A witch who can't hex, can't heal

[Adrenaline Junkie]

"A witch who can't hex, can't heal."

Do you believe or agree w/ this statement?

Opinions?

[Rick]

...now there's a can of worms just waiting to be opened...

...now where's my can opener?...

OK... magic is magic... hexing & healing are the same... only the intent is changed...

BTW... not a witch...

[Myst]

Yup, note it says "can't", not "won't".

[Twilight Garden]

Originally posted by Myst
Yup, note it says "can't", not "won't". Yeah... good point. I agree with the statement.

[white_draco]

I agree.

I think the statement is saying that if somebody doesn't have any knowledge on the darker aspects of Magick and knowledge of what to do to protect one's self then one can't heal. Protection to Heal.

I hope that made sense;)


- White Draco -

[Myst]

I also think if you don't think about and consider working with darker magick then you don't understand it, and won't understand the true significance of it. You can't understand the true power of the light without being in the shadows once in awhile. :)

[Haedis]

I agree also. There are some people I chat with who keep asking me really irritating things like "can you make this guy like me?" and "could you put a curse on me?" Well, yeah i probably could, but that doesnt mean I would. If I can make positive magick work i can make negative magick work...i just wouldnt waste my time.

[Rick]

Please allow me to reiterate that there simply is no negative or positive, or black & white, etc magic... magic is magic... it's all in your perspective of application... if someone is binding me, I'll probably perceive that as negative, but the binder may think they're doing a positive working (for my own good, etc)...

[Haedis]

I completely understand, Rick. I'm just far too lazy to type "doing magick to cause specific harm to an individual". I'll try to be a tad less lazy in the future. :D

[Rick]

Hehehe... :T

[Lavender]

Originally posted by Rick
Please allow me to reiterate that there simply is no negative or positive, or black & white, etc magic... magic is magic... it's all in your perspective of application... if someone is binding me, I'll probably perceive that as negative, but the binder may think they're doing a positive working (for my own good, etc)...

I agree with Rick here. It's all a matter of perception. As to the original post, I feel that's true. In any magical workings, you have to know all sides...positive & negative results. If you don't know what harm you can cause, how can you know if what you're doing is going to heal?

A good example is using herbs. Foxglove (Digitalis) is used as heart medication. The upside is that it can help someone with a heart problem. The down side is that the wrong amount can kill you. If an herbalist doesn't know what are the repercusions, you can end up dead.

[Gypsy Raven]

Wild Child ~ You are so right, that's a great way to explain this point!
However, I know some who act on anger too quickly, and I think its important to control those very human emotions including ego, which can knock you out of balance and block up your chakra's!

Control of strong emotions is hard but it keeps you in balance, and when you're in balance you have harmony in your life!
In some cases the person you're firing it at just ain't worth the bad karma anyway!

Love, Peace and Light!

Raven.

[Lavender]

Yes, I've been in situations where I'm so mad, the energy is surging through me. You feel like you could just hurl lightening bolts! :D I never lash out in anger & I hope I never will.

It's not that I can't hex but I won't. Small distinction but a very important one. But having said that, I haven't been in a situtaion where my son is mortally threatened. That would be too tough for me to say at this point.

[LilydePlume]

it is like asking .. if someone can drive forward, can they drive backward? the answer is maybe yes and maybe no, so what is the point?
Energy use doesnt work in a linear fashion,imo, and linear thinking doesnt expand anyones consiousness,also mo.
BB
LP

[Lavender]

I think AJ was asking for people's opinions, which we including yourself, have given. I find it interesting to hear what others think of certain things. There were a couple of good points brought up here so far. Excellent analogy about the driving. You're right in that magic doesn't work in linear. That's why all things must be considered before doing any kind of workings. I think to make it easier to discuss this, we were looking at two extreme points.

[Myst]

What's the point of asking anything here? Uhm getting opinions and ideas. :rotfl:

[Lavender]

Heh! And I thought it was to start fights! :D

[Myst]

d'oh!

[Rick]

...And to encourage 'thinking outside the box'...

...umm... would someone please let me outta this box???

