Why are Godesses so chubby?

[Rosalie]

Personally, I love larger women and think being chubby is more appropriate for powerful examples of the feminine form.

But what is the actual reason that so many (mostly greek)Goddesses were depicted as being so huggably plump, back when they were widely worshipped, and also in much later paintings? Was it the popular body shape for women at both times? Was it always, and it's only now that we're being sold corporate lies of anorexic images that we've been brainwashed into thinking that a chubby figure is not the most desirable? Was it because they were to be seen as mother figures, and mothers are commonly plump? Was it to suggest that they were so noble they had many many servants who overfed them, and wore their shape with pride that they didn't have to be thinner? Or some other convention?

Or a bit of everything?

It's pretty interesting. I can't think of many greek Goddesses that are thin. Aphrodite is pudgy, Gaia is suually depicted as being even more so, and someone posted a painting in another topic where all the godesses in it where rather large.

What do you think of this? Is motherly fat for females and overbearing muscle for males the ideal godly form?

[Forever Your Ragdoll]

It's pretty interesting. I can't think of many greek Goddesses that are thin. Aphrodite is pudgy,


Hmm...really? I always thought that the Greek goddesses were very thin.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TxdUlIkrb1YJ:iws.ccccd.edu/Andrade/WorldLitI2332/Greek/aphrodite.gif

If you think she's pudgy, I'd hate to know what you'd think of me :lol:

Most likely, they were depicted that way because it was found attractive in society. For example, in American society you aren't going to find the Virgin Mary depicted as obese because of our standards of beauty etc.

ETA: I don't know what the hell a laughy face is doing right smack dab in the middle of my image URL :lol: but uh...yeah try copying the code into your web browser if you want to see it cuz it's obviously not working.

[Rosalie]

No, the link doesn't work.

Repost and click "Disable smilies in text" which will be below the post box area in "additional options".

[Forever Your Ragdoll]

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbnxdUlIkrb1YJ:iws.ccccd.edu/Andrade/WorldLitI2332/Greek/aphrodite.gif

There we go hopefully that works =]

[Rosalie]

No ;/

You never disabled smilies in your post.

[SSanf]

It was an economic thing. People have always felt the rich and powerful were more attractive.

In those days, a bit of fat meant that you had more than enough to get by. It meant that you had leisure and did not have to toil and labor to stay alive, that you were pampered.

Also, the plumper people were probably generally healthier than their scrawny contemporaries. Good health has almost always been regarded as attractive.

Now, rich people have money and leisure to go to health clubs, spas and tanning parlors and their appearance is what is regarded as attractive. Now, poor people eat cheap fattening food and their appearance is considered unattractive.

Everyone wants to look like the rich and powerful.

[Rosalie]

It was an economic thing. People have always felt the rich and powerful were more attractive.

In those days, a bit of fat meant that you had more than enough to get by. It meant that you had leisure and did not have to toil and labor to stay alive, that you were pampered.

Also, the plumper people were probably generally healthier than their scrawny contemporaries. Good health has almost always been regarded as attractive.

Now, rich people have money and leisure to go to health clubs, spas and tanning parlors and their appearance is what is regarded as attractive. Now, poor people eat cheap fattening food and their appearance is considered unattractive.

Everyone wants to look like the rich and powerful.


I've heard that a lot, but I'm not sure. Unless it can be directly proven...

Larger women certainly used to be more attractive. But at the same time we're bombarded far too much by stick thin figures for it *not* to be media manipulation. Technically, pudgier women SHOULD be more attractive in general, as they have more of what makes a woman sexy. The only thing is folds, and not everyone likes those. But that shouldn't account for such a majority, especially when an increase in other womanly features should dwarf the minor flaws.

I have a theory that the popularity of thinness is a reflection of the lack of substance in our world today; and people strive to achieve that empty state because they have been programmed to believe that.

I mean, it's about sexual attraction. Money usually doesn't make some sexually attractive, even if it makes them fiscally attractive.

Even if people wanted to look like, the guy painting the picture would paint the women the way he wanted.

So it's not an issue of popular image, it's an issue of popular attraction. And sexual attraction can't really be governed by money, we're not that shallow.

We do have Chubby Chasers, or so it's put. The black community in the U.S. idealises larger women quite often, even though they have the "bling bling" thing going on; so how come?

