Heathern cosmology

[David19]

I was wondering what is the heathern cosmology like. For example, are you hard polytheists, do you see all gods as individual beings (kind of my belief) like seeing Odin, Yahweh and Zeus as different beings with different personalities e.g. they might get on or they might not.

Also aside from the gods, what other beings are there, i've heard of landwrights but what are they and do you make offerings to them.

And just one more thing, on a Asatru site, i read that in the Heathern cosmology, there is a god that is more powerful than any of the others but i think it said was distant or that it got on well with the Norse gods, i think a bit like the Deist impersonal god or the god of Gnostics, has anyone heard this before.

Thanks.

[Rick]

I was wondering what is the heathern cosmology like. For example, are you hard polytheists, do you see all gods as individual beings (kind of my belief) like seeing Odin, Yahweh and Zeus as different beings with different personalities e.g. they might get on or they might not.
All gods/desses are individual beings.
Also aside from the gods, what other beings are there, i've heard of landwrights but what are they and do you make offerings to them.
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=2273929#post2273929
And just one more thing, on a Asatru site, i read that in the Heathern cosmology, there is a god that is more powerful than any of the others but i think it said was distant or that it got on well with the Norse gods, i think a bit like the Deist impersonal god or the god of Gnostics, has anyone heard this before.
Not in any serious Heathen literature.

[Renny]

Most of us are strict polytheists. From the lore aspect of things, the norse faith is completely polytheistic. But from the standpoint of the individual you can't really say for sure, everyone has their own personal view. But I don't think I've met a norse pagan who wasn't all poly.

Yep, there are lots of non gods like landvaettir you mentioned... they are all around, mostly in natural features like rocks, trees, streams, etc. and they are honored with prayers and food offerings. In addition to them there are alfs/elves, jotuns/giants, and certain creatures like ravens and wolves are significant.

Never heard of that... Odin is the allfather of the gods, but he isn't necessarily more powerful than the others... he's just kind of like a chief. And he's not distant or impersonal... he's one of the most popular and complex gods. So it couldn't be him. I've never heard of anything like that, probably just an individual's thoughts on that site

[cowdragon]

another beleif that is important to us is that Heathenry is not THE true religion. It is our religion. There are other pantheons, with their own creation stories, their own legends. Ours are seperate from everyone elses. Or at least that's how I understand it and beleive. ;)



The Cowdragon _wiz_

[Mjollnir]

I was wondering what is the heathern cosmology like. For example, are you hard polytheists, do you see all gods as individual beings (kind of my belief) like seeing Odin, Yahweh and Zeus as different beings with different personalities e.g. they might get on or they might not.

Yes, yes we do, and if you want to watch a heathen go from zero to seriously pissed in .00001sec. tell him his gods/goddesses are all the same as all the other gods of other pantheons and they are all "one".

Also aside from the gods, what other beings are there, i've heard of landwrights but what are they and do you make offerings to them.

There are........awww dammit Rick, beat me to it.

And just one more thing, on a Asatru site, i read that in the Heathern cosmology, there is a god that is more powerful than any of the others but i think it said was distant or that it got on well with the Norse gods, i think a bit like the Deist impersonal god or the god of Gnostics, has anyone heard this before.

Thanks.

Well, I personally never heard that and I have run into my share of heathens who make my brain freeze with outlandish unverifiable information and claim it as fact. I know however that in the temple in Uppsala Thor was in the center flanked by Odin and Freyr indicating Thor was the more "powerful", I guess it is up to the individual but as far as "one" being more powerful than the others, I dont buy it.

[seapearls]

Yes, yes we do, and if you want to watch a heathen go from zero to seriously pissed in .00001sec. tell him his gods/goddesses are all the same as all the other gods of other pantheons and they are all "one".


Hows this for thought....the closest I would ever come to saying deities are one in the same might be when refering to deities with similar attributes in order to simplify something.

For example Ageir is simmilar to Poseidon
Hercules = Thor
Odin = Zeus
Hela = Anubis

but...that sure as heck doesn't make them the same deity.

[Mjollnir]

Hows this for thought....the closest I would ever come to saying deities are one in the same might be when refering to deities with similar attribute in order to simplify something to a non pagan.

For example Ageir is simmilar to Poseidon
Hercules = Thor
Odin = Zeus
Hela = Anubis

but...that sure as heck doesn't make them the same deity.


Having attributes similar to another pantheons deity is totally different from saying "all gods are a manifestation of one god blah blah blibbity blah" and all that similar rubbish. There are heathen gods and goddesses that share similar attributes and traits yet we still look at them as individuals. If you try to "simplify" something to a non-pagan you are doing both you and them a disservice and I am well aware that does not make them the same deity which is what I stated.

[Malcolm]

Thata always a point of contention for me with some of the people I know. They are of the "gods are all just aspects of one divine entity" entity camp. Its gotten to the point where I just avoid that whole discussion. Its like banging my head against a brick wall.

[Mjollnir]

Thata always a point of contention for me with some of the people I know. They are of the "gods are all just aspects of one divine entity" entity camp. Its gotten to the point where I just avoid that whole discussion. Its like banging my head against a brick wall.


It gets so bad sometimes it is just better to let the ignorant be ignorant. I also want to elaborate a tad on my response to seapearls. In my experience I have found...and I am not just talking about religion here...that simplifying, or "dumbing down" if you will, actually causes more confusion. I am not talking about saying to someone that Odin and Zeus, while sharing similar attributes, are two totally different entities but more along the lines of trying to give someone examples of how gods of one pantheon are equivalent to gods of another to try to help them to understand, thats where the disservice comes in as they then may think they are both the same. I have found that taking the time to either explain properly or give them the ability to research more on their own is better...again, not even talking about religion here...I deal with situations like this every day here at work so it makes it easier.