[MistOfTheSea86]

Agree with Myst on this one. You may have to experience the dark to fully understand the light and vice versa.

YOu need to have been hurt to know the healing progress of depression. You need to have been happy to know the downward cycle of sadness. Ok I am confusing myself now!:D

[magicbabs]

Well, I don't think it matters one way or the other if someone do both hexing or healing. There are specialists in every field. Most of my friends are healers and are not able or aware of how to hex someone.

I happen to be able to do both, but I notice if I hex too much - I get grumpy and mean. I need to stay on the healing side, but if I hex too much - I could care less about healing someone.

It is a vicious circle. I think balance is the best tool.... a little healing a little hex once in a while....

[magicbabs]

My teachers have always said to me that you must have your "dark night of the soul" and walk through pain in order to heal....

Just thought I would share that with you.

Hey - don't you just hate that phrase "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"????

Man - I should be able to lift a building if that is the case....

[LilydePlume]

" What's the point of asking anything here? Uhm getting opinions and
ideas. "
Maybe it is to give people the opportunity to attempt to make fun of people for expressing said opinions ?? I thought the ONE rule here was respect ???
Perhaps I can clarify, in that I think asking yes or no, black or white , questions are pointless and encourage linear, and all or nothing thinking, in some people.
The use of energy defined as healing or hexing is limited , and to ask either or doesnt really expand on that idea.
I think a better question would be; is hexing
healing? in another context? How are they related and when and how do they overlap?
But then why would you hex someone , what would be your motive and how would you deal with the after effects. How would you even know what the after effects are? of either healing or hexing?
BB
LP

[Myst]

If you think someone has been disrespectful click "report this post to a moderator".

Personally I thought it was a great question, and definitely encouraged everyone to share their own opinion.

[Lavender]

Originally posted by LilydePlume
" What's the point of asking anything here? Uhm getting opinions and
ideas. "
Maybe it is to give people the opportunity to attempt to make fun of people for expressing said opinions ?? I thought the ONE rule here was respect ???


Umm...Lil, you were the one who thought AJ's question was pointless. He was asking what we thought about his statement: A Witch who can't hex, can't heal. Whatever your motives are for hexing or healing, I don't believe it can be done without having an understanding of both sides.

[lucidfire]

sounds like a Christian statement more than a Witchy statement

[Lavender]

Are you talking about the original statement? Interesting thought. Can you expand on it a bit more?

[Rick]

Originally posted by lucidfire
sounds like a Christian statement more than a Witchy statement

"Suffer not a witch to live"... now that sounds like a christian statement... :T

[Myst]

Originally posted by Rick


"Suffer not a witch to live"... now that sounds like a christian statement...

Actually, if we want to get picky, that sounds like a statement King James would say, or possibly some religious fundies who may be Christian.

[Joy]

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here.
Energy is energy and goes where you direct your attention whether you intend to heal or hex. But why hex when you can heal something and not have to deal that aspect again in a person? The person who gets the effects of the energy besides the one being sent to is the sender. If you consider that all the experiences we have around us is a clue to look inside us for the reason we have drawn this experience to us to begin with, then again, why hex when you can heal?
Did that make sense??? Communication isn't my strong suit. lol
Love & Blessings

[flar7]

from my VAST expertise. I know, personally,(heh heh) 2 witches
maybe 3, just depends. And the one I am thinking of cant hex,
doesnt know how, but is a great healer... gets rid of cancers and
such. She is my ex-2nd? cousin by marriage. hence the ex part.

She said she never studied nor had the inclination to study hexes
or bad spells as she put it. I have thought of asking for her
healing but am not sure I want it.(chicken)

The other is a friend, and I am pretty dang sure she can do both.
I really like her and all but her place is spooky, not her, just the
residents you cant see that move crap.(eek?)

So, I would disagree with the opening statement. If you cant
Hex, you can still heal. Was kinda a no brainer for me. But
it is still just my Opinion, and you know what they say about
opinions...LOL

P.S. The vast expertise part was meant to be taken lightly.LOL

[Myst]

Originally posted by Joy
The person who gets the effects of the energy besides the one being sent to is the sender.

