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Purrcatnip
November 21st, 2005, 12:41 PM
Just out of curiousity..do you support people who breed cats or dogs for a living? Cause I dont. I volunteer at a local humane society, and its amazing how many dogs/cats we put down each week. Its ABSOLUTELY horrid. I dont think there is any need for people to breed cats or dogs, especially cats. Accidental pregancies, I can understand..the first time it happens. However, I dont agree with people purposely breeding there animals. As in forcing them to mate. And I despise people who dont spay or neuter there animals.. (which leads to a whole another debate.. I know..lol) Simple put though, its just like with hunting. If the animal doesnt have the space to live in, then its going to die a horrible death (starvation, etc). Its a quantity verse quality factor, and lets face it..there is no way a domesticated animal can survive in the wild, and live a quality life. Not with our human interference.

Do you support it? Or are you against it?

Darklord_Kodiak
November 21st, 2005, 12:57 PM
Well heres the deal with my opinion. I said I support it. I know I will probably get alot of flack for this because I am in the minority here when it comes to hunting. To breed an animal for a specific pourpose such as hunting, home protection, police work, and so on. An animal without the instinct or the blood lines rarely works. I dont know the specifics but from what I see the special breed animals usually dont end up in the shelters. If someone is going to drop that kind of cash for an animal usually they are ready for the commitment. Most of what I have seen end up in the shelters are mutts or accidental breeding. As for spaying and neutering well first of all an animal loses drive when you do that, and usually doesnt perform well afterwards. Not only that I wouldnt want someone doing that to me. In all the years of having animal I have not once had an accidental pregnancy because my animals are trained and never get that chance. Not only that if your ever going to show or enter one in a competition most of the time this is an automatic disqualification because the animal is not full intact. Dont get me wrong I love my animals and they are my best friends as well as pouprosfull.

Deranged Hermit
November 21st, 2005, 03:59 PM
No. I agree with everything you said in your post, Purrcatnip.

Just a couple of comments on darklord_kodiak's post. Purebreds do indeed end up in shelters. There are even people and organizations that do purebred-only rescue work.
Personally, I don't approve of shows and competitions for cats and dogs. They're strictly for the owners, not the animals.

Meadhbh
November 21st, 2005, 04:10 PM
I'm okay with it. Like its been said there are certain breeds bred to do certain things and to them well. Humans have been breeding animals ever since we decided to domisticate them. Even though a lot of the time a pure bred animal has become little more than a status symbol, the advatages that some breds have when it comes to being serve dogs is worth the risk we take that they'll end up on the street some day.

Catiana
November 21st, 2005, 05:00 PM
I'm okay with it. Like its been said there are certain breeds bred to do certain things and to them well. Humans have been breeding animals ever since we decided to domisticate them. Even though a lot of the time a pure bred animal has become little more than a status symbol, the advatages that some breds have when it comes to being serve dogs is worth the risk we take that they'll end up on the street some day.



I agree.

PaintedHorses
November 21st, 2005, 07:03 PM
I chose other, because I think it depends on the situation.

I think cats are way overpopulated and shouldn't be bred at all. There are so many in our shelters being put to sleep every day because there are not enough loving homes for them. It kills me to go into the animal shelter and see temporary cages full of cats lined up along the walls and floor because there isn't enough room for them in the regular cages.

I do not support dog breeders who breed just to try and make money. I don't support breeders who breed just because they have purebred dogs, even if they are registered. I think the really good breeders, who have excellent dogs and are trying to perfect the breed by eliminating breed defects and improving dogs' tempraments probably aren't doing it for the money anyway (for the most part - I know that's not always true).

I know some breeders around here who are excellent. But, I also know of a few that I don't approve of at all. For instance, there is a lady here who breeds several varieties of toy dogs. She has a beautiful set up for her dogs that is clean, and her dogs are really spoiled. They are well-fed with only the best food, they get excellent health care, and they even have TV sets in their kennel so the dogs can watch TV during the day. However, even though her dogs are purebred and registered, she only sells them as 'pet quality'. She knows her dogs don't meet the breed standards, yet she breeds like crazy and sells like crazy. I don't care how great her place is, if she knows her dogs aren't good, why is she breeding at all? To make money, and that's it. I do not support people like that.

SilverMaiden
November 21st, 2005, 07:48 PM
I support breeding from reputable breeders. Case in point.

I got Kyri from a reputable breeder that interviewed me as a potential owner as hard as I interviewed her on her dogs. Kyri's got no HD, a great temperment, very healthy.

Nanuk is my rescue. Both his parents were pet shop puppies. His sire has night blindness and his dam has HD. Nanuk was born of this mating and given as a wedding present. He has HD and I have to watch incase he developes night blindness too. He was given to owners that weren't committed to keeping him and did zero research on the breed. The parents owners did no interviewing on his potential owners.

