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Derestanne
January 23rd, 2006, 04:22 PM
Hello Everyone,

I am writing this story to serve as an important warning to each of you to be on the alert if changes in your behavior or that of someone close to you should begin to occur.

I must insist that the story that I am about to relate is an actual recent personal experience from my professional "journal". It is completely factual and true to the best of my knowledge. Fictitious names are used to respect the privacy of the individuals involved.

This story begins one morning in early December, 2005. I was preparing for an Astrology Client at a popular Spa in Philadelphia where I have an office. One of the physical therapists (we'll call her "Jane") who worked at the Spa, who is also a personal friend of mine, stopped in to see me. She was clearly very nervous and not at all herself. I could also clearly sense that her Aura was disturbed and out of balance.

Then she made a terrible confession. She told me that she had had a recent encounter with Aliens who had put an implant into her sinus against her will. She further explained that the Aliens told her that they were doing this to her and to others to cause the Human Population on Earth to die prematurely, causing humans to reincarnate more frequently to speed up our rate of spiritual development!

Upon hearing this, as I'm sure all of you can imagine, my mind went into overdrive! I was completely incensed! But the still, calm voice within me prevailed. "Have you discussed this with Scott?", I asked. "Scott" is a psychic healer that Jane had had a positive experience with years earlier. She said no, and I said, "May I suggest you contact him right away".

Jane contacted Scott the same day and Scott was able to effect a long distance disablement of Jane's implant. A few days later I saw Jane again and her personality was almost completely back to normal; but there was still this strange "mechanical" sensation I was getting from her personal Energetic Field. I spoke to Jane and her SO and told them both, "If I were you, I would not assume this incident is over with; I strongly recommend you investigate further and take appropriate action to protect yourself".

Unfortunately, my words turned out prophetic. Unfortunately, the treatment provided by Scott lasted for only a week. After that, Jane experienced worsening behavioral problems that were affecting her performance in the workplace.

Incidentally, to my knowledge, Jane does not have a medical history of psychosomatic or mental disorder and while a physical health problem cannot be ruled out at this writing, I am not qualified to address that aspect of her situation.

I next attempted a hypnotherapy session with Jane to learn what could be done to help her and discover more of the truth of what was happening to her. The session was recorded and the information that came through only revealed a deeper and more troubling picture.

What was most alarming to me was how conflicted she was over her situation. In the hypnotherapy session, I distinctly heard two different "persons" - one that was passively going along with the Alien Agenda for her and another personality that knew the line had been crossed between volunteering and being forced against her will and wanting to be free of the manipulation being done to her.

We discovered much in that preliminary session, including that this particular group of Aliens has been monitoring Jane for years and that she has been abducted on at least 3 separate occasions. Although Jane was able to see possible ways to destroy the implant affecting her body and mind, to my knowledge, she has not been able to take further action.

Finally, this past week, the shovel went straight to the fan. The manager of the Spa, after receiving numerous complaints from customers about Jane's erratic and inattentive behavior, had no choice except to terminate Jane's employment with the Spa.

Being in a strong professional relationship with the Manager of the Spa, I was also told of a dream the Manager had a few days after Jane was let go.

In the dream, Jane was seen taking apart every piece of equipment at the Spa and then Jane sat down on the floor, wrapped in a blanket. Jane appeared aging, wrinkled and near death in the Managers dream.

I was horrified and appalled; my jaw dropped. Then I said to the Manager, "what you saw in your dream is absolutely true; and you know how I hate breaching confidentiality with my Clients but now I feel I must tell you what I know about Jane's condition". And I told the Manager the entire story, about the Alien Implant and the Aliens telling Jane: "you'll be dead by the time you're 60 years old".

I feel this story has only begun. I've searched my soul for days over this entire matter. Looking into my own future, I see myself getting more involved, including warning more people about this matter. I see the same Aliens who are manipulating Jane warning me to stay out of it or suffer the consequences and I see another Group of Aliens also getting more involved to protect me and to counter the harm that the 1st Group is attempting to do.

I certainly will welcome sensitive, responsible and spiritually appropriate reacton to this matter.

Acid09
January 23rd, 2006, 05:46 PM
I wonder if the aliens manufacture meth and run around in black busses doing satanic rituals... Sorry buddy no offense, but be prepared to jump into a fox hole and start gunning down people who think you're lying or crazy, sensitive or not.

Personally I haven't the expertise to give a good answer. I know little about aliens or what people actually think about the real existance of them. But I do know the more evidence you can gather that something is going on, the more likely others are to get involved, regardless of what it is. So my advice would be to search high and low for anything you can use that might get others involved, professional or personal just get others involved as much as possible and safty will warrent. Don't do anything crazy or stupid yourself. And don't buy other people's claims with out serious evidence.

If lots of this has been going on in dreams I'd maybe post these in the dreaming section to get unbias interpretations on them. You might also consider confronting these aliens in your dreams to probe them for additional information. Thats just me though.

Janus109
January 23rd, 2006, 07:29 PM
I would suggest that you post your experience on a board that has a lot of people who are very knowlegeable about UFO's, ET's, abductions and such and see what they say about it.

Try Whitley Strieber's site at www.unknowncountry.com

I think it's very well known that the Powers That Be are very interested in population control measures. In my area there are a lot of "chemtrails" with various patterns in the sky..it makes me wonder sometimes.

Derestanne
January 23rd, 2006, 08:26 PM
Your above responses are appreciated.

I am 52 years old and I've been dealing with this entire subject since about 1982. In 1984 I self-published a book which was full of ET related information and experiences. I know that I don't know everything but I know a great deal and I'm learning more continually. I've been on Radio Stations in 3 States discussing the Alien issue. I am certainly not as well known as Art Bell, Whitley Strieber, Linda Howe and dozens of other researchers but I've got some serious experience under my belt.

I believe it is only a matter of time before members and visitors to MW have some level of alien experience of their own. Dr. J Alan Hynek, who, when he was alive was considered a world authority on UFO's and Aliens stated his belief that at least 1 of every 50 people has had a close encounter. Today, I suspect that number now stands at 1 of 25 or greater odds.

I don't want the Story in this Thread to negatively put people off to Alien contact but in my own experience it is exactly as Whitley Strieber and others have written. Stanton Friedman and others believe there are over 130 separate Alien Races visiting or monitoring this Earth and their agenda's are diverse indeed! I am a strong advocate of education. If you don't know what's going on, you're in the dark and that is a really dangerous place to be in; therefore I share my experiences.

MysticWitch
January 23rd, 2006, 08:40 PM
I had a "visitor" once when I was a young child. I havent seen them since and hope to never see them. I was not abducted. Only watched. I do believe that she might have seen them and etc, I dont think she will die by the time she is 60 and if she does it wont be the aliens fault :hahugh:

wolf
January 23rd, 2006, 08:44 PM
With all due respect ... Jane needs Risperdal, not Reiki.

Anubis
January 24th, 2006, 01:45 PM
I have a question for you.. which I don't know if you know the answer to or not.. Has "Jane" ever had her head examined?.. And I am not trying to make a joke of this.. I mean, litterally examined for any sign of an implant? And if so,.. what was the finding & course of action?

Valnorran
January 24th, 2006, 02:10 PM
I should think a simple X ray or MRI should settle the question of whether or not there's an implant. If there is, have it removed. If there isn't, I respectfully submit that Jane's problems are coming from her own inner space rather than outer space.

Derestanne
January 24th, 2006, 03:46 PM
Once again, like minds think alike.

I was away from the computer while Anubis and Valnorran's messages were happening (which by the way both suggest to go looking for the implant)....

....and suddenly I thought to myself, Jane needs to get an X-ray and see if someone can locate the damn thing. So thanks for the telepathic heads up, guys! Your thoughts came into my thoughts loud and clear!

Just one small problem to bear in mind. Think about the advanced nano-technology that is happening right now. We're hearing about micro chips so tiny they can be injected into the bloodstream. One of my own Clients is a sponsor for a foreign corporation that may have just made a medical breakthrough utilizing nano-technology.

Now, if Aliens exist at all, and if their mentality is even a small cut above ours, then they probably have developed a technology superior to our own.

For the record, I do not see myself as Jane's personal savior but I also cannot sit on the sidelines while nasty situations like these are taking place. Presently, I have a game plan to try and assist Jane which starts on Thursday this week. I'll post back with any developments.

Again, your comments are valued and appreciated.

wolf
January 24th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Now, how did I know that there was going to be some reason that you couldn't establish physical evidence?

(I've also heard things like MRI's cause the implants to disintigrate, implants are transparent to x-ray, implants are placed so that CT scan "slices" miss seeing it, etc., etc., etc.)


Changed my mind ... Haldol, not Risperdal.

semi
January 26th, 2006, 07:53 PM
If the implant can't be detected by x-rays or MRI's, go to a reputable shaman. If you can't find a reputable shaman, let me know and I'll put you in touch with some. If the shaman can't find it, go to a reputable psychiatric professional and try to follow Wolf's advice.

