to my deities. Holy Spirit is female in gender. I don't put a name on HS either.

David19
November 19th, 2005, 02:44 PM
One other question, i know you probably believe different things but do you believe that gods are individual beings like Zeus is seperate to the Christian God or is it more wiccan-like - 'all gods are one god'.

MariThorn
November 19th, 2005, 03:26 PM
I worship Godde, which I see as Truth, and I see that Godde as an infinite Mystery who reveals itself to mankind as we are able to comprehend it. Mary is the Mother of the Christian God because for the majority of Christians Jesus is God and she is his Mother. Catholics do not worship Mary, we pray to her and the saints to intercede on our behalf just as Christ does. We also see Mary and the saints as examples of Faith to model our lives over. Catholics do not see saints as demi gods. To Catholics there is only one God in three. (See the Apostles Creed or the Nicean Creed)

As for me, I see Godde as Mother and Father, and Mary and the rest are examples to model my life after. Be that Christian or witch . . . :)

Cyzarine
November 19th, 2005, 05:45 PM
I should say that by my use of the word 'demi-god' I don't actually mean God or a god...but one who has the power to guide you in the right direction but nothing more.

Gaudior
November 7th, 2009, 05:25 PM
There are actually quite a few. You'd be surprised. (I hope it's okay that I brought this old thread up!)

Sophia is the Gnostic Goddess of Wisdom and Mother of God.

Shekinah is the Mother Goddess and wife of YHWH.

Mary is the Mother of Jesus, venerated in the Catholic, Orthodox, and many other Churches.

Magdalene is seen by many as Jesus' bride.

Ruach Hakodesh is the feminine part of God, often called the Holy Spirit.

Zoe is the daughter of Sophia mentioned in the Gnostic scriptures, the Breath of Life that God breathed into Adam.

Shabbat Hamalka is the Queen of the Sabbath.

YHWH is associated with a couple other Goddesses of Caanan, including the war Goddess Anat and the Mother Goddess Asherah.

Granted, if you follow an orthodox path in Christianity, there is only one God, revealed in three persons.

Cunae
November 7th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Father, Christ, and Holy Spirit One x One x One = One

Lunacie
November 7th, 2009, 07:52 PM
One other question, i know you probably believe different things but do you believe that gods are individual beings like Zeus is seperate to the Christian God or is it more wiccan-like - 'all gods are one god'.

Off topic response but ... I know I've told you this before David, but not all Wiccans hold that concept "all gods are one god." Some follow Polytheism, where they believe in a great multitude of gods and may honor one or more of them in private practice while honoring the traditional pair when working in a Wiccan ritual. Some are indeed Pantheist, believing that everything is part of the Divine. Some are Panentheist, believing that god is part of everything and yet is separate and individual. Some are even Animist, who believe that everything has a soul or spirit and is therefore part of the divine. Please don't assume that all Wiccans believe in one Uber God and one Uber Goddess.

David19
November 7th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Very old post, just a few months from when I first joined MW!....


There are actually quite a few. You'd be surprised. (I hope it's okay that I brought this old thread up!)

Sophia is the Gnostic Goddess of Wisdom and Mother of God.

Shekinah is the Mother Goddess and wife of YHWH.

Mary is the Mother of Jesus, venerated in the Catholic, Orthodox, and many other Churches.

Magdalene is seen by many as Jesus' bride.

Ruach Hakodesh is the feminine part of God, often called the Holy Spirit.

Zoe is the daughter of Sophia mentioned in the Gnostic scriptures, the Breath of Life that God breathed into Adam.

Shabbat Hamalka is the Queen of the Sabbath.

YHWH is associated with a couple other Goddesses of Caanan, including the war Goddess Anat and the Mother Goddess Asherah.

Granted, if you follow an orthodox path in Christianity, there is only one God, revealed in three persons.

Thanks for the list, I've heard of them before actually :).