MysticWitch
November 21st, 2005, 08:45 PM
I dont think there is anything wrong with breeding. I think that most breeds are the expensive pure bred and there is always a demand for them. Those animals are usually well loved and admired by alot of people. My friend bred some jack russels and made 600$ a piece X 6! Must be nice to have that kind of money but I think that it is equally important to make sure to the best of your ability that the animals you breed go to people who know how to take care of them. Its sad for the rest cause there are so many other animals in shelters that do need homes but everyone wants these "cool" type animals like Canary dogs.
I think the best thing is to breed for professionalism like show dogs and make sure when you dont want anymore to have them fixed. Some people dont want to spend the money and have this done and they end up with more cats or dogs than they need. :rolleyes:

halfwaynowhere
November 21st, 2005, 09:02 PM
breeding to maintain the quality of the breed is acceptable. breeding for profit, and to meet the high demands of fashion accessory dogs is unnacceptable... lately i have been looking for a purebred chihuahua puppy, but this is only after thoroughly researching the breed, and i like the temperament of the chihuahua, i'm not just trying to copy Paris Hilton or anything like that. and in my search, i have come across breeders who are very shady, you know they are only after profit... responsible breeders make very little profit from selling their dogs, and do not just sell to anyone willing to fork over the cash... the dogs are vet examined, have strong pedigrees, etc, and they make sure their pups go to the best homes possible, with the promise that if there is a problem, the dog will be returned to them, not taken to the shelter... irresponsible breeders try to sell their dogs as soon as they are ready to leave mom, if not sooner, because they want the money, and don't care so much about the puppies wellbeing... these breeders should not be allowed to breed dogs... and i fully support spay/neuter, all of my dogs are fixed, and when i finally do get my chihuahua, she will be spayed well before her first heat. if only the responsible breeders bred their dogs, then every dog would be well loved, there wouldn't be a surplus of dogs in the shelters, we would have less problems... and i don't support cat breeding at all, they breed enough on their own, and most people don't care if their cat is purebred or not, personality isn't really affected by breed, siamese cats are brats, but even the mutts that have siamese markings act like that...

Choro's Mom
November 21st, 2005, 09:10 PM
I said "Other" because I support responsible, ETHICAL breeding.

One of the biggest aspects to responsible breeding is the matter of breeding to preserve and improve the breed. That means breeding dogs that are superior examples of their breed: dogs that have undergone genetic testing to try to eliminate specific health problems; dogs that have proven themselves in work and/or competition (and which come from similarly tested bloodlines); dogs that conform to the breed standard, that have correct temperament for the breed.

It means not overbreeding a bitch — OR a dog, for that matter.

It means screening homes to try to place puppies with suitable families, not just selling puppies to anyone with the money.

It means providing support to puppy purchasers, and being prepared to take a dog back if, for whatever reason, the home doesn't work out.

What is NOT responsible, by general consensus, is breeding dogs with disqualifying faults (e.g., white Dobes); crossbreeding (Anything-a-poos); dogs with known genetic problems (dysplastic dogs); dogs with obvious temperament problems (overly shy or aggressive).

"Responsibility" in dog breeding isn't an absolute any more than responsibility in parenting is an absolute. It's not a "yes she is no she isn't" situation. But there ARE key elements — actions which are clearly IRresponsible, just as there are actions which are clearly irresponsible in childcare.

There ARE "red flags" that SCREAM "irresponsible breeder."

1. Multiple breeds
Some breeders will have two or even three breeds, often "related" breeds (e.g., Collies and Shelties, Whippets and Iggies, GSDs and Corgis), but if you find someone with a breeding pair of half a dozen breeds…? NO. Serious fanciers focus on one or two breeds; they're in it to preserve and better the breed, not for the money.

2. Check the pedigree
MAJOR signal: a good breeder should have the pedigrees (not just the registration papers) to show you, and should be able to explain why THIS stud was chosen for THIS bitch. Also, the pedigree should be well-studded with titled dogs, whether conformation (Ch. in front of name) or working titles (Obedience, Agility, Schutzhund, Field, Lure-Coursing). No titles on the parents or grandparents? Find another litter. (Exception to this is working dogs: if you're buying a stockdog, you want to get a puppy from WORKING stockdogs which have proven their ability on the job.) If you don't CARE about titles, go to the shelter and adopt a dog in need of a home.

3. And what have YOU done lately…?
If the breeder is not showing/working the dogs, WHY IS S/HE BREEDING? Good breeders prove their stock through work or competition. Don't care about that? See above: go to shelter.

4. Health testing
Depending on breeds, hips should be X-rayed, eyes should be CERFED, patellas may need to be checked, hearts may need echocardiograms… There are many genetic conditions that can be screened out. Any breeder who says, "My dogs are all healthy, I don't need to screen"… NO.

5. Contracts and guarantees
Good breeders guarantee their puppies against some genetic problems (e.g., hip dysplasia) and temperament problems. If there IS a problem, they will either refund money or give a new puppy. They also require the new owner to notify them if the puppy cannot be kept, and many require the puppy be returned to them if it cannot be kept for whatever reason. If all you get is a 72 hour health guarantee…? NO.