Derestanne
January 27th, 2006, 10:51 PM
An Update:

I met with Jane and her Significant Other yesterday, January 26th. They both thanked me for my assistance and concern. Jane told me she went to a meditation "healing circle" earlier in the week. She was calm, very focused and self assertive which I believe were all good signs. She has not sought out a medical professional and I rather wish that she would. I spoke of physical health concerns and repeated that seeing a qualified health care professional and to consider having an X-ray or MRI scan might be in order.

We talked about the entire matter for a few hours and socialized. Jane expressed concern for her spiritual development and the nature of her relationship with the Aliens. She said that she does not feel threatened at the present time.

She did talk a great deal about what her entire experience means in terms of her life purpose and her work and responsibility here on Earth.

I repeated that I was willing to help them contact experts such as Dr. Roger Leir and I was going to continue my own research with books, media and the Internet. They asked me to tell them if I learn anything of importance and meanwhile Jane is trying to decide exactly what she wants to do next.

I have posted this story to other Websites created to address Alien Issues. There is no consensus about this incident right now and opinions vary a great deal.

And I am keeping my own mind open until I am able to learn more.

Carickah
February 14th, 2006, 07:34 AM
While my own jury is still out on the whole ET/Greys vs Reds vs. Blues/Roswell thing, I have to say that this has a striking similarity to an episode of X-files...

For the record, let me say that I have every belief that the governments of the world actively cover up UFO related issues, I do not have, nor do I ever expect to have enough evidence to decern whether those UFOs are of Extra-Terrestrial or Very Terrestrial origins....

Not that it really adds much to this thread except my own healthy dose of skeptisism, but that is my 2/100s worth.


k

Little Billy
February 14th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Then she made a terrible confession. She told me that she had had a recent encounter with Aliens who had put an implant into her sinus against her will. She further explained that the Aliens told her that they were doing this to her and to others to cause the Human Population on Earth to die prematurely, causing humans to reincarnate more frequently to speed up our rate of spiritual development!


Ho ho! If that's what they WANTED her to believe, just think of what they are ACTUALLY doing.

LB,
Knows that the only good alien is a crashed alien.

Acid09
February 16th, 2006, 07:15 PM
While my own jury is still out on the whole ET/Greys vs Reds vs. Blues/Roswell thing, I have to say that this has a striking similarity to an episode of X-files...
There was one episode where Skully found that everybody had a genetic tag in planted in their arm. The agents had proof of ET and the shadow government/syndicit mannaged to nab it before they could go public. Whats interesting to note is an annomilus small portion of Einstine's brain. No bigger than pin head, it could possibly explain his eccentric genius and if I remember correctly it was even in an area of the brain responsible for crittical thinking. Perhaps only a fluke of nature but what if? It could possibly be the only evidence widely known that could proove alien implants not only exist but are genetic in nature and function, not mechanical. What I really think is going on is that some force in this world, extra or terrafirma, is tayloring the human race to accomplish their own agenda. Since what ever force it is that could be doing this is obviously not going to tell us I don't think their agenda could be good.

Now I believe this because of the very existance of us as human beings. Never in all of all the life in the whole history of the world is there any evidence of a species like us or comperable to us. Basically give a land monkey that would die off on its own in several thousand years prehencil thumbs and a modified brain of a dolphine. Tweek the genome to produce imagination, awareness and logic and what evolves from it is mankind. This would require some serious genetic know how. Now approaching the apex of our evolutionairy intellect we are being taylored to become something else. Look at all the steroids and chemicals, preservatives and other crap we ingest every day. Look at how fast kids are growing up and maturing. The progress of technology has never in all of history taken so many leaps and bounds. Now maybe that is a testiment to human ingenuity. But how can we proove inventors of new technologies didn't have a little help? Especially if its genetic? Our genetics are the back bone of our existance and could have been pre-ordained by some otherworldly force to emerge into the creatures we are. Like code in a computer our bodies like hardware shaping the world, our genes are mechanically reaching towards something unkown. Whats scary is that in 20 years an AI, something plasuibly capable of controlling every aspect of life, is emerging if not already being built. Perhpas the final evolution of us as humans will be ascention into digital life forms. God -our creator- is probably an Alien. But don't worship him because that is insane. Finally why I believe something big is about to happen is the eminence of a global dominion. This implies to me some group is acting as a shadow government, kinda like off the x-files, to systematically bring the human race under the foot of some greater force(s). Alien or not we won't know until it actually happens. And when it does I doubt there will be much we can do.

I doubt invasion is 'their' intention, whoever they are, because that just doesn't make sense. Why invade? That would be so unnecessary. And if aliens did create us, why conquor their own creation? If some alternitive force is trying to usurp an other alien's creation then we should have a power on our side. Unless they sold us off like merchandise. Then I don't think they want to kill us off, at least not yet, because if that were the case their vastly superior understanding of the genome would give them keys to a genetic plague that could have been implimented long long ago. Such a plague spread on all corners of globe could plausibly kill off the human race. Or at least drive the survivors under ground. No I think the most logical solution, that I can conjure assuming aliens are responsible for the creation and manipulation of our species, we are part of some kind of experiment. The agenda of the experiment is unknown. I suppose if telling us would ruin their project that would leave room for the agenda to actually turn out benefical to both us and them. Who ever they are. Perhaps as digital, even holographic, life forms we would be free from the pains of physical life.

Ultimately our only weapons for self defense are hope and awareness.

Derestanne
February 16th, 2006, 09:05 PM
Perhpas the final evolution of us as humans will be ascention into digital life forms.

I'll bet that Star Trek: The Motion Picture (#1 in the series) made quite an impression on you. Have you watched it more than a dozen times, as I have?

For those who have not seen it, this is exactly the scenario of ST #1; a machine alien civilization is looking for "The Creator" and thinks that God must also be a vast digital intelligence.


Ultimately our only weapons for self defense are hope and awareness.

This is exactly why I started this Thread; to raise awareness!

If Stanton Friedman, Whitley Strieber and a host of other Researchers and Contactees have it right, our Earthly Civilization is being visited or watched by about 130 separate alien civilizations right now, each with its own values and agendas. We need a big "scorecard" just to keep up with everything that has happened in history and what is going on today.

One of the most important questions I am continuing to work on is: Why do some people have Close Encounters of the Horrible Kind while others have Close Encounters of the Wonderful Kind and still others have No Encounters of No Kind?

I think the answer to this one is worth about 6 million dollars.

Pol
February 16th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Second paragraph, sinus trouble, I thought 'hey! The X-files! I know that episode!'
But then I realised, I'm not sure if that happened both in the X-Files and Taken or just in Taken.
Either way, I'm a huuuge fan of The X-Files, even an X-Phile, and that was a good read! A+ :fpartyman

Faery-Wings
February 17th, 2006, 09:21 AM
Oh gods, do you rmeber that sceene from Taken when they removed that implant from his head? ICK!

Acid09
February 17th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Well I've seen every episode of the X-files like at least three or four times probably more. (mind expanding to sit down with smot and a bottle of ta-kill-ya and zone out to the marathon they play every week.)
I'm sure I've seen star trek, but it was a little before my time and doesn't really interest me. I have seen all three of the next generation moives. And I do watch an episode here and there. Taken, never really got into. I saw a couple episodes and got the gist of the story but it just didn't rub me right. Futurama? Now thats something I can relate to... And too much discovery, history and sci-fi channel.

However last night I got to thinking about a couple things (I'm really good at compulsive thinking) and I realized something I might have been quick to judge. Perhaps a genetic plague is in our midst. With the use of bird migrations avian flue will eventually be everywhere on the surface of the globe. This made me consider what the agenda "they" might have - genetic pruning. The weaker genes die out because of AIDs, Flue, mallaria and now Avian flue, possibly the real hedge cutter. Avian flue most likely won't kill every person off. And the survivors will be of the superior breed. I'll use AIDS as an example - about one percent of the population is immune to it, so it would seem at least. There is the theories of panspermia and exogenesis suggesting life originated from space or beyond. If so various viruses may have orignated from beyond as well. So if the use of such diseases is to make sure only certain human genes carry on one could speculate about "their" agenda, at least partially. Manufacturing a superior human race(s) as they could be mixing and mingling us as they please is what it would seem is happening. The great melting pot of America would an example. Never before has there been such a great interbreeding of ethnic groups. They could be putting together a superior human being. For what I could not be sure maybe they just want a race thats more conscience of the environment or super soldiers the contrast between fiction and reallity is enormous here. The reason I mentioned "races" is because they could be making new species to survive in specific climates, possibly even on other worlds. Differing races could also become specialized and perform certain tasks a growing populus would need.

