The Devil and witchcraft

[David19]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this or if it should be in the history thread but i have a question. On this site Crooked Heath (http://www.thecrookedheath.com/devilnf.htm), it says that the Devil isn't Satan and is actually The Devil of Europe is nothing more than the Goaty and Horned All-Father, and on various other places it mentions things about the devil, i was just wondering, did 'old' witches (or do they still) worship a god known as the devil or 'Old one' and if they do/did, what god is it, since i can't think of any goat type deities of Northern Europe (the only one i thought of was Pan, but isn't he a more Greek deitiy). Also are the devil and satan seperate beings (i'm not an expert on the bible so i don't know). I always thought satan was based on Azazel (a Hebrew god/spirit, enemy of Yahweh), not a 'pagan' god.

Anyway, hope to hear your thoughts (& if anyone does call their deity the devil) as i'm a bit confused about it (normally lots of pagans make a lot of efforts to get away from satan or the devil)

Thanks.

[Nacken]

If there were pagan covens in the middle ages, for instance, I think that theuy wouldn't have worshipped the devil There have been satanists in the past however. In the 1700s there were some groups in which defrocked RC priests recited the mass backwards and such. But they were rebelling against Christianity within a Christian framework. Pagans don't work within the Christian framework. The devil doesn't exist as far as we are concerned. Worshipping the devil wouldn't make sense.
But I am sure that there was a period of transition. Christian authorities stole pagan celebrations for instance as part of this. Originally, Satan was symbolized as a snake and it was only later that it was pictured as a goat-footed horned figure. Pagan writers have speculated that this was an attempt to demonize the horned god. There are more horned gods than Pan though. Cernunnos, and Herne come to mind. Cernunnos was originally from Gaul and Herne is British. I imagine that each area had slightly different versions of deities and pantheons, but most of them are unknown to us today. We only know Cernunnos because of the ingraving at the base of a statue in Gaul for example.
Satan or Shatan is 'the enemy' in Judaism. I'm not sure about where the devil came from originally. I was raised by bible thumpers but it has been awhile since I've picked one up.

[Aidron]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this or if it should be in the history thread but i have a question. On this site Crooked Heath (http://www.thecrookedheath.com/devilnf.htm), it says that the Devil isn't Satan and is actually , and on various other places it mentions things about the devil, i was just wondering, did 'old' witches (or do they still) worship a god known as the devil or 'Old one' and if they do/did, what god is it, since i can't think of any goat type deities of Northern Europe (the only one i thought of was Pan, but isn't he a more Greek deitiy). Also are the devil and satan seperate beings (i'm not an expert on the bible so i don't know). I always thought satan was based on Azazel (a Hebrew god/spirit, enemy of Yahweh), not a 'pagan' god.

Anyway, hope to hear your thoughts (& if anyone does call their deity the devil) as i'm a bit confused about it (normally lots of pagans make a lot of efforts to get away from satan or the devil)

Thanks.

There is no horned all-father, except in Wicca. There are horned deities, yes, Pan, for example, but none to my knowledge have ever been viewed in an all-father light.

Devil relates to advesary, so I'm sure there are some who worship or view their deity or deities are devils in that they are advesaries of certain things (not the worshipers though), like stupidity, conformity, etc.

But the Devil as the Christians define it is a Christian concept and while I'm sure there are Witches who are devil worshipers they have to admit they are working within a Christian set of beliefs, not a Pagan one. There is nothing wrong with that, I'm just pointing it out.

[SageofThyme]

If you read the Old testament you will see a difference in Satan, the devil and lucifer (who appear to be the same person in the new testament).

Although its a christian book it will give you a better indication of the devil in witchcraft.

However some witches the devil simple is our own mind, just as original sin is unique to each person

[AlleyCat]

As Aidron said, there are a few horned deities, Pan and Cerunnous being good examples, but the "father" god to Pan would be Zeus wouldnt it? Im sure Pan is Greek, well I was sure until I typed it, now Im doubting myself, think its time for a Nanna-nap

[omar]

Satan means advisarey of God, Lucifer means bringer of light, the devel was just a little imp.

[The Pictish Druid]

i was just wondering, did 'old' witches (or do they still) worship a god known as the devil or 'Old one' and if they do/did, what god is it, since i can't think of any goat type deities of Northern Europe (the only one i thought of was Pan, but isn't he a more Greek deitiy).


Cernunnos is the northern European version of the horned god. He appeared not only in Gaul but on a cauldron dug up in a peat bog at Gundestrup in Jutland, Denmark.

[Windsmith]

I always find it interesting when people state categorically that Pagans "don't believe in Satan." I'm sure that many, especially hard-polytheistic Pagans, do believe in him, and may even worship/be in relationship with him as one more Divine figure from one more pantheon. I certainly think of the devil and Satan as 2 separate beings. Look at Satan in the Old Testament - especially in the beginning of the Book of Job. He's called HaSatan - The Adversary - and his function seems to be arguing with Yahweh, causing trouble, picking holes in Yahweh's plans...basically, he's the trickster of the mythology.

I was going to say more here about whether the devil is really the horned god, but I'm reading Ronald Hutton's Triumph of the Moon, so I have no idea what I believe anymore, historically speaking. The conflation of Pan with the devil may be nothing more than a Victorian interpretation of what they believed to be "ancient pagan beliefs," and their way of explaining the "witch trials" of the Middle Ages.

[Rae ShadowWolf]

As others have said, the devil is different than Satan. One theory on the devil, is that the devil is the head/main demon and that's the only difference between devils and demons (its a heirarchy).

[omar]

Satan is a generic term,not a specific being. The Bibles calls any being that is an advisary of God, Satan. Kinda like calling spegetti, noodles & maccaroni, PASTA. haha

[Windsmith]

Satan is a generic term,not a specific being. The Bibles calls any being that is an advisary of God, Satan. Kinda like calling spegetti, noodles & maccaroni, PASTA. hahaTrue, but it was my understanding, back when I was a dutiful young Classics minor translating the Book of Job, that the designation hasatan specifically meant that this guy was kind of the most adversarial of adversaries. All other satans were just adversaries, but this one was The Adversary.