Beyond that, a little common sense. Mom dog should not be shy or vicious. Pups should be clean and outgoing. Pups should NEVER be placed before seven weeks (barring problems, such as singleton pup that was bottle raised; normally, they should be with litter and mom till seven weeks); many breeders won't let pups go till nine weeks or later. (Being a trainer, I like getting my pup at Day 49)

So while anyone can CLAIM to be "responsible," it really is NOT that difficult to recognize those who very clearly are NOT.

And no, simply having "show quality" dogs DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER. There are many, many "show" breeders who won't hesitate to breed a dog with health problems (if those problems won't compromise its ability to be shown); some will even have problems corrected surgically (absolutely forbidden, but it happens a LOT). And far too many who breed nonstop to support their showing.

There seems to be a lack of understanding about the difference between the "backyard breeder" (BYB) and the small hobbyist. It's not about numbers, it's about doing the things that make someone a "responsible" breeder: health checks. Carefully selected pedigrees. Proving the dog's value to the breed. Being prepared to take a dog back at any point if it can't be kept for any reason. Proper socialization of puppies. (An aside: Choro's breeder "hired" a couple little girls to pet puppies, to get them used to kids and being handled a lot. If you're a nine-year-old girl and you're holding a puppy, and you put the puppy down and it cries, what do you do? What does this teach the puppy? Choro was four months old before he stopped crying to be carried around.)

As for the pros and cons of purebreds, the advantage of the purebred (if the breeding is done by serious and responsible breeders, and not just "I have a Schnicklehound, you have a Schnicklehound, let's make puppies) is PREDICTABILITY. It's in knowing even before the puppies are conceived what they're going to be like as adults: size, coat, general appearance, and a good deal about temperament and instinctive behaviors.

This is not to put down mixes. Of COURSE a mixed breed dog can be every bit as loving and loved as the most carefully bred of blue-bloods. But someone who wants something specific in a dog, whether in looks (and that's what first draws most people to a given breed, I think), size, temperament or even in something like coat (e.g., wanting a non-shedding breed) is better advised to go with a purebred if they want a puppy. And without question, someone looking for specific ABILITY — a hunting dog, guide dogs, K9s — needs to look for dogs specifically bred for those traits.

If there were no dogs waiting for homes, if every puppy that hit the ground had a good home for life waiting for it, then it might be reasonably argued that as long as the breeder was able to find good homes for the puppies, it didn't matter who bred what. But that's not the case. When several million dogs are put down in shelters across this country — roughly 75% of them mixed breeds — I find it hard to justify breeding anything but the best quality purebreds. Even if a "breeder" has "good homes" for all the puppies out of a much-loved mix, if someone is unconcerned about a dog's ancestry, size, appearance, etc., then why NOT adopt a dog from a shelter? Breeding mixes (or mediocre purebreds) just takes potential homes away from shelter dogs.

WokeUpDead
November 21st, 2005, 10:20 PM
As long as it's not like the breeding they do with showdogs where the inbreed so much that almost all of them have arthritis and tons of other problems.

aluokaloo
November 22nd, 2005, 12:22 AM
if you do it responsibly and carefully there should be nothing wrong with it.

pooja
November 22nd, 2005, 07:44 AM
Just out of curiousity..do you support people who breed cats or dogs for a living? Cause I dont. I volunteer at a local humane society, and its amazing how many dogs/cats we put down each week. Its ABSOLUTELY horrid. I dont think there is any need for people to breed cats or dogs, especially cats. Accidental pregancies, I can understand..the first time it happens. However, I dont agree with people purposely breeding there animals. As in forcing them to mate. And I despise people who dont spay or neuter there animals.. (which leads to a whole another debate.. I know..lol) Simple put though, its just like with hunting. If the animal doesnt have the space to live in, then its going to die a horrible death (starvation, etc). Its a quantity verse quality factor, and lets face it..there is no way a domesticated animal can survive in the wild, and live a quality life. Not with our human interference.

Do you support it? Or are you against it?
i support it. i LOVE my purebreed siamese cat & oriental shorthair that i got from a breeder 5 years ago. my other siamese passed away after 15 years & i'm never the type of person gutless & heartless enough to be putting my cats in some shelter to get killed. thats stupid & selfish & people who do stuff like that should be put to sleep thelselves. i am SO pro-feline that its scary. i will throw a man out of my house if he doesnt get along with my cats.

people come & go in my life but my love for my cats STAY with me. i'm a cat person till i die. i love all sorts of cats, it doesnt even have to be purebreed but i really have a special fondness for siamese, oriental, and balinese cats.

and YES... i DO go to cat shows as i think they are quite fun.

Isil Darkmoon
November 22nd, 2005, 11:09 AM
As long as it's not like the breeding they do with showdogs where the inbreed so much that almost all of them have arthritis and tons of other problems.

Honestly, a lot of these health problems are as common, or MORE common, in pet stock purebreds, and even mutts, than it is in dogs that actually make it into the ring.