Then I also remembered (I think a lot) why they might not want to give us their agenda. They are not Gods and don't want to be worshipped as such. Simply coming down saying "Take me to your leader" and telling the human race the purpose of our existance as well as our complete history (perhaps segments in our genome are alien) would start up a following. There would be people who would see ET, the creator, as God and worship him as such, ruining their project by subverting our reason with dogma. Because once we *know* their is no taking it back we, under the alien controled experimentation idea, would become "tainted" and possibly need to be exterminated. So this suggests maybe its best we don't know the truth until the time is right.

ValD
February 17th, 2006, 04:18 PM
However last night I got to thinking about a couple things (I'm really good at compulsive thinking) and I realized something I might have been quick to judge. Perhaps a genetic plague is in our midst. With the use of bird migrations avian flue will eventually be everywhere on the surface of the globe. This made me consider what the agenda "they" might have - genetic pruning. The weaker genes die out because of AIDs, Flue, mallaria and now Avian flue, possibly the real hedge cutter. Avian flue most likely won't kill every person off. And the survivors will be of the superior breed.
If so, THEY (whoever THEY are) don't seem to be going about it very intelligently.
First off, malaria isn't new - it's been with us ever since the mosquito evolved, probably. So long, in fact, that many Africans actually developed a genetic defense against it - sickle cell anaemia. Yup, that's right - if you have sickle cell, you'll never die from malaria.
Then there's flu. In 1918-20, we had the Spanish flu epidemic, that killed an estimated 5% of the world's population. I doubt that Avian flu will ever get that bad - medicine has come a long way since 1920.
Anyway, before Spanish Flu, we had all sorts of epidemics - Black Death, Bubonic Plague etc. The human race survived all that; did it really make us "stronger" (whatever that means)?
Then there's AIDs. Yes, it's killed lots of people. But many more are now survivng and healthy and passing on their "weak" genes, thanks to anti-retroviral drugs.
Now, why aren't THEY aware that our medical reserch capabilities can respond pretty effectively to any infectious disease nowadays?

Winter_wolf
February 17th, 2006, 10:47 PM
I'd have to think that if they managed to master space travel they could vaporize us on a whim... I seriously doubt they'd bother with random plagues that we have dealt with through out the centuries to off us. Intersteller travel easy? but offing a bunch of primatives difficult? I somehow don't buy that. I do believe that aliens do exist but I don't believe they are trying to kill us... if anything they are probably laughing at the fact we will kill each other over cartoons...

mayu
February 18th, 2006, 06:49 PM
I have read a lot on this subject.

Firstly it strikes me as very odd that the aliens have told jane what they are doing, they never do this, to them we are lab rats, so to have communicated to her what they are doing is very odd.

secondly how did she discover she was being abducted? people usually dont realise untill a number of events persuade them to go and see a hypnotists or a spiritualist, or they have very, very vivid dreams.

i have read about people behaviour altering quite dramatically, one woman was told to only eat cow! she couldnt physically eat anything else, i think janes change in behaviour was a result of beliving she had been abducted and told this information.

or she may just be a bit confused, its amazing what people will do for attention. i really hope its this one.

there is something very odd going on here though i will grant you that.

the best book i ever read to do with alien abduction was called close encounters of the fourth kind by A Mack of the institute of massetusis (sorry if i spelt that wrong) its a comprehensive study of all forms of abduction and peoples perseptions of them.

you may find some usefull info in that.:hahugh:

MockingbirdOxygen
February 18th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Interesting. I personally believe that if we ourselves exist here, anything is possible... the awareness and higher consciousness thing will come about in its own time, I suppose... you cannot convince people, they can only learn for themselves as they go, too, I guess-

I'm wondering if you've ever read "I am me, I am free" by David Icke... also another book I just got last night called "The Genesis Race" by Will Hart... it might be of interest to you.
:hugz:

misschief
February 18th, 2006, 07:29 PM
interesting..

Derestanne
February 19th, 2006, 12:11 AM
The more posts and comments I read, the happier I am that we are on this Subject.

Now I would like to share another true story. Beginning about 1981 I was working with a group of psychics who believed they were channeling messages from "Space Beings". One thing led to another and soon I was corresponding with people all over the US (mostly California) who were involved at one level or another with the Alien Question. I also went through alot of books, audio tapes and other publications.

In the fall of 1982, I attended my first Pagan Solstice Gathering, which was held at an old communal farm near York, Pennsylvania. That gathering remains one of the most treasured spiritual experiences of my life. Now most all of the Pagans that I met at that gathering found the subject of Aliens to be largely irrevelant to their values and beliefs; they had no interest at that time. But there was one exception, a woman named Sri Govindananda whose interests included Egyptian Magick, Hindu Paganism - and Aliens.

When I asked Sri G. why she was interested in discussing the Aliens with me (and no one else was), she replied, "because I am not native to this Planet; another woman had this body before I did; I am a walk in!". (For those who don't know "walk in" - a walk in is when someone takes over the physical body and incarnation of another. This is common in near death and attempted suicide situations).

Long story made short, Sri G. and I became friends and she assisted in the research and publication of my first book, which included interviews with people who were involved with the Alien Question. Of course, in the years to follow, I saw more people (including Pagans) embrace the Alien Question often because of an experience that they or family or friends had; the roots of which experiences seemed to extend - into outer space!

As for the latest comments here, from Kardell:


Firstly it strikes me as very odd that the aliens have told jane what they are doing, they never do this, to them we are lab rats, so to have communicated to her what they are doing is very odd.

I suggest you read the Betty and Barney Hill story, among others. The Aliens don't state intentions often, but it has happened a number of times.


secondly how did she discover she was being abducted? people usually dont realise untill a number of events persuade them to go and see a hypnotists or a spiritualist, or they have very, very vivid dreams.

Not only did "they" leave Jane's memory intact, I actually think they wanted her to remember her experience. When she woke up the next morning she had near total recall!

Then, when I did a hypnotherapy session with her, she experienced the same thing all over again, with additional details. All that I did was tell her to mentally return to the date that she gave me. I said nothing to her about "her abduction experience". Before she even finished the number countdown to the date in time, she started shaking and crying.
The hypnotic recall was so intense, at one point I was ready to abort the session. But she assured me she wanted to continue to understand what happened to her.


there is something very odd going on here though i will grant you that.

If I thought for one second that I was being hoaxed and this was all a fake, I certainly would not have started this Thread.

On your book suggestion, do you mean A. Mack of MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)?

AuntBooPeaceFrog, I am very familiar with David Icke. He claims the Alien Conspiracy is International in Scope and involves most all Heads of State and Corporate Membership. David Icke could be dismissed as a fantastic lunatic except for one important thing; there is a small army of Scientists and former Military people who agree with him and have provided supporting testimony of their own.

There is a great deal of the Alien Story that is so horrific and grim that it makes the Dark Empire of Star Wars look like a bunch of stoned space hippies. If a fraction of what I have read and heard is true, entire galaxies have been vaporized in times past in Intergalactic Wars of totally inconceivable destruction.

I prefer to focus on the more positive communications from the Pleiadians through Barbara Marciniak and Billy Meier. A sample of those messages:

Many people on Earth have felt that they have merged with God. They may have merged with a portion of Prime Creator that best suited their vibration at the time. The total vibration of Prime Creator would destroy the physical vehicle in an instant, because it cannot house that much information. Those that represent "God" to you are but a minute portion of Prime Creator...Even Prime Creator is but a portion of something larger. Prime Creator is always discovering that it is a child of another creation and that it is in a constant process of self-discovery and awareness. Remember, consciousness is within all things, and consciousness was never invented, it simply was. Consciousness is knowing, and your knowing is your closest place to Prime Creator. When you trust what you know, you are activating the God within you".

Little Billy
February 19th, 2006, 03:02 PM
If so, THEY (whoever THEY are) don't seem to be going about it very intelligently.


Of course. THEY build the kind of spaceships that crash.

Derestanne
February 19th, 2006, 04:30 PM
From Little Billy,


THEY build the kind of spaceships that crash.

There are a number of people who believe the spaceships were intentionally crashed because certain Alien groups wanted the Government to get their hands on some of their technology. Because the Government has looked upon most everything the Aliens have done with "extreme suspicion" (quoting William Cooper), the Aliens decided to create some convenient accidents to suit their own purposes.

So the powers that be "swallowed the bait" and the rest is now part of history. Make no mistake, the entire history of the Alien Agenda is full of clever manipulation. Some of this manipulation has been a conspiracy against humanity and some has been a conspiracy to aid us.

Little Billy
February 19th, 2006, 04:50 PM
From Little Billy,

.

Some of this manipulation has been a conspiracy against humanity and some has been a conspiracy to aid us.

So the aliens are for us AND against us? They're a confused bunch, I see.

Little Billy
February 19th, 2006, 04:55 PM
When I asked Sri G. why she was interested in discussing the Aliens with me (and no one else was), she replied, "because I am not native to this Planet; another woman had this body before I did; I am a walk in!". (For those who don't know "walk in" - a walk in is when someone takes over the physical body and incarnation of another. This is common in near death and attempted suicide situations).

