Do you believe in Equality?

[Akashic Brother]

Well? I'll post what I think later, after some results.

[star_belfire]

I believe we are all equal even thoguh society doesn't think the same way I do

[Ninjakitten]

Inherently, we start equal. We become unequal by the choices we make. Example, I believe that spiritually evolved people are spiritually evolved by making better choices about their attitudes and spirituality. I believe they are better than me, and therefore we are unequal. Likewise, I don't believe that tweakers that steal from people for their drug habits, and decide that people's ability to conduct their lives as good citizens isn't more important than money for their drugs, are anywhere near my level as a human being. When they make the decision to change that behavior and seek help to do so, they become very close to being equal to me in an instant.

Can we be equal? Sure, but we choose not to be. Some of us choose to be lesser (because it's easier), while others of us choose to evolve and try to do good for the human race, the community, and the world (which can become easy for those who make a habit of it).

[Fire's Shadow]

Technically, no, we are not totally equal.

But I believe in equality and what it stands for. I think in many aspects in life that we should treat each other as equals. Elevating the status and rights of one person over another based on race, sex, sexual orientation, and socio-economic background is wrong. That's my point of view.

[Shanti]

It depends on what perspective of equal you are looking at.
From the perspective of existence yes everything is equal because it is all the same, it exist. Be it rock, human , or a sun...it all had a start and and end which is actually neither start nor end but truly just change. But they all exist, period. Atoms joined into something.

From a society type view, we are a class system so no we are not.
If we were not a class system the poor man could get the exact same medical care as the riches man can buy.

From the perspective of forms of life, to a bird, his life is as important to him as mine is to me as yours is to you. Life in itself is equal as, what is alive wants to be.

Are we humans more important or less than the animals? No prob there. We are animals, just a different species of primate.
No better no worse. Just a species like millions of others.

From the perspective of art..no we are not equal. i can not paint as well as Picasso. My SO can not spin yard as well as i.
And if someone was looking for a mathematician, dont take my application. Find some one better qualified.

Is a man equal to a woman? Depends on what. If he can lift 150 pounds and she only 75, then they are not equal in that particular thing. Is one more important than the other, no. Humans need both men and woman period.

Equally if the fact that everything exist, yes, and in the fact that there is life, yes. We are all equal in the fact that we are alive. But ability can and does makes us unequal, which is logical.

i wish society would stop looking at sex and race and age.
If you need a brick layer, judge them on ability not anything else. And if the one that is the most able, and better at the craft and... is a 54 yr old Chinese woman...good! You have the one that had the best qualifications so you will get good work. You have your brick layer!

But if you are looking for the best human (whatever that could be)..we are then equal as we all are the best we's we can be at this given moment.

So it all depends on what your looking for when you ask are we all equal. :)

[sidhe]

I believe we are all equal.

That doesn't mean we can all do everything as well as everyone else. But each person is of equal worth.

If the question was "Do you believe each person is of equal skill?", then I'd have to say "No."

[Chibi-Fallon]

We're not all equal. Some people suck at a lot more stuff then others.
If my mom's an olympic athlete and my dad is a super genius, and your parents are mentally retarded and physically handicapped I don't think we'd be equal. And I don't want a bunch of PC BS about how great the handicapped are. Throw them into the state of nature (oh political science class) chances are I'm gonna outlive them.

And I would argue that we, and various other species are better than others. Namely the extinct ones. The whole idea of evolution rests on inequality. The idea is you're better than the other guy or you end up dead. If we were all really equal things wouldn't evolve. We'd all have just died of the plague.

And if it's the idea of equal worth. Hate to say it but, not really. Doesn't mean we should kill off people or anything.
It's just that if I've got to vote someone off the island the stoner who lives in his mom's basement before my olympic athlete and super genius parents. And I'm not just saying that because they're my parents.

[Akashic Brother]

First of all, thank you all for your ideas, and the energy you put into satisfying my curiosity. I greatly appreciate it.

