Believe in Evil?

[Autumnsong]

Does anyone believe that there are purely Evil creatures in the world? Entities that have no other purpose than to cause pain and wreak havoc?

Recently I've been Sensing something... It'll come to me randomly, I'll be sitting with friends or watching TV or any number of every day things, and all of a sudden this feeling of 'BAD' will come over me, to the point that I think I'll go nuts. No provocation, no bad memories, no physical discomfort...

And just the other night, I had a dream about something that hasn't happened to me in ages.. A dream involving something that has literally haunted me since I was a child. And that feeling of 'BAD' was there along with it.

I've heard that Pagans don't believe that there is a distinct Evil... but what else can it be?

[heathenwolf]

There is no evil in animals except man. Man is the most dangerous creature on the face of the earth. Man is the only animal capable of analyzing the repercussions of his actions. There are a group of humans that are the most dangerous, these are the ones with no concsious or feelings. Mass murderers and sadist fall into this category. That is the worst evil on this planet.

[kal]

there has to be evil to have good it keeps
the cosmic balance of nature
_firedevilyin yang baby

[Meadhbh]

Good and evil are relative terms really. Even though something seems like this horrible thing it had to happen for a reason. We might not like it, but there has to be something that destroyes things for change and growth to happen. The problem is a lot of the time it hurts to loose the things and people we care about. There fore a lot of people fall into the painful=evil trap when that isn't so when you set back and think about it.

[Toki Wartooth]

I've wondered that, too. This reminds me of demons and whatnot...

I've mostly asked myself on the presence of such beings...Maybe I'm going to sound crazy, but sometimes, just randomly, I'll hear some voice/thought that says things I find rather obscene, and I just tell it to shut up and try to do something else. :/ I don't know what it is...Maybe it's something wonky in my subconcious, but I'd like it to go away.

[Xentor]

Of course there are pure-evil beings. All those that know the difference between good and bad and grasp the technique of creating elementals or molochs are able to spawn pure evil.

[Whitewolf]

I believe that without evil, good wouldn't exist. Just like order would be nothing without Chaos.


-Jessica [aka Whitewolf]

[Fire's Shadow]

Many people feel that there is no good and evil but only darkness and light. Others feel that there IS evil, but only that stems from man. I have nothing against this theory, personally. It is very plausable that man, and only man is the cause of the evil in this world.

However, I have wondered from time to time about the belief that pure evil can take some form. You know they say that knowledge is power. Well, you could take that and say to be unknown is to be unconquerable. If there were purely evil spirits, or manfestations of evil energy, then if we don't believe in them, they could already have a leg up against us. I know that sounds paranoid. Some say good and evil is a subjective term, and thats agreeable, but I see pure evil as being void of love or any capacity to help and coexist with others.

It is from caution that I do believe in the possibility of pure evil beings in some form, but evenhandedly we must realize that most, if not all, of the evil comes from man. I'm not saying that I believe in Satan, the Christian version of that evil, but I do think there could be a form of evil, similar to what some of you describe, out there...

That's just my 2 cents.

[Autumnsong]

I had entertained the idea of there being some 'mage-constructed' being that was put on this plane for one purpose-- causing harm to those its master demands it to.
But then, would that being actually be evil, or innocent? If it didn't know what it was doing was wrong, then would the thing be evil at all?

It's all confusing...

But in reply to Aranea, I DO know what it's like to hear and feel things like that. Sometimes they're human, but other times -- as has been happening to me a lot lately -- the feelings are completely inhuman, and totally, 100% bad.

So it makes me wonder if there's not some greedy, sadistic little person out there who can't do anything for himself, and so sends his 'minions' out to make other people as miserable with life as he must be.

Who knows...

[LadyCelt]

just as there are things like angels for good and deities for good, there are things of evil.

[Rin Daemoko]

Everyone seems to have a slightly different idea of what "good" and "evil" are. What is evil for one may be good for another, and vice versa. They can't possibly be simultaneously true in the objective world, and yet they seem to be. So what is one explanation for this?

Good and evil are created by the mind, and projected out into the phenomenal world. We tend to form ideas of what is good and what is evil, then through our opinions, perceptions, experiences, and memories, we project these ideas outwardly. We see what we want to see, more or less - whether we're conscious of the process or not.

When the shift in consciousness is made to recognize this, the distinction between the two shudders. The whole idea collapses. In the light of Awareness, there is no distinction between good and evil - it is all creations of the mind.

