Eve and the snake.

[Selba]

I was wondering what people's opinions are on Eve having been tempted by the snake in Eden, thus leading to the "downfall of man". Would you scorn/blame her for humanity's downfall for having done it or is she a symbol of the quest for knowledge and truth? Something else: How would you describe her as if you were putting in the classic representation of a god/dess?

[CzechWoods]

there was no literal snake in the first place.

this is a glyph and no mpore

[OpenHands]

I never took the story literally so there's no place for blame. To me, it's a metaphor for the rise of human civilization.

>>>How would you describe her as if you were putting in the classic representation of a god/dess?<<<

Just to clarify, could you explain what you mean by "the classical representation" of a deity? Thanks. :)

[kal]

im afraid i dont believe in adam and eve
a interesting story though

[Selba]

I never took the story literally so there's no place for blame. To me, it's a metaphor for the rise of human civilization.

>>>How would you describe her as if you were putting in the classic representation of a god/dess?<<<

Just to clarify, could you explain what you mean by "the classical representation" of a deity? Thanks. :)


I don't believe in the story either, but your idea of the rise of human civilization is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

What I mean by "classical representation" is something like
"[diety name]: Patron of -------." Followed by a bit of information on common myths on the diety.

[OpenHands]

Selba,

Thank you for the clarification, I think I understand what you're looking for better now. I've been giving it some thought and I have a difficult time seeing Eve in a goddess role. In my mind, she's very much a mortal creation of a very powerful god. I guess she could be seen in a mother or consort role, but she represents humanity to me, not a goddess. Erm...not very helpful, I know.

[LadyCelt]

I take it as the Biblical version of Pandora and Pandora's box really. Instead of a box, it is a snake. The woman is to blame for destruction etc.

[IrishDancer]

I was wondering what people's opinions are on Eve having been tempted by the snake in Eden, thus leading to the "downfall of man". Would you scorn/blame her for humanity's downfall for having done it or is she a symbol of the quest for knowledge and truth? Something else: How would you describe her as if you were putting in the classic representation of a god/dess?

Well, I can't answer the goddess question, but it'd be interesting for me, as a Christian, to see the answers others come up with. Commonalities are always interesting to me, so I'm looking forward to that. Put on your thinking caps, guys! I know nothing about goddesses!

But as far as Eve and the snake go -- although I *do* believe the story and take it all literally, I still don't blame Eve for the start of sin or any such thing. I think Eve represented what was in all of us, and what was to come. It's something I think every individual has to see and try to correct in themselves.

I also can see how it would seem like a story of the damnation of the quest of knowledge and truth, seeing as that's what she was after when she wanted the fruit. But in other places in the Bible, it says to test and learn about things -- to test every prophecy and every spirit -- which includes the Bible itself! So learning isn't what's forbidden....

The tree God forbade them from held, as the snake explained to Eve, all the knowledge that God had. Eve wanted it, she wanted to become/become like God. I think that's what was forbidden, not seeking knowledge and truth.

But the messed up thing is that she did eat from it, and so did Adam. But did they become like God or get really smart? Nope, God warned them. He said they'd die, He told the truth (in the story, even if you don't believe in it). It was the snake who lied... so I don't think he was helping out or expressing the need to step outside the box of Christianity and gain other knowledge.

[semi]

In Christian mythology, the Eve story is about the sacrifice of innocence for the acquisition of knowledge. Knowledge is not free. We pay for it. The loss of innocence and not being able to live in the Garden in blissful ignorance is the price paid. She symbolizes the difference between remaining as you are in whatever form that may be or taking a chance, risking, and becoming something more. I'm in favor of the snake in this myth.

I don't think Eve can be or should be put into the classification of a goddess. There are many characters in mythology. They're not all divine. Some are just folks like you and me who are given a choice to better themselves.

[Toby Stimpson]

It could be said though that Eve is a model...soemwhat of a metaphor as others have said here of a qaulity in Humanity. I think in amny ways God knew that the garden would one day become constricting for Adam and Eve, and so placed the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden to tempt them. I personally see Eve as being a metaphor for the soemtiems deadly human ambition of discovery of gaining knoweldge. If you look at it, why do people risk their lives to climb mountains, or go to the Poles, or even spend huge portions of their lives searching for answers or triumphs? I see it as being a natural human thing, a curiosity that allows us as a species to grow. I think also perhaps the idea of Pandora opening the forbidden box speaks to this, a metaphor for Human curiosity...it also looks dirctly into the cycle of literature. I studied Adam and eve in my english class as a tragic tale. Tragedy in this sense is not referring to a tragedy, but more the worldview that the world is dismal. This then moves into the world of Satire and finally Comedy where although the world is bad one can embrace it with experiance knowing we'd be more wiser. So i see the old story of Adam and Eve being sent out of the Graden as a hopeful tale, as a tale that states that we as a species do not belong in a Paradise because after a while it would become too constricting.