I see that the biggest obstacle against mankind's spiritual evolution is self-importance. We think we are so great, and that we have all the answers. We think we are better than everyone else, special in a unique way. Our ego makes us not able to see the forest from the trees. Our ego holds back our awareness, to only see the point directly in front of us. I see equality as a lie, albeit a lie with good intentions. I see equality as a worthwhile view in the beginning of trying to overcome the ego. But in actuality equality implies that we are individuals, equal individuals. This isn't the case. I see that we are part of a collective, part of a whole. You are me, and I am you. We are connected in many ways. When someone breaks the shell of the self, they see that they have not gained anything, but humanity has gained as a whole. Humanity's awareness evolves as one, not as singular. Equality implies individuality, and individuality leads unfortunatly, to self-importance. I also see equality as a confirmation of self-importance. Often we grasp to the idea of equality in an attempt to overcome some deeper feeling of inferiority. We are not inferior, we are one. That's how I see it.

[Shanti]

First of all, thank you all for your ideas, and the energy you put into satisfying my curiosity. I greatly appreciate it.

I see that the biggest obstacle against mankind's spiritual evolution is self-importance. We think we are so great, and that we have all the answers. We think we are better than everyone else, special in a unique way. Our ego makes us not able to see the forest from the trees. Our ego holds back our awareness, to only see the point directly in front of us. I see equality as a lie, albeit a lie with good intentions. I see equality as a worthwhile view in the beginning of trying to overcome the ego. But in actuality equality implies that we are individuals, equal individuals. This isn't the case. I see that we are part of a collective, part of a whole. You are me, and I am you. We are connected in many ways. When someone breaks the shell of the self, they see that they have not gained anything, but humanity has gained as a whole. Humanity's awareness evolves as one, not as singular. Equality implies individuality, and individuality leads unfortunatly, to self-importance. I also see equality as a confirmation of self-importance. Often we grasp to the idea of equality in an attempt to overcome some deeper feeling of inferiority. We are not inferior, we are one. That's how I see it.

May i add some more of my thought to yours?
Individuality isnt bad, to me. i love individuality for this reason.

We are all one but together, that oneness is not a blank piece of paper and do you know why? Because we are all unique and differant, individual, and thus each of us gives a color to that one piece of paper. We all are one beautiful rainbow! And when i say we, i mean everything that exist including us humankind.
So i feel that individuality is wonderful if looked at as 'i am just one of the many colors of the rainbow that make up everything'! Every color is needed, and equal. A prism would be boring if it was all one color. :)

Ok my thought is done! thank you for stimulating it all. :)

[Blackdove]

i'm going to stand up for the concept of equality, because I believe in the equality of experience. The experience we each gain from our lives is of equal relevance to ourselves and to the universe, and does not acquire its worth from the value-judgements of others, nor the status we are afforded in the hierarchical perceptions of society. To live a life as a handicapped person is not a less 'worthy' experience than to live one as an olympic athlete.

[Akashic Brother]

Shanti,
Of course you can add, I love to hear all the imput. I had a feeling you would add to this.

I agree and disagree with your analogy. I agree that we are one brilliant rainbow. I just disagree that I am a solitary colour, seperate from many colours of the rainbow. I see the rainbow as one brilliant color. I don't think the rainbow would suffer without my addition. I don't see that it needs me, but I am happy to be connected to it's brilliance. I see the 'uniqueness', and 'individualness' as an illusion of the superficial. Only on the surface of the physical, and not in energy.

[bbnflpn]

i belive we are all equal, but most of the rest of the world doesnt, of corse we all have our special talents, and this is limited to baby making. i have done alot of things in my life and most of them in male dominated professions, when i pointed this out to some closed minded person on another board he said "well you cant pee standing up" i replied "yah i can its just a bit messier"

as for race, i still belive every one is equal, hopefully others will see this soon, the ones that are blinded by color. i saw once a long time ago a commecial about raceisim, it said the only time the color of your neighbors skin doenst matter and it showed babies in a hospital, and the next one was a picture of a gave yard, then it said something like stop the hate. i always liked that commercial cause it shows how truly closed minded people are.