Probably because the media bombarded us with images of "pretty" thin white women for so long, they remained a little less effective.

As for why they chose thin women, it's really quite simple. It's difficult or impossible for many people to attain that state. You don't sell people a shape they can easily achieve. You keep the sweating, keep them miserable, keep them buying your products and listening to your advice.

Another factor is that people want someone to look down on. Enormously fat people tend to move slowly, so obviously all fat people are lazy; not to mention how much they eat! You must be very lazy to get that fat. Fat people are an easy target, and people are looking for more and more "acceptable prejudices" now that more and more things are being declared P.C., people to hate, people to make suffer, people to destroy so they can feel better for themselves. Some people just can't loose weight. Some people just don't care, they want someone to look down on.

I think it should come down to personal taste. But when so many people worship thin women when there are so few, something is broken; it can't be personal taste. There is a factor of manipulation here. Withering us away until we're nothing but bones, yet somehow still morbidly obese.

[BrigidMoon]

I was thinking along the lines with "bigger than life" size. We can draw what a goddess looks like etc etc. but maybe capturing them as a plumper size makes them seem spiritually large as well as physically.

Just my opinion ;)

[Forever Your Ragdoll]

No ;/

You never disabled smilies in your post.

Ah, well I tried. It was just your standard Aphrodite picture, that's all. Sorry I'm so inept at computer :lol:.

[J Santos]

It was an economic thing. People have always felt the rich and powerful were more attractive.

Bingo! Remember that the Greeks had a state-endorsed religion. Meaning that the priest hierarchy began with people who had the most political power. These people tended to be larger because, unlike the peasant class, they could gorge themselves on much more food than those they ruled. While the masses can take hold and spread an idea, they can't do it nearly as easily as the rich and powerful. If you want to humanize a god in such a way to validate your own existence, you will do so in your image. The images of the gods and goddesses were, therefore, started, spread, and endorsed by the powerful in each Greek city state. Unlike hollywood depictions, this usually meant, literally, the fat cats of the town.

[MysticWitch]

Like this? http://re2.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/6102981

That too is my body frame and I dislike it VERY much :2G:

Here are some other chubby goddesses pictures

http://mysticearth.us/images/goddess%20primordial.JPG

http://www.terragalleria.com/images/asia/japa6292.jpeg

[Paracelsus]

I've got to go with the comments made earlier about
a) Varying concepts of Beauty according to cultural conditioning - i.e. if you are poor and everyone is thin and hungry - then large is going to be beautiful. (You can find vestiges of this in the current portrayals of many Hindu divinities - particularly in the popularly available posters, where the ideal body shape mirrors that of the ideal Bollywood leading lady - notably more curvy than the western ideal).
b) Fertility - most Goddess worshippers refer to their Divinity as "mother" - and it is certainly obvious that many of the most ancient goddess images are related to this state - the goddess as the creatrix who births the cosmos - hence the larger frame.

[Rosalie]

Bingo! Remember that the Greeks had a state-endorsed religion. Meaning that the priest hierarchy began with people who had the most political power. These people tended to be larger because, unlike the peasant class, they could gorge themselves on much more food than those they ruled. While the masses can take hold and spread an idea, they can't do it nearly as easily as the rich and powerful. If you want to humanize a god in such a way to validate your own existence, you will do so in your image. The images of the gods and goddesses were, therefore, started, spread, and endorsed by the powerful in each Greek city state. Unlike hollywood depictions, this usually meant, literally, the fat cats of the town.

But that doesn't explain holding them high in a sexual regard, or why men weren't depicted as large. And if it was only women that were big; why were only women fed in the first place?

[MysticWitch]

why were only women fed in the first place?

Maybe back then men desired junk in the trunk :lol:

[Rosalie]

I'm a woman, but I certainly do :)

[Rosalie]

A lot of scientific study has suggested that women are meant to carry a certain amount of "extra" fat, but nowadays we're too worked up with being thin that we forget that. That would be another possible reason.

[Forever Your Ragdoll]

Hmm...another thing came to mind. If you go to http://www.the-clitoris.com/n_html/n_b_image.htm, it explains how the pudgey Aphrodite shape was just the natural shape of women up until about the mid 20th century. It's interesting to think about...
Also, think about it. There are tribes in which, to ensure fertility, they pick a woman and do nothing but feed her day and night until she becomes extremely, extremely obese. Obesity = fertility. Very interesting..