It's not that cut and dry, and no the sender does not necessarily feel the same effects, depending on how they do the spellworking or their intent or reason for it. For instance, if I bind someone who attacked my sister I'm not going to get bound and probably not going to get negative energy from it. Mind you if I hex someone because I heard they called me a name behind my back the karma could be pretty nasty :) I think it really depends on the situation, one can't blanket everything under "threefold law" or other similar law (not that you did, but I'm commenting on that).

[Gypsy Raven]

Hope this is not a daft question (being a newby and all) but I have heard people talk of 'eye biting' could some one explain wot that is please?
If it means flashing somone a filthy look in anger and throwing something bad at them, then does that mean that every human being has the ability to do that pagan or not?

Blessings Gypsy Raven.

[Myst]

Hm, never heard of that one before.

Reminds me of "the evil eye" though. Basically when someone says something nasty about you or gives you a nasty look thinking nasty things, it can mean they're sending negative energy your way even unconsciously. One gypsy way I've read to stop that is to make a fist, but keep your pointer and baby finger pointed, like horns on a bull, and point them at the person to direct the energy back.

I think everyone, Pagan or not, can send nasty energy just by thinking nasty thoughts or stuff. The difference is, do they know to focus that energy or properly form an intent? It's not something you learn in school, so not a lot of nonPagans do, unless they're *really* emotionally charged, whereas some Pagans know how to do exercises and practice to form that intent and focus carefully for the strongest results.

[Rick]

Originally posted by flar7
from my VAST expertise. I know, personally,(heh heh) 2 witches
maybe 3, just depends. And the one I am thinking of cant hex,
doesnt know how, but is a great healer... gets rid of cancers and
such. She is my ex-2nd? cousin by marriage. hence the ex part.

She said she never studied nor had the inclination to study hexes
or bad spells as she put it. I have thought of asking for her
healing but am not sure I want it.(chicken)

The other is a friend, and I am pretty dang sure she can do both.
I really like her and all but her place is spooky, not her, just the
residents you cant see that move crap.(eek?)

So, I would disagree with the opening statement. If you cant
Hex, you can still heal. Was kinda a no brainer for me. But
it is still just my Opinion, and you know what they say about
opinions...LOL

P.S. The vast expertise part was meant to be taken lightly.LOL

OK... pickin' nits here... sounds to me like won't, or doesn't know how, not can't... If your twice-removed cousin's once-removed wife can heal cancer (& I believe you, Bro), I wouldn't wanna be the one to make her really PO'd... she might suddenly learn how to be 'less than positive'... :D

[Rick]

Don't know about 'eye biting' (although it sounds like giving a dirty look...), but I been called 'eye candy"...

:rotfl:

...NOT!!!!

[LilydePlume]

by saying/ asking that the question was pointless, I was expressing my opinion, and adding to the discussion by expanding the question .
I didnt laugh at the question , or the questioner , or engage in some insiders humor either ;or attempt to ridicule the person .That is disprespect, but then again , one has to take the behaviors and responses of people into consideration , regardless of age or maturity. The behavior speaks for itself .
It is quite common, and pertinent to respond to a question by questioning the validity of the question itself . If this were in a live group setting, the laughter and ridicule and side remarks would be self evident , as to their value to the discussion, and the lack of respect evident.
BB
LP

[Gypsy Raven]

Please don't be offended by any of the comments made, I have not been a member of MW for very long, and I felt a little out of my depth at first coz I am a complete newby to all of this! But you know what? these are REALLY great people who go out of their way to help you and answer questions for you, there really is no nasty people in here we are a community and all are welcome!

