Sabbat question

[David19]

I've got a question about the Sabbats, how did the name come about, i know that the holidays are either Celtic or Germanic/Norse, but how come they are called Sabbats, were they called that by the original people who celebrated them or were the holidays called it by Gardner. The only reason i'm asking is because it sounds a like the Jewish Sabbath.

BTW, i hope that made sense :)

Thanks.

[Ben Gruagach]

I believe the word is directly related, if not drawn directly from, the word "sabbath."

The anti-witch types talked about the "witches' sabbat" which was supposed to be an orgiastic perversion of the Christian sabbath, but which I'm not sure ever really existed. In any case, somewhere along the line the word seems to have evolved to "sabbat" prior to Gerald Gardner's time.

[Ben Gruagach]

Oh, and I forgot to add...

Gardner adopted the term to refer to the annual seasonal celebrations because it was a word associated with witchcraft. Why not adopt the words associated with witchcraft (since he did call his system "witchcraft" after all) and change the meaning from the negative one established by the anti-witch and anti-pagan forces who had used it previously?

[raven grimassi]

According to Doreen Valiente (An ABC of Witchcraft) the origin of sabbat may come from the Dionysic rites in which Dionysos was also known as Sabadius or Sabazius. The celebrants of his mystery tradition cried out "Sabai" or Evoi Sabai" during their rituals, and such gatherings my have therefore come to be known as the time of the sabai, which possibly became pronounced as "sabbat" over the course of time. It's one theory.

[Gede]

Khairete & Blessings~
Correct me if I am wrong, but I have always thought that the reasoning behind associating a Witch's festival with the term "Sabbath" was that it reinforced the evil stereotype that the anti-Semitic west held for the Jews. During the Middle Ages through to the Inquisition and up to the mid 20th century (Hitler and the Nazis) the Jewish people bore the brunt of much hatred and slander acting as the scapegoats. Many myths reported of Jews during those times were almost identical to those that Witches were accused of - diabolism, infanticide, sorcery, etc.

According to Gillian Tindall (A Handbook of Witches) the Jewish word "Shabat" derived from "sheba" meaning seven, which fits in with the weekly cycle of he Sabbath. I have also heard that the term comes from the Greek "sabatu" meaning to rest. Then again we have the "esbattre" (to frolic) and Sabazius, a Thracian God akin to Dionysos. For the ecclesiastical courts to refer to a Witch's meeting or festival as a Sabbat(h) may have reinforced the theory of blasphemus parody, which according to several sources was the goal of the devil-worshipping Witches.

Namaste, Gede...

[David19]

Khairete & Blessings~
Correct me if I am wrong, but I have always thought that the reasoning behind associating a Witch's festival with the term "Sabbath" was that it reinforced the evil stereotype that the anti-Semitic west held for the Jews. During the Middle Ages through to the Inquisition and up to the mid 20th century (Hitler and the Nazis) the Jewish people bore the brunt of much hatred and slander acting as the scapegoats. Many myths reported of Jews during those times were almost identical to those that Witches were accused of - diabolism, infanticide, sorcery, etc.

According to Gillian Tindall (A Handbook of Witches) the Jewish word "Shabat" derived from "sheba" meaning seven, which fits in with the weekly cycle of he Sabbath. I have also heard that the term comes from the Greek "sabatu" meaning to rest. Then again we have the "esbattre" (to frolic) and Sabazius, a Thracian God akin to Dionysos. For the ecclesiastical courts to refer to a Witch's meeting or festival as a Sabbat(h) may have reinforced the theory of blasphemus parody, which according to several sources was the goal of the devil-worshipping Witches.

Namaste, Gede...


That's what i thought. I thought that the accusations about witches flying to the sabbath was anti-Semetic language since they thought that Jews were devil worshippers or 'children of the devil' and so they thought that witches were in league with the Jews, that or they thought the witches were Jews (which sounds more likely as i think there were a lot of Jews killed in the 'burning times').

[Ben Gruagach]

The problem with that is that Christians have also used the word "sabbath" to refer to their holy day of rest -- the seventh day of the week (usually Sunday although it does vary depending on the Christian sect.)

It is true though that antisemitic types would often demonize the Jewish population by spreading horror stories about what a Jewish sabbath was supposedly like. It's not really a coincidence that the accusations were the same as those leveled against witches, Pagans, and other so-called heretics.

So the thing is that the negative connotation has not really been with the word "sabbath" as much as the modifier added to it -- "witches' sabbath" or "jewish sabbath" or whatever.

[Dawa Lhamo]

According to Doreen Valiente (An ABC of Witchcraft) the origin of sabbat may come from the Dionysic rites in which Dionysos was also known as Sabadius or Sabazius. The celebrants of his mystery tradition cried out "Sabai" or Evoi Sabai" during their rituals, and such gatherings my have therefore come to be known as the time of the sabai, which possibly became pronounced as "sabbat" over the course of time. It's one theory.I vote conflation. ^_^ Someone heard sabai and thought it sounded like sabbath, thus the "sabbat" was born. ^_^

Honestly, I have no idea. I've always assumed it's a mutation of sabbath. ^_^

I wouldn't think it would be anti-semitic, though. Because Christians use "sabbath"... It's not as common anymore, at least in America, where people say "Church on Sunday"... but that's only recently. Assuming sabbat is from sabbath, it would have come about at a time where Sabbath was THE word for Sunday church. Heck, people were persecuted for NOT observing the Sabbath. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Gede]

Khairete & Blessings~
According to Gillian Tindall (A Handbook of Witches) the Jewish word "Shabat" derived from "sheba" meaning seven, which fits in with the weekly cycle of he Sabbath.

Going to correct myself here...

I live in a share-house with a Jewish canter who is very familiar with the Hebrew language (of course :lol:) and when I put forth this derivation to him, he told me that it was incorrect, because the suffixes (vowel soundings) of sheba and shabat are inconsistent, and therefore shabat descending from sheba is not true.

Namaste, Gede...