Many responsible breeders who show professionally put huge amounts of time, money, and care into making sure they breed healthy, well-tempered animals, do health tests on any animal before breeding it, and placing the fixed pups that don't make the physical standards in good homes personally, and always taking them back if there's a problem. (I'll be the first to admit there are some really, really horrible show breeders out there, but many good ones too)

In terms of pure numbers of litters and pups produced, honest to gods professional show breeders actually aren't nearly as big a problem as puppymills and "backyard breeders".

I cannot COUNT the number of times I'll run across an instance where an individual has a dog that they got at a petstore, which came from a puppymill, and really doesn't look or act ANYTHING like the "breed" it's supposed to be, but they'll insist up and down "but he's VALUABLE!! He's a PUREBRED and he has PAPERS, I HAVE to breed him!!"

They have a dog out of untested, mostly unknown, murky bloodlines, and insist on breeding it to another dog of the same quality. No good breeder would let their stud or bitch mate with a dog with unknown genetics, so the person will probably end up mating their dog with the dog of this guy he knows from work, who wants the kids to see the miracle of birth, and hey, [insert whatever breed] is the trendy, media-centric breed of the moment, I can make some quick money off of the puppies too! That dog, too, is of equally questionable bloodlines, since no good show breeder will place an unaltered dog, and is at worst from a puppy mill and at best from his brother's dog's litter.

This is where the really, really horrible genetics enter the breeds--the moment an individual breeds a litter with the intent to SELL, instead of show/train for agility/train as a working dog/etc.

So my stance is that I can support breeding by consciencious, ethical breeders who breed (with or without showing) for the sole purpose of improving the overall health and temperment of the breed first, and physical characteristics only second, and are willing to be accountable for ALL of their dogs, always. (I in fact know of a Sheltie breeder who found out through the grapevine that a dog she'd placed with a family had been dumped at the pound--she traced that dog through two different states and four different shelter/pound/rescue groups, and paid out of pocket for the dog to be transported back to her. THAT is responsibility.)

Anyone who wants to breed for "the miracle of life", "to make money", "to make back my investment", "she WANTS to be a mommy!", "they're popular, I can sell them easily", "I want one just like him though!" or any other reason why people irresponsibly breed shoddy, poor quality, unhealthy purebreds *or* mutts? These are some of the people that fill our shelters and pounds the way they are, these are some of the people that make it nessecary to euthanise so many innocent animals on any given day.

They're the ones that cause my heart to break just a little bit more every time I go to volunteer, or bring home a foster.

Druchii
November 22nd, 2005, 12:27 PM
I ain't about to make anyone else breed just because I want a companion to look or be sized a certain way.

I can make money with my own two hands and not have to sell dogs or cats which in my mind are more luxuries than bovine or other farm or ranch animals would be. I fix all my animals, and have owned "pure breeds" and mutts.

Until I see less roadkill and shelters it makes no sense to make a business out of it.

Hell, I WANT a bigger house, but the one I ended up with is just fine.

The same with my dogs and cats.

dragoncrone
November 22nd, 2005, 12:37 PM
What I support: breeding certain types of dogs for their innate abilities, including superior detection qualities and strength (for example, a Newfoundland could pull you out of the water- a smaller dog could not).

I support breeding certain types of cat such as the Scottish Fold and Maine Coon - NOT Persians or any similar breed, because their noses are so flat they can't breathe properly! Neither can pugs, Pekingese or boxers for that matter...

I have friends with purebred dogs; they are careful in selection of stud/bitch animals because they want to preserve the integrity and maintain the health of their breed. I don't fault them for that.

What I HATE are the backyard puppy-mill degenerates who mistreat animals and exploit them for financial gain. May the hounds of Hecate rip them to shreds.

Anubis
November 22nd, 2005, 12:44 PM
it's people who shouldn't breed.. dang planet is over-run with them!

Druchii
November 22nd, 2005, 04:07 PM
What I HATE are the backyard puppy-mill degenerates who mistreat animals and exploit them for financial gain. May the hounds of Hecate rip them to shreds.

Amen on that.

Arinya
November 22nd, 2005, 04:27 PM
I'm completely against it. I had one cat who died because she was so horribly inbred, we bought her from a cat show without knowing what kind of things went on behind the scenes. Not a day in her life was she able to keep down a meal, poor kitty but she made it 6years before dying although her final death I think could be from depression.
My current pet...a ferret...might be inbred. He's a little...stupid. Heh.

But in anycase...I am against it because people tend to inbreed their pets and often do unintentionally. That and there are just way too many pets as it is.

Choro's Mom
November 24th, 2005, 01:19 AM
I'm completely against it. I had one cat who died because she was so horribly inbred, we bought her from a cat show without knowing what kind of things went on behind the scenes.

And how many people have gotten an animal from a shelter and had it be horribly sick?

This reflects very poor critical thinking. First, unless you saw the pedigree and could trace the degree of inbreeding, you don't know if her problems were due to "inbreeding" or just bad luck of the genetic dice, possibly resulting from a failure to test for genetic problems. Second, because SOME animals are badly bred does not mean ALL purebreds are.


But in anycase...I am against it because people tend to inbreed their pets and often do unintentionally. That and there are just way too many pets as it is.