[Rosalie]

Actually I think that the page is saying what I'm saying, they were always meant to be natural and healthy bodies.

[Tzhebee]

Because li'olel chubby goddesses are cuter than twigs. :)

(just this fat chicks opinion. ;) )

[Sun Sprite]

Yes, a certain amount of fat was considered healthy then, as body fat kept people warmer in the often colder climates, and when food was scarece, they still had a little energy to go on until food could be had again. Not to mention, they were more likely to be able to feed thier infants.

As a severely underweight person through no fault of my own, something must be wrong with my thryoid, I know someone my size would never survive in Canada, or even in the northern US 150 years ago.

In general, I tend to find a certain amount of heavier ness in men more attractive, I guess the minds way of trying to reach an equilibrium, neither too fat, or too thin. Yes, I have seen some whom i felt needed to see their doctor about thier metabolism problem. Actually, most obese people I know don't even eat half of what I eat in a day, so I know its their metabolism, and not anything else what or how much they eat.

[Rosalie]

CD players that use up batteries super quickly are see as cheap and bad, and CD Players that last 40 hours are seen as good.

Yet the opposite is true in humans, if you think about it, because of the fact that we don't have a set "outer mass" like the battery does.

Though I do adore big women :)

[J Santos]

But that doesn't explain holding them high in a sexual regard, or why men weren't depicted as large. And if it was only women that were big; why were only women fed in the first place?

A few reasons really. The first goes along with what was already said and ties into what I said earlier. What is visually pleasing/stimulating ties greatly into what society as a whole believes (yes there are exceptions, but these are few and far between compared to the vast majority). Like the goddess figures, these ideals also propogate from the top down, in terms of power and riches. Since power nowadays derives from an ability to reach people, it makes sense that the mass-media largely dictates this image. In ancient times, the primary source of information was from the social figures of the day, i.e. the "clergy" and the aristocrats.

Since women at this time were primarily viewed as objects meant to bare children and please men, the goddesses assumed a more "pleasing" shape.

Men, however, were idealized in their ability to wage war. The greek city-states were almost in constant warfare either between themselves or other nationalities and war was abundant. The ideal male figure, therefore, was tall, muscular, and proud so that he might defeat his enemies.

[Rosalie]

A few reasons really. The first goes along with what was already said and ties into what I said earlier. What is visually pleasing/stimulating ties greatly into what society as a whole believes (yes there are exceptions, but these are few and far between compared to the vast majority).

Do you have any evidence to support this? What is sexually stimulating to someone rarely has anything to do with what is common belief. I don't see how there could be such a link between the two.

Now, they can be led to believe that they do, and I believe this is the case in this day and age. But I think deep down most people prefer a more realitstic and natural figure; a lot of guys I've talked to have admitted it.

[Zephyrstorm]

It's pretty interesting. I can't think of many greek Goddesses that are thin. Aphrodite is pudgy, Gaia is suually depicted as being even more so, and someone posted a painting in another topic where all the godesses in it where rather large.

What do you think of this? Is motherly fat for females and overbearing muscle for males the ideal godly form?

Well, from an art historian's perspective the answer to this question is many-layered.

ergo: here is the quintessential Aphrodite.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/greece/hetairai/aphrodite.html

The Knidia was seen as perfect, and all we have today are replicas, usually from Roman artists.
The artist who created Aphrodite of Knidos, Praxiteles, was quite famous and well loved for his ability to literally make the marble seem alive. Before his creations, statues were not made to be seen from every angle, but only from the front. Praxiteles changed all that. His statue of Aphrodite for the temple at Knidos was given a temple that was round, with Her statue in the center of the building, so that petitioners and Her priests could walk around Her statue.
Praxiteles also devised a system of human proportions which was responsible for the realism of his works. Unlike earlier systems which assumed that everyone has the same basis in proportions, Praxiteles devised a system that could be modified.
Noteably, this is the first full sized human female nude that was created in true three-dimensionality. That alone made it famous in it's day, and insured that This Aphrodite would inspire the future images of women throughout the Classical world, and in the Renaissance as well.

Her Proportions, and thus her "pudgy" form (though I don't think of her as pudgy - just realistic) are directly related to Praxiteles' proportion system.