[seapearls]

It gets so bad sometimes it is just better to let the ignorant be ignorant. I also want to elaborate a tad on my response to seapearls. In my experience I have found...and I am not just talking about religion here...that simplifying, or "dumbing down" if you will, actually causes more confusion. I am not talking about saying to someone that Odin and Zeus, while sharing similar attributes, are two totally different entities but more along the lines of trying to give someone examples of how gods of one pantheon are equivalent to gods of another to try to help them to understand, thats where the disservice comes in as they then may think they are both the same. I have found that taking the time to either explain properly or give them the ability to research more on their own is better...again, not even talking about religion here...I deal with situations like this every day here at work so it makes it easier.

I had this discussion with a guy here at work last week, that's why I brought up certain gods because those were basically the ones he brought up. He was asking me if we saw all gods as the aspect of one and I said no their all different gods. He was saying that their are those that from pentheon to pantheon "seem" similar but with just a different name that their basically the same god and I was trying to get the....BUT THEIR NOT point across to him. He's starting to understand it all I think.

[Darkdale]

And just one more thing, on a Asatru site, i read that in the Heathern cosmology, there is a god that is more powerful than any of the others but i think it said was distant or that it got on well with the Norse gods, i think a bit like the Deist impersonal god or the god of Gnostics, has anyone heard this before.

Thanks.

That is simply absurd. I've never heard anything of the kind. I would recommend to you to begin reading the Sagas and the Eddas. It's the fastest and easiest way to learn the heathen worldview.

[Nantonos]

And just one more thing, on a Asatru site,
Can you give a link to that site?

i read that in the Heathern cosmology, there is a god that is more powerful than any of the others but i think it said was distant or that it got on well with the Norse gods, i think a bit like the Deist impersonal god or the god of Gnostics, has anyone heard this before.

Thanks.
It sounds like an attempt to reconcile Judaeo-Christian concepts with Heathen ones. Sometimes people who have a strong Judaeo-Christian upbringing will try to deal with the feeling that they are 'doing something wrong' by pretending that the Pagan gods they now claim to worship are just ways of accessing the more remote monotheistic deity they still half believe controls it all.

Tis is usually a transitional stage, after which they either get comfortable with their new Pagan faith or relapse into the imprinted patterns of their childhood.

[Malcolm]

What?

[David19]

I think this is the link, http://users.frii.com/asacat/the.htm and the quote is:What made me secure about addressing Thor was the fact that the book had spoken of a God higher (but not in conflict) with the gods of Asgard. This mysterious Original God had no quarrel with Germanic gods such as Odin and Thor. At that point in my life I knew little of religions other than the one I practiced, so I simply equated this Creator with Yahweh. I remember being very pleased speaking to Thor during that storm.

What I didn't know then was that the Higher God mentioned in the book was not always essentially identical to the Old Testament god. It would be many years before I discovered the existence of Gnostic Christianity, which often claimed that the God of Jesus was not necessarily the god of Abraham.

Thanks for the replies, since i don't know much about Heathern cosmology, BTW, about the Eddas, can you buy them in book shops or are they only available online to buy?.

Thanks.

[Mjollnir]

I think this is the link, http://users.frii.com/asacat/the.htm and the quote is:

Thanks for the replies, since i don't know much about Heathern cosmology, BTW, about the Eddas, can you buy them in book shops or are they only available online to buy?.

Thanks.


I am by no means ripping on you Dave but that link pissed me off to no end and IMO is horseshit....on to your other question, you can go to Borders,Barnes & Noble...where do you live?...or better yet Amazon, they have both Eddas as well as a ton of the Sagas, if you need any help gimme a holler.

[Nantonos]

I think this is the link, http://users.frii.com/asacat/the.htm

Thanks. Its pretty much as I guessed:
Right now this experimental page is simply a collection of quotes that might be of interest to a person practicing a Gnostic Christian Germanic Heathen faith. The quotes are offered to support several ideas which could be relevant to a path which blends Teutonic Paganism with the Gnosis of esoteric Christianity.

[David19]

I am by no means ripping on you Dave but that link pissed me off to no end and IMO is horseshit....on to your other question, you can go to Borders,Barnes & Noble...where do you live?...or better yet Amazon, they have both Eddas as well as a ton of the Sagas, if you need any help gimme a holler.

Thanks for the help. I live in London, UK but i haven't seen it in Borders or Waterstones (another big book shop). I thought about Amazon but i still live with my parents and don't really want them knowing about my religious interests yet. I'll still keep looking, but do you know what section it would be in like would it be with all the other books on paganism & wicca like the Mind, Body, Spirit & occult or would it be in the history section.

Thanks.

[Mjollnir]

Thanks for the help. I live in London, UK but i haven't seen it in Borders or Waterstones (another big book shop). I thought about Amazon but i still live with my parents and don't really want them knowing about my religious interests yet. I'll still keep looking, but do you know what section it would be in like would it be with all the other books on paganism & wicca like the Mind, Body, Spirit & occult or would it be in the history section.

Thanks.


In the mythology section.

[Nantonos]

Thanks for the help. I live in London, UK but i haven't seen it in Borders or Waterstones (another big book shop).

You will find these in any Waterstones.

For example they have in stock Carolyne Larrington (Translator) The Poetic Edda (Oxford World's Classics) .

Try the classical literature section, or ask a store assistant to locate it for you.