[Blackdove]

I don't see the problem in accepting that we are both unique and the same at the same time. Red is a part of a rainbow, but it is also unique redness. We are individual and we are everything at the same time. Our individuality is a work of art that the energy underlying it has created. I don't think it follows that the work is an illusion, and only the underlying materials are real. A painting is a unique entity, and not JUST an illusion of the paints that form it.

[Akashic Brother]

I don't see the problem in accepting that we are both unique and the same at the same time. Red is a part of a rainbow, but it is also unique redness. We are individual and we are everything at the same time. Our individuality is a work of art that the energy underlying it has created. I don't think it follows that the work is an illusion, and only the underlying materials are real. A painting is a unique entity, and not JUST an illusion of the paints that form it.


Blackdove,
Some food for thought.

A native Japanese speaker will point to a ‘blue’ sky and say it is AOI. They will then point to a ‘green’ leaf and say it is the same color 'AOI'. Due to their knowledge and conditioning, they actually perceive the sky and the leaf as the same color. When studying different cultures, Anthropologists found that different cultures have a different number of words for colors. Some cultures had five words for different colors, others had as few as four or even three words. What was even more significant, however, was that in some traditional cultures, if there were only three words for colors, they would only see three different colors. Their language "colored" their perception. Their perception determined their experience of color. They only experienced three colors.

A baby doesn't see blue or green until he is taught the words that define the colors. He sees the total color spectrum from infrared to ultraviolet as different shades of just ONE color.
The same is true of sounds. A native Japanese speaker does not hear the difference between an "l" sound and an "r" sound. Untill they study English they perceive them as the same sound.

Long story short, we precieve only what we learn. To transform something we must first see it for what it is without avoidance and denial. We must be clear enough and free enough from our beliefs and stale knowledge to see things as they are.

[Shanti]

Shanti,
Of course you can add, I love to hear all the imput. I had a feeling you would add to this.

I agree and disagree with your analogy. I agree that we are one brilliant rainbow. I just disagree that I am a solitary colour, seperate from many colours of the rainbow. I see the rainbow as one brilliant color. I don't think the rainbow would suffer without my addition. I don't see that it needs me, but I am happy to be connected to it's brilliance. I see the 'uniqueness', and 'individualness' as an illusion of the superficial. Only on the surface of the physical, and not in energy.
i love it, where you see separate color, i see color changing and blending as it all flows in and around and through each other.

The rainbow is color all moving and sparkling, to remove one speck of sparkle, there is a hole.
Each color of twinkle changes the shades, the shine, etc, as it moves. Its alive with this brilliant stimulation of all these different colored twinkles. Its whole because of each little speck.

Funny as i watch the words taking place unfold, i noticed that i can not see the one without seeing the whole, and i can not see the whole without the one. For me the two thoughts are inseparatable. Leave out one of the two thoughts and the other just doesn't exist.

Just like the thoughts of the non-physical and physical. i can not see the one existing without the other. When i think of the non-physical, the physical makes it possible and when thinking of the physical, the non-physical makes it possible.

Perhaps thats why i see opposites not as opposites but compliments of each other. They need each other in order to exist. You need hot to have cold, light to have dark, one to have the whole.

Maybe the two halves of my brain are melted together? JK...:)

This is a great conversation. :)

[Akashic Brother]

Shanti,
I likewise enjoy the conversing!
I see what you mean by opposites complimenting each other, here is my thoughts on it.
Darkness would exist with out light, because darkness is merely the lack of light. Cold does not even technically exist, only heat does. Heat is always present, just at various levels. If there were no heat, I couldn't imagine. 'Cold' is merely a word for an uncomfortably low level of heat. When color doesn't exist we have 'black', the full spectrum is 'white'. When we lose the physical we are left with the non-physical, when we 'die' our energy disperses from the physical and joins a collective in the non-physical. I see that energy cannot be gained nor lost. When someone energy raises they are merely restoring energy(power) that is rightfully theirs to begin with, it is merely being tied up to other less useful functions.