Namaste

Tobias

[cinnamon]

Back in my Catholic days, the priest at my church pointed out that it was never God who told Eve not to eat the fruit. God told Adam and Adam told Eve. It was only Adam who broke God's law (and yet she gets childbrith as a punishment and Adam gets to work... yeah, *that's* fair... grumble, grumble).

It has little to do with what you're asking, but since it was pointed out to me, I never consider Eve the one who caused all the mess, I've always blamed Adam.

[David19]

In Christian mythology, the Eve story is about the sacrifice of innocence for the acquisition of knowledge. Knowledge is not free. We pay for it. The loss of innocence and not being able to live in the Garden in blissful ignorance is the price paid. She symbolizes the difference between remaining as you are in whatever form that may be or taking a chance, risking, and becoming something more. I'm in favor of the snake in this myth.

I don't think Eve can be or should be put into the classification of a goddess. There are many characters in mythology. They're not all divine. Some are just folks like you and me who are given a choice to better themselves.

I agree with you since i think it shows that everything in life has a price, Eve got knowledge (and power?) but it cost her comfort, although sometimes things are worth paying for.

I also agree with wha Openhands said about her being a mortel created by Yahweh, i'm not sure if she's a goddess but maybe a mother figure or someone who can help you choose (she was the one who made a choice), maybe she's like a patron saint of free will or something or a demigod.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I was wondering what people's opinions are on Eve having been tempted by the snake in Eden, thus leading to the "downfall of man". Would you scorn/blame her for humanity's downfall for having done it or is she a symbol of the quest for knowledge and truth? Something else: How would you describe her as if you were putting in the classic representation of a god/dess?

I blame both of them. they both ate the apples of their own freewill.

[CzechWoods]

I blame both of them. they both ate the apples of their own freewill.

they didnt eat apples

none of them ate apples

there were no apples

and no apples were mentioned, until some mediaval monk translated/transcribed the bible as to apples, so people would find it more easy to understand the trext in the bible

why did he change it ? because he was ignorant himself. not undrestanding anything of the glyph of that OT "story"


they ate from the FRUIT of the tree of knowledge/wisdom or whatever it si called in english

[omar]

THe story of the quest for knowlege & the snake is all with in the human body. Look up a book on Kundilini ( snake). The human has to raise there Kundilini power to there brain to realize the tree of knowlege. You realy have to get a book on it & read it to under stand it.

[Drunken_Monkey_Cabal]

what kind of apple was it?

golden delicious or a granny smith or was it just an apple? was there only one apple on the tree or was there dozens like on a normal tree.

And if you blame eve you're a ****tard. seriously she did somthing stupid life moves on.

Of course you women have to apparently push out babies for that sin.

Lulz

[eldora_avalon]

In Christian mythology, the Eve story is about the sacrifice of innocence for the acquisition of knowledge. Knowledge is not free. We pay for it. The loss of innocence and not being able to live in the Garden in blissful ignorance is the price paid. She symbolizes the difference between remaining as you are in whatever form that may be or taking a chance, risking, and becoming something more. I'm in favor of the snake in this myth.

I don't think Eve can be or should be put into the classification of a goddess. There are many characters in mythology. They're not all divine. Some are just folks like you and me who are given a choice to better themselves.
All of that, plus the snake is supposed to represent Lilith who was supposed to be Adam's first wife. There are two versions of creation, I think it is Genesis I and Genesis II. In the first one Adam's wife is created from the dirt, just like him, in the second she is created from his rib. There are some other differences, which I can't think of right now. Anyway, the first story doesn't give her a name, the second calls her Eve. Some people think they are 2 stories about the same events, some think the first is about Lilith, the second about Eve. There are other documents that have survived that talk about Lilith.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Then there is the story of Eris and the Apple of Discord.

Anyone here ever read the "Story of B",by Daniel Quinn.

he has a very interesting hypothesis.

In a nutshell:

Mankind started out as a migratory hunter-gather society.
Travelling back and forth through out the land whever there was food available.

Since the women tended to stay close to "camp",they were the first to notice that at the places where latrines were dug,plants seemed to grow better.
Women were the ones to discover "agriculture".

More food meant bigger populations.
Bigger populations meant needing more land to plant crops.

During droughts and crop failures,starving people would raid farmlands.
To defend farmlands,weapons and "soldiers" were needed.

You can figure out the rest.

[Meabh23]

Then there is the story of Eris and the Apple of Discord.

Anyone here ever read the "Story of B",by Daniel Quinn.

he has a very interesting hypothesis.

In a nutshell:

Mankind started out as a migratory hunter-gather society.
Travelling back and forth through out the land whever there was food available.