I know that's kinda complicated, but that's the first reason why Goddesses are depicted the way that They are.

Second is the economic reality that when the civilization is lacking certain resources, the ideals are larger than they would be in times of great wealth. For evidence of this, just look at the 20th century. During the great depression, what women were uplifted? Curvy Vargas girls and Petty girls. During the 20s? Flappers who were expected to be as boy like as possible.

Anyway, Just thought I'd chime in since this is my actual focus of career. :D

[wolfjan1]

Do you have any evidence to support this? What is sexually stimulating to someone rarely has anything to do with what is common belief. I don't see how there could be such a link between the two.

Now, they can be led to believe that they do, and I believe this is the case in this day and age. But I think deep down most people prefer a more realitstic and natural figure; a lot of guys I've talked to have admitted it.
To succumb to the whims of some ADVERTISEMENT agent's control issues is to succumb to the image of the stick woman. The same people who would find great amusement at the image of women stumbling around on six-inch spike heels. With 23 inch waists and 46 inch breasts perched near our chins. Like Barbie dolls and THEIR odd shapes. These are impossible standards. And if you look closely at Barbie, her feet are permanently contracted in to horribly uncomfortable positions. Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Especially if the beholder is looking in the mirror. Accepting and loving one's self is the first step to confidence and an attractive look. Personally, I do not wish to shake the sheets and lose somebody or break their starved bones, but that is my preference. I have been thin and I have been fat and I have been "normal." When I accepted myself and all my own idiosyncracies, I regained control of my eating to fill the emptiness.
Love yourself, love each other and judge not, lest ye be judged.

[J Santos]

Do you have any evidence to support this? What is sexually stimulating to someone rarely has anything to do with what is common belief. I don't see how there could be such a link between the two.

There is nothing to prove, Rosalie. What is common belief is common belief. Meaning that a major portion of society believes one thing. If a major portion of society says "Woman X" is more attractive than "Woman Y," then that is the common belief AND it is what most people think.

The origin of this belief (i.e, whether the societal view dictates common belief or vice versa) can be debated back and forth for ages. In this circumstance, it is a moot point. Many societies that existed around the turn of the millenia BCE viewed physically larger women as more attractive (writing, painting, and, yes, goddess figures all show this). One can assume, therefore, that is was common belief or a societal opinion.

[Rosalie]

To succumb to the whims of some ADVERTISEMENT agent's control issues is to succumb to the image of the stick woman. The same people who would find great amusement at the image of women stumbling around on six-inch spike heels. With 23 inch waists and 46 inch breasts perched near our chins. Like Barbie dolls and THEIR odd shapes. These are impossible standards. And if you look closely at Barbie, her feet are permanently contracted in to horribly uncomfortable positions. Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Especially if the beholder is looking in the mirror. Accepting and loving one's self is the first step to confidence and an attractive look. Personally, I do not wish to shake the sheets and lose somebody or break their starved bones, but that is my preference. I have been thin and I have been fat and I have been "normal." When I accepted myself and all my own idiosyncracies, I regained control of my eating to fill the emptiness.
Love yourself, love each other and judge not, lest ye be judged.


I think the reason thin is so popular is because it's so hard to keep your weigh down it's easy to advertise this and make it even harder for people to achieve; so they'll go back again and again to the diet companies, doctors, dieticians, etc. I bet the diet companies get down on their knees every day and thank the god of lard that McDonalds exists. They do profit out of fat people perpetually trying to be thin; so what better way to make money than advertising this as much as possible, telling people what they're suppose to be eating and we're deiticians and we know except we don't seem to know what a "metabolism" is, and scare tactics like Shock-u-mentaries?

[J Santos]

I think the reason thin is so popular is because it's so hard to keep your weigh down it's easy to advertise this and make it even harder for people to achieve; so they'll go back again and again to the diet companies, doctors, dieticians, etc. I bet the diet companies get down on their knees every day and thank the god of lard that McDonalds exists. They do profit out of fat people perpetually trying to be thin; so what better way to make money than advertising this as much as possible, telling people what they're suppose to be eating and we're deiticians and we know except we don't seem to know what a "metabolism" is, and scare tactics like Shock-u-mentaries?

Maybe so, but if society didn't view this image as attractive, the marketing strategy wouldn't work. The question of which came first can be debated around for a long time :)

[morningstar2651]

Why are mortals so anorexic?