Your mind is all stories. - Dipa Ma

[Djiril]

I don't believe in evil with no purpose other than evil. It just doesn't make sense to me that a being like that would exist. That still leaves room for plenty of evil in the world, but it all has to have some other motivation than just being evil.

[Bix]

I guess you'd have to first define what evil is. People have different ideas on how something is evil. I dunno...evil for one person may be good for another, so I guess it just depends on your worldview?

[morningstar2651]

My views on good and evil are very much like those found in Taoism. I've also been told that my views are very similar to order, disorder, creation, and destruction as discribed in the Princapia Discordia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Discordia).

These principles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinyang#Principles) summarize my views on good/evil, creation/destruction, masculine/feminine, etc.

[BlackMagicalCat]

YES,the devil is crafty,and will make you thing wrong is right,and right is wrong.He trashes Christ at every turn,because he hates christ,becuse he was conquered by Christ at the cross.And he has one third on the former angels who have fallen to do his bidding.

These are former angels,who the bible says are locked in chains of darkness,and have no good in them.They will be cast into the lake of fire in due time.

So yes,there are demons,satan,and people who allow themselvs to be used by them.Thier handiwork scaters our world scene.And your soul is in thier sights.

Do you feel ugly?Thats because the wicked one see,s beauty in you,because he sees God in you,and hates you,even if you worship him,he still hates you.
So he lies and makes some think they are ugly,when in truth,they are beautifull.

It really bugs the devil,that we can reach out and touch God,and he can not.
He was cast out of heaven,and had his chance,and blew it.The devil likes to be worshiped as God,but he is not God.

And we just dont like each ther either.

Thats what I believe.

[David19]

I do believe in evil since i know there are some pagans who don't but when i think of pediphiles, the KKK, nazis and other bigots, i just think their evil (well i think their all idiots but some of them are more evil e.g. Hitler killing and torturing 6 million jews, millions of gypsies, gay people, etc) since i can see no good coming from them especially pediphiles and nazis and the KKK.

I think most humans have good and evil in them but there are some that have more than the other and some that are just pure evil like pediphiles and Hitler. I think Mother Theresa(sp) had more good in her, although i don't think humans can be pure good.

I don't believe Satan is pure evil, my beliefs on him are more like Diane Vera's beliefs and i don't think any of the gods are evil (which includes Yahweh since he does seem to inspire good in some people). I think there may be some unknown gods in other realms/dimensions that may be evil or at least hostile to humans if they ever revealed themselves but i think most unknown gods probably don't care about this realm/plane.

[morningstar2651]

I believe that the qualities Good and Evil describe actions and not people. While the holocaust was an evil and destructive action, can we call Hitler evil? He pulled Germany out of depression and rebuilt it from the destruction of the first world war.

As for Satan being Evil, the Jewish view of haSatan is a strong contrast to the Christian view of Satan. The Jewish view of haSatan is an angel who works to find fault with Man, and acts as a prosecuting attorney against mankind (the Book of Job) on behalf of God to test them. He is not evil, it is his duty to reveal the True Nature of a human.

[Catiana]

I don't believe in any kind of tangible evil being or force. People do good things and people do bad things of their own free will for their own personal purposes.

[Xentor]

I believe that the qualities Good and Evil describe actions and not people. While the holocaust was an evil and destructive action, can we call Hitler evil? He pulled Germany out of depression and rebuilt it from the destruction of the first world war.

As for Satan being Evil, the Jewish view of haSatan is a strong contrast to the Christian view of Satan. The Jewish view of haSatan is an angel who works to find fault with Man, and acts as a prosecuting attorney against mankind (the Book of Job) on behalf of God to test them. He is not evil, it is his duty to reveal the True Nature of a human.

There's several ways to describe the devil, all in different roles and with different purposes.

Someone else asked whether a construct created to be purely evil isn't an innocent in its own right, because it had no say over its creation nor purpose. That's like asking whether the colour red really is red, because the substance itself had no say in its perception by mankind.

It's nice to wonder about how things are in their own essence, in their own right... but the problem is that mankind can only see what mankind can see.

[morningstar2651]

Interesting thing to add about the mention of the colour red.

In another culture (I can't recall the name off the top of my head), all colours are various shades of two colours. What we know as red, yellow, and orange might all be one colour, just as light red and dark red are different shades of the same colour for us.


It's nice to wonder about how things are in their own essence, in their own right... but the problem is that mankind can only see what mankind can see.This made me randomly think of the short story Flatland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland).

[Elderbush]

I believe that everyone, including the gods, are a mixture of dark and light, with impulses to harm and help and sometimes our choices lead to unpleasant consequences for others. Some people make some unethical choices. Mix that with the power to affect many lives and you have a recipe for tragedy. That is my experience.

As for Hitler (how many posts did it take for the Hitler card to come out?) I believe that he was kind to his girlfriend and didn't he love his dogs? I do not believe that he was totally evil.

[morningstar2651]

Godwin's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

On a sidenote, I think Hitler's actions pale in comparison to the actions of Dr. Josef Mengele (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele).

[Calen]

I think everything has negative and positive in it. When someone has too much negative, they do things that people call evil. Anything that is senselessly negative is 'evil', in my opinion, although I don't consider the people who do them to be evil, just severely imbalanced. That's not to say I don't hold them responsible for their actions, but for me to call someone 'evil' would be me saying that they have been altogether negative and destructive all their lives, which I don't think is ever true.

[9-2-2]

Good and evil don't truly exist, except for in the hearts and minds of those who choose to make such concepts exist.

For some reason, there are many lesser demons wandering around my neighborhood, as well as "unseelie" fae. The demons aren't evil at all... they are what they are, and they act strictly to their own natures. They're only "evil" because we have attempted to box them into such concepts. The unseelie fae are mischevious and harbor rather anti-human attitudes, but they're not evil. Much like demons and angels, they act their natures out.

Are pedophiles and rapists evil? Only to moralists and several others. I don't think they are evil or good, but I do think they contribute nothing but trash and obstacles to humanity. They cause psychological problems, which causes humanity to lag behind in its progress on many levels. Additionally, pedophilia means different things to different people... to some, it's the rape of a very young child like a 6 year old, and to others, it's sex with someone 17 and under despite the gaps in age (such as an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old), as is based on current laws. The first example is "evil" to many, but the second example usually isn't seen as "evil", mostly to those who think a country's laws are holy and infallible or some such trash.

Damn, did I get wordy. No, I don't believe in evil. However, the enemies of the rightful chihuahua world dominators are evil, but that's just because they say so, and their word is perfect. :shhhh:

[Philosophia]

If pure evil exists, then pure good must as well. So what is pure evil and pure good?
IMHO, evil and good are subjective terms based upon a person’s perception, which in turn is based on the society they live in and how they were raised.
It’s hard to state whether I believe something inherently "evil” per se, because I can't decide what "evil" really is. It is the same with “good.” What I may perceive to be good, like my morals, may not be the same for everybody else. So can there be a “universal” goodness and evil that encompasses all beliefs and moralities? However, on the other hand, do the individuals only define this paradigm (good/evil) themselves?
Maybe when we sense “evil,” we are feeling something that is threatening, out of our control, and can’t perceive. Probably akin to animals who can sense a presence that they don’t understand and are frightened.

However, the enemies of the rightful chihuahua world dominators are evil, but that's just because they say so, and their word is perfect.

LMAO! Fear the chihuahua's!

[Happy Shrew]

I believe in prosocial and antisocial behaviors. They happen to line up quite nicely with concepts of good and evil across cultures.

Animals that have a social structure are capable of antisocial behaviors same as humans are (but with less tools, I suppose). Some probably do engage in them, but untli we know whether or not an animal can perceive malice of any sort I suppose we'll just leave that point as is.

[Acid09]

Godwin's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

:)
My opinion is much like others. I don't believe in evil as a force of nature but rather people's capacity to do acts that are viewed as evil by a culture.

For pure good to exists as a force that people strive for then there must be one true way towards it. Which there isn't. Same with evil. What is evil is only viewed as such by a group of people who agree it is evil. But it could be good to another culture.

[thundersdisciple]

In my personal oppinion there is no true evil, evil is after all in the eye of the beholder. Such as many people eat meat to survive, but are not evil by nature, but I am sure the chow would have a different oppionion.
I do belive in harmful spirits or entities that will cause you specific harm for no other reason than it either entertains them or feeds them. If you would like feel free to e-mail me and I can e-mail back some banishment and protection techniques and spells that might be able to help you :)

thundersdisciple@yahoo.com

[Salanthos]

I beleive in pure evil, but I beleive it is very rare in the world. evil is, I think, a pure unsatiable hunger for power, the power over life and death, hunger so intense there is a willingness to commit atrocities to attain it, a complete disregard for the cost to others. a mindset that destroys what it cannot posses. a force that never has positive influence, ever.

traces of evil occur in everyday actions and everyday people, but almost never is it only evil which acts. most of what is regarded of as pure evil is really mixed with a thousand other emotions, misguided or stupid or uncaring, imbalanced, a thousand diffrent things from diffrent points of veiw.

but I beleive evil exists.

