Neo-nazi wiccan tradition

[David19]

I found this site when i was doing research for my holocaust essay http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/wicca1.htm and it mentions something called Wotansvolk, which apparantly is neo-nazi wiccan thing, from what i could find, has anyone heard of this tradition and, if you have, what do you think of them, i think they are probably idiots.

BTW, just in case your wondering, the site isn't a neo-nazi one, it just talks about it.

Anyway what are your thoughts.

[Lunacie]

The link within the link to the Wotanvolk site doesn't work. I did look it up on the internet and found some information on the founder of this tradition. Just as Asutru is not Wiccan, neither is Wotanvolk. They may be Pagan but they are not Wiccan. Any Asutru will tell you that.

[azzeenasman]

Hitler subscribed to a magazine called ,,Ostara,but dont hold me to that,I read about it online.I never heard that before,till recently researching my Anglo Saxon name.

[ValD]

Wotansvolk is nothing to do with Wicca. It claims to be Asatru, but this is rejected by asatruers. It's another nasty little American Nazi/White Power group posing as pagan.
From the Anti-Defamation League website (http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/scutari.asp?xpicked=2&item=scutari):Wotansvolk is a racist variation of Asatru created by David Lane, Scutari's associate in The Order. (Lane is best known for coining the so-called 14 Words: "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.") According to Lane, Wotansvolk is the incarnation of WOTAN, or the Will Of The Aryan Nation, a "spirit" through which Aryans will awaken to what Lane describes as "the racial imperative" or the preservation of the white race. Much like Asatru, Wotansvolk adherents worship the gods and goddesses of Norse mythology and hold their ancestors in high reverence. Both share the same ritual celebrations and make use of the same texts, such as Havamal (a summary of the virtues of Asatru). Wotansvolk, unlike Asatru, glorifies what it holds to be the cultural supremacy of white Germanic and Norse ancestors, whom it regards as the builders of "the greatest civilizations ever to exist." Wotansvolk advocates further believe their white culture and heritage are being wiped out by racial integration.

[Laisrean]

I heard somewhere a long time ago that some neo-pagans were sent to concentration camps just like Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, etc.

[ValD]

I heard somewhere a long time ago that some neo-pagans were sent to concentration camps just like Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, etc.
There weren't any "neo-pagans" back then.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Victims):
The victims of the Holocaust were Jews, Polish, Russian, Communists, homosexuals, Roma (also known as gypsies), the mentally ill and the physically disabled, intelligentsia and political activists, Jehovah's Witnesses, some Catholic and Protestant clergy, trade unionists, psychiatric patients, some Africans, common criminals and people labeled as "enemies of the state".
Pretty well everybody the Nazis didn't like, really.

[David19]

There weren't any "neo-pagans" back then.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Victims):

Pretty well everybody the Nazis didn't like, really.


Thanks for some of the replies, i kind of knew that it wasn't really wicca, but neo-nazis are idiots so they'll say anything (just look at the crap www.666blacksun.com has).

BTW, I agree with you about them sending nearly everybody to the concentration camps, since while i've been doing my essay, it seems there was no on that they liked.

[Kestrel Firesong]

Wow, if the bright red bold text and black background weren't so offensive to my brain, I might have actually gotten through reading the first page.

[Cain]

Hah, those guys are begging to be jaked. Neo-nazis = teh stoopid of the stupid.

[Heidulf_et_Vitki]

Here is a site that,if any question about anything involving Asatru may be contacted.


Heathens against hate


http://home.earthlink.net/~wodensharrow/hah.html

[Derestanne]

There is an author named William Henry who has extensively researched the Hitler / Nazi Occult History. The Order of The Black Sun, according to Henry, had beginnings when Hitler sent some SS Members to Tibet looking for Occult ways to empower the Third Reich.

Henry has been a guest on Whitley Strieber's "Dreamland" Internet Radio Program. His books are available at the same site: www.unknowncountry.com

[Toby Stimpson]

Well the Third reich connection with the Occult is renound. It was a tactic of empowering themselves with the belief that they themselves could control nature. ofcourse they did hunt down Occultists, and they sent them to prison or concentration camps. I know there was a movement to take the legend of Atlantis and twist it to some kind of "pure aryan origin story...' its strange that the only pure 'Aryans' left alive are the Indians in india...ofcourse don't tell NeoNazis this, theyd flip gah. lol.