You hang out with a body-thief?

That's horrible.

mayu
February 19th, 2006, 06:50 PM
On your book suggestion, do you mean A. Mack of MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)?


yep. been a while since i've read it, have gone on to other things.



I suggest you read the Betty and Barney Hill story, among others. The Aliens don't state intentions often, but it has happened a number of times.


I have, and because of all that i have read on this subject i stand firm on this point that they dont want you to know the 'real' truth of what is going on.

You sound as enthusiatic as i did when i first read about all this stuff, hope you sort your friend out.:yayah:

Little Billy
February 19th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Ultimately our only weapons for self defense are hope and awareness.

And a deathray. Or at least a pile of H-bombs.

Fer Chrissakes.

Derestanne
February 19th, 2006, 08:28 PM
From Little Billy,


You hang out with a body-thief? That's horrible.

In my life, she was better company than most of the souls I've met. And walk-in's aren't "body thieves" but I have met plenty of people for whom incarnation was a felony.

And as for, "And a deathray. Or at least a pile of H-bombs".

The reason that Humanity Itself has not succeeded in blowing itself and the Earth to bits is because the Aliens have the technology to deactivate our own Nukes and they have already done this more than once.

Otherwise, our destiny would have been radioactive ash about 25 years ago.

Little Billy
February 19th, 2006, 08:53 PM
From Little Billy,



In my life, she was better company than most of the souls I've met. And walk-in's aren't "body thieves" but I have met plenty of people for whom incarnation was a felony.

And as for, "And a deathray. Or at least a pile of H-bombs".

The reason that Humanity Itself has not succeeded in blowing itself and the Earth to bits is because the Aliens have the technology to deactivate our own Nukes and they have already done this more than once.

Otherwise, our destiny would have been radioactive ash about 25 years ago.

1. Um, that doesn't change the fact that she stole someone's body.

2. How do they do that? Nuclear physics doesn't work for them? And why didn't the inert warheads land anywhere? Lastly, which political events 25 years ago led to someone attempting to use nuclear weapons?

Carickah
February 20th, 2006, 12:38 AM
1. Um, that doesn't change the fact that she stole someone's body.

2. How do they do that? Nuclear physics doesn't work for them? And why didn't the inert warheads land anywhere? Lastly, which political events 25 years ago led to someone attempting to use nuclear weapons?
Likewise, I am wondering what events in 1981 were the near cause of nuclear evaperation of the world... Please explain.


k

Happy Shrew
February 20th, 2006, 11:07 AM
Well, Reagan was in charge...

misschief
February 20th, 2006, 11:14 AM
omg. i wish i wasn't sick.. my sarcasm is trying so hard to get out here.... lol.

Derestanne
February 20th, 2006, 10:33 PM
A bare minimal level of sensitivity regarding Walk-in's would be a reasonable courtesy at this point in the discussion but I am certainly not going to expect any where perhaps none is possible.

READ: A walk in cannot, does not "steal" someone else's body. The entire situation is voluntary for both the walk-in and the previous inhabitant of the body in question.

In the case of my friend Sri Govinananda, the body she "inherited" (not stole) was no prize. After the car accident and the coma, the body was in very poor condition for nearly a year. The original inhabitant of the body simply gave up; she could not handle the suffering anymore. It is much to Sri's credit that she was strong enough to endure months of surgery, pain and therapy. Sri was a warm, cheerful, very curious and profoundly loving individual. If we had more "body snatchers" in the world like her, this Planet would be more hospitable for all.

In fairness, I would like to state for the record that the Walk-In subject is a highly debated topic. Some believe there is no such thing as Walk-In; it is the same person, same soul but a major personality and consciousness shift has taken place.

As an Astrologer, I have studied the walk-in issue and I believe that it is not an open-and-shut case of Planetary Transit = new outlook on life. It remains my belief that Near Death Experiences can indeed cause a transference of individual souls and that such consentual agreements may well be made before the physical incarnation of the body in question.

As to the matter of Nukes and Alien intervention, here I am quoting from a radio interview with Michael Horn, who is a spokesperson for Billy Meier's Group in Switzerland:

"....scienists were going to test a bomb that was called a "chain reaction bomb". We may not have even heard of this officially. They (The Pleiadian's) said that had that bomb been detonated, within 8 minutes, the Planet (Earth) itself would have been incinerated because it would have ignited the very atmosphere of the planet. This would have operated on an atomic level and we would all have been destroyed within 8 minutes.

So they (The Pleiadian's) put an end to that experiment. They have likewise interfered with some other weapons tests. But alot of it they don't (interfere with) because we have the free will to do all sorts of stuff to ourselves. If the planet itself were in threat of being destroyed, such as from a chain reaction bomb, then they interfere in as light a touch way as they can to prevent that from happening....".

Anyone can hear the actual radio program I took this quote from by going to:

http://www.theyfly.com/

When I said "25 years ago", yes I was making a referral to the Reagan Administration. But I was also loosely referring to the numerous moments in history throughout the past 25 years or so where the technology of death that humans possess could have ended in worldwide disaster.

There is other information that individuals have shared with me over the years, some of which was briefly in print, that I simply do not want to repeat here. I am actually concerned that some of what I've seen and heard could potentially get this Website in trouble and I don't want to take the risk.

Derestanne
February 20th, 2006, 11:15 PM
I have a "PS". I just found a fascinating Website dedicated to the Walk-In Issue which contains an interview with a Walk-In named Kelemeria Myarea Elohim.

In additon to claiming to be a Walk-In, Kelemeria also claims she is an Alien who now inhabits a human body. Her interview can be seen at:

http://www.walk-ins.com/stories/kele_1.htm

Little Billy
February 20th, 2006, 11:22 PM
READ: A walk in cannot, does not "steal" someone else's body. The entire situation is voluntary for both the walk-in and the previous inhabitant of the body in question.

There is other information that individuals have shared with me over the years, some of which was briefly in print, that I simply do not want to repeat here. I am actually concerned that some of what I've seen and heard could potentially get this Website in trouble and I don't want to take the risk.

1. Of course, you only have the walk-in's word for that.

2. With whom?

I am not trying to be offensive, just so you know.

Derestanne
February 20th, 2006, 11:56 PM
From Little Billy,


1. Of course, you only have the walk-in's word for that.

2. With whom?

I am not trying to be offensive, just so you know.

1. If all I ever considered was what the walk-in said, I would definitely be one-sided. In the past I've discussed this with many others, including people who have a completely negative view. No, I cannot prove that the previous soul voluntarily surrendered the body, certainly not with mere words on a Post.

2. I don't understand what you mean by "With Whom?".

3. No offense taken; but it is reassuring to hear you say that.

Acid09
February 21st, 2006, 07:46 PM
If so, THEY (whoever THEY are) don't seem to be going about it very intelligently.

We have no proof of Aliens, inter-dimentionals or Jabba the Hut either. A superior intelligence that has been manipulating us, possibly all life, for eons will not be found by us being the inferior test subjects, unless *they* want us to know.

Then there's flu. In 1918-20, we had the Spanish flu epidemic, that killed an estimated 5% of the world's population.
Take into consideration *they* may have intended to kill only five percent of the populus. Killing too many people could possibly cause a bottle neck in our gene pool. Their experiment might be ruined or delayed. Remember 'They', under this theory, are not trying to kill us off, at least yet. Just experiment with our genome for their own agenda.

Now, why aren't THEY aware that our medical reserch capabilities can respond pretty effectively to any infectious disease nowadays?
Well Einstine firstly no they haven't cured aids. They've only learned to stall it. In my opinion those who contract aids, because of ignorance or stupidity, do have the weaker genes but thats just my opinion. We are not all knowing creatures who just whip together a cure all be all. The theory I'm proposing is "they" use such plagues for genetic pruning. You gave perfect examples with the syckle cell anemia preventing molaria. A *genetic* dis-order (an anomily that only affects certain people, almost like test subjects) prevents a certain virus from infecting certain people with those genes.

Sure human intellect has the capacity to over come diseases. The people who have the most intellect or likely to be the ones with the best genes, intellectually anyway. But the weak still die off.

If you give any serious credit to the notion some otherworldly force is manipulting the human race, be "they" from Pluto or the 5th alterior dimention of Zarbot, this idea of using diseases for genetic tayloring is fairly plausible. And it would stay under our radar for detecting "they". Who or whatever THAT is ;)

Little Billy
February 21st, 2006, 09:06 PM
From Little Billy,



1. If all I ever considered was what the walk-in said, I would definitely be one-sided. In the past I've discussed this with many others, including people who have a completely negative view. No, I cannot prove that the previous soul voluntarily surrendered the body, certainly not with mere words on a Post.