[Rosalie]

Maybe so, but if society didn't view this image as attractive, the marketing strategy wouldn't work. The question of which came first can be debated around for a long time :)

I don't think people do find it attractive. I'm not a guy but a bi girl, but I used to "pretend" I wasn't attracted to larger women a lot.

I think people are attracted to skinny girls, just because they have female features. But I don't think they find the skinniness as attractive as they believe they do.

[morningstar2651]

What people consider "chubby" these days is what is actually known as "average" or "healthy".

What is known as "average" today is what is actually known as "underweight" or "malnourished".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Bouguereau_venus_detail.jpg
Aphrodite is not "chubby" and it isn't a good idea to call her that.

On a side note, isn't her hair gorgeous?

[Rosalie]

What people consider "chubby" these days is what is actually known as "average" or "healthy".

What is known as "average" today is what is actually known as "underweight" or "malnourished".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Bouguereau_venus_detail.jpg
Aphrodite is not "chubby" and it isn't a good idea to call her that.

On a side note, isn't her hair gorgeous?

Wow, that's one of the most amazing figures ever, though I think her breasts need to be a little larger, personally.

You're dead rigtht about healthy and chubby though. I was talking chubby by our standards, as I recognise that it was the commonly loved shape for a woman. I don't think it's offensive at all to consider a goddess "Chubby" though.

Though personally, I think the perfect female figure that I find most aesthetically attractive is Gaia Elsie Russell's "Gaia Alterpiece":

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Wetflame/gaiaelsie.jpg

She's certainly on the pudgy side. While I do enjoy larger figures, I think that's the all round most perfect one.

[Alaiyo]

Well, I say...why not?

[morningstar2651]

Wow, that's one of the most amazing figures ever, though I think her breasts need to be a little larger, personally.

You're dead rigtht about healthy and chubby though. I was talking chubby by our standards, as I recognise that it was the commonly loved shape for a woman. I don't think it's offensive at all to consider a goddess "Chubby" though.

Though personally, I think the perfect female figure that I find most aesthetically attractive is Gaia Elsie Russell's "Gaia Alterpiece":

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Wetflame/gaiaelsie.jpg

She's certainly on the pudgy side. While I do enjoy larger figures, I think that's the all round most perfect one.
Is that Jimi Hendrix?

[Forever Your Ragdoll]

Is that Jimi Hendrix?


:lol::rotfl::lol:

[Epona44]

As others have already said, the ideal of beauty was different then.

Television, which used as a tool of advertizers to sell things :lookwhats tells us that a prepubescent girl is beautiful.

In the past, women with a little weight were considered beauties, and also mature women those with good household skills were admired the most. They were the rightful managers of the larder and so were respected for that.

We live in a culture that worships the young, the empty head, the fleeting, the disenfranchised.

That's probably why images of Christmas are filled with the "home for the Holidays" theme, because it represents a stability we all do not really have in our lives. The solidity, the weight of family.

That's my theory anyway. I think the very plump goddess is also a very ripe goddess, ready to give birth. Fertility can mean more than children, but crops, herds, good business, good commerce.

That's my theory.

:santasmil

[Forever Your Ragdoll]

This is a little random, but today I was watching the Phantom of the Opera and when they're showing statues in the Paris Opera House, they all were rather "chubby" as well. Haha I'm like watching out for that kind of thing now. Now that I'm really looking, it's actually a lot more attractive than today's stick thin figure...
http://www.dace.co.uk/painting/aphrodite/aphrodite_nude.jpg

[Incendia]

Chubby? My Goddess isn't chubby! She's on a low carb diet! _tomatoe_

[Rosalie]

Chubby? My Goddess isn't chubby! She's on a low carb diet! _tomatoe_

I think most Goddesses are too smart to get suckered into diets... and wouldn't they just change how they "Project" themselves or whatever?

[HetHert]

Why would a Goddess change for anything other than her own want?

I was taught by a wonderful Priestess who reminded me everytime I got down on myself about something...

"There is nothing of ourselves that isn't of the Goddess"

She carries infinite faces, infinite forms, infinite possibilities.

[Incendia]

I think most Goddesses are too smart to get suckered into diets... and wouldn't they just change how they "Project" themselves or whatever?

Uhm...that was said with tongue-in-cheek! :hahugh: