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The Suckling
December 24th, 2001, 02:30 PM
I know in alchemy it's...

Ether
Air
Fire
Water
Earth

And that seems to be what most astrologers think, but I'm still confused.

I once had this belief that the elements represented phases of matter, earth being solid, water being liquid, air being gas, and fire being plasma, then ether being pure energy. So my hierarchy would be this...

Ether
Fire
Air
Water
Earth

Plus, the signs of the zodiac move in this order....

Water
Air
Earth
Fire

Could someone help me?

Haedis
December 24th, 2001, 05:34 PM
I've only once heard mention of elemental hierarchy. It went:

ether
fire
air
water
earth

But i cant remember where i read that, unfortunately.

Kadynas
December 30th, 2001, 06:01 PM
Actually the signs of the Zodiac move, starting with Aries, from Fire to Earth, then Air, then Water...but I don't know how this relates to any sort of 'hierarchy'... If you mean listing them by order of most important, most powerful, etc., then I really don't know. I would include Spirit as my 5th element, but I consider them all to be of equal power and importance.

lucidfire
January 5th, 2002, 02:36 AM
I think having a heirarchy would kind of miss the point; who knows.

I always thought of ether as being more in the realm of air and spirit being the pure energy, but that's just my take on it.

I do like what you wrote about "Phases of matter;" it does fit together pretty well

The Suckling
January 7th, 2002, 08:50 PM
Yeah, the more I think about it the more I don't believe in a fifth element. I have enough trouble separating Fire and Air without imagining Ether. If there is a spiritual element beyond Air it's probably Great Buddha himself. I also believe in total void and chaos, which would be a step beyond air.

Aquila
January 8th, 2002, 02:41 AM
All human knowledge is conceptual and forms an integrated whole. All human knowledge is contextual, the context is the entire sum of human knowledge, which must be consistent. We can make this information hierarchical, organized in a tower or actually a partial ordering, where the base or minimal elements of the ordering are the most fundamental concepts, and higher-level concepts depend on lower-level concepts.
Within the integrated whole of human knowledge, we may focus on what are usually called "fields of study" or "specialties". A field of study is distinguished by a certain conceptual unity: the concepts that make up the field are closely related to each other and are sufficiently self-contained so that the field lends itself to study in isolation for some purposes. Usually if not always, this kind of conceptual unity follows from the existence of a specific subject matter, the real-world object of study.
The theory of elements is a field of study characterized by a subject matter (air, fire, earth, water, spirit) and a set of basic concepts (color, sound, ) that are closely related and in a sense complete, so that element theory lends itself to study as a subject which may be regarded as more-or-less self-contained for some purposes. This is why no one element can be ranked above another.

mol
January 9th, 2002, 04:23 PM
Hmm. Well, an heirarchy seems to lend itself to the belief that one element has more power than the other and I just don Know this to be true.

mol
January 9th, 2002, 04:24 PM
Have you ever thought the fifth might be more than *just* spirit? Could the fifth element possibly be the collective energy that we all hold? Do you think that maybe we *complete* the elements.

kittiepoetrygod
January 9th, 2002, 07:51 PM
Well mol, i use spirit as a term for the all, which i also call the super concious. If i'm wrong, don't tell me, or i'll be sad ;). But yeah, everything falls into an element category or two, and all those things make up Spirit, which can be called on as a seperate thing cause of all the extra energy it has from the differnet things clashing.

And fire is DEFFINATLY not plasma. Plasma is super heated gas, basically, heated so much that it looses almost all its electrons, and they and ions move freely throughout it. Fire is a chemical reaction. And air contains all three stages of matter, and plasma (the fourth) is there, but it doesn't activly make up air.

mol
January 10th, 2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by kittiepoetrygod
Well mol, i use spirit as a term for the all, which i also call the super concious. If i'm wrong, don't tell me, or i'll be sad ;). But yeah, everything falls into an element category or two, and all those things make up Spirit, which can be called on as a seperate thing cause of all the extra energy it has from the differnet things clashing.

How could YOU be wrong about YOUR belief?