Please forgive my posting style, as being 'confident'. I very much do love to have my perceptions crashed!

[Shanti]

Wow now time to sound really dorky.
It seems that i think more metaphorically, floaty, less physical exacts, or just communicate that way.

Your more solid, precise, actual.

Thats just my perception, not what we are. i am not saying that is you, that is just 'my perception' from exchanged words...but... i am rather floaty. LOL

If we could go into another's mind and see things exactly as they do but with our own mind, we probably would go nuts!!

Heck i see a beautiful portrait just in this thread!! _cloud9_
Every response here is adding another part to this painting!
Keep adding and a mural is born!!

Ok i think i need to go and create something. My mind is just so darn active at this moment. i must release! LOL

[Akashic Brother]

Right on, paint it up Shanti! It would be interesting to see what is manifested.

I agree going into another's mind would probably be pure confusion, followed closely by insanity!!

[HeavensHope]

we are all equally just human beings. The other stuff is BS and people and society place to much value on material things.

[Philosophia]

I believe in equality at birth only, but I do believe in fairness within the bounds of society, i.e. laws, gender, etc..
I believe in individualisation because I am an individual person, with different qualities that make me who I am. I can't be you, and you can't be me. If we were the same, how would we grow? Who would advance us forward? There would be no leaders because who would be different. We would be going around circle infinitly, and soon stagnate and die. Humanity needs change, chaos, and people who are different. Without them, we would perish.
This is how diversity occurs. When we are made as one, there will be no room to grow, learn, and create change. Society cannot grow if we are all the same. As much as people would love to believe, we all have egos.
Individualisation does not equate with dissociation, it actually increases the ability of cohesion through learning and culture.
For example, take Mystic Wicks. Without people who are different, how boring would this forum be? No discussions, debates, disagreements nor anybody with knowledge, opinions, or beliefs? The internet probably wouldn't exist.
Humanity needs individuality. Without it, we die.


I see that the biggest obstacle against mankind's spiritual evolution is self-importance. We think we are so great, and that we have all the answers. We think we are better than everyone else, special in a unique way. Our ego makes us not able to see the forest from the trees. Our ego holds back our awareness, to only see the point directly in front of us. I see equality as a lie, albeit a lie with good intentions. I see equality as a worthwhile view in the beginning of trying to overcome the ego. But in actuality equality implies that we are individuals, equal individuals. This isn't the case. I see that we are part of a collective, part of a whole. You are me, and I am you. We are connected in many ways. When someone breaks the shell of the self, they see that they have not gained anything, but humanity has gained as a whole. Humanity's awareness evolves as one, not as singular. Equality implies individuality, and individuality leads unfortunatly, to self-importance. I also see equality as a confirmation of self-importance. Often we grasp to the idea of equality in an attempt to overcome some deeper feeling of inferiority. We are not inferior, we are one. That's how I see it.

[SageofThyme]

I believe in equal rights but not equality i.e. I believe we should all be given the chance to prove our worth on equal terms but that standards shouldn't be lowered to allow more females or whatever in (If they succeed on the same terms then they should be given that right but standards shouln't be lowered)

At the end of the day I do believe we are differnet -some have different talents to another. Dosn't make someone better or worse just talented in a different way

[CoolJ]

I believe people shoulld be treated fairly, but we are not all equal, not by a long shot

[Infinite Grey]

I dislike most people equally... does that count?

[LostSheep]

I think Shanti makes some good points. Do we mean equal as in rights under law equality of opportunity religious freedome etc., in which case yes, people should be - it'll probably never happen, but that should be the ideal - but if we mean should we all be the same, with the same talents and skills, then no, we're all different, and that's what makes us individuals and not just obedient little clones. There's something that everyone is better at than some one else.

[Sage Rainsong]

I believe that we are equal in the sense that everyone should be treated fairly reguardless of age, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation or physical or mental handicapp. However its quite obvious that we can't all be equal when it comes to ability.

[Old Witch]

It depends on what perspective of equal you are looking at.
From the perspective of existence yes everything is equal because it is all the same, it exist. Be it rock, human , or a sun...it all had a start and and end which is actually neither start nor end but truly just change. But they all exist, period. Atoms joined into something.

From a society type view, we are a class system so no we are not.
If we were not a class system the poor man could get the exact same medical care as the riches man can buy.

From the perspective of forms of life, to a bird, his life is as important to him as mine is to me as yours is to you. Life in itself is equal as, what is alive wants to be.

Are we humans more important or less than the animals? No prob there. We are animals, just a different species of primate.
No better no worse. Just a species like millions of others.

From the perspective of art..no we are not equal. i can not paint as well as Picasso. My SO can not spin yard as well as i.
And if someone was looking for a mathematician, dont take my application. Find some one better qualified.

Is a man equal to a woman? Depends on what. If he can lift 150 pounds and she only 75, then they are not equal in that particular thing. Is one more important than the other, no. Humans need both men and woman period.

Equally if the fact that everything exist, yes, and in the fact that there is life, yes. We are all equal in the fact that we are alive. But ability can and does makes us unequal, which is logical.

i wish society would stop looking at sex and race and age.
If you need a brick layer, judge them on ability not anything else. And if the one that is the most able, and better at the craft and... is a 54 yr old Chinese woman...good! You have the one that had the best qualifications so you will get good work. You have your brick layer!

But if you are looking for the best human (whatever that could be)..we are then equal as we all are the best we's we can be at this given moment.

So it all depends on what your looking for when you ask are we all equal. :)

With a few differences, what she said....

[coyoger]

I don't beleive in Equality. I beleive in balance. Equality sounds good, but is never followed. For example, now they have policy that they will hire x amount of x peoples and well, the fact of the matter is that things shift. And people who were once limited are now in mass and those who thought they were on top are hanging around the bottom ring now. Policys that try and promote Equality don't adjust to the current trends. And this just pisses me off.

[LyraDragonStar]

Yes.

[LostSheep]

*Philosophical thought*
Wicca at any rate, is all about polarity, isn't it; light/dark, summer/winter, male/female, not just opposites but opposite ends of a spectrum, right? So if everything was equal would there be that polarity, if everyone was the same wouldn't they be all bunched in the middle so that there wouldn't be the extremes, it would all just be a kind of hazy blur in the middle ... the cycle of the year depends on the extremes of summer and winter and everything going round again from one extreme to the other, doesn't it... Maybe if people were all the same that cycle wouldn't happen either ....

.... I'll shut up now ... that probably made no sense at all, too much coffee .... _inabox_

[Calen]

I think everyone is born with the potential to be great, and that potential is either realized or not by the choices we make. While some things might not have a clear good or bad choice, some are definitely better than others. Because some people make better choices than others, it follows that some people would reach greater heights than others.

I do, however believe in equal rights. Regardless of race, gender, whatever, people should be treated with equal respect.

[raminda]

We as in humans or we as in all forms of life?

I'm not sure that equality exists no matter how you put it, people are all very different. Rich, poor, etc. People who live positive lives versus those who live to harm others or overall be negative. A menace to society versus a good humanitarian..

I agree with anyone who has said they believe in equality at birth, but the choices you make and the choices made for you (such as parents who screw up a life when they're just a kid, the children can't be blamed for that) are what makes you who you are, and gives you a place in society.

I can hope all I want that people will be considered equal, or I can try to consider everyone equal myself, but what seems to matter most is equality in the society I live in. I can't really do anything to change the opinions of the masses.