Off topic response but ... I know I've told you this before David, but not all Wiccans hold that concept "all gods are one god." Some follow Polytheism, where they believe in a great multitude of gods and may honor one or more of them in private practice while honoring the traditional pair when working in a Wiccan ritual. Some are indeed Pantheist, believing that everything is part of the Divine. Some are Panentheist, believing that god is part of everything and yet is separate and individual. Some are even Animist, who believe that everything has a soul or spirit and is therefore part of the divine. Please don't assume that all Wiccans believe in one Uber God and one Uber Goddess.

I do know that, but, I did start this in 2005, so, please don't hold it against me :).

Lunacie
November 7th, 2009, 09:50 PM
http://www.paganforum.com/Smileys/custom/sorry1.gif (javascript:void(0);) I didn't notice the date stamp. GAH, I hate when really old threads get bumped.

Son of Goddess
November 7th, 2009, 10:21 PM
In Roman Catholicism, Mary is given three titles in this slightly altered version of the initial Rosary Prayers. Forgot the source, but its from an actual Catholic liturgical text I found online sometime ago.

Crucifix:
Apostles' Creed...
1st bead:
I salute thee, Daughter of God the Father: obtain for us the gift of a firm faith. Hail Mary…
2nd bead:
I salute thee, Mother of God the Son: obtain for us the gift of constant hope. Hail Mary…
3rd bead:
I salute thee, Spouse of God the Holy Ghost: obtain for us the gift of an ardent charity. Hail Mary…

I always thought it was an interesting triple-like aspect for the Virgin, so I held onto it in a handy dandy word pad doc, lol.

Gaudior
November 8th, 2009, 08:38 AM
http://www.paganforum.com/Smileys/custom/sorry1.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);) I didn't notice the date stamp. GAH, I hate when really old threads get bumped.


Sorry *blushes*

Lunacie
November 8th, 2009, 09:07 AM
Sorry *blushes*

A lot of people don't check the date on threads, especially if they get caught up in some point in the discussion. Probably not really a biggie, but it can cause some confusion. Maybe if it's been more than, say, 12 months since the last post in the thread, it's better to start a new thread on the same subject? Maybe with a link back to the thread that sparked your interest in the topic?

Sage Rainsong
November 8th, 2009, 09:08 AM
I tend to think of the saints as powerful spirits of the dead, rather than demi-gods (with the exception of the arch angel saints and possibly the co opted Pagan deities) .This is because to my understanding, a demi-god is a being with one human parent and one divine parent. The saints are (supposedly) people who have either been martyred, and/or have has some kind of unique and miraculous connection to God in life and in death. Plus they are not supposed to be divine beings in their own right; they are merely intercessors. However, there is theology and there is what people actually do. The saints are often treated like they are demi-gods in practice, especially Mary. There are many Catholics that I know that seem to be more like Mary worshipers rather than Christians, not that I personally have a problem with that of course being polytheistic :smile:.

Rosetta Morrigan
November 8th, 2009, 02:42 PM
Personally, I believe there is one Ultimate Being and that all gods and goddesses are this Ultimate Being. But the Ultimate appears to every one wearing a different "mask". Like to me, it appears as the Christian Trinity: Mother/Father God.dess, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. But behind the mask, it's really one being. I believe all gods and goddesses are one being. But I relate to that being through the Christian title of God.

Cloaked Raven
November 8th, 2009, 04:09 PM
A lot of people don't check the date on threads, especially if they get caught up in some point in the discussion. Probably not really a biggie, but it can cause some confusion. Maybe if it's been more than, say, 12 months since the last post in the thread, it's better to start a new thread on the same subject? Maybe with a link back to the thread that sparked your interest in the topic?
That's a good idea, Lunacie!! :thumbsup:

LostSheep
November 8th, 2009, 05:06 PM
Quite an interesting topic, this, however old it may be. there's a few things I hadn't heard of before.

David19
November 8th, 2009, 05:37 PM
http://www.paganforum.com/Smileys/custom/sorry1.gif (javascript:void(0);) I didn't notice the date stamp. GAH, I hate when really old threads get bumped.

No worries, and, besides, like I said to you on your page, I owe you thanks for correcting my assumption that all Wiccans believed all Gods are one God :).


In Roman Catholicism, Mary is given three titles in this slightly altered version of the initial Rosary Prayers. Forgot the source, but its from an actual Catholic liturgical text I found online sometime ago.

Crucifix:
Apostles' Creed...
1st bead:
I salute thee, Daughter of God the Father: obtain for us the gift of a firm faith. Hail Mary…
2nd bead:
I salute thee, Mother of God the Son: obtain for us the gift of constant hope. Hail Mary…
3rd bead:
I salute thee, Spouse of God the Holy Ghost: obtain for us the gift of an ardent charity. Hail Mary…

I always thought it was an interesting triple-like aspect for the Virgin, so I held onto it in a handy dandy word pad doc, lol.

Interesting, thanks for posting it, I didn't know about those epiphets, well, I know she was called "The Mother of God", but, not the others.

Thanks for posting :).


I tend to think of the saints as powerful spirits of the dead, rather than demi-gods (with the exception of the arch angel saints and possibly the co opted Pagan deities) .This is because to my understanding, a demi-god is a being with one human parent and one divine parent. The saints are (supposedly) people who have either been martyred, and/or have has some kind of unique and miraculous connection to God in life and in death. Plus they are not supposed to be divine beings in their own right; they are merely intercessors. However, there is theology and there is what people actually do. The saints are often treated like they are demi-gods in practice, especially Mary. There are many Catholics that I know that seem to be more like Mary worshipers rather than Christians, not that I personally have a problem with that of course being polytheistic :smile:.

I see the Saints as somewhat like the Heroes in ancient Greece (and, maybe, the deified Roman Emperors?), where they were exceptional individuals, who have been elevated to some kind of level of divinity, maybe not demi-Gods, but, close to it.

Personally, I find Catholic beliefs quite interesting, especially as it's practiced in Latin American countries, and, the blending you get of Catholic and traditional beliefs in Italian folklore.


Quite an interesting topic, this, however old it may be. there's a few things I hadn't heard of before.

Glad you liked it, like I told Lunacie, it's interesting to see such an old post of mine, it makes me think of how I've changed in my beliefs (from Wiccan-ish, to seeker, to Hellenic Pagan, to Sumerian recon, back to Seeker again).

Lunacie
November 8th, 2009, 06:47 PM
No worries, and, besides, like I said to you on your page, I owe you thanks for correcting my assumption that all Wiccans believed all Gods are one God :).



Interesting, thanks for posting it, I didn't know about those epiphets, well, I know she was called "The Mother of God", but, not the others.

Thanks for posting :).



I see the Saints as somewhat like the Heroes in ancient Greece (and, maybe, the deified Roman Emperors?), where they were exceptional individuals, who have been elevated to some kind of level of divinity, maybe not demi-Gods, but, close to it.

Personally, I find Catholic beliefs quite interesting, especially as it's practiced in Latin American countries, and, the blending you get of Catholic and traditional beliefs in Italian folklore.



Glad you liked it, like I told Lunacie, it's interesting to see such an old post of mine, it makes me think of how I've changed in my beliefs (from Wiccan-ish, to seeker, to Hellenic Pagan, to Sumerian recon, back to Seeker again).

It's interesting how at that time you didn't take it for granted that all Christians saw God in the same way, but assumed that all Wiccans did. Or maybe that just seems odd to me because I tend to question everything.

zionwood
November 8th, 2009, 09:20 PM
personally, i believe in one God (Whom i don't believe has one particular gender, so sometimes called Goddess by me) in three Persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, or perhaps Mother, Daughter, and Holy Spirit, or perhaps Father, Son, and Mother...or maybe even Father, Son, and Daughter...i do recall, even before getting into spiritual feminism, coming up with some allegory of the Trinity in which the Holy Spirit was Jesus' Sister. But if you get into the family metaphor, Father, Son, and Mother makes more sense...biologically speaking, every child has to have a father and mother. (But of course, not all families are entirely biological.)

faye_cat
November 8th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe the Holy Spirit is feminine.

I'm just now starting to work with the Saints, so I can't quite give you a clear answer yet. However, I like how someone said it, that the saints were like ancient Greek warriors, powerful intercessors but not actually divine.

David19
November 9th, 2009, 09:02 PM
It's interesting how at that time you didn't take it for granted that all Christians saw God in the same way, but assumed that all Wiccans did. Or maybe that just seems odd to me because I tend to question everything.

I think it's more 'cause, when I was first starting, a lot of the books made it seem like one of the core statements of Wicca was all Gods were one God, all Goddesses were one Goddess. I'd say I did believe Christians saw their God the same way (being that I didn't know much about Christianity, having not been brought up in it). The reason I asked about Christian deities was more 'cause, I was on a Pagan forum, I wanted to see what deities people could see in the Christian pantheon, or, something like that, it was 4 years ago, so, my memory is very fuzzy (I wouldn't be able to tell you the reason why I started a thread a year ago, let alone 4 years ago!).

Lunacie
November 10th, 2009, 09:26 AM
I think it's more 'cause, when I was first starting, a lot of the books made it seem like one of the core statements of Wicca was all Gods were one God, all Goddesses were one Goddess. I'd say I did believe Christians saw their God the same way (being that I didn't know much about Christianity, having not been brought up in it). The reason I asked about Christian deities was more 'cause, I was on a Pagan forum, I wanted to see what deities people could see in the Christian pantheon, or, something like that, it was 4 years ago, so, my memory is very fuzzy (I wouldn't be able to tell you the reason why I started a thread a year ago, let alone 4 years ago!).

Not all the books about Wicca give that impression, not that I've read that many of them myself - but maybe I just had someone to point me towards the books with better information.

I was raised in a Christian environment, attended an evangelical church until I was nearly 40 years old. In that kind of church you're taught only one way of seeing the divine - God (the only god), his son Jesus (who was also god - confused yet?), and the Holy Ghost (a ghost of a deceased god?). Not a feminine aspect in sight. Mary was just the mother of someone special.

Some felt it was all right for women to teach men - as Sunday School teachers, not as preachers - but others thought women should not teach men, only other women or children. My mother taught a SS class for nearly 30 years, men and women, and was highly thought of.

Gaudior
November 10th, 2009, 10:28 AM
and the Holy Ghost (a ghost of a deceased god?).


Well, not quite. It is God's Spirit, actually. The Jewish people called it Ruach Hakodesh, while Christians call it the Holy Spirit (or the Holy Ghost, as you said). Many see it as the "feminine" part of God, or His Shekinah (that is pretty much how I see it as well).

Jesus would be an "Avatar" of Yahweh, much like Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu. It's the same Deity, just in a different form.

Does that make any sense?

Lunacie
November 10th, 2009, 10:36 AM
Well, not quite. It is God's Spirit, actually. The Jewish people called it Ruach Hakodesh, while Christians call it the Holy Spirit (or the Holy Ghost, as you said). Many see it as the "feminine" part of God, or His Shekinah (that is pretty much how I see it as well).

Jesus would be an "Avatar" of Yahweh, much like Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu. It's the same Deity, just in a different form.

Does that make any sense?

I was just trying to share what the church I used to attend taught, and how confusing it could be.

Gaudior
November 10th, 2009, 10:39 AM
I see. I apologize if I came off as a know it all, it was not my intention.

Lunacie
November 10th, 2009, 10:45 AM
I see. I apologize if I came off as a know it all, it was not my intention.

I was making a little joke, which didn't come off quite right apparently, about how I was taught to call it the Holy Ghost rather than the Holy Spirit, which seems a better description. Trouble is, so many churches teach a very narrow definition of the religion. I learned a lot more about what Christianity is (or can be) after I left the church.

Lahmi
November 14th, 2009, 12:28 AM
Father, Christ, and Holy Spirit One x One x One = One
:thumbsup: