Christian Wiccan and Hoodoo

[Gracecat]

I've come across many people that say Christian based pagans are impossible for one reason or another.

Hoodoo is a hodgepodge of various belief systems and one of those is Christianity. This is commonly acceptable and understood.

It's a basic question. Why is one acceptable but the other is not?

[Malcolm]

I always thought that Snateria/hoodoo used christian imagery to disguise their beliefs, not because they actually believed in christian dogma.

I could be wrong though.

[Cyzarine]

I always thought that Snateria/hoodoo used christian imagery to disguise their beliefs, not because they actually believed in christian dogma.

I could be wrong though.

It's not that they believe in Christian dogma. Christian dogma was not around when Christianity first started. The dogma started because of man. So, I don't think they use it to disguise their true beliefs. Just like Gnostic are Christians but where called heretics because they believe in a goddess and such. Now the Christian church does not see gnostics as Christian but pagan. Yet, gnostic are some of the founders of the Christian church.

As for your question, Gracecat. I am not sure. I accept everyones beliefs and practices.

[Felidae]

Hoodoo is a system of Folk/Black American magic that originated in the South and parts of the Appalachians that is strongly based on rootwork and Sympathetic Magic.

Since it has a lot in common with Voodoo (considering it's early practitioners probably practiced both) it is often confused with it. But (based on many references) I have always thought Hoodoo in and of itself has almost nothing to do with the practitioner's (or any) religion.

Edit:

Sorry, Gracecat, I did not read your question correctly.

I think it's because most Wiccans want to seperate themselves from the old, accepted belief system which they feel or have been taught to feel is oppressive to them.

[Shanti]

I've come across many people that say Christian based pagans are impossible for one reason or another.

Hoodoo is a hodgepodge of various belief systems and one of those is Christianity. This is commonly acceptable and understood.

It's a basic question. Why is one acceptable but the other is not?

I would like to know that answer!!

I have no prob with people following their hearts and not the crowd.

If your heart says your christian beliefs and your other beliefs do mix and make sence for you...who the heck can say otherwise?

Heck following your heart is where your truth is. Its not anyone elses truth but yet others judge it!! Go figure!!

I am guilty of being judgemental when people say there beliefs are such that its ok to kill animals and hurt others. I am not sure how I should feel. Part of me says they can feel whatever is right for them but I just dont want anyone hurting others. So I have conflict there.

But if your beliefs hurt no one, my gosh you are right and true to you and even if i dont understand i respect you for standing in your truth!

[David19]

I'm not sure why, maybe they've had bad experiences with christians or something or they're just jerks. I think Hoodoo is just a system of magic, that anyone can practice since i've heard that a lot of Catholics practice it and others regardless of religion, like witchcraft, since anyone can be a witch -wiccan, satanist, christian, Jewish, muslim, etc.

I can also see what you mean since a lot of pagans seem to think you can't be both, although usually when i see christian bashing, i think fluff bunny.

[Gracecat]

Well, the reason I ask is that you can use the MW search engine and find several theoretical debates why you cannot be a Christian and a Pagan at the same time due to each belief system practically cancelling the other out. It's polar opposites.

This isn't so much agreeing that one can practice what they want. I recognize everybody's spirituality is a bit different and there's no wrong way to practice anything. Just a curious observation that Hoodoo discussions commonly accept brief Christian influences exist in the religious dynamics and Christo-paganism is hotly debated :)

To be quite honest I have nothing to add to the argument because I only have very little working knowledge of Hoodoo and most of that is based from unreliable yet commonly accepted resources. The movie, The Skeleton Key, for example explained it to my understanding well enough for a layman but I'm not willing to say they're very accurate ;). So unfortunately I can't even begin to formulate an answer to my own question.

[Little Billy]

I've come across many people that say Christian based pagans are impossible for one reason or another.

Hoodoo is a hodgepodge of various belief systems and one of those is Christianity. This is commonly acceptable and understood.

It's a basic question. Why is one acceptable but the other is not?

Are you suggesting that Voodoo is Christian?

[kystrawberry]

I am from the appalachian mountains and I have never heard of hoodoo.

[Shanti]

Funny how perspectives work. Some see opposites as canceling each other out...I see opposites as creating something new light water and fire making steam and black paint and white make gray!!

Maybe thats why I can see mixing Christianity with other systems! I see newness, growth, change, being born!! :)

[Shanti]

We need semi in here for the african based education!!! :)

~goes off to find him~

[Little Billy]

Funny how perspectives work. Some see opposites as canceling each other out...I see opposites as creating something new light water and fire making steam and black paint and white make gray!!

Maybe thats why I can see mixing Christianity with other systems! I see newness, growth, change, being born!! :)

You just made Jerry Falwell cry.

[Shanti]

Gracecat could this be more along the lines of your thougth cause hoodoo and voodoo arent christianized from my understanding but Santeria is! And its widely accepted as such.

From Semi's class thread:
Santeria literally means "saint worship." It is a religion that grew out of Ifa during the European colonization of Africa and the slave trade. In an effort to maintain their religious traditions, the African slaves adopted Christian iconography to disguise their true practices. For example, Saint Barbara is often depicted with a sword. The sword is a weapon preferred by the orisha Shango. So Shango could be worked with through the imagery of Saint Barbara. Each orisha was syncretized with a saint. However, as the religion grew and evolved, the use of Christian iconography became so predominant that today some people use only the Christian paraphenalia and none of the African. This is especially true in Puerto Rico, but Santeria is common in various forms all over the Carribbean, South America, Central America, and the United States (most notably in the southeastern states).

[Little Billy]

Gracecat could this be more along the lines of your thougth cause hoodoo and voodoo arent christianized from my understanding but Santeria is! And its widely accepted as such.

From Semi's class thread:

I know what Voodoo is.

What the heck is Hoodoo?

[Shanti]

I know what Voodoo is.

What the heck is Hoodoo?

To put it real simple..a type of folk magick! :)

[Little Billy]

To put it real simple..a type of folk magick! :)

I just figured it was Cajun for "Voodoo".

Thanks.

[Gracecat]

Little Billy, try this. http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html And as far as my question goes, it really doesn't have anything at all to do with Voodoo. I don't want to be a thread nazi but I'd rather not get into discussions on the difference between Hoodoo and Voodoo quite yet because it departs from the original question :).

Shanti I was thinking Semi needed to be in here too. And I may be using the wrong terminology Hoodoo or Santeria. I was under the impression that Hoodoo used Christian iconology as well. But yes, that begins to shed light on the differences. Thanks! :)

(And no Voodoo isn't remotely Christian)

[semi]

Disclaimer: every word I have ever written here on Voodoo, Santeria, Ifa, and Hoodoo has come from personal experience, personal study, or conversation with others over the years. Your experience and experiences you read about may differ drastically.

Voodoo: a religion of ancestor worship originating from ceremonial practices in Africa. It was not so much a religion, but a style of worship common among many tribes. The slave trade decimated and scattered these tribes. This style of worship was a common factor among them and these diverse tribe members began to practice it together. It evolved into a religion in Haiti. When it later came to North America, it was influenced by Native Americans and Europeans. American Voodoo is very similar to yet different from Haitian Voodoo. For example, in Haitian Voodoo it's generally accepted that there is a "god," a creator loa, and it's very orthodox. In America and Canada, some houses have a "god," others don't, and it's often very experimental, such as adding practices from other religions or philosophies.

Santeria: originated from Ifa, a monotheistic African religion. Santeria basically is Santeria with a Christian veneer. The Spaniards were insistent about the slaves practicing Christianity, not Ifa. But the Africans recognized aspects of the Christian saints that were very similar to the orisha of Ifa, so it was an easy fix to just put a veil of Christianity, the saints, over the orisha. It has become so Vhristianized in some places that the African origin is almost unrecognizable.

Hoodoo: a craft, a folk magic, no different from any folk magic anywhere else on the planet. Like other folk magic practices, it has influences from all over the place. It has nothing at all to do with Voodoo, but many practitioners of Voodoo practice Hoodoo, the same way that many Wiccans practice Witchcraft. Some folk magics mix well with some religions. Voodoo and Hoodoo mix well. And they rhyme, too. And the unfortunately named "voodoo doll," which also has nothing at all to do with Voodoo, will always link the two, even though poppet magic existed long before Voodoo and probably originated in Europe.

Having said all that, I have almost nothing to say about why Hoodoo is accepted, yet people argue over the Christian/Pagan thing. All things are possible. Why not a Christian Pagan? It's that simple to me. If someone wants to define themselves as such, why not let them? But people need to reinforce their own beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others. It solidifies their reality and "truth" to destabilize someone elses world. Also, once people are settled in their beliefs they tend to not want to be unsettled.

Christianity is just another religion. Parts of it can be taken to add to other religions. Christianity itself borrowed a lot. It seems ok to me to borrow from it to add to a Pagan religion. Why not? I think religion should be a personal thing, adaptable to suit your needs, not a rigidly structured binding set of things you can't do.

[semi]

I hope that helped.