Have you ever heard of the Hyocka (sp?). Part of the Native American society.....the Hyocka is a kind of contrary or clown, who does things backwards like wash in the dirt and dry off in the water. He could also be funny pretending to drown in a puddle and riding his horse backwards. A kind of trickster I suppose!
OK, I'm waffling again. The Hyocka also had the ability to pick up on people's faults and weakness' and would litterally take the
p!$$ out of them! (I'm NOT saying anyone has done that to you!) Imagine the Cherokee nation, they had 44 cheifs and a huge huge empire! The Native peoples recognized that it is so easy for 'ego' to take over and a person feel like they have too much power! The Hyocka would bring them down to earth, strip them of facades and ego, keeping them real and grounded!( Maybe things would have been diffrent if Hitler had've had a Hyocka!)
What I am trying to say is that we all need Hyocka's and sometimes there's no harm in being a hyocka in a constructive way to help a person stay in touch with themselves! (and I don't mean riding horses backwards and stuff)!

Rainbows n' sunshine!

Gypsy Raven. X

[Myst]

Originally posted by Gypsy Raven
The Native peoples recognized that it is so easy for 'ego' to take over and a person feel like they have too much power! The Hyocka would bring them down to earth, strip them of facades and ego, keeping them real and grounded!( Maybe things would have been diffrent if Hitler had've had a Hyocka!)
What I am trying to say is that we all need Hyocka's and sometimes there's no harm in being a hyocka in a constructive way to help a person stay in touch with themselves! (and I don't mean riding horses backwards and stuff)!

Sweetie, you just put it 100x better then I could.

Also, donno if you know, but the only rule here at MW is not disrespecting people's paths, or their right to their path. Ya certainly didn't do that, and I've enjoyed your posts! BB :)

[mato]

eye bitting is just what people do when they send bad energy your way, nasty looks, the eyelids suddenly close in which is much like bitting.

As for "a witch who cant hex cant heal" Magik is a tool like any other, a hammer iron a furnace and determination can produce many things, a sword to kill, or a brace to help support and heal. That doesnt mean that you must know how to create a sword to create a brace or create a brace to create a sword, although the two are simmilar knowing how to make one doesnt mean knowing how to make the other. And of course you can use the tools to harm faster than it would take to make something to heal but that is what education is for. It takes little knowledge to hex, and alot more to heal, but that doesnt mean that a young healer can hex.

[LilydePlume]

but the trickster is an entity with which I am familiar, I promise you , more than you know :>.
The trickster is neither immature nor childish, but respectful in a deep way of the inner humanity of the person being"tricked " Sometimes it takes people a while to realise the difference .And the trickster can take a joke as well as give it , but I would say that a HYOCKA is exactly what is needed at times :> , for people who feel they have power and their ego is ballooning, a good laugh at ones own expense is very cleansing thing indeed.
Not as an excuse for bad behavior, but to ensure that egos dont get carried away with themselves :>
BB
LP

[Myst]

What knowledge does it take to heal?

[Gypsy Raven]

I am not in a coven and do not have a teacher to show me the ways, but I think that maybe those who do teach have to be Hyocka sometimes.
Here's a quote from a really good book called 'Rainbow Medicine' by Wolf Moondance who is a Shamon. (Her words can relate to a pagan path to in many ways).

"In shamanism there is a great deal of individualism. It is built on individual spirituality. We as people are taught to herd and become like cattle, to follow and do as we are told. The path of walking alone as an individual is a scary thing. We are taught to hold on, to be greedy and jealous. This is a path of destruction, one that does not allow us to have our wholeness but allows the coyote to steal and trick our feelings.
The rainbow path of the wolf clan is a way that I live every day through the eyes of a wolf that walks as a human being. The wolf is the keeper of the path, the way home. In the old ways, one leaves through the south, follows the milky way and finds the way to Spirit World. I feel that this speaks of walking through the emotions.
I live my life the medicine way everyday, according to what I hear from Great Spirit. And those who choose to walk with me hear my words. Sometimes they are very sharp, for my teeth are long and they bite hard. And sometimes they are soft and gentle, as my tongue caresses the hair of each of you.
The ways of the medicine path are hard. They bring you to your own truth. Set in the ways of the light, you may often have to turn your back to the dark. This can become very painful, for it closes doors. But as a door closes you step into a new realm, one of adventure within."

Can you see what I'm trying to say? I'm not as eloquent as you lot!

Blessings
Gypsy Raven.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Gypsy Raven
Sometimes they are very sharp, for my teeth are long and they bite hard. And sometimes they are soft and gentle, as my tongue caresses the hair of each of you.