[Vincent Verthaine]

A being of pure evil(or pure good) is an True Absolute,and there is no such thing that can existas a True Absolute.An absolute neans one that is not subject to change in any way,shape or form,or it is not an absolute.The only thing that can be said to be True Absolute is Chaos itself.Chaos is the sum of everything that is ,was ,will be, can be,could be, isn't .won't be,can't be and acouldn't be.It is the Realm of Infinite Possibilities.The Ancient Chinese called it "Tao",we discordians call it(her) "Eris".
Throughout all the myths (even the christian ones) one thing is plain;even the Gods are subject to Chaos.With out Chaos,there is no free will.

Now in the Realm of Infinite Possibilities an Absolute(a pure evil being) can exist as an Abstract Concept.But the moment it "exists",it ceases "to exist".One of the questians I love to ask the christains is "Can the devil repent". Nasty trick questian,I know.If they answer no,then Satan has no free will,and YHWH is pulling the strings.If they answer yes,then you ,might as well rip the Book of Revelations right out the Bible.Heres another,"if God is Pure Good,how can he allow a being of Pure Evil to exist".


I like to clarify a slight mistatement made earlier on this forum

I believe that without evil, good wouldn't exist. Just like order would be nothing without Chaos.

First off I do understand your point and totally agree with the sentiment.
Technically,without Chaos there is NOTHING.One of the most common misconceptions that we discordians have been battling is the whole "Order and Chaos" thing.They are not opposites.The opposite of Order is DisOrder.The Opposite of Chaos is Chaos(yeah I know,you can say VOID-i.e The Real of Total Nothingness, also,but the moment you do,you made NOTHING into SomeThing,with cancels it out).
Order and Disorder is just two ways that Chaos manifests.

[Lion of Faith]

Ofcourse there is evil. Theres needs to be evil if there is to be good and if by some chance there are manifastations of evil then there are equal manifastions of good. There needs to be balance. To put it simply if there is an evil spirit then there is has to be a good spririt to match it. We as the magick folk are bringers of good, though there are those that use this knowledge to bring forth bad. Atleast that is what I beleive. The biggest forms of evil are negativity and fear. Without these emotions then evil cannot began for it feeds off them and needs them to survive. My cure for this? Why just laugh, when ever your scared, lonely, depressed or whatever just smile and laugh. Laughter is the number one tool against evil. :lol: _wiz_ :lol:

or just drink till you cant feel feelings anymore whatever works for you!:achug:

[Infinite Grey]

Yup there is creatures of pure evil, there are creature of pure good. But they are a little bit of a rarity as the good seems to moonlight as evil and likewise with the evil... it's all shades of grey, with your black and white extremes.

[sidhe_angel]

There is no such thing as pure evil or pure good. It is what humans have created to feel safe. Take the fae for an example. They are seperated into the seelie courts and unseelie courts. This does not mean that they are good or evil though. Humans seperated them. They say that unseelie are evil and dark but at times the unseelie are the ones helping a human from being harmed by a so called white-light seelie. Good and evil is just something to show that the human brain is so puny it has to put a label on everything. Anyone come up to you and say "Oh, I'm a good person, I never am evil" is full of *****. Same thing with other beings. There are demons whom are not evil but get cranky. Is a vampire evil just because he has to feed of other living creatures to survive? Are the shadow people evil just because they like to live in dark places and get cranky? I dont think so. Good or evil is just how you see it. Look at it from a different view and you might actually feel sorry for those you called evil or even join them.
Blessed Be
MoonShadow

[Lion of Faith]

There is no such thing as pure evil or pure good. It is what humans have created to feel safe. Take the fae for an example. They are seperated into the seelie courts and unseelie courts. This does not mean that they are good or evil though. Humans seperated them. They say that unseelie are evil and dark but at times the unseelie are the ones helping a human from being harmed by a so called white-light seelie. Good and evil is just something to show that the human brain is so puny it has to put a label on everything. Anyone come up to you and say "Oh, I'm a good person, I never am evil" is full of *****. Same thing with other beings. There are demons whom are not evil but get cranky. Is a vampire evil just because he has to feed of other living creatures to survive? Are the shadow people evil just because they like to live in dark places and get cranky? I dont think so. Good or evil is just how you see it. Look at it from a different view and you might actually feel sorry for those you called evil or even join them.
Blessed Be
MoonShadow


Hmm... there might be truth to what you say. Perhaps one should not jump to conclusions and labels such as good and evil. These are perhaps just comfort devices used to make us feel safe and impowered....I guess the way life should be veiwed is not in black and white but in different shades of gray.