Again, a WILD generalization, and totally missing the point. IF DONE CAREFULLY, selective breeding can REDUCE the likelihood of genetic problems through screening for them. And yes, selective breeding for type and temperament IS valuable, and not simply for vanities: the family that would be a wonderful home for a friendly Golden might be completely unsuited for a dominant Rottie. Not everyone has the physical strength to handle a large dog. I personally LOATHE heavy grooming and would be miserable owning a dog with a coat requiring it.

For those who are prepared to deal with a wide range of temperament and size, GO TO THE SHELTER. But there are good, sound reasons for selecting specific breeds. And matching the breed to the home is one of the best ways to prevent dogs winding up in shelters.

Xerenity
November 24th, 2005, 09:09 PM
Reputable Breeders of any kind will screen potential buyers. The breeder is also responsible for disclosing any birth defects in the animal aka hip dysplasia. Also both sire and dam should be available for viewings.
The Breeder has a responsiblity and ethics code that he/she has to follow. CKC and AKC have very strict rules about what breeders can and can't do.

I am owned by two Akitas, one from a breeder in Montana and one from a breeder in New York. Nikita (female) was purchased from a pet store in a local mall. She was getting to large for her crate. Harvey (Male) was a rescue that we were approved for from akita rescue of western new york. The breeder who sold Harvey wouldn't take him back when his owners asked the breeder too. The breeder told harvey's owners to destroy him. We have him now and after many years of work He is a beautiful, playful and loving dog. The main problem was that he came to us badly abused. He didn't trust humans because his last family hurt him a great deal. No bruises or scars but the mental degredation he went though showed up months later with us.
The story is just to show that breeders don't follow the rules. As the general public, you have to do the research on the breeder and/or rescue from your local pound.
When people ask about our dogs, I tell them that Akitas are not for everyone and if you are interested in getting a dog; go to the local OSPCA, Humane Society, Pound,or SPCA and rescue an animal. They will love you more and you are saving a life.

FaeFollower
November 24th, 2005, 09:25 PM
I agree with Choro's Mom 100%. My Italian greyhound is a purebred from a breeder, who was absolutely wonderful helping us prepare for a new dog. I even went to the vet with them a few times to see x-rays of the puppies. She has had all of her shots and papers from the breeder, and a good pedigree. I can't fault that breeder for anything. I do have a problem when people allow their pets to just become randomly impregnated by strays and then get this great idea to sell the puppies/kittens.

SPAY OR NEUTER YOUR PETS. I can't think of any excuse not to. Unless you are really willing to put the time, money, and energy into breeding responsibly, don't do it. And very few people are really well-equipped to do that.

purple rain
November 25th, 2005, 04:30 AM
no i dont agree with breeding animals just for the sheer hell of it, or people that let thier cats dogs run around the neighbourhood un neutered
there are enough animals in the world that have no homes and are unwanted
cats are especially dodgy with cases of cat flu, distemper etc that are so easily transmitted to healthy animals causing suffering and in most cases death

bbnflpn
November 25th, 2005, 08:48 AM
i support what i like to call controlled breeding. i do not support breeding for mills, or for exploitation (fighting, ect)

my family use to breed cats, hymilans. we did one litter a year. that was it. and when we ended breeding, we spayed all of our animals. the vet had 14 cats to fix. he shut down his office for one day just to get it done. and we kept or gave away the kittens we had left. the last litter we had was an "oopsie" litter, miss man'ing decided to go out side for some fun. they were adorable kittens though, and we found good homes for them all. as we did for all of our kittens.

bbnflpn
November 25th, 2005, 11:01 AM
i would like to add that the only animals that were NOT rescue animals in our home were the hymalaians and one of our horses. we had many so many i cant even count them, rescue animals. my parents always had a soft spot for them. some we got from shelters, some we took from people who misstreated them (one of our dogs came to us when my dad visited a freind and saw her only a few months old drunk off wisky, and he said that if he ever heard that he had another animal he would take it away from him again) we had that dog for 13 years, and she was the best dog we ever had. one horse i took from my best friend, he was half starved, our neigbors would call the aspca on us constantly, they would come just to say they had been there on the report and always said how well we were doing taking care of them. it takes all my will to not take any cats in right now only due to the fact that i live in a small apt. but if i had to take one i would in a hart beat.

person of shadow
April 2nd, 2007, 02:22 AM
I chose other.

I am all for it if it is to better the breed.
I am not for puppy mills/kitten mills, or for people who do it for the money.
I am not for people who inbreed to were they have problems.
I agree, it is horrifying how many animals are put down. But I also understand in keeping old breeds alive.