2. I don't understand what you mean by "With Whom?".

3. No offense taken; but it is reassuring to hear you say that.


1. Sheesh. I'd be careful, if I were you.

2. With whom will the board get in trouble, if you talk about the rest of this?

3. No sweat.

Derestanne
February 21st, 2006, 10:37 PM
From Little Billy,


With whom will the board get in trouble, if you talk about the rest of this?

I was of course referring to the Powers That Be, the Gov't. here.
This already happened before. But the scuttlebutt conceviably could go farther, to Orion or Sigma Draconis. I'll pass, thank you very much.

wolf
February 21st, 2006, 11:26 PM
Somebody's about a quart low on their haldol.

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 12:25 AM
From Little Billy,



I was of course referring to the Powers That Be, the Gov't. here.
This already happened before. But the scuttlebutt conceviably could go farther, to Orion or Sigma Draconis. I'll pass, thank you very much.

1. Naw. The government will let you rant all you like. They LOVE it when people run around trying to tell The Truth(tm), or otherwise discredit themselves.

2. Who or who?

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 12:26 AM
Somebody's about a quart low on their haldol.

Easy, now.

Do you like it when Pinkboys & Merehumes(tm) jump all over YOUR beliefs?

ValD
February 22nd, 2006, 07:18 AM
In my opinion those who contract aids, because of ignorance or stupidity, do have the weaker genes but thats just my opinion.
:ggrief: I'm very glad that's just your opinion. HIV doesn't care who it infects - stupid, ignorant, brilliant, saintly, innocent, guilty. It could even infect YOU. And how about explaining what you mean by "weak genes"?

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 08:51 AM
Somebody's about a quart low on their haldol.

I'm convinced that Wolf has connections to the Pharmaceutical Industry. Drugs are her answer of choice.

At least this time she picked the same drug supposidly prescribed for the President. Does this mean she considers me presidential material? I hope not, as I remember the joke from one Red Dwarf episode, "....people so low down, mean and deceitful they're not even fit to be president of the United States!". :rollingla

Back to Little Billy,
1. Naw. The government will let you rant all you like. They LOVE it when people run around trying to tell The Truth(tm), or otherwise discredit themselves.

2. Who or who?

I'll say it one more time. When certain information began leaking out about what happened at a certain Military Base where the Aliens claimed responsibility and this was printed, the person who did this got a very unpleasant visit from Gov't people. Same thing has happened to Art Bell and certain other UFO Investigators.

There have been several dozen failed attempts on Billy Meiers life in Switzerland.

Former president Jimmy Carter and over a dozen members of the Leary, Georgia Lions Club witnessed a UFO in Georgia just before Carter became President. Carter described what they saw as "larger and brighter than a full moon". He filed a formal report with the Research Group NICUFO (National Investigations Committee For UFO's). The press asked Carter about this on numerous occasions. For a while he was talking, then he abruptly fell silent on the subject. Many UFO Researchers believe he was told to stop talking to the press.

In 1983, I was on WUOG Radio in Athens, Georgia. And I related the Carter Story, among others. Some people were angry that I was trying to smear Carter. Many Georgians had not heard about this. Finally, one guy called in and said, "it really happened folks, it's the truth; I've got newspaper clips about it".

Who or Who? I'm not going there. Pray to your God (wherever he / she is now) that you never ever cross paths with Orion or Reptilian Agents (gag, gag, barfff!). :fpraise:

If you want to talk about Aliens, let's make it the Pleiadians or the Arcturans or other together souls in the Galactic Federation.

wolf
February 22nd, 2006, 01:36 PM
No, derestanne, I think you are delusional.

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 06:13 PM
Naturally, I disagree with you.

So would many other Investigators and Researchers of the Alien Question.

Sorry, you can put the whole human race on haldol or whatever you like but that isn't going to cause the Alien Question to disappear.

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 06:14 PM
Naturally, I disagree with you.

So would many other Investigators and Researchers of the Alien Question.

Sorry, you can put the whole human race on haldol or whatever you like but that isn't going to cause the Alien Question to disappear.

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 09:33 PM
There have been several dozen failed attempts on Billy Meiers life in Switzerland.


Yep. That was the CIA.




Who or Who? I'm not going there. Pray to your God (wherever he / she is now) that you never ever cross paths with Orion or Reptilian Agents (gag, gag, barfff!). :fpraise:

If you want to talk about Aliens, let's make it the Pleiadians or the Arcturans or other together souls in the Galactic Federation.


I never pray. You never know WHAT is listening.

But I think I could take a reptilian, in a fair fight. If it's the kind that David Icke talks about.

And I think the together ones would be a big let-down (assuming they are what they say they are). I find myself rooting for the bad guys, in this case.

So does "Bob".

http://jakrinda.tripod.com/images/bobandaliens.jpg

Vincent Verthaine
February 22nd, 2006, 09:39 PM
Hey LB,should i should let everyone know that the whole "Alien Question" is just one of the Discordian Societies better pranks?
I have authorization from the "Powers that Be".
Nah,maybe it's best that the rest of the pagans don't know how many of us weren't even born on this planet.:yayah:

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 09:42 PM
Hey LB,should i should let everyone know that the whole "Alien Question" is just one of the Discordian Societies better pranks?
I have authorization from the "Powers that Be".
Nah,maybe it's best that the rest of the pagans don't know how many of us weren't even born on this planet.:yayah:

Myself? I think it's all government generated, to keep people's minds off of the REAL problems.

Hell, if I were in charge, I'd be painting helicopters black as fast as I could.

However, I am more than willing to read Derestanne's beliefs, as they are somewhat new to me, and I'm always willing to look at things from another angle.

And I think you're the only one that wasn't Verthaine. Not all of us can go jumping from universe to universe, you know. :mad:

Happy Shrew
February 22nd, 2006, 09:45 PM
Well, I've read some interesting studies that show that people who claim to have been abducted are cognitively different from the rest of the population. Just not in any way that supports their claims, unfortunately.

(Clancy, S.; McNally, R.; Schacter, D; Lenzenweger, M; Pitman, R. (2002). Memory distortion in people reporting abduction by aliens. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 111, 455-461.)

It's a real shame. It'd be a lot cooler if they were enhanced in some way.

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 09:52 PM
Well, I've read some interesting studies that show that people who claim to have been abducted are cognitively different from the rest of the population. Just not in any way that supports their claims, unfortunately.

(Clancy, S.; McNally, R.; Schacter, D; Lenzenweger, M; Pitman, R. (2002). Memory distortion in people reporting abduction by aliens. Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 111, 455-461.)

It's a real shame. It'd be a lot cooler if they were enhanced in some way.


It would ROCK if they came back in robot bodies. They'd have the strength of FIVE (5) GORILLAS.

[/SL2021]

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 10:37 PM
Little Billy,


There have been several dozen failed attempts on Billy Meiers life in Switzerland.

Yep. That was the CIA. :yayah:

Happy Shrew,


Well, I've read some interesting studies that show that people who claim to have been abducted are cognitively different from the rest of the population. Just not in any way that supports their claims, unfortunately.

And that had been the name of the game - isolate, discredit and shut up anyone who talks, experiences or knows anything about the Alien Question. Academia and Official Psychology has been consistently hostile toward the experiencers. Today however, attitudes in the Scientific and Therapeutic Community are being redefined by the reality and the sheer magnetude of the Alien Influence.

Georgia Crocker, a Hypnotherapist in Baton Rouge, LA states on her website, "In America today there are more than 2 million people who have been abducted by extra-terrestrial beings. Not only do these people suffer from terror of the abduction experience, but they are afraid of ridicule and harrassment from society if their experience becomes known. Regressive hypnosis can help uncover what happened and perhaps explain why, lessening the burden of not knowing.

Quoting Researcher Nick Pope, "In a landmark decision, the National Council for Hypnotherapy (NCH) in the UK has issued a policy statement concerning alien abductions. So far as I am aware, this is the first time that any of the professional bodies representing British hypnotherapists has made an official pronouncement on this issue, let alone issued guidance to its members."

Now if you want to talk about Bud Hopkins, Dr. Roger K. Leir, Deborah Lindemann, C.H.T. or any of the other professionals dedicated to supporting the abductees and experiencers while advancing both science and society I'll be happy to do that.

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 10:42 PM
And that had been the name of the game - isolate, discredit and shut up anyone who talks, experiences or knows anything about the Alien Question.

So lack of evidence is evidence of a cover up?

LB,
Can go along with that.

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 11:05 PM
I think what you are asking is:

What came first? The cover up or the evidence?

Alice in Wonderland analogy notwithstanding, what we are left with is whether or not the US Government, the CIA, the Military, the NSA, MJ-12, etc. would take the trouble to cover up something that isn't even really there to begin with. Which by the way is exactly what they're all saying; no Aliens or UFO's, no coverup, nothing see? Now stop looking and go away, please!

If you say yes, the Gov't, CIA, NSA would do that, then how do we know for certain that there actually isn't something there to cover up?