I like that part. Very very true :)

[LilydePlume]

and I have been to Manchester England as well !!!
The art museum was wonderful , and the MARKET WOW !!!!!!!!!!
I have wondered for a long time how it came to be that "newbies to this path " were to be coddled and cocooned, when the path is not easy and has many "teeth" with which to bite. I am not saying be mean or rude to people, but when people are asking question after question , they need to stop and BE ASKED a few rather than just endlessly providing lists and lists of "color correspondences " and formulas for cleansing etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseum .
Instead of ASKING what it takes to heal, and getting an answer, ask yourself what you think it would take ??
Healing HAPPENS , it is the natural order of things, if we cut ourselves there are natural mechanisms in place for healing and protection.
How do we enhance and that process and ensure that it takes place??
This is one of the reasons I had an issue with the simplistic nature of the question .
It didnt mean I thought questions shouldnt be asked , I just think that the questions asked
could be conducive to more than a yes or no answer.
BB
LP

[mato]

Originally posted by Myst
What knowledge does it take to heal?

alot more than you might think. the consiquences of your actions for example, I healed before I knew to check what the consiquences would be. I healed without permission, and that took alot of work and did more harm than good. I healed without knowledge of the body and that was just plain stupid of me. I healed halfhazardly and that cost me alot. Knowledge to truely heal the cause of the problem instead of the symptoms which is the worst mistake I have ever made in my life. Healing is so percise a thing (my way is any way) I have to know that drugs a person is on what diseases he or she has ever had what training in energy work if any they have had and general inviromental history before I will even consider working with some one to heal. Then again my method of healing is more invasive than most so I have to be more cautious.

[Myst]

I see mato. Interesting.

For me it's the same thing, just a matter of intent.

[Lavender]

Gypsy, thanks for sharing that great quote with us. Heh! I always believe that you're never too old to learn new things. It goes to show even the ones who are considered elders are not perfect...we're all human with human fallicies.

[Gypsy Raven]

Hey thanx the feedback on my quote!!! I'm relieved and right chuft that ya likes it!!!

Question: How many kindes of healing techniques are there and how can I learn?
I've done something like drawing the energies of the sun through my crown chakra and out through my hands. I did that on my mum a few times as she was crippled with arthritis, it didn't cure her coz it was well past any cure, but it did help ease it. I have always wondered if that was just the heat from my hands though?

Rainbows and light!
Gypsy Raven. X

Ps: You guys are amazing....hugs!!

[lucidfire]

What I meant by what I said is that the statement sounds like it's viewing magick as some sort of "power" that can be used for good or bad, and that it's the same energy that is used to heal as to hex.

I think it's probably a more prevalant view, so don't get me wrong. I think maybe I just disagree with the wording, and would rather say something like "a witch who can heal, can hex" which probably would be true.

I personally could never hex somebody though, simply because I would not allow myself. You see what I mean? It sounds like some Christian saying any witch who heals has to hex people too; it just sounds like a negative view of Witches to me. Then again, many people define a Witch as meaning many things. In many cases perhaps talking about a different thing alltogether

[Rick]

This is not the Political Pagan forum, this is Magick & Ritual... don't bring the bickering here... if you feel you've been disrespected, click the 'report this post' icon (as someone has, ergo prompting this note of moderation), & we'll be happy to take your complaint to the Site Administrators.

Thank you.

...And now, gentle community members, please continue to peacefully discuss "a witch who can't hex, can't heal"...

[magicbabs]

I love it that the Heyoka was brought up in this thread.

One of my teachers said that the spirits have a sense of humor. "The gods and goddesses have senses of humor, and if you take your religion too seriously ---- you have missed the WHOLE POINT. Life is a dance - don't take yourself too seriously....chill out and enjoy the dance." (John Winterhawk 1997)

Okay - defining the Lakota Heyoka-

Heyoka is a Lakota term given to the Wise Fool. Traditionally, anyone who Dreamed of The Thunder Beings (Lightning) was called to walk the path of Heyoka. A Heyoka is a walking contradiction! This is truly a path of Giving because Heyoka is a Mirror. A reflector of all things. A Heyoka may seem "crazy" at times but in actuality, the extreme behavior of Heyoka is not for his/her own sake , instead, it is to teach others about themselves. A Heyoka sacrifices his/her own Ego and reputation for the sake of the People.