Since the women tended to stay close to "camp",they were the first to notice that at the places where latrines were dug,plants seemed to grow better.
Women were the ones to discover "agriculture".

More food meant bigger populations.
Bigger populations meant needing more land to plant crops.

During droughts and crop failures,starving people would raid farmlands.
To defend farmlands,weapons and "soldiers" were needed.

You can figure out the rest.

You ever read the "Chalice and the Blade"?

It gets into this cultural history in more detail I believe, including some lengthy ruminations on the story of Eden.

[Agaliha]

Um, I came across this site awhile back...saw the title of this thread and thought it fitting to put here:

Eve and the Identity of Women (http://witcombe.sbc.edu/eve-women/1evewomen.html) chapter 6 talks about Eve and the serpent.

There's also a book Amazon.com: Adam, Eve, and the Serpent (Vintage): Books: Elaine Pagels (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geuq9ERLNEgI8A12xXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE4bmFtZ2Q4BGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANZUzEwN V8xMTg-/SIG=12n78no8d/EXP=1152685508/**http%3a//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679722327%3fv=glance) that discusses such things.

[Grimr]

I take it as the Biblical version of Pandora and Pandora's box really. Instead of a box, it is a snake. The woman is to blame for destruction etc.

Interesting story too.

Pandora's Box.

[Grimr]

I find the story of Lilith to be more interesting. I am not sure if anyone here has mentioned it yet.


Anyhow Lilith was supposed to be the first woman to be the partner of Adam , but she refused him and was casted out of the garden by God to be turned into a demon.

She refused to submit to Adam in his sexual prowess or being in a relationship with him in general.

So God then created Eve since she was submissive and all things that Adam desired.

Or that is how the story goes anyhow.

[plumedsnake]

The Eve and serpent in the garden story is one of those images that occur around the world and is interpreted differently by different cultures.
In many cultures the snake is not tempting Eve with the fruit. Far from it, the snake is actually protecting the tree and it's fruit and Eve is definately a Goddess and is often depicted in triple goddess form. For instance, Herakles tries to pluck the fruit of the tree that is guarded by the triple godess called the Hesperides, but first he has to get by the snake which is called Ladon, i believe. In another greek myth it is not the goddess handing the initiation fruit to the man but the other way round. Paris is handing the fruit to the triple goddess, but only this time he has to hand it to one of them, the most beautiful one of them all, and he chooses Aphrodite thus sparking the events that will end up as the Trojan war. Many Sumerian myths again depict the Goddess and her consort the Serpent initiating a male by handing him the fruit of the tree. etc etc etc.

[Theres]

just the Christianized version of Prometheus.

snakey got a bad rap.

[CzechWoods]

well maybe snake was just bored and wanted to have a nice chat. who d say eve would take all so personally..... but there is a different truth behind the story too.
an excellent meditation topic

[Neosnoia]

I was wondering what people's opinions are on Eve having been tempted by the snake in Eden, thus leading to the "downfall of man".

It's an allegory. :)


Would you scorn/blame her for humanity's downfall for having done it

Nope.


or is she a symbol of the quest for knowledge and truth?

Sorta. Yes and no. She is a symbol (imo) of humanities' attempt to live without God (that's the nutshell version of a very long allegory).

[Neosnoia]

In Christian mythology, the Eve story is about the sacrifice of innocence for the acquisition of knowledge. Knowledge is not free. We pay for it. The loss of innocence and not being able to live in the Garden in blissful ignorance is the price paid. She symbolizes the difference between remaining as you are in whatever form that may be or taking a chance, risking, and becoming something more. I'm in favor of the snake in this myth.


Good explanation. :cheers:

In ANE mythology a serpent or dragon usually represented chaos or challenge. The "serpent" challenged mankind to grow. It can be looked at as "bad" in that ego and desire can draw us away from God, but the challenge is important too.

[Star Son]

You ever read the "Chalice and the Blade"?

It gets into this cultural history in more detail I believe, including some lengthy ruminations on the story of Eden.

Riane Eisler had a very good point in that book, noting how the serpent was associated with the Goddess of ancient cultures like Catal Hyuk, and how that story was meant to discredit the Goddess and replace her with an aggressive tyrant of a God.

The mystical meaning of this tale can be found in the Kabbalah. I think that this is also the most accurate because, hey, it was the Hebrew mystics who came up with this tale, that would seem to be the most accurate.

It is kind of funny that the literal interpretation of this story is still alive and well in this age's 'advanced' culture.

Star Son

[plumedsnake]

The mystical meaning of this tale can be found in the Kabbalah. I think that this is also the most accurate because, hey, it was the Hebrew mystics who came up with this tale, that would seem to be the most accurate.


actually it wasn't the Jewish mystics that came up withthe tale. The tale existed way before that in different forms and in other cultures.