By the way, I personally don't care if there is a cover up or a conspiracy going on or not. I'm not looking for a cover up or a conspiracy, I'm looking for Aliens and UFO's. And thats just what many folks are finding - Aliens and UFO's - conspiracy or cover up notwithstanding!

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 11:20 PM
Alice in Wonderland analogy notwithstanding, what we are left with is whether or not the US Government, the CIA, the Military, the NSA, MJ-12, etc. would take the trouble to cover up something that isn't even really there to begin with. Which by the way is exactly what they're all saying; no Aliens or UFO's, no coverup, nothing see? Now stop looking and go away, please!


On the other hand, if you wanted to distract the kind of people that ask too many questions, you do a half-assed coverup of nothing, and let them find "clues". Then you ruthlessly repress anybody who gets TOO vocal about the clues.

Then you laugh and jam both hands in the till while they run off chasing UFOs.

Little Billy,
Knows that paranoia is impossible, these days.

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 11:21 PM
And thats just what many folks are finding - Aliens and UFO's - conspiracy or cover up notwithstanding!

Where are they finding them?

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 11:31 PM
From Little Billy,


Where are they finding them?

Would you like to see a list of locations, dates and who saw them?

Little Billy
February 22nd, 2006, 11:34 PM
From Little Billy,



Would you like to see a list of locations, dates and who saw them?

Sure.

Derestanne
February 22nd, 2006, 11:54 PM
For starters, go to the tables in .gif format at the bottom of this Website page:

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/78hall-wave67.htm

Also:

http://www.earthfiles.com/headlines.cfm?category=Archives

I am going to post still better list than this, once I locate them.

wolf
February 23rd, 2006, 12:14 AM
And that had been the name of the game - isolate, discredit and shut up anyone who talks, experiences or knows anything about the Alien Question. Academia and Official Psychology has been consistently hostile toward the experiencers. Today however, attitudes in the Scientific and Therapeutic Community are being redefined by the reality and the sheer magnetude of the Alien Influence.

Diagnosing a mentally ill person with Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder with Psychosis, or Psychotic Disorder is not being "consistently hostile."

I will allow some wiggle room for iatrogenic illness.

wolf
February 23rd, 2006, 12:15 AM
Where are they finding them?

But billy!! Surely you know that lack of proof of a cover up is clear evidence of a cover up! (edit to add: Apparently you already stated this. I belatedly read Post #58)

:tinfoil:

Derestanne
February 23rd, 2006, 12:27 AM
I take back what I said about Wolf. She doesn't have connections with the Pharmaceutical Industry, she has connections with the National Security Agency and the Men In Black!

Whatever her connections are, she knows what she can do with them.

wolf
February 23rd, 2006, 12:30 AM
I just wish I had those kinds of connections. They pay better.

Little Billy
February 23rd, 2006, 12:36 AM
I take back what I said about Wolf. She doesn't have connections with the Pharmaceutical Industry, she has connections with the National Security Agency and the Men In Black!

Whatever her connections are, she knows what she can do with them.


Wow.

eldora_avalon
February 23rd, 2006, 01:32 AM
There are some people sometimes that can mimic the sensations of an abduction by stimulation of the parietal lobe. The sensations of being pulled specifically. That doesn't mean everyone has this sort of thing going on.

Hypnotherapists have an interest in repressed memories, they make money off of them. There was one who convinced all of her female clients that were overweight that they had been abused as children, because that was her belief. Turns out she was planting memories into these women without even trying, at least not consciously. Imagine if a hypnotherapist tried. This doesn't mean that anyone who is hypnotized has implanted memories either.

Until the government is open about everything, which will probably be never, there will always be secrets and there will always be people who don't know what all the secrets are. That also means there will be people who know the secrets, for whatever reason and the government will say they are wrong. or crazy or whatever works. Anyone remember Agent Orange?

eldora_avalon
February 23rd, 2006, 02:16 AM
OK, so I went back through this whole thread. I am sorry for your friend and I hope she feels better whatever may be bothering her. There have been many times in history that people were accused of being crazy because other people couldn't see the truth.

I am kind of surprised that on a forum where people talk freely of faires, elves, dragons and all sorts of other creatures, aliens are taboo and somehow make the poster or her friend crazy. There is a reason I picked fairies and elves. Look at the different myths about little people, these myths are all over the world. There is a lot in common with the stories about aliens.

As for the walkins, I have never heard of them. I know that if someone sustains a severe enough brain injury this can result in a drastic change in personality. We don't know exactly where something like 'personality' or 'soul' or a lot of other terms we could use, we don't know exactly where they are, in the brain or elsewhere. It could be explainable in some cases, or not, we can't explain enough about the brain, we can explain the changes, but we can't explain the soul or where the persoanlity is located.

Happy Shrew
February 23rd, 2006, 08:44 AM
Academia and Official Psychology has been consistently hostile toward the experiencers.

Actually, it's the scientific method that's hostile toward the experiencers, though not through any conscious means. It just doesn't hold its own weight when studied that way.


Today however, attitudes in the Scientific and Therapeutic Community are being redefined by the reality and the sheer magnetude of the Alien Influence.

If this were true, cognitive psychologists everywhere would be salivating at the opportunity to see the effects in action. As it stands, there is a method for creating false memories in the laboratory (nothing shocking, just thinking you saw a word that you didn't) and some people are more likely to create the false memory than others. I'll give you two guesses as to where the experiencers fall on that spectrum.


Georgia Crocker, a Hypnotherapist in Baton Rouge, LA states on her website, "In America today there are more than 2 million people who have been abducted by extra-terrestrial beings. Not only do these people suffer from terror of the abduction experience, but they are afraid of ridicule and harrassment from society if their experience becomes known. Regressive hypnosis can help uncover what happened and perhaps explain why, lessening the burden of not knowing.

The problems with hypnosis have already been touched upon, but I'll cite something for you if you'd like further details:

Scoboria, A.; Mazzoni, G.; Kirsch, I.; Milling, L. (2002). Immediate and persisting effects of misleading questions and hypnosis on memory reports. Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied, 8, 26-32.

The worst part is that a person can develop a false memory and be incredibly confident that it's true. It's a situation that's guaranteed to lead to hurt feelings.

Does this mean all alien memories are false? Heck if I know, but it's an uphill battle for anyone trying to claim to the contrary.


Now if you want to talk about Bud Hopkins, Dr. Roger K. Leir, Deborah Lindemann, C.H.T. or any of the other professionals dedicated to supporting the abductees and experiencers while advancing both science and society I'll be happy to do that.

Are any of them NOT using or referring to any form of hypnosis?

Valnorran
February 23rd, 2006, 10:17 AM
All right. Here's what I don't get. How is it that a species that has mastered interstellar travel has medical technology about on par with (or even inferior to) our own? Why do they need to disect somebody to see what's inside? Don't they have MRI, ultrasound, or even a crummy x-ray machine? Why are they so bad at blanking our memories? A simple dose of chloroform properly applied will pretty much guarantee the patient won't remember a damn thing, hypnosis or no hypnosis. We've alreay got the technology to install a tracking or ID device in the body through a simple injection, yet these technologically superior beings have to use major surgery to do the same? Yet their devices are cunning enough to evade all forms of detection?

Valnorran
February 23rd, 2006, 10:19 AM
There is a reason I picked fairies and elves. Look at the different myths about little people, these myths are all over the world. There is a lot in common with the stories about aliens.
Skeptics have also mentioned this. There are three possibilities: either we are now mistaking elves and fairies for aliens, we were mistaking aliens for elves and fairies, or it's all in our heads.

Derestanne
February 23rd, 2006, 10:44 AM
I think it is time for me to wrap this up and move on. To me, this Forum is never about winning or loosing arguments. I didn't start this to see how many people I could influence or change their thinking or their beliefs. But in doing this Thread, I have learned some things of value for myself that I find depressing and disturbing, to say the least.


I am kind of surprised that on a forum where people talk freely of faires, elves, dragons and all sorts of other creatures, aliens are taboo and somehow make the poster or her friend crazy. There is a reason I picked fairies and elves. Look at the different myths about little people, these myths are all over the world. There is a lot in common with the stories about aliens.

Thank you very much, eldora_avalon. Isn't it amazing, even shocking that so few of us can see and appreciate this?

I have dedicated so much of my own life to supporting the "underdogs" of the World. I have known and comforted Pagan's who were so hurt by the rejection of their families and society that they had became alcoholics.

So what will become of the Starseeds, Alien Abductees and Contactees? Must they also suffer the same rejection, ridicule and prejudice faced by all minorities - gay's, people of color and pagans?

If what I've mostly seen here is any indication, the Alien Experiencers can expect to get kicked to the curb by most of the Pagan Community!

Rather than Pagans applying their experience as a persecuted spiritual underground as a call to value inclusiveness, acceptance, tolerance and diversity, I get the feeling that increasing numbers of pagans are bitter and angry over their plight, and are becoming increasingly entrenched and militant.
Indeed, some the attitudes I've seen on this Forum over the past several months smack of the Pagan equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.