Heyoka is a term which is also applied to the sacred clowns, who dance backward, wash themselves with dirt, and dry themselves with water. The sacred clowns gather their power from the thunderbird, whose eyes flash lightning and whose voice is the thunder.

If a heyoka likes you he will do things to cause mischief in your life, embarrassing you, causing accidents, etc.


There were four types of clown societies on the Plains - age-graded societies, military societies, the northern plains type, and the heyoka shamanistic societies. The behaviors of all sorts of clowns revolved around a few basic themes or attributes: burlesque, mocking the sacred, playing pranks or practical jokes, making obscene jokes or gestures, caricature of others, exhibiting gross gluttony or extreme appetite, strange acts of self-mortification or self-deprecation, and taunting of enemies or strangers.

[Garnet]

Few that I'm related to/work with/ hang with know that I pracitce wicca. Although some certainly wonder.
As for hexing the *#@!!! that piss me off at work... I find that just leaving a witchcraft book on my desk where it can be seen is often enough to make the buzzards back off & leave me alone.
If I'm asked, "Can you really put a curse on me?" I smile and ask "How do you feel?"

[Gypsy Raven]

That was a great explanation of the HEYOKA Magicbabs! Thanx for sharing that with us! :T

The Plains people called them Hyokas and the Hopi and Pueblo called them Koshari. They were respected for their great medicine, or power.
Like Coyote who appears in many myths and stories, they were both tricksters and teachers. Their function was to turn the world upside down, immitating people to show their foolishness!

Here's a great quote from Black Elk who says that only those who had a vision of the mythical 'Thunder beings' could act as a sacred 'Heyoka'

"You have noticed that the truth comes into this world with two faces. One is sad with suffering, and the other laughs; it is the same face, laughing or weeping. When people are already in despair the laughing face is better for them; and when they feel too good and are too sure of being safe, maybe the weeping face is better for them to see. And so I think this is what the Heyoka ceromony is for."

The way I see it is that those who feel to throw out hexes because someone has crossed them should maybe contact the Heyoka inside them. We all make mistakes and none of us are perfect, the Heyoka shows us that! So maybe in some cases it would be better to heal than to hex?

Gypsy Raven X!

[Myst]

Very true! Sometimes people who tick us off such that we want to hex them probably have some deep rooted problems that really need to be healed. Fears of inadequacy, for example, that make people too quick to try to make themself out to be wiser.

Someone wise said a person who repeats the same words in an effort to convince another is really convincing themself.

So maybe someone who seems angry or bitter really needs a friend or someone to understand that person needs healing and understanding, not ridicule or judgment.

Some people who feel angry and self righteous might need someone to help them feel silly and pretentious, right? Then they might realize that their problems aren't really that serious and that whether they look important or not means nothing as long as they know themselves.

At least that's what I get from it :)

[Draco]

Hi everyone,Draco here. Haven't been around much lately, but the topic is interesting. I remember starting out in my studies of witchcraft etc. and I was so confused about what different authors of books were saying. The ' if you can't hex you can't heal'
etc...I didn't know which way to turn! But over the years I have decided that it all comes down to the individual, me. I know I can heal, so I know I can hex. I also read something a while ago about balance and harmony. The person in question stated that we shouldn't expect to be in harmony all the time. That our lives are a constant cycle of positive-negative energy. You can't experience or appreciate one wirthout the other. I believe this also applies to magick.
Draco.

[laurie]

i agree

[laurie]

a good witch must hex in order to heal

[The Mad Vitiki]

Originally posted by Rick


"Suffer not a witch to live"... now that sounds like a christian statement... :T
THhank you rik and thank you king james for changing the book form poisiners to wich. I have to go now there coming to give my my medcation and all my frends hve to go away now good buy NO NO NO NO not the soft pillow
mad vitiki
Arkham Asylem