Eternal Night
April 2nd, 2007, 07:05 AM
It all depends on how they do it.
I know quit e a few who just let their cats roam free and get pregnant willy nilly!
I don't agree with that but proper pedigree breeding is different.
I have three cats all pedigrees one is a persian one a black britash shorthair and the other a black tipped britsh shorthair. I breed them twice a year and they have normally a litter of three to four kittens each.
I love them very much and even though I do charge for the kittens I make sure that the kittens are going to good homes, and to be honest if people are going to pay anything up to £175 for a kitten they are more than likely to keep it.
It would not have been something they do on a whim.
I keep in contact with quite a few of the people that have had kittens off of me and they are all extremly well looked after.
You do get quite a few breeders that make a living out of it and have several different studs and lots of queens/dams and they tend to keep them seperate and sometimes in pens which I don't agree with.
Mine are treated like family members. They get spoilt rotten and want for nothing.
It is a shame that quite a few people do it to make a fast buck.
Yes I do make money out of it but not a huge amount once you take off the cost of food, vet checks, jabs, flea treatments, worming treatment and six weeks insurance.
My cats are beautiful especially my black tipped girl and I feel with the right attitude people can breed them and it not be a bad thing.
I love having kittens around the house and so does my son. We spend hours playing with them and spoiling them it's quite upsetting when they do eventually leave!

TuathaSidhe
April 2nd, 2007, 12:34 PM
I havent reat others posts..so excuse me if I go over somthing again.

Breeding these animals is NOT the problem. Responsible breeders is NOT the problem.

Its the PEOPLE who are the problem.

Its the people who think they can make a quick buck, or the people who think that 'oh my dog is so sweet and cute and I think they have a good temper, so i'll breed them' and never turn around and do ANY research, and then whenever they cant find the pups homes...boom, they are in the shelter.

Thats the problem with overpopulated pets. Its a lack of education (usually) common sence and responsibility.

We live in a throw away society, so its 'ok' to just dump off that box of puppies that you couldnt find homes for. <rollseyes>

Any dog, or cat can wind up in a shelter or rescue. Even a responsible breeders...but, you know what that responsible breeder dogs? They go, and they get the dog..they pay the fees and they take the dog home, and either find a GOOD home, or will work with a rescue to place the dog in a home or a foster.

EX: A women, I knew, breeds german shepherds. She sells out of state. Sold to a women that, everything checked out, the app, the home, the experience, things went good for years..then, all of a sudden, the breeder couldnt get ahold of the lady anymore. Time goes by, and the breeder gets a call. This dog had been dropped off at the pound by said lady!

The breeder..being a RESPONSIBLE breeder..drives..14hrs..BOTH ways, bails the dog out, and brings it home.

A puppymill, backyard breeder or irresponsible breeders, probably wouldnt do that.

Good breeders know about the pet overpopulation, Good breeders help work towards fixing the problem, Good breeders work are willing to work with rescues and yes, one can be a breeder AND rescue/foster dogs.

and before people start screaming to make it tougher to breed dogs..think about this..if the person already doesnt care about whatever laws regarding dogs/cats are out there, and dont care enough about the dog/cat to take care of it..do you really think they are going to care about a new law out?

I do like how some places are going, and making the penalty for some things harsher. In places, puppymillers are getting more than just a slap on the wrist, luckly, some states have being a puppymill, or animal cruelty (depending on the case) as felonies.

It a think, were I think, GOOD breeders, GOOD rescues (there are rescues out there that just plain ol suck and are bad) and GOOD people, really all need to come together on this. Right now, everyong is just doing their own thing and going about it their own way.

So, I picked other, cause im for a responsible breeder who is working towards something with their breed to better the breed and finds good homes for these dogs and wants to be there through their lives.

Im not for people who think they can make a quick buck, or have a mixed breed or purebreed they think should be breed because 'oh they would make nice puppies' <rollseyes>

Off soapbox now.:awilly:

ETA: I just want everyone to know that my experience is with dogs. A 3 of mine are spayed/neutered. One day I will eventually be a responsible breeder in german shepherds and whenever it comes to cats...I..um, have no expericence with them, other than having them as pets and spayed/neuterd (I never knew an intact female was called a 'queen' until someone told me, lol)

Willow Rosette
April 2nd, 2007, 01:03 PM
I dont see anything wrong with breeding its self if it is safe and humane. But for me personally when there are so many animals in shelters I think we need to find homes for the ones we already have before making more. So i voted other.

wolfjan1
April 2nd, 2007, 03:00 PM
There are so many disreputable "breeders" out there. With puppy "farms," animals living in filthy cages, poorly fed, poorly bred. Not for good bloodlines, healthy bodies and workable tempraments. So, breeding anything with four legs for a living is NOT a person from whom I would buy an animal of any kind.
I rescued my pomeranians AND my two kitties. The dogs have a few healtth problems. I discussed their history with the rescuer and they both came from puppy mills.
Rescue when you can and stop the puppy mills.

halfwaynowhere
April 2nd, 2007, 03:19 PM
looking back at my first post in this thread (wow, that was a long time ago), I was talking about looking for a chihuahua puppy. Well, I got one, and I love Daphne very much. I did not purchase her from a breeder, or a pet store, but from an individual who had bought her and couldn't keep her. It doesn't count as rescue, though. She is a great dog, and I love her loads, but she's got some problems... She has asthma, and allergies. She is even allergic to grass, and gets a rash just from going outside. I don't know where she came from, the woman I was getting her from went out of town that day, so her brother handled the transaction, and I never got any information that was promised to me. It was all very shady, and I would never go through that again. I have a feeling that Daphne was smuggled from mexico, as that was very common at the time. She definitely was not bred for quality, just for size, so she could be sold at a higher price because she's tiny. Do I support breeders? no. I see so many adorable dogs in the shelter, and I wish I could take them all home. So what if they weigh more than 4 pounds? I wish that I had been open to adopting a dog outside of my predetermined standards. I wouldn't trade Daphne for the world, but my next dog will be a shelter dog.