[Djinn]

I believe that we all start out equal--we all have equal potential in us. Our choices and the scrapes and dents of life make us unequal. It's like the poor child who goes on to become a wealthy adult...s/he earned it, but s/he started out with the same potential as the child who grew up to be a murderer.

[Rosalie]

We may not be all equal in our skills or physical stature, but we all have the same right to life, and I believe we are equal in that respect, so I voted yes.

However, some people are just plain assholes :/

[Akashic Brother]

In addition to my previous posts, I'll add my current view of infinity, for whomever wants to read it;

When we lose the physical, we are left to return to the collective of humanity's awareness. We have the ability to develop our awareness to the point of infinity. By this I mean, there comes a point when we reach ascension, and our awareness is so strong, that we can not lose it. We retain this awareness we have developed, in the death of the physical, when we reach the collective. It will not be lost. When we bring this awareness to the collective it adds to it, and further's humanity's evolution as one.

[omar]

Some are MORE EQUAL than others. Or at least they think they are.

[sari0009]

Well? I'll post what I think later, after some results.

I believe in equal rights but realize much does differentiate us. Some differences we are born with, obviously, while others develop later in life.


Conditioning, choice tendencies, habits/lifestyle, culture, opportunities, attitudes, beliefs, multiple intelligences (including but not limited to emotional intelligence), associations/environment, education, creativity, and much more does differentiate us. These involve a combination of what we're born with and how it's well recognized and developed (or not) so that we are nurtured to earn and even create new opportunities and cognitive/creative abilities.

In contrast, the term "equality" can sometimes be a very problematic one for far too many people. Some interpret that we should give everyone equal status and opportunity in all things all the time (over compensating to save children from any pain has its drawbacks and illusions -- it's a thief).

[farm girl]

I believe people shoulld be treated fairly, but we are not all equal, not by a long shot

I can agree with this.

[Rudas Starblaze]

equality is a great concept, but in reality, ive yet to witness it.

[LadyCelt]

I believe equality should exist for all. I wish things like racism, sexism, and religous descrimination never did, do, or will exist.

[Contra Mundum]

i don't know how i feel about this,i'm not to sure i believe in equality.

[Blackwolfsdance]

I do not belive we are all equal. We may all have an equal potential, But we do not develop in the same ways. For example my friend tygger is highly skilled with computers. I am highly skilled with firearms. I do belive that we all have a right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness, But that we can never be truly equal nor should we attempt to be. Our diversity is what makes us what we are. Thanks for having me.

[MysticWitch]

I dont think that we will ever be equal. Even a birth I think that people judge you.

[Yasmine Galenorn]

Not really. I think we all have differing talents, abilities, skills, and potentials. So I can't call it equality. However, I don't think different means better or worse, not necessarily. Just different. But equal? No, because that implies 'sameness' to me.

Should people be treated as equals? Depends. I won't lump a child abuser in the same category as Mother Teresa. I do not believe that a serial killer's life is as important as that of someone like ML King's or the neighbor down the street who volunteers one day every week at the homeless shelter to help people.

But will I turn up my nose at someone who's homeless or poor because I'm not either? Not on your life...we're all people, some people are better than others in action and spirit, some aren't, but that has nothing to do with what you have, only with what you do with your life.

Yasmine :colorful:

[Akashic Brother]

*God/The Eagle/etc dips the icecream scoop into the universal energy and plops us into our physical bodies, leaving us different only in our physical experiences that all contribute to each other in the end*

[EternalMaiden]

I believe if we are here on Earth, alive and well with one another than we are equal. We revolve in cycles, and everything in the sacred circle is equally important to the function of another.

Someone who is great in something, needs something else.
We can all benefit, and when we assume we can't... We become bored, lazy individuals that leave dirt behind us.

[MoonRat]

When talking about how worthy somebody's right to life and love is, I believe we're all equal. But then I would, I'm a pacifist of sorts (or try to be lol).

However if somebody breaks the law, then their freedom should be restricted. We need laws to protect people so in that respect they are less equal.