All of this makes me question who I personally should be supporting at this time and why. Should I continue to support causes that would only turn around and disserve others in genuine need?

Just because someone has an experience that doesn't fit neatly into a pre-labeled box, do we blow them off as mentally ill? If someone encounters an Alien, does that automatically make their blood green instead of red? And even if their blood does test positive for "green" are they the "children of a lesser God"?

I rest my case, and may we all find our way back to the True Heart of the Divine.

Valnorran
February 23rd, 2006, 11:16 AM
Thank you very much, eldora_avalon. Isn't it amazing, even shocking that so few of us can see and appreciate this?
What's so amazing and shocking? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Your claims are pretty extraordinary. Show me some tangible evidence and I'd be willing to listen.

I have dedicated so much of my own life to supporting the "underdogs" of the World.
Being an underdog does not automatically make one right.

So what will become of the Starseeds, Alien Abductees and Contactees? Must they also suffer the same rejection, ridicule and prejudice faced by all minorities - gay's, people of color and pagans?
Claims made by abductees are much more extreme than claims made by gays, people of color, and pagans. Gays have demonstrated their love of members of the same sex. People of color quite obviously have differing skin color. Pagans, like anyone else, are free to believe whatever they want. Abductees have produced nothing solid to back up their claims. It has been thoroughly and repeatedly demonstrated how easily false memories can be manufactured in someone under hypnosis, so alleged recovered memories are worthless as evidence.

If what I've mostly seen here is any indication, the Alien Experiencers can expect to get kicked to the curb by most of the Pagan Community!
Not if they have some evidence to back up their claims. People can claim to be the physical embodiment of a particular diety, too, but I'm not going to believe them without some damn good supporting evidence.

Indeed, some the attitudes I've seen on this Forum over the past several months smack of the Pagan equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.
Such as? I've been here a long time and I haven't seen this.

Just because someone has an experience that doesn't fit neatly into a pre-labeled box, do we blow them off as mentally ill? If someone encounters an Alien, does that automatically make their blood green instead of red? And even if their blood does test positive for "green" are they the "children of a lesser God"?
When someone makes such a claim, I apply Hume's Maxim: which is more likely - that this person has actually been abducted by aliens, or that this person either has psychological problems or is lying? I would say the latter two are far more likely explanations. If they can produce some compelling evidence for alien abduction, I'm all ears, but memories "recovered" under hypnosis are not my idea of compelling evidence. Popping out one of those devices the aliens installed in them would be. When perfectly reasonable questions get only emotional responses, I think that's a good indicator that the one being questioned has a very shakey case and he/she knows it.

I rest my case,
With all due respect, you never made it. It is exceedingly unrealistic to make such extraordinary claims and expect people to just take your word for it.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Trithemius
February 23rd, 2006, 11:40 AM
If what I've mostly seen here is any indication, the Alien Experiencers can expect to get kicked to the curb by most of the Pagan Community!

Rather than Pagans applying their experience as a persecuted spiritual underground as a call to value inclusiveness, acceptance, tolerance and diversity, I get the feeling that increasing numbers of pagans are bitter and angry over their plight, and are becoming increasingly entrenched and militant.
Indeed, some the attitudes I've seen on this Forum over the past several months smack of the Pagan equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.

Not accepting someone's claims of the paranormal at face value, with no supporting evidence is hardly equivalent to lynchings and hate-mongering.

wolf
February 23rd, 2006, 12:32 PM
Taking your toys and going home? (Leaving a lot of unaddressed questions)

Oh well. Off to another thread.

eldora_avalon
February 23rd, 2006, 04:06 PM
Skeptics have also mentioned this. There are three possibilities: either we are now mistaking elves and fairies for aliens, we were mistaking aliens for elves and fairies, or it's all in our heads.
Or it is something we don't understand yet. There are a lot of cultures that have some version of Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti or something else. A lot of people thought it was complete nonsense. Most people thought so before fossils of Australopithecus Giganticus were found. Some people still do. The fossils don't prove that these creatures still exist, but it looks like some of them did at one point.

There are a lot of things that can't be explained. There are a lot of options that haven't been explored for what could be going on with 'Jane'. It could be a brain tumor. She could be having such vivid dreams that they seem real. She had the alien story before she was hypnotised, remember? There are still a lot of things about the brain we do not know. She could be having a parietal lobe seizure that is not manifesting itself in the typical way we expect, but is causing her to hallucinate. She doesn't sound crazy, but she does sound stressed. It sounds like she believes what she says, it doesn't sound like she is lying.

Freud either didn't believe, or didn't think the world was ready for, incest vistims. Now they are called survivors and they are believed. We seem to think we have come so far that we understand everything. I am not saying aliens are visiting this woman, but I am saying that something is going on with her. To assume she is crazy and needs meds is being insensitive at least and downright cruel quite possibly.

Valnorran
February 23rd, 2006, 05:27 PM
Or it is something we don't understand yet. There are a lot of cultures that have some version of Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti or something else. A lot of people thought it was complete nonsense. Most people thought so before fossils of Australopithecus Giganticus were found. Some people still do. The fossils don't prove that these creatures still exist, but it looks like some of them did at one point.
Right. But one huge difference between that and the alien abduction phenomenon is that there is some physical evidence for the former. Granted, there isn't much, but that's still more than the abductees have produced. Bigfoot sightings are often accompanied by footprints. Maybe the prints are faked, but they at least rule out the possibility of a dream or hallucination. They at least prove something was actually there.

There are a lot of things that can't be explained.
I agree that science has it's limitations and can't explain everything. But it can still cover quite a bit. I don't think wanting some physical evidence is being unreasonable. I think expecting people to believe such a story without any whatsoever is being very unreasonable. Having an open mind doesn't mean blindly accepting everything you hear.

There are a lot of options that haven't been explored for what could be going on with 'Jane'. It could be a brain tumor. She could be having such vivid dreams that they seem real. She had the alien story before she was hypnotised, remember? There are still a lot of things about the brain we do not know. She could be having a parietal lobe seizure that is not manifesting itself in the typical way we expect, but is causing her to hallucinate. She doesn't sound crazy, but she does sound stressed. It sounds like she believes what she says, it doesn't sound like she is lying.
Just because people don't sound crazy doesn't mean there aren't crazy. Just because she believes what she's saying doesn't mean she's right. And if she's suffering from those things you mentioned, she needs medical help, not people enabling her to persist in her mistaken perceptions.

Freud either didn't believe, or didn't think the world was ready for, incest vistims. Now they are called survivors and they are believed.
Sometimes. And sometimes they're the victims of false memories, too. Just like alien abductees.

We seem to think we have come so far that we understand everything.
I'm not sure who you mean by "we." There are plenty of things I don't understand, starting with algebra. But I need something a bit more solid before I accept alien visitation as a real event rather than a hypothetical possibility. Maybe they really are visitng us. But if 2 million people are being contacted every year (someone, I believe it was Derestanne, provided that figure earlier) I'd expect some good physical evidence. The fact that there isn't any tells me that in all likelihood this phenomenon originates not from the stars but from ourselves.

but I am saying that something is going on with her.
I agree. The quesion is - what? I think psychological issues or brain malfunctions are far more liklely explanations than alien visitation. If I'm wrong I'll sit down to a big ol' heapin' helpin' of crow.

To assume she is crazy and needs meds is being insensitive at least and downright cruel quite possibly.
Well, I think I avoided using the term "crazy" in an attempt to avoid being insensitive. And it's not so much I assume the problem is psychological as I pick that explanation as the most likely. However, if she has psychological problems (or a brain tumor, as you mentioned) meds are probably going to be a much bigger help than prolonging her delusion by enabling it and helping her on her way down the wrong road.

However, my point in my last post was simply that the claim being made is pretty far off the charts. Asking me to believe something of that scale just on someone's say-so isn't going to cut it with me. Nor, I strongly suspect, will it work with most others. This is why I'm no longer a Christian. I just can't make myself believe a dead man got up and walked away simply because some guys writing years after the event aid so.

eldora_avalon
February 23rd, 2006, 05:46 PM
A person doesn't have to believe a story to believe a person is upset and offer support. That is how this thread started.

Freud didn't believe any of his patients were victims of incest. None of them. He insisted they imagined that their fantasies about daddy were real. Since he used hypnosis, he more than likely implanted false memories that these women were not abused when they actually were. Less than a hundred years later, we had people talking about it on Oprah. Freud broke ground in a lot of areas, but I personally feel he dropped tha ball on that.

I am not saying that anyone is getting abducted by aliens. I am not saying that they aren't. I am saying that whatever is going on with these people is something that is not understood by people that are not going through it. Not everyone gets hypnotised, so we can't blame it all on false memories getting implanted. Some of it has been replicated in the lab, which means some of the people may be having seizures. But not all of it. It is another case of being able to explain some of it away, but not all of it.