Sun Sprite
April 2nd, 2007, 04:08 PM
I do believe in spay and neuter.

However, my concern is: Most people who have well tempered animals are more liekly to spay and neuter.

Who does that leave to breed the next generation? The more poorly tempered, more likely to bite.

Yes, millions of good pets are put to sleep every year because of lack of homes. However, as a community, people should allow well tempered animals to breed occasionally, maybe once in a lifetime and be sure they are trained, and go to good homes where they will continue to be good tempered.

What happens if good tempered are never allowed to breed? In ten years, there will not be many, if any good tempered animals left in the country. Sure, a few trainers will fight to rehab animals, but the average family would not conisder a cat or dog to be a safe addition to their home.

TuathaSidhe
April 2nd, 2007, 05:17 PM
If you really want to get down into it..a good temperment alone isnt enough to breed.

Depending on who you ask, the good breeders are going to ask and look for things, such as structure, and working ability along with a good temperment.

Standards arent the be all end all to a dog breed, however, they do set the guidelines, and getting TO far away from the guidelines of a certain breed of dog, then that defeats the purpose of having said breed of dog.

Dogs are great family pets, but most of them also have a job to do, and should be bred to be able to hold that ability for years to come. Yes, things change over time, sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst. Look at the german shepherd. Over the years the breed has changed so much and so many people are breeding for one thing or another, and not always for a well rounded GSD. Show people like the angled back, Roach back is starting to come up in some working lines...etc etc etc. There is a whole showing/working debate really that I dont want to get into, lol.

But, anyways...no, temperment alone isnt enough to make a breeding dog IMO, and most good breeders I know, also think so. Not only that..the average person..may not really know WHAT to look for in a dogs temperment.

The dog could be perfect at home, but shy timid and scared out and about. The dog could be flighty or weak nerved and not show it around certain people in certain enviorments. So unless one gets down to the nitty gritty to have their dog temp tested by a experienced breeder, most people dont bother and just 'think' their dog has a 'good temperment' when in reality, it doesnt.

One thing I have learned, whenever someone wants to breed their dog..they need to get outside opinions from experienced responsible people in their breed. They need an outside opinion, cause, lets face it..just about everyone is biased towards their own dog. (I know I am, lol)

Druchii
April 2nd, 2007, 05:37 PM
Never liked purposeful breeding.

They do it for money, looks, and prestige of breed.

Too many animals in shelters to justify designer animals.

So, in a word. No.

PandoraHealer
April 2nd, 2007, 09:31 PM
I run my own rescue- its not for dogs or cats- its for reptiles- Iguanas for instance are way too overpopulated and when they get bigger, no body wants them- we have 5 right now- I'm set up to have 8-12 and we have been full- if that tells you anything. We also have large snakes- When they get big and expensive to feed- nobody wants them. Now, am I oppose to breeding reptiles in general? absolutly not- one of my dreams in life is to visit places like Bolivia and help re-populate endangered species of lizard, snake, frog, turtle, etc... But thats different.

As far as dogs go- there are certain requirements needed in the bloodline for police dogs, seeing eye dogs, security dogs, etc... I own 2 german shepherds. One is a retired K-9 unit. The dog was retired and the officer that owned her passed away- she ended up in the GSD rescue with all her papers and everything. She's a wonderful dog, great with our kids. But that also just goes to show that just because they are bred for the special bloodline- they can still end up in the shelter/rescue/dead. The other GSD we have- we got the same day- she was actually the dog we went there to look at. We paid the adoption fee of 200$ for each. We also own a husky mix that we got from a rescue. I will never again buy a dog. If I ever get another dog, it will most likely be another GSD and it will definatly be from a rescue.

As for cats- I know there is an ad in our paper a lot for 'specialty' cats. not tigers, lions, etc. just fancy breed cats for upwards of 800 a pop. I've volunteered at our shelter and seen many of them euthanized I'm not happy about it. I don't see the point.

BB-PH

TheWomanMonster
April 2nd, 2007, 09:39 PM
I think animals should be bred to maintain genetic lines and breeds.
To promote better health of future animals.

But for money, no.

With the current number of (all kinds of) animals in shelters I think people should be very informed before attempting to become a backyard or basement breeder.
As well as before buying a new pet.

All of my pets will be spayed and neutered thank you very much.