[Emerald Flame]

I've got to say that I think that has to be true evil just as there has to be true good, and everyone has at least a little of both within or around them. Even though evil and good may be relative points (my brother thinks night is evil, I think it's not) they still exist everywhere in everyone. Some are more comfortable with what others view as 'evil' and others are more comfortable with what the majority views as 'good'. If that makes as much sense as I thought it did...

[enchancea]

Does anyone believe that there are purely Evil creatures in the world? Entities that have no other purpose than to cause pain and wreak havoc?
Yep :)

[sidhe]

I don't believe in evil beings, only in evil actions. Things - be they inanimate, living, or metaphysical - are in and of themselves neutral. It's what they do, or how they're used, that creates a good or evil effect.

[Elaira]

Maybe it would be more suitable to view 'good' and 'evil' as aspects of nature. People seem to label 'good' as things/ethics/behaviours that encourages creation while viewing 'evil' as things/ethics/behaviours that encourages destruction. So if we need to kill animals for their meat in order to survive, does that makes us 'evil'? No, that's just part of the cycle of nature. But if the animals were to think like people, pretty soon they would jump to the conclusions that, oh, people are 'evil' because they eat us. Don't we tend to associate 'good' with the our own security and 'evil' with our own insecurity?

Basically, people just act out their nature.(it's the same whether you're animal/insect/angel/demon.) From the normal angry person in the office to the serial killer in jail...they all have problems of their own, right? The only difference is the extreminity of the problem and character of the person. They more or less act them out and create consequences that shapes the world.

When one's needs isn't fulfilled, one would probably act according to first instinct nature implanted us with : fulfill your needs. The choice is to whether to do it through 'good' means (doing whatever is necessary WITH reverence for Life), or to do it through 'evil' means (doing whatever is necessary WITHOUT reverence for Life) When the need is desperate, uncontrollable, one usually resorts to the latter. What people call 'evil'.

Maybe, the notion of 'good' and 'evil' comes with being 'alive'. (and makes it even more biased and complicated.) If you were NOT a living being, what would you consider to be 'good' or 'evil'? Well, we can't really know, because we ARE living beings. Heck, probably the both the terms won't even exist.

[cowdragon]

George W. Bush. Dick Cheney. Ben Stiller. All EVIL!!!



The Cowdragon _wiz_

[Rudas Starblaze]

imo, the biggest difference between animals and humans is, that we have free will. what animals do, is primarily out of instinct and habit, while humans can do this as well, we generally "think" before making a desicision to do something. thus giving us the knowledge of whats wrong and whats right. does evil exsist? yes, it very much does. can it be from our own state of mind or thought process? yes. can it stem from something else, something elusive? yes. can the mind be controlled by outside forces? yes. do people think their minds cant be controlled? yes, even more so then they think.

[Rhisiart]

George W. Bush. Dick Cheney. Ben Stiller. All EVIL!!!



The Cowdragon _wiz_

Ok I agree with the first 2 but BEN STILLER? ZOOLANDER?!!! WHYYYY?!!!!

[Rhisiart]

Ok real short reply. Many have said this but Man is the only evil on Earth. Basically I think it comes down to Greed and Fear. Man wants, or Man fears others KNOW what He wants...and then acts.

[MoonRat]

I don't believe in 'evil', that anybody can be truelly horrible, but actions can be horrible. If there's any evil, it is greed, spite, anger, hatred and ignorance.

[Malcolm]

I dunno, about the whole there can be no "absolute evil" argument.

I can buy it, nothing is an absolute. However...even if there was something that was almost completely evil with just one tiny little spec of good...a spec so small that it really made no difference...Thats still evil.

If someting is 99.9999% evil. I don't want to meet it.

[Astara Seague]

yes there is evil there cant be good without it, pure evil..yes, very possible but would have to be human there are some capable of pure evil,:)