Namaste

Tobias

[Faelon_Moon_Hawk]

Hitler subscribed to a magazine called ,,Ostara,but dont hold me to that,I read about it online.I never heard that before,till recently researching my Anglo Saxon name.

Hitler and his cronies were waaay into the occult. There's really interesting documentary on occultism and the nazi party...they show it on the history channel everyonce and a while. I can't remeber what it's called...third reich(sp?) and the occult or something like that...^^;; Basically it tells how Hitler took a bunch of stuff from germanic lore from mythology and symbols and kinda created a new religion, the religion of the nazi party, with him at the top of it. talks about some of their rituals like the ritual of the blood flag which was a flag that hilter and company had when he first tried his coup and some of his troups died, and this flag got their blood on it. The men who died became almost saint like figures, and this flag was used in ceremony to consecrate all the other nazi flags.

[Cain]

Hitler himself wasnt that interested in any religion unless it was a tool for power, as I remember correctly. He hated Christianity because he held a Nietzschean view that it bred slaves and so he invented some new churches. I believe Alfred Rosenburg ran one of those more mystical ones, but it wasn't very popular....as for the secret societies, its hard to say who is using who and for what purpose, what is inferred and what may have happened are two different things...

[Magic Friday]

From what I understand, there is a neo-nazi following within the asatru/odinism camp. This is not a reflection of that branch of paganism as a whole, its just that its not uncommon for neo-nazis to identify themselves with odinism. I think a lot of this has to do with the hitler/occultism connection.

This trend is common within the black-metal movement, especially amongst those who idolize some of the idiots like Varg Vikernes.

[David19]

It's actually true that he hated Christianity (a lot of Nazis saw it as a 'Jewish conspiracy') and he supported a movement called German Christians who wanted to purge christianity of all its Jewish elements (which is dumb, since the main guy is Jewish).

Also i think Rosenberg intended really hated Christianity and wanted to revive the worship of Wotan (i'm not too sure if that's the same god as Odin) but it didn't take off and Hitler had no intention of doing it.

I also heard that there were (& i think still are) a few occult groups in Germany who influenced him since they were anti-Semitic.

[Jimbo]

Hello I stumbled upon this post. . . I've read the works of Ron McVan and David Lane, specifically Deceived, Damned and Defiant as well as Creed of Iron and Temple of Wotan. I found them to be no more offensive or out of line than any of Stephen Flowers or Ed Fitch's writings. They hold much more of a contemperory concern, that is politically, than some of the more exploratory authors of the religion. I found many of their viewpoints to be highly salient, lucid, and well researched, but I found many of their viewpoints and stances to be somewhat reactionary, and some of the revolutionary activities of the authors give one cause for contemplation. Mr. Lane offers several times for the reader to call his wish to preserve his (our) culture "hatred" and many times counters with his reasoning why it is in fact not. As for the Anti Defamation League, their motives are financial, and they, unlike Mr. Lane, have no desire to see White's identify with themselves as a family, community, or nation. They are quite willing to apply the blanket moniker of "hater" to anyone and anything, including a religion.
I was drawn to the writings by my desire to explore European culture and to provide more of a healthy atmosphere for my children to be raised in than with Christianity. The assertions of the Wotansvolk philosophy that "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children" does not go against that desire in any way. Am I Wotansvolk? I need a label as much as any of you, but I do find myself agreeing with much of the philosophy.
Anyway, I would suggest that those who are interested in the Odinist lifestyle pick up copies of the books I mentioned, to add to your library. It's easy to dismiss people if you haven't taken the time out to listen to them. It took me a long time to dismiss the Church, and you better believe I had to listen to it day in and day out for decades, just like the rest of you. Anyway, thanks, peace and good luck.

James

[Philosophia]

Is this the same David Lane here?
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/lane.asp?xpicked=2&item=lane

[lightdragon]

I also heard that there were (& i think still are) a few occult groups in Germany who influenced him since they were anti-Semitic.

first up. two of Hitler's great grandparents were JEWISH. One was a his mother's mother's mother. this is one aspect where a lot of Jews and white supremists do not like hearing.

second as my former college professor stated:Hitler was the biggest @sskisser in history. The people in Germany(or at least most of them. And also why Germany has very tough anti-nazi laws today.) hated the Jews but were afraid to say so. so Hitler volunteered. Because why would someone of Jewish heritage order such a thing. answer is power. the occult tracking and the Wagner papers of the Aryan nation were additions.

[CelticMoon11]

Im suprised theres no "Klu Klux Koven" yet :lol:

[arianrhods_daughter]

Maybe there is? :lol: I wouldn't put it past some people unfortunately..

[Meabh23]

Hitler himself wasnt that interested in any religion unless it was a tool for power, as I remember correctly. He hated Christianity because he held a Nietzschean view that it bred slaves and so he invented some new churches. I believe Alfred Rosenburg ran one of those more mystical ones, but it wasn't very popular....as for the secret societies, its hard to say who is using who and for what purpose, what is inferred and what may have happened are two different things...


Actually, that is not correct.

Hitler didn't hate Christianity. The whole idea of the "slave religion" is actually an old Roman slur and has nothing to do with Hitler except according to some bad historians who never even took the time to research. (It's easy to write a book of conjecture and have people believe it.)

Hitler himself was an ardent Christian. Have you ever read "Mein Kampf". The book depicts his life as a sort of cultural struggle between Christianity and the forces of evil. In all of his writings he alluded to Jesus Christ as his Lord. So to say that he wasn't religious or that he just used it for political reasons is to be shortsighted. The point is that Hitler was a religious fundamentalist from the German Aryan Christian variety (i.e. the Aryan Christians believed that Jesus could not have been literally Jewish). "Mein Kampf" spells out his ideology, loves, religion, and plans. Too bad no one took it seriously, or too bad most of Europe at the time of Hitler's rise actually was enthralled by his poison.

Hitler himself was against any occultism and he despised secret societies, including those of the Thule and other groups like the OTO and even the German Pagans. He wrote against what he saw as ineffectual heathens and thin blooded "masons". To Hitler, Christianity was the German and Aryan religion and no other. He chastised a couple of his council for trying to revive Norse Paganism which he felt was a weak religion.

[Meabh23]

It's actually true that he hated Christianity (a lot of Nazis saw it as a 'Jewish conspiracy') and he supported a movement called German Christians who wanted to purge christianity of all its Jewish elements (which is dumb, since the main guy is Jewish).

Also i think Rosenberg intended really hated Christianity and wanted to revive the worship of Wotan (i'm not too sure if that's the same god as Odin) but it didn't take off and Hitler had no intention of doing it.

I also heard that there were (& i think still are) a few occult groups in Germany who influenced him since they were anti-Semitic.

As I said in the previous post.....

Hitler's brand of Christianity was Aryan Christian. You are right, they belived that Christians had nothing to do with Judaism. But you are wrong in seeing it as an aberration. Since St Paul, Christians were doing that. Hitler actually was inspired by the works and the life of Martin Luther (who wrote a text called "On the Jews and Their Lies")....Yes. That's the same Martin Luther that people consider a hero (even though he was a proto-Nazi.)

[elfmage]

Just a point, but there is actually a difference between White Supremacy, and Anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is just targeting Jews, White Supremacy tends to be a more encompassing worldview that sees the Caucasian race as being inherently superior to others.

[David19]

first up. two of Hitler's great grandparents were JEWISH. One was a his mother's mother's mother. this is one aspect where a lot of Jews and white supremists do not like hearing.

second as my former college professor stated:Hitler was the biggest @sskisser in history. The people in Germany(or at least most of them. And also why Germany has very tough anti-nazi laws today.) hated the Jews but were afraid to say so. so Hitler volunteered. Because why would someone of Jewish heritage order such a thing. answer is power. the occult tracking and the Wagner papers of the Aryan nation were additions.