Acid09
February 23rd, 2006, 06:12 PM
HIV doesn't care who it infects - stupid, ignorant, brilliant, saintly, innocent, guilty. It could even infect YOU.
Nor does the common cold. All the plagues of the world hold no compassion or discrimmination, so long as the host a virus infects can't fight it off.

It could even infect YOU. And how about explaining what you mean by "weak genes"?

Well unfortunately not being a geneticist I could only give you my idea. Being that we are a species who hav thrived off intellect I'd say the genes promoting intellect are at the top. Then the genes the promote physical fortitude are next. Now I'm not about to describe a singular human being who has *the* superior physique, that would boarder racisim. In my opinion genes that promote strong physical form would be based on the enviroment each human lives in, not one race is better than the other. Each race seems suited to live in the area of the world they do. If you look at people who live in the Andes they've developed into stockier more compact people. Which makes sense. A smaller, stouter form with a greater lung capacity is what one would need to survive in the climates they do. On the other hand it would seem people with darker skin color have more tollerance to solar exposure than others. Great for desert dwellers the exception being Arabs and Persians who's intellect developed other means to hide from solar exposure. But I don't have the knowledge to really say for certain if this would effect cancer rates or not between races. Its interesting to note that arabs have adapted to their environment using something else - technology. The people with the stronger genes produce, or have the capacity to produce greater technology as well as reason and rationale. This is important because technology allows a bridge between genomes. The only reason America exists is because its central authority has the capacity to maintain it. Which would seem the lesser genes are infiltrating the masses as they are allowing the misuse of governance by those in power.

Intellect seems to be universal. It doesn't matter where you live and how your ancestors evolved if your genes don't promote intellegence you're in trouble and in my opinion of the inferior model, now this is universal to genetic only and not socio-eco-political status nonsense. Thats why I think the people who've contracted aids, as cruel as this may sound to some, don't carry the stronger genes for intellect, at least not in our society. Had they have the genes for it they would not have been reckless or ignorant (provided they had a choice) to contract aids. This doesn't mean people who have the stronger genes can't get Aids because they're smarter - people in africa are poor and uneducated, not stupid. Though my uncle ruthlessly contends that people of third world countries do have the weaker genes. If they didn't they wouldn't be poor and in the situations they are. But thats just his uber-scientific, western influenced, thinking. I think its more reasonable to assume their intellect is being supressed by environmental factors, not genes. Had they the resources to produce the empires and nations that are considered "great" they'd be no more inferior than ourselves.

In reallity if our genes were being manipulated by some force capable of doing so without our knowledge they could be tayloring mulitple races to colonize other worlds. Which would suggest their agend, in part at least, is to spread life. Or more over live with our intellectual capacity. Which might explain the disappearance of various races through out the ages. Perhaps they reached the appex of their genome and were wisked off to live on some other world where their genes would allow them to thrive. Why such a vast intelligence would want to do this is beyond me. But as always I have a theory, crack pot or not its still a theory:
Suppose the greatest life form is actually made from technology. If this would mean digital sentience we, as humans, are creating (more over replicating) the very thing (from another world/dimention) that may have been manipulating our genes. The purpose of evolving differing races is because that would allow this digital life form to develope on a variety of other worlds. This entity just may have the capacity to produce a "utopian" society. The greatest society would live on cyber-space, totally free from physical, organic needs and suffering. Including death possibly. The cyber-eudaimon would sustain it self by using automaton robots. Possibly even humans themselves. But then again this entity my conclude humanity as obsolete and possibly threatening and just exterminate them.

Soo...who said something about death rays? We may need them when terminator takes over the world ;)

Acid09
February 23rd, 2006, 06:33 PM
Naturally, I disagree with you.

So would many other Investigators and Researchers of the Alien Question.

Well Derestanne, I hand you comfy I told you so:

Sorry buddy no offense, but be prepared to jump into a fox hole and start gunning down people who think you're lying or crazy, sensitive or not.
I've realized through my time being on this site that there a lot of "trolls", people more interested in getting off on picking holes in people's claims just to watch them squirm, praying on a site where "atypical" claims are made regularly. And while I do hold my own skepticisms on this and many many other claims made on this site I do sympathize with you and your story and hope it works out for the best.

Valnorran
February 23rd, 2006, 06:51 PM
A person doesn't have to believe a story to believe a person is upset and offer support. That is how this thread started.
And my support was in the form of advice to get this person some medical help.

Little Billy
March 26th, 2006, 12:37 PM
Derestanne could you tell me how you dislodged the implant? I unfortunately need to know this personally. If you have info on who to get in touch with I would appreciate it immensely. I went to a shaman but somehow I want to double check this with another person. Thank you for this information, I just found it today~Beth


Sure it's not a cyst?

Little Billy
March 26th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I have a medical background and would not be asking this without some real concern. Not here for a debate, thanks.

Sorry for trying to help. I won't make that mistake again.

Little Billy
March 26th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Sorry LB didn't mean to sound harsh, just clear. Thanks for trying to help.


Well, let me be clear, then: Please do not speak to me.

LB,
Prefers murky politeness to callous "clarity".

Little Billy
March 26th, 2006, 07:13 PM
My intent in responding to issues and posts is to have a discussion, not to attack anyone. I think to take an issue and turn it into something personal is a choice, and I find it interesting that LB you have so much anger to dole out to complete strangers for very little reason. I am sorry that you have so much anger and hope someday you are healed of this, it is very distructive.


Hmmm...so now I have psychological problems that need to be "healed" because I object to being humiliated?

Right. [ignore]

Lunar Raven
April 5th, 2006, 02:52 AM
I think little billy needs a hug, and maybe even an implant :O!

mayu
April 6th, 2006, 07:38 AM
Origonally posted by Little Billy


On the other hand, if you wanted to distract the kind of people that ask too many questions, you do a half-assed coverup of nothing, and let them find "clues". Then you ruthlessly repress anybody who gets TOO vocal about the clues.

Then you laugh and jam both hands in the till while they run off chasing UFOs.

Little Billy,
Knows that paranoia is impossible, these days.


This has been the most sensible suggestion on this thread so far

C. Iulia Regilia
November 12th, 2010, 11:16 PM
I have dedicated so much of my own life to supporting the "underdogs" of the World. I have known and comforted Pagan's who were so hurt by the rejection of their families and society that they had became alcoholics.

So what will become of the Starseeds, Alien Abductees and Contactees? Must they also suffer the same rejection, ridicule and prejudice faced by all minorities - gay's, people of color and pagans?

I don't think anybody is saying that the lady is crazy, it just seems that you and perhaps her are jumping to the first conclusion you came across. I won't say it's impossible -- heck if you've ever seen Drake's Equation (it's a mathematical model for predicting the number of intelligent civs in the galaxy) -- math says that aliens are almost certain to be out there. I don't think that means that this is what happened to your therapist friend. Personally i think it's better to rule out medical and psychiatric problems before moving on to the more otherworldly things.


If what I've mostly seen here is any indication, the Alien Experiencers can expect to get kicked to the curb by most of the Pagan Community!

Rather than Pagans applying their experience as a persecuted spiritual underground as a call to value inclusiveness, acceptance, tolerance and diversity, I get the feeling that increasing numbers of pagans are bitter and angry over their plight, and are becoming increasingly entrenched and militant.
Indeed, some the attitudes I've seen on this Forum over the past several months smack of the Pagan equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan.

I've hung around KKK types in my checkered past. These guys are nothing like the KKK. (it's a long story and I learned my lesson). But I don't think people are specificly rejecting you or "Jane". I think it's entirely possible she experienced what she says she experienced. I'm just a bit cautious in my declarations of miracles and extraterrestrial explanations because a lot of medical issues can mimic those experiences. And untreated medical problems aren't something to mess around with.

If there's a way to detect the implant, my thought is get it out of her. If not, maybe just live a healthy lifestyle and reduce stress and so on. As I said, this is probably more of a health issue than anything.


All of this makes me question who I personally should be supporting at this time and why. Should I continue to support causes that would only turn around and disserve others in genuine need?

Just because someone has an experience that doesn't fit neatly into a pre-labeled box, do we blow them off as mentally ill? If someone encounters an Alien, does that automatically make their blood green instead of red? And even if their blood does test positive for "green" are they the "children of a lesser God"?

I rest my case, and may we all find our way back to the True Heart of the Divine.

I'm not saying she is mentally ill, but I think that you ought to look into that just to rule it out. I doubt a shizophrenic could be a PT -- it's a pretty hard science discipline and heavy on the communication skills. So mental illness isn't likely. I've never seen an alien -- heard some way out there stories, but never seen it myself. Jane needs help yes, but I'm not sure how we can help your buddy here. I'm not a doctor, I don't know a thing about aliens or implants. I can't help.