Philosophia
April 2nd, 2007, 10:01 PM
I chose "other". I support legitimate breeders who do it for the pleasure and love of their animals, and not for money. I don't support people who allow their animals to breed will-nilly, don't respect them, or give them the proper attention they need. I fully support spay and neuter and all the cats and dogs we have (except for our puppy, Susie) is done. They haven't lost their drive or spark and are completely trained (again, except for Susie). We take in many rescued and dumped animals, and each are thoroughly loved and spoiled. :)

My mother breeds rabbits and guinea pigs but she is a reputable breeder even though she can't show (way too far to travel). The money she earns doesn't cover most of the vet bills, food, shelter, etc.. She regularly donates her services and she takes in abandoned rabbits and guinea pigs.

HetHert
April 3rd, 2007, 12:23 AM
Anything that can be used with noble intentions or for good can also be corrupted. An unfortunate fact of life.

There is nothing wrong with the practice of selective breeding. It serves a great purpose for keeping certain attributes that are desired for different reasons in dogs and cats. Unfortunately not everyone breeds for the best of intentions.

If I want a bloodhound for search and rescue...I certainly want to ensure that I am getting a dog that comes from a pedigree with this proven skill.

If I have a herd of sheep, I want an Australian Shepard that comes from a line of proven herders. Ones that are smart, and quick to hone the skills that they have been bred for.

Cats may be a different can of worms...hehehe I'm trying to think of a quality in a cat that I would want bred for a specific purpose...unfortunately I'm drawing a blank. I like the scottish folds for their folded ears, siamese for their crossed eyes, and aloof nature, and rag dolls for their layed back nature.

I feel that anything done responsibly is fine.

Shanti
April 3rd, 2007, 01:26 PM
First off is no one bred, eventually where would anyone get a cat or dog from?
If only a few select are allowed to breed, only the rich will be able to own a dog or cat.

If breeding is kept to only preserve pedigrees, the people who prefer mixed breeds will be out of the loop.

So breeding, even mom and pop with their pair of whatevers can be good breeding. And you can have what appears to be a great professional doing really not good things in their practices.

All I care about is, give good care, know what your doing and make sure you have a home for all the kids. Just letting animals breed with no known future is just dumb, IMO. Letting animals breed and not knowing who is doing it with whom is not good practice either.

If you have a good pair of healthy critters that can have good healthy kids and you know what your going to be doing with the kids, then breed if you want to.

But if your going to put 50 dachshunds in a bunch of little cages and breed them till death for some cash flow, I think thats not the correct way to care for the dogs.
Or if your going to let your feline run about and you don't even know who she has been with, not good practice, IMO.

Shelters are not overflowing because of breeding, they are overflowing because of people wanting pets without truly knowing what they are getting into.
Heck free or high priced kittens/puppies can find good homes or bad. A potential owner can pretend to want to give the animal the best home...people can be good to critters or bad...its up to the individuals.

Controlling breeding to the point where only the rich can have a pet isn't going to solve a thing except to leave a lot of good people without ever having the chance for a pet.

Heck why not control human breeding too then since there is a population explosion and a lot of kids in foster homes, orphanages and living as state owned because no one wants them.

And hey people talk about affording a pet, that you must be able to pay for many potential probs like a lot of vet bills and such...kinda like if your lower income you shouldn't own a pet, well hey one of the biggest probs our country has is uninsured children that don't get routine medical care because their parents are lower income!
Should the lower end working joe not be allowed a cat or dog or child?

What about dear grandma in the future? She is on Social security and lives alone. She is lonely and wants a little lap dog. Nothing fancy, nothing pure.
Just a little hair ball to keep her company that she can lavish with her love. Well, she cant afford the high priced pedigrees and if everywhere ends up like in my area, she cant afford the 400-500 bucks for a mixed muttly either. Guess she is going to just have to be lonely then. Its a shame too, she had a lot of love to give some little scruff ball.
Oh and she cant get a pup at the shelter because with all the breeding regulating that people pushed, the shelters are bare.

Heck, if you know someone thats breeding and breaking any laws like cruelty laws or licensing laws, report them and get them out of business. You know a good breeder, spread the word! We can help cut down on bad practices if we report them and get them out of business.
Same with pet owners, report them if they got a cat or dog and don't care for it and its suffering. Get them out of the adoption circuit.

Shelters are full of abused and neglected animals and I bet most of the people that dump the critter there... replaced it, because no one will try to stop them from repeating the same mistake. Thats not the fault of breeders, its the fault of pet 'obtainers'.

Sequoia
April 3rd, 2007, 01:31 PM
I support professional, specific-breed breeders. I do NOT support people who randomly have litters and sell the results.

Professional breeders are quite different than "backyard breeders" or "accidental breeders".

Sacreligioushippie
April 6th, 2007, 11:18 AM
I voulunteer at a cat shelter and I see no point in breeding cats. I don't even think purebred cats should exist. Purebred cats are around simply for aesthetic purposes. Though I would love to have a Maine Coon cat, I'm much happier with my 15 lb. domestic short hair from the shelter.
I don't support breeding dogs for profit either. There are far too many animals in shelters that need loving homes.
I do, however, support very controled, responsible breeding of service/work dogs, (ie police dogs, assistance dogs, rescue dogs).