I thought i'd say that i've also heard that Hitler's grandparent's were Jewish, but when i asked my Holocaust lecturer, he said they weren't, (and he's been studying it for ages), so it was probably just brought up by historians who didn't do any research (or perhaps wanted to make an 'excuse' for the Holocaust).

It also makes me laugh that German's (in the 1930's and before WW2) hated the Jews, even though, apparantly, they were the ones who helped the economy a lot (there were a few Jews who were bankers, as that was the only job available to them, and also was used against them by Hitler).

Also, Hitler didn't 'volunteer' to persecute the Jews, he used the Jew's as a scapegoat for Germany's 'problems' (using pre-existing anti-Semitism), he was anti-Semitic a long time before he controlled Germany - he blamed them for Germany losing WW1, when he was a 'artist' in Vienna, apparantly, someone told him that the Jew's 'controled the world' and suddenly, it all 'made sense' to Hitler (even though Jew's were his biggest supporters of his art, i think).

Anyway, just wanted to say that.

[lightdragon]

I thought i'd say that i've also heard that Hitler's grandparent's were Jewish, but when i asked my Holocaust lecturer, he said they weren't, (and he's been studying it for ages), so it was probably just brought up by historians who didn't do any research (or perhaps wanted to make an 'excuse' for the Holocaust).

.
The whole thing whether Hitler had jewish heirtage is a big debate. That i know offhand And the rest of what you said i don`t want to get into because usually don`t care for these sort of topics too much. if had time i would reseach this and talk to you more about this. But thanks for the info.

[Little Billy]

I found this site when i was doing research for my holocaust essay http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/wicca1.htm and it mentions something called Wotansvolk, which apparantly is neo-nazi wiccan thing, from what i could find, has anyone heard of this tradition and, if you have, what do you think of them, i think they are probably idiots.

BTW, just in case your wondering, the site isn't a neo-nazi one, it just talks about it.

Anyway what are your thoughts.


Frankly, I have no interest in Nazis of ANY kind, except on those joyous occasions when I can make their lives as unpleasant as possible.

I have ZERO respect for ANY belief they may put forth, and find them fit only for derision and ridicule.

Note that this doesn't mean I have anything against Wiccans...just Nazis. ANY Nazis. They are scum.

[Jimbo]

Frankly, I have no interest in Nazis of ANY kind, except on those joyous occasions when I can make their lives as unpleasant as possible.

I have ZERO respect for ANY belief they may put forth, and find them fit only for derision and ridicule.

Note that this doesn't mean I have anything against Wiccans...just Nazis. ANY Nazis. They are scum.

You bring forth a great lesson in tolerance. . .

[David19]

You bring forth a great lesson in tolerance. . .

I agree with LittleBilly, neo-nazi's aren't to be tolerated, and not all things are e.g. neo-nazi's, other bigots like homophobe's, pediphile's, etc.

Besides, it's not like neo-nazi's tolerate people (e.g. i doubt if neo-nazi's suddenly took control of America, Jew's or LGBT people or any others would be tolerated).

[Little Billy]

You bring forth a great lesson in tolerance. . .

Tolerating Nazis is no virtue.

[Little Billy]

I agree with LittleBilly, neo-nazi's aren't to be tolerated, and not all things are e.g. neo-nazi's, other bigots like homophobe's, pediphile's, etc.


Well, we DO have to put up with the Neo-Nazis...they have the same constitutional protections you and I do.

That doesn't mean we can't exercise our own rights to taunt them at every possible opportunity.

But tolerating? No. As I said before, tolerating Nazis is no virtue. I had a Nazi for a neighbor once, and I did everything I could to express my "esteem" for his viewpoint.

[lightdragon]

I agree with LittleBilly, neo-nazi's aren't to be tolerated, and not all things are e.g. neo-nazi's, other bigots like homophobe's, pediphile's, etc.Like Bush

Besides, it's not like neo-nazi's tolerate people (e.g. i doubt if neo-nazi's suddenly took control of America, Jew's or LGBT people or any others would be tolerated).
So far